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After doing the research to write the Sri Lankan riots of 1958 article, I have concluded that although the state did not to enough to stop the riots, neither did it instigate them, nor did it engage in retaliatory measures large enough to be considered state terrorism. I am therefore removing that section. The Ethnic conflict in Sri Lanka page still has a summary of those events, as it should. Tyronen 17:33, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I added an entry for this incident, there are more details here http://www.peacebrigades.org/lanka/slp9603.html, now it seems the GoSL did eventually undertake investigation and punished some soldiers, but it seems the commander who possibly ordered the massacre was also not punished, so it is a grey area if this is state terrorism or not.
Also it seems we have a lot of such cases which are not outright state terrorism but certainly human rites violations, so perhaps we need to either redefine this article or come up with a different article similar to 'notable attacks by the LTTE' which is not restricted to just state terrorism.-- Realstarslayer 16:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Please add any further sources or if any of the sources mentioned in the reference can be located would be helpful. Many of them are no longer available on line such as the British Refugee Council newsletters, they only go as far back as 1996 now, or the AP article.-- Realstarslayer 20:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
British Refugee Council Page for the 'Sri Lanka monitor' news letter
hi RaveenS,
I'm not so sure we want to use the term 'massacre' for each and every incident, for one it comes off as a POV and secondly it waters down the meaning of true massacres. I think it would be better to use a term that describes the actuall attack.. such as church/school bombing, Trincomalee students 'shot and killed' or executed, etc. Likewise for the articles being created for each of the main incidents.-- Realstarslayer 04:36, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
P.S. It was also one of the reasons I started the delete request for that 'LTTE Massacres' article too, which was successfuly deleted BTW.
Also there is a category called Category:Massacres_of_the_Lebanese_Civil_War, that was my idea, create a category for all these masscres both attributed to the LTTE and the SL government and a sub section on prison massacres when I am done Bindunuwara and kalutara..... RaveenS 13:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
When adding references to this article, please keep in mind to add the same reference to the main article that it links too. Also follw the format established and list them under Source websites and link them up by [1] Thanks RaveenS
I notice that my additions about several events in the 1990s were removed without warning. This does not seem to me appropriate behavior unless the edits were inaccurate, which they were not. They had citations from a neutral source (Human Rights Watch) and were prominent enough to be discussed in HRW's annual reports (more than once, for some of them.) Please in future do not delete material wholesale without discussing first unless it is clearly inaccurate and/or irrelevant. Tyronen 22:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok I just looked through the history so now I understand what happened. RaveenS I think Tyronen's additions were legitimate and do fall under State terrorism, I think it would have been better not to revert but discuss and change them if needed, in fact it seems I have duplicated one of his additions as well, the Chemmani graves/Somaratne revelations.
Tyronen, though I can understand your frustration at how your changes were handled I don't think deleteing the article helps. What is the alternative then? If something better can come of it then fine, but right now this is the only article on terrorism/human rights violations carried out by the GoSL. If we are going to have a balanced and informative handling of the Sri Lankan conflict we need this article just as much as the Notable attacks by the LTTE one so that both sides of the story are told.
So all I can suggest is to have Tyronen's changes readded and we can discuss each one and tweak as necessary. Regards -- Realstarslayer 04:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree, I did something bold and did not follow protocol because of the timing factor. Have you noticed why it is taking too long to resolve this AFD versus Syria because incidents in Sri Lanka are not notable enough for many admins and they are legitimately not sure of all these incidents. So my fear is unless we prune this (I even removed Kumarapuram because you said the culprits were found and put in jail) it will get deleted. Adding right now is the wrong thing to do, we should develop the criteria, use the vetting process and then add. Plus the users decision to burn the books because edit decisions shows that we really have to be careful in managing emotions on this list or it will be mess like the LTTE article. I have archived this article so even if it is deleted contents of this can be used to create an counter part to Notable attacks by the LTTE article. Thanks13:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
See archived of Tyronens additions Tyronen's additions. I have archived it so that we can discuss ho wif they are to be incorporated. RaveenS 14:54, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I just entered a basic description, but I think this one probably deserves a main article of its own. Also I am not sure what year to put it under, the victims in the grave are thought to be 'disappeared' from 1996, but the graves were discovered in 1998.
