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Archive 1 |
Although there is some debate over which is the oldest college at Oxford (Balliol, Merton, and Univ or say they are), there is no debate over what is the oldest academic institution at Oxford or the oldest undergraduate institution in the English-speaking world. It is Teddy Hall.
The colleges were originally purely graduate institutions, and the Medieval Halls were purely undergraduate institutions. This is why the two types of institutions co-existed. The Halls began to disappear after the colleges began accepting undergrads, centuries after Teddy Hall came into being.
Also, Teddy Hall was unquestionably in operation as a Hall before the colleges, a fact that even all three of the colleges above acknowledge when asserting their claim to collegiate seniority. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aularian ( talk • contribs) 00:42, 24 April 2006
I have now obtained through ILL a copy of Emden's (1927) work from which Cowdrey derived his statement. This venerable book also came adorned with an October 1934 newspaper cutting describing the completion of the quad in time for the 700th anniversary and also a signed, hand written note by Emden to a certain Lamborne, apologising for missing and arranged meeting in 'Philistia'. Emden concludes his work on page 236 by stating:
Subtle differences here but it shows that Cowdrey's quote is somewhat paraphrased. I would like to therefore remove the quotation marks from the opening paragraph and reference them through the existing footnote to the exact text recognising Cowdrey's later referral. Now to support the claim of the Hall's seniority in the world of universities requires some additional supporting references. Floreat aula. Hutch 18:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Yet again I have had to revert an incorrect change to the scarf colours. The college's colours are "Claret and Cream", look at your scarf it is not red and yellow. I suggest you look at Shepherd and Woodward's site if you require confirmation. Granted a lot of the Hall's sporting gear is red and yellow but that's largely because it's much easier/cheaper to produce. Never the less it is still incorrect. I don't know why some people are so keen on continually changing it. AulaTPN 22:57, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that looks much, much closer. Let's use this for the scarf. However, I still think that as far as the college colour section goes, we should decide which of the three versions to give weight (I'd still say gold is the second colour, particularly as it's the colour on the crest). As for the sports kit, as a rower (a cox) I can confirm the prevalence of dark red-bright yellow on current versions : ). -- AVIosad( talk) 20:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Aula, I think that your photograph may have an overly blue cast to it which is knocking back the yellowness of your stripes. There are background parts to your photo which look distinctly blue and which I suspect are actually white. A little experiment in PhotoStudio 5.0 to ‘correct’ this hue created stripes very similar in colour to mine. Could I suggest you try scanning the scarf as I did to mine and see if the resultant image is noticeably different. Best regards Hutch 12:55, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I have created a quick Userbox template and associated categories so that Aularian Wikipedians can add this to their user pages. Use template: {{ User:AulaTPN/User Aularian}}. AulaTPN 20:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Another user added St Edmund to the list of notable former students. Now I'm going to display a shocking lack of knowledge by asking - we know he was a Master but was he ever actually a student at the Hall? I've not heard anything to that effect, ever so I have removed the link. I'll check the books by Paris & Emden and come back to this. In the mean time, if you can provide a concrete reference attesting to this then please feel free to revert my edit and add the reference. AulaTPN 00:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Right, in an effort to start classifying the articles in the project I've assigned a preliminary rating of B and a Top importance, here's why. Arguably, the collegiate system is one of the most fundamental parts of the distinctive oxford experience and so I would like to make the case that no encyclopaedic entry would be complete without detailing the various colleges and permanent private halls. With that in mind I would also like to nominate all college/pph entries as being of Top importance to the project. As far as standard goes, I think the article as is provides an excellent summary of the college history and purpose within the context of the university. I don't think we can improve the article without a much more detailed history and better quality images. That being said, if anyone deems different classifications more appropriate then please go ahead. AulaTPN 13:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
How does one explain why St Edmund took so long in changing from a Hall into a College. What was so special about the 1950s? Tibetologist ( talk) 19:50, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
The new coat of arms and blazon have been added in line with the others added to all the other colleges and PPHs as discussed on the university project page. It seems however that the blazon described in the article itself is erroneous and not the same as can be found in the university caldendar. Since the assumption the project is making is the official calendar holds the correct version, I'll edit the article to reflect this blazon unless someone can provide solid evidence to the contrary. The coat of arms is correct by the calendar blazon, though an older version of the same file is correct by the disputed articles blazon. ChevronTango ( talk) 23:11, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
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Firstly, Teddy Hall was "established" and not "founded" in the 13th century. Halls were never "founded", which in Oxford explicitly means set up with statutes as an endowment, something only Colleges had. Secondly, there is already a line in the very next paragraph talking about it becoming a college in 1957. This does not need to be repeated in the establishment paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.164.221 ( talk • contribs) 04:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
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thought I should point out that the link to William Taylor doesn't actually go to the right william taylor!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.227.38 ( talk • contribs) 19:32, 18 February 2004 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Although there is some debate over which is the oldest college at Oxford (Balliol, Merton, and Univ or say they are), there is no debate over what is the oldest academic institution at Oxford or the oldest undergraduate institution in the English-speaking world. It is Teddy Hall.
