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While I logged a few hours on cleanup, this article still needs much work. I have only a rudimentary knowledge of German, and I would prefer not to guess at the meaning of what I assume are literally-translated figures of speech for fear of changing the intended content. Examples:
I will continue to clean up this article; please post if similarly disposed. -- Mythman87 20:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I have gone through the first several sections and made a number of changes to the flow of the text, without attempting any gross restructuring. This article still needs work from the 1990s on, and I do not have time at the moment. I think it could also do with some high-level editing: it seems to be more of a history of the usage of the word "Stadtbahn", and requires a good bit of scanning to find out what the Stadtbahn currently *is*.
Regarding Mythman87's comments: I think that "overcome systems" has a fairly obvious English meaning as well, and I have put the slightly more idiomatic version in place. I am not clear what "partially even moddish" is intended to mean, literally, but it appears to be an indication that it is a term of fashion, rather than a formal definition. Said connation has been edited in.
I intend to do a bit more work on this article when I have more time.
-- Kaosfere 21:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Made a number of spelling and grammar changes.
Biggest change was with "signet" to "logo". I think this is the best translation. Perhaps I could have used "emblem", but as it is used as an advertising and marketing symbol, I felt logo fit better. In American English, signet does mean about the same thing, but is very rarely used, and would not usually be used in a marketing or advertising context. If you can find a better word, or feel that maintaining the original article translation closely is more important, feel free to change it.
I will check back sometime later for another pass and see what things I have missed. Atom 02:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
A very good and illustrative source for this complex history/eveolution of the Stadtbahn term can be find here, written in German:
The magazine's target group are tramway amtauers and it is written in a very precise way, so that the evidence should come out clear, but the reader should be capable oft more than a basic language lavel. The current version of this Wikipedia lemma is derrived from the article, mainly through updates. Scientific descriptive-normativ approaches can be found in:
Whoever is interested enough might check the lemma against this sources. Me, I haven't enough time, but so far the article is already very correct in ways of approaching to what the Stadtbahn term means, is used to and is (not) percepted and so on. -- 141.30.207.240 ( talk) 16:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
The 1980s section of this article (and possibly the 1990s and 2000s sections, as well) should probably be rewritten - I've added some 'tags' to that section to indicate my concerns.
But if the term "Stadtbahn" is most analogous to the North American term "light rail", then the criteria that most differentiates "Stadtbahn"/"light rail" from "Straßenbahn"/"streetcar"/"tram" is operating in exclusive rights-of-way for the former and street-running (in car traffic) for the latter. This may or may not involve tunnels or elevated sections, but certainly doesn't require either.
The way the 1980s section of the article is written, though, is written from a point-of-view that a lack of tunnels and/or elevated sections means "no Stadtbahn" and "same as streetcar/Straßenbahn". That is clearly not the case - as long as the vast majority of the system is in exclusive rights-of-way, then it qualifies as "light rail", and thus as "Stadtbahn". It almost seems as the author of that section was confusing "Premetro" (as the French use the term) and "Stadtbahn".
I suggest that section be rewritten. If no one does it in the near future, I may give it a shot when I get the chance (which likely won't be soon...). -- IJBall ( talk) 03:10, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
The lead section currently cites two references, from the early 1970s, that speak about German systems, say they are called "light rail" or "premetro" -- but do not explicitly use the term "Stadtbahn". Even if we think the authors of those news reports were talking about German Stadtbahn systems, I think this sails close to a lapse from WP:SYNTH, and so I placed a {{ failed verification}} tag. Geo Swan ( talk) 16:34, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
But West Germany, like other nations, experienced a phenomenal growth in private car ownership. Traffic congestion led to plans for underground railways. But instead of building the entire expensive systems immediately, the Germans hit on the idea of building only the city centre tunnels at first. Intended in the long run to be extended to full undergrounds, in the short term they could be used by trams which would continue to run on the surface outside city centres. The idea spread to other European countries, notably Belgium, where it became know as pre-metro. Today Brussels, Frankfurt, Stuttgart and many other cities are filling their central business districts with construction sites to move the trains underground.
Cities such as Frankfurt and Cologne in West Germany have further developed their tramway system by introducing a concept known as "premetro." In this system trams or light rail vehicles make extensive use of tunnels, reserve track and by utilizing folding steps these vehicles can operate through high or low stopping places.