-- Realstarslayer 02:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
My point would be that it should have it's own entry anyway even if the merits of it in this list can be debated.
RaveenS
13:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I made some edits at 14:08, 8 August that consisted mostly of reorganization of the text and spelling and grammar fixes. These edits were reverted by an anonymous user. This is the kind of thing that might happen from an edit conflict, but it occurred fully 17 hours after my edit. What on earth is the point of reverting grammar fixes and reintroducing old errors?? I do not know for sure whether this was deliberate or accidental, but either way please be more respectful of others' contributions in future. Tyronen 14:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
(UTC)
It can be a seperate article on its own as we have a pattern of attacks now, starting from the attack on Oxfam during CBK's time to current massacre of a french NGO's workers then that article canbe linked to thsi one RaveenS
In all messacure pointed out in the secton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_attacks_carried_out_by_LTTE on the last part there it says no clear evidene ,who wrirtes these articles , does USA has evidene that Binladen is the mastermind of the 9-11 attack. Come on people terrorist wont accept they are engaging in killings Againt lies
The name of this article is totally biased. None of these cases are proven or acepted by SL athorities. And in the first line of the article it says "ALLEGED" meaning that state terrorism in srilanka is only allegation. Wikipedia doesn't call LTTE, terrorists because it is opinion. In the sameway this article should be named "ALLEGED ATTACKS BY SRILANKAN GOVERNMENT". If no one changes the name I will do it my self. Goodluck coming up with a counter argument. ~suicidebomber~ 21:36 24 Nov 2006 (UTC)
The claims of 5 deaths and 4 in a point blank range could not be verified as the Associated Press article could not be found..I think here we should stick to the BBC article, which clearly says one death and 40 were injured.Also i added {{ Fact}} sign to some remarks,in the cases where neither sources were provided nor sources couldnt verified the claims thanks -- Iwazaki 15:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
About the wsw, no i dont think its neutral,may be even worse than the pro-ltte sites..I have been following their articles for a quite a while, and i cant but think that they are too biased towards so-called tamil problems.Sorry, for me its nothing but a another propaganda machine run by PRO-eelamists,whether they support LTTE or not -- Iwazaki 18:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
please,try to find another source to verify their deaths, because WSW article doesnt carry any weight at all. -- Iwazaki 19:09, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
-- Iwazaki 00:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
-- Iwazaki 09:38, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
OK They burned to the ground certain chosen targets - including the Jaffna Public Library, with its 95,000 volumes and priceless manuscripts, a Hindu temple, the office and machinery of the independent Tamil daily newspaper Eelanadu. Four people were killed outright. No mention of this appeared in the national newspapers, not even the burning of the Library, the symbol of the Tamils' cultural identity. The government delayed bringing in emergency rule until 2 June, by which time key targets had been destroyed.’’ - Nancy Murray, the State against the Tamils in Sri Lanka - Racism and the Authoritarian State - Race & Class , Summer 1984 now Nancy Murray is no Monk hating Eelamist :)) she is Nancy Murray, Director Bill of Rights Education Project in Massachusetts, American Civil Liberties Union(ACLU). Thanks RaveenS 21:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
-- Iwazaki 00:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
The journal article title itself is State against the Tamils in Sri Lanka - Racism and the Authoritarian State - Race & Class , Summer 1984. Now we have atleast 2 instances of references. One the internet article and other journal article. 216.95.23.211 03:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