The colleges were originally purely graduate institutions, and the Medieval Halls were purely undergraduate institutions. This is why the two types of institutions co-existed. The Halls began to disappear after the colleges began accepting undergrads, centuries after Teddy Hall came into being.
Also, Teddy Hall was unquestionably in operation as a Hall before the colleges, a fact that even all three of the colleges above acknowledge when asserting their claim to collegiate seniority. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aularian ( talk • contribs) 00:42, 24 April 2006
I have now obtained through ILL a copy of Emden's (1927) work from which Cowdrey derived his statement. This venerable book also came adorned with an October 1934 newspaper cutting describing the completion of the quad in time for the 700th anniversary and also a signed, hand written note by Emden to a certain Lamborne, apologising for missing and arranged meeting in 'Philistia'. Emden concludes his work on page 236 by stating:
Subtle differences here but it shows that Cowdrey's quote is somewhat paraphrased. I would like to therefore remove the quotation marks from the opening paragraph and reference them through the existing footnote to the exact text recognising Cowdrey's later referral. Now to support the claim of the Hall's seniority in the world of universities requires some additional supporting references. Floreat aula. Hutch 18:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Yet again I have had to revert an incorrect change to the scarf colours. The college's colours are "Claret and Cream", look at your scarf it is not red and yellow. I suggest you look at Shepherd and Woodward's site if you require confirmation. Granted a lot of the Hall's sporting gear is red and yellow but that's largely because it's much easier/cheaper to produce. Never the less it is still incorrect. I don't know why some people are so keen on continually changing it. AulaTPN 22:57, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that looks much, much closer. Let's use this for the scarf. However, I still think that as far as the college colour section goes, we should decide which of the three versions to give weight (I'd still say gold is the second colour, particularly as it's the colour on the crest). As for the sports kit, as a rower (a cox) I can confirm the prevalence of dark red-bright yellow on current versions : ). -- AVIosad( talk) 20:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Aula, I think that your photograph may have an overly blue cast to it which is knocking back the yellowness of your stripes. There are background parts to your photo which look distinctly blue and which I suspect are actually white. A little experiment in PhotoStudio 5.0 to ‘correct’ this hue created stripes very similar in colour to mine. Could I suggest you try scanning the scarf as I did to mine and see if the resultant image is noticeably different. Best regards Hutch 12:55, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I have created a quick Userbox template and associated categories so that Aularian Wikipedians can add this to their user pages. Use template: {{ User:AulaTPN/User Aularian}}. AulaTPN 20:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Another user added St Edmund to the list of notable former students. Now I'm going to display a shocking lack of knowledge by asking - we know he was a Master but was he ever actually a student at the Hall? I've not heard anything to that effect, ever so I have removed the link. I'll check the books by Paris & Emden and come back to this. In the mean time, if you can provide a concrete reference attesting to this then please feel free to revert my edit and add the reference. AulaTPN 00:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Right, in an effort to start classifying the articles in the project I've assigned a preliminary rating of B and a Top importance, here's why. Arguably, the collegiate system is one of the most fundamental parts of the distinctive oxford experience and so I would like to make the case that no encyclopaedic entry would be complete without detailing the various colleges and permanent private halls. With that in mind I would also like to nominate all college/pph entries as being of Top importance to the project. As far as standard goes, I think the article as is provides an excellent summary of the college history and purpose within the context of the university. I don't think we can improve the article without a much more detailed history and better quality images. That being said, if anyone deems different classifications more appropriate then please go ahead. AulaTPN 13:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
How does one explain why St Edmund took so long in changing from a Hall into a College. What was so special about the 1950s? Tibetologist ( talk) 19:50, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
The new coat of arms and blazon have been added in line with the others added to all the other colleges and PPHs as discussed on the university project page. It seems however that the blazon described in the article itself is erroneous and not the same as can be found in the university caldendar. Since the assumption the project is making is the official calendar holds the correct version, I'll edit the article to reflect this blazon unless someone can provide solid evidence to the contrary. The coat of arms is correct by the calendar blazon, though an older version of the same file is correct by the disputed articles blazon. ChevronTango ( talk) 23:11, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 17:29, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Firstly, Teddy Hall was "established" and not "founded" in the 13th century. Halls were never "founded", which in Oxford explicitly means set up with statutes as an endowment, something only Colleges had. Secondly, there is already a line in the very next paragraph talking about it becoming a college in 1957. This does not need to be repeated in the establishment paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.164.221 ( talk • contribs) 04:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
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thought I should point out that the link to William Taylor doesn't actually go to the right william taylor!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.227.38 ( talk • contribs) 19:32, 18 February 2004 (UTC)