I just read the lead section and didn't understand anything about what the Stadtbahn actually is. It says that "A Staddtbahn are[sic] types of rail transport". Then it talks about some history. In fact, I wasn't able to find this information in the entire article, not just the lead. Is it possible to add a summary that describes the concept to the lead section, especially for readers not familiar with German railway terminology? (just some feedback, I'll gladly help but I don't know much about the topic). Thanks, Ynhockey ( Talk) 10:12, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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While I logged a few hours on cleanup, this article still needs much work. I have only a rudimentary knowledge of German, and I would prefer not to guess at the meaning of what I assume are literally-translated figures of speech for fear of changing the intended content. Examples:
I will continue to clean up this article; please post if similarly disposed. -- Mythman87 20:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I have gone through the first several sections and made a number of changes to the flow of the text, without attempting any gross restructuring. This article still needs work from the 1990s on, and I do not have time at the moment. I think it could also do with some high-level editing: it seems to be more of a history of the usage of the word "Stadtbahn", and requires a good bit of scanning to find out what the Stadtbahn currently *is*.
Regarding Mythman87's comments: I think that "overcome systems" has a fairly obvious English meaning as well, and I have put the slightly more idiomatic version in place. I am not clear what "partially even moddish" is intended to mean, literally, but it appears to be an indication that it is a term of fashion, rather than a formal definition. Said connation has been edited in.
I intend to do a bit more work on this article when I have more time.
-- Kaosfere 21:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Made a number of spelling and grammar changes.
Biggest change was with "signet" to "logo". I think this is the best translation. Perhaps I could have used "emblem", but as it is used as an advertising and marketing symbol, I felt logo fit better. In American English, signet does mean about the same thing, but is very rarely used, and would not usually be used in a marketing or advertising context. If you can find a better word, or feel that maintaining the original article translation closely is more important, feel free to change it.
I will check back sometime later for another pass and see what things I have missed. Atom 02:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
A very good and illustrative source for this complex history/eveolution of the Stadtbahn term can be find here, written in German:
The magazine's target group are tramway amtauers and it is written in a very precise way, so that the evidence should come out clear, but the reader should be capable oft more than a basic language lavel. The current version of this Wikipedia lemma is derrived from the article, mainly through updates. Scientific descriptive-normativ approaches can be found in:
Whoever is interested enough might check the lemma against this sources. Me, I haven't enough time, but so far the article is already very correct in ways of approaching to what the Stadtbahn term means, is used to and is (not) percepted and so on. -- 141.30.207.240 ( talk) 16:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
The 1980s section of this article (and possibly the 1990s and 2000s sections, as well) should probably be rewritten - I've added some 'tags' to that section to indicate my concerns.
But if the term "Stadtbahn" is most analogous to the North American term "light rail", then the criteria that most differentiates "Stadtbahn"/"light rail" from "Straßenbahn"/"streetcar"/"tram" is operating in exclusive rights-of-way for the former and street-running (in car traffic) for the latter. This may or may not involve tunnels or elevated sections, but certainly doesn't require either.
The way the 1980s section of the article is written, though, is written from a point-of-view that a lack of tunnels and/or elevated sections means "no Stadtbahn" and "same as streetcar/Straßenbahn". That is clearly not the case - as long as the vast majority of the system is in exclusive rights-of-way, then it qualifies as "light rail", and thus as "Stadtbahn". It almost seems as the author of that section was confusing "Premetro" (as the French use the term) and "Stadtbahn".
I suggest that section be rewritten. If no one does it in the near future, I may give it a shot when I get the chance (which likely won't be soon...). -- IJBall ( talk) 03:10, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
The lead section currently cites two references, from the early 1970s, that speak about German systems, say they are called "light rail" or "premetro" -- but do not explicitly use the term "Stadtbahn". Even if we think the authors of those news reports were talking about German Stadtbahn systems, I think this sails close to a lapse from WP:SYNTH, and so I placed a {{ failed verification}} tag. Geo Swan ( talk) 16:34, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
But West Germany, like other nations, experienced a phenomenal growth in private car ownership. Traffic congestion led to plans for underground railways. But instead of building the entire expensive systems immediately, the Germans hit on the idea of building only the city centre tunnels at first. Intended in the long run to be extended to full undergrounds, in the short term they could be used by trams which would continue to run on the surface outside city centres. The idea spread to other European countries, notably Belgium, where it became know as pre-metro. Today Brussels, Frankfurt, Stuttgart and many other cities are filling their central business districts with construction sites to move the trains underground.
Cities such as Frankfurt and Cologne in West Germany have further developed their tramway system by introducing a concept known as "premetro." In this system trams or light rail vehicles make extensive use of tunnels, reserve track and by utilizing folding steps these vehicles can operate through high or low stopping places.
I just read the lead section and didn't understand anything about what the Stadtbahn actually is. It says that "A Staddtbahn are[sic] types of rail transport". Then it talks about some history. In fact, I wasn't able to find this information in the entire article, not just the lead. Is it possible to add a summary that describes the concept to the lead section, especially for readers not familiar with German railway terminology? (just some feedback, I'll gladly help but I don't know much about the topic). Thanks, Ynhockey ( Talk) 10:12, 19 January 2021 (UTC)