for starters,here we are discussing "so-called state terrorism".So please get your path correct,before anything. thanks Iwazaki 09:54, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Nancy Murray is an acredited American lawyer and an ACLU activists and has published number books on State violence. She is not a Tamil or Sinhalese. Regarding the burning of the library she wrote state security men instigated by two ministers burned the library and in the process killed 4 people. WSW says 4 people were pulled by the police and killed. Both the versions says 4 people were killed. Hence we have 2 references saying 4 people were killed. This is without going into the books listed as further reading. Which also state the same. I am amenable to change the sentence to say that four people were killed in the process and leave it to the readers to make up their mind. Thanks RaveenS
-- Iwazaki 11:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
This article has been written from a neutral point of view as all possible points have been cited. It went through and AFD and the discussion was non consensus. There are other series of articles on State terrorism such as State terrorism by Syria and State terrorism by the United States of America. All articles went through AFD and survived. The speedy deletion by a newbie shows that he/she is a sockpuppet who wants this point of view hidden. RaveenS 03:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I would like to site the first sentence on the article:
"Activities that can be termed as state terrorism by Sri Lanka have generally been attacks on alleged supporters of the Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna or JVP a Marxist and nationalist political party which unsuccessfully tried twice (in 1971 and 1987-89) to overthrow the democratically elected government of Sri Lanka using a violent rebellion..."
This article goes astray even with the first sentence. In your own words these acts of violence were committed by an revolutionary Political party that did not even have democratic strength to over throw the government in 1971. In fact they have not been able to over throw or take control of the democratic process of Sri Lanka even once to date. Other country's do not list a rebellion as a state terrorist act. It is the opposite of the same. It is a terrorist act against the state, be it any ethnic group.
Also you seem to forget that there are two side of this struggle and that if we go deep into the figures and facts of the terrorism by the LTTE...we will be able to fill a separate Wiki.
You should rename this article as terrorism committed against people of Sri Lanka and give balanced facts and details. Vajira K 14 November 2006
Well just going through the article I can see issues that might want to be addressed going into the future, these issues are probably causes for disagreements with other editors about the usefulness of the article and the providence of the editors etc etc.
Well it could just be me or does the article relate to terrorism very mild? I think it requires alot of background knowledge on the conflict and is thus very shallow. Maybe we should delve into causes for State Terrorism and why certain incidents constitute terrorism?-- Sharz 11:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe some people are in an scheme to point fingers at my homeland. Nirvanatoday 21 May 2007.
I will be creating another article called Assassinations attributed to the Sri Lankan government forces to clean up this article. This is an attempt at assuring that this article ceases to be the point of POV editing regarding these controversial incidents. RaveenS 17:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I reverted the edits you have done to the state terrorism SriLanka article for several reasons..
articles. thanks-- Iwazaki 13:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
without addressing a single issue i have raised here , you have reverted the article back to your POV ... please once again read points I have raised here..
Forensic team have clearly reached a unanimous decision that there are no such graves as originally alleged by the convicted prisoner Somaratne Rajapakse and others convicted of the Krishanthy Kumaraswamy rape and murder case
..And why would you delete that ?? The whole episode is a hoax,just like
this..
And didnt i tell you that the legal process in SL for any case ,is complex and slow ?? Do you expect the GOSL to file charges against ,accused in a week or two ??
And thanks for taking an general interest on my contributions..Yes,as a SriLankan I'm genuinely interested at my country,and having seeing a lot of POV targeted against my country, I decided to spend more time to make things look more neutral..
finally ,no one is whitewashing this..Why would anyone do such a thing, when the whole thing did not exist at all !! doesn't make sense at all,does it ?
Unless you an come up with proofs, that so called 600 plus missing people ended up in the chemmani grave, there is absolutely no point discussing this matter with you.anyway thanks for the interest taken on this issue.--
Iwazaki
03:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Let your edits to decide whether you have a POV or not..I ll judge you by your edits not by your comments here..But so far, you have not justified "your neutrality" here..I will certainly revert it back to mine,since you have removed the comments of the forensic experts,and given impression that only the "GOSL and its military deny graves"..I have asked you several times to bring ,evidence to prove there are mass graves in chemmani, bring the "forensic experts reports".And you have done nothing..Chemmani is a clear cut issue..It did not exist !! -- Iwazaki 03:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
this will do it for now -- Iwazaki 会話。討論 01:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Why on earth some editors trying to generalize these,when these are obviuous random actions by some Army individuals ?? Do these editors have inherent bias towards a certain group ? Iwazaki 会話。討論 02:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
In contrast, there are a vast number of massacres and war crimes in Sri Lanka were the culprits have alledgedly deliberatly not been brought to justice, and thusly this indemnity is tantamount to government sponsored terrorism.
Besides that, statics exist (I think that we all are well aware of them?) that state that Sri Lanka has the second highest amount of disappeared people in the world, according to UN states. A seperate stat, endemic to the Batticola region states that some 86% of this disapperances have been attributed to some form of government force, for a single lone ranger in the Sri Lankan Army or Special Task Force to do this would be impossible, it is systematic. [1]
However in defence of your arguement, there is a differance between state terror and the actions of a lone individual, however, when an entire company is engaged in genocidic behavior, or key witnesses to disappearances at the hand of government forces are killed by government forces, state terror must exist. -- Sharz 07:14, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
There was lots of unused links cited as the refs here. So I did some cleaning jobs and replaced necessary links as inline references. -- ♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ walkie-talkie 10:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
How is Sangam a reliable source? Also how is NESOHR a reliable source? Pubuman 13:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Shouldnt this article at best be titled ALLEGED State Terrorism, considering all the instances displayed are alegations and never been attributed to the Sri Lankan government? Pubuman 15:05, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Hey everybody, hey Thusiyan!
About the picture Image:09_06_06_435.jpg - this is a very interesting story, because the case is the exact parallel and opposite to the quarrel over this picture in the article Sri Lankan Civil War. Whereas over there, pro-Sinhala guys are in favor of keeping the pic whereas pro-Tamil ones want to get rid of it, here it's just the other way round.
Dear people, this is ridiculous. It proves that you are only trying to have these pix included to create a bad image for the respective opponents. Wikpedia shouldn't be a place for your conflicts.
I say: Let's get rid of all the gory pix so that children etc. can read WP articles without getting traumatized. Krankman 09:40, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
PS: You should not remove any {{ cn}} or {{ or}} tags without citing a proper ref to it. -- ♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ walkie-talkie 10:37, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
For the Jaffna Lagoon massacre, please see below.
Regarding the image, the same occurs on the List of terrorist attacks attributed to the LTTE with the Kent Farm massacre. Are you going to fix that?
St. James Church... well I managed to find a statement from a Bishop condeming that attack as well as others, as "state terrorism". http://www.tamilnation.org/indictment/indict067c.htm yes i know its a tamilnation source, but the whole article is simply a statement that has been released. Thusiyan 18:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to raise a point, as to whether torture and rape, committed by people who are controlled by the state, would come under, "state terror"? It's just a question really and wanted to discuss it with others. Any views? Thusiyan 14:57, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Who moved the page ? Where is the consensus on this ? There are lots and lots of sources calling state terrorism. So I don't know how it became Allegations instead of actual state terrorism. Do not try to justify this with the quote from the closing admin of AFD. He merely suggest that the article should have been nominated for name change. We need to change it back because this is wikipedia and it works by consensus and not with the view point of one editor Watchdogb 16:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
22:50, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I can see controversy for this, so started a new topic. Actually this is different from all those flight incidents listed above. Let's look at the situation.
These people were pretty much stuck. The army had warned them not to use the lagoon, the LTTE said do not use Elephant Pass. They had a lack of choices. BUT, for about a year prior to the massacre, people crossed the lagoon, within sight of army sentries, occasionally shelled, but for the most part ignored.
2 types of boats were used to cross, for simplicity they could be labelled as fast and slow. A convoy of boats were crossing the lagoon on the night of the incident, as usual. To cut a long story short, people thought to be tiger helpers, who were unarmed (according to witnesses), in a fast boat saw a navy gun boat and sped away. The navy gave chase but gave up and continuosly fired at the convoy for HALF AN HOUR, even though they received NO GUNFIRE in retur. The navy came up to the slower boats, boarded them, SAW THEY WERE ALL CIVILIANS, and proceded to attack them with knives and guns. They even stole jewellery off dead bodies.
Now this is significantly different from those incidents you listed. They did not board the planes, see that they were civilians and massacre them! This information has all been taken from the UTHR report, a NEUTRAL organisation, that has criticised both sides! See here http://www.uthr.org/Reports/Report10/chapter0.htm
Thusiyan 18:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe that Tamilnet or a tripod website can be taken to be a RS. As for Green Left Weekly, it is not an international org but a leftist newspaper in Australia. Blnguyen ( cranky admin anniversary) 03:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
This is going to be a small issue (compared to what is written above), but could someone please put a warning on the TamilNet picture of the hanging/killing of the family - it is rather disturbing. Thanks
The follwing mass revert and removing number of Rs sources was done withouyt any comment. Why ? Thanks Taprobanus 14:56, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
After doing the research to write the Sri Lankan riots of 1958 article, I have concluded that although the state did not to enough to stop the riots, neither did it instigate them, nor did it engage in retaliatory measures large enough to be considered state terrorism. I am therefore removing that section. The Ethnic conflict in Sri Lanka page still has a summary of those events, as it should. Tyronen 17:33, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I added an entry for this incident, there are more details here http://www.peacebrigades.org/lanka/slp9603.html, now it seems the GoSL did eventually undertake investigation and punished some soldiers, but it seems the commander who possibly ordered the massacre was also not punished, so it is a grey area if this is state terrorism or not.
Also it seems we have a lot of such cases which are not outright state terrorism but certainly human rites violations, so perhaps we need to either redefine this article or come up with a different article similar to 'notable attacks by the LTTE' which is not restricted to just state terrorism.-- Realstarslayer 16:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Please add any further sources or if any of the sources mentioned in the reference can be located would be helpful. Many of them are no longer available on line such as the British Refugee Council newsletters, they only go as far back as 1996 now, or the AP article.-- Realstarslayer 20:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
British Refugee Council Page for the 'Sri Lanka monitor' news letter
hi RaveenS,
I'm not so sure we want to use the term 'massacre' for each and every incident, for one it comes off as a POV and secondly it waters down the meaning of true massacres. I think it would be better to use a term that describes the actuall attack.. such as church/school bombing, Trincomalee students 'shot and killed' or executed, etc. Likewise for the articles being created for each of the main incidents.-- Realstarslayer 04:36, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
P.S. It was also one of the reasons I started the delete request for that 'LTTE Massacres' article too, which was successfuly deleted BTW.
Also there is a category called Category:Massacres_of_the_Lebanese_Civil_War, that was my idea, create a category for all these masscres both attributed to the LTTE and the SL government and a sub section on prison massacres when I am done Bindunuwara and kalutara..... RaveenS 13:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
When adding references to this article, please keep in mind to add the same reference to the main article that it links too. Also follw the format established and list them under Source websites and link them up by [1] Thanks RaveenS
I notice that my additions about several events in the 1990s were removed without warning. This does not seem to me appropriate behavior unless the edits were inaccurate, which they were not. They had citations from a neutral source (Human Rights Watch) and were prominent enough to be discussed in HRW's annual reports (more than once, for some of them.) Please in future do not delete material wholesale without discussing first unless it is clearly inaccurate and/or irrelevant. Tyronen 22:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok I just looked through the history so now I understand what happened. RaveenS I think Tyronen's additions were legitimate and do fall under State terrorism, I think it would have been better not to revert but discuss and change them if needed, in fact it seems I have duplicated one of his additions as well, the Chemmani graves/Somaratne revelations.
Tyronen, though I can understand your frustration at how your changes were handled I don't think deleteing the article helps. What is the alternative then? If something better can come of it then fine, but right now this is the only article on terrorism/human rights violations carried out by the GoSL. If we are going to have a balanced and informative handling of the Sri Lankan conflict we need this article just as much as the Notable attacks by the LTTE one so that both sides of the story are told.
So all I can suggest is to have Tyronen's changes readded and we can discuss each one and tweak as necessary. Regards -- Realstarslayer 04:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree, I did something bold and did not follow protocol because of the timing factor. Have you noticed why it is taking too long to resolve this AFD versus Syria because incidents in Sri Lanka are not notable enough for many admins and they are legitimately not sure of all these incidents. So my fear is unless we prune this (I even removed Kumarapuram because you said the culprits were found and put in jail) it will get deleted. Adding right now is the wrong thing to do, we should develop the criteria, use the vetting process and then add. Plus the users decision to burn the books because edit decisions shows that we really have to be careful in managing emotions on this list or it will be mess like the LTTE article. I have archived this article so even if it is deleted contents of this can be used to create an counter part to Notable attacks by the LTTE article. Thanks13:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
See archived of Tyronens additions Tyronen's additions. I have archived it so that we can discuss ho wif they are to be incorporated. RaveenS 14:54, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I just entered a basic description, but I think this one probably deserves a main article of its own. Also I am not sure what year to put it under, the victims in the grave are thought to be 'disappeared' from 1996, but the graves were discovered in 1998.
-- Realstarslayer 02:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
My point would be that it should have it's own entry anyway even if the merits of it in this list can be debated.
RaveenS
13:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I made some edits at 14:08, 8 August that consisted mostly of reorganization of the text and spelling and grammar fixes. These edits were reverted by an anonymous user. This is the kind of thing that might happen from an edit conflict, but it occurred fully 17 hours after my edit. What on earth is the point of reverting grammar fixes and reintroducing old errors?? I do not know for sure whether this was deliberate or accidental, but either way please be more respectful of others' contributions in future. Tyronen 14:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
(UTC)
It can be a seperate article on its own as we have a pattern of attacks now, starting from the attack on Oxfam during CBK's time to current massacre of a french NGO's workers then that article canbe linked to thsi one RaveenS
In all messacure pointed out in the secton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_attacks_carried_out_by_LTTE on the last part there it says no clear evidene ,who wrirtes these articles , does USA has evidene that Binladen is the mastermind of the 9-11 attack. Come on people terrorist wont accept they are engaging in killings Againt lies
The name of this article is totally biased. None of these cases are proven or acepted by SL athorities. And in the first line of the article it says "ALLEGED" meaning that state terrorism in srilanka is only allegation. Wikipedia doesn't call LTTE, terrorists because it is opinion. In the sameway this article should be named "ALLEGED ATTACKS BY SRILANKAN GOVERNMENT". If no one changes the name I will do it my self. Goodluck coming up with a counter argument. ~suicidebomber~ 21:36 24 Nov 2006 (UTC)
The claims of 5 deaths and 4 in a point blank range could not be verified as the Associated Press article could not be found..I think here we should stick to the BBC article, which clearly says one death and 40 were injured.Also i added {{ Fact}} sign to some remarks,in the cases where neither sources were provided nor sources couldnt verified the claims thanks -- Iwazaki 15:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
About the wsw, no i dont think its neutral,may be even worse than the pro-ltte sites..I have been following their articles for a quite a while, and i cant but think that they are too biased towards so-called tamil problems.Sorry, for me its nothing but a another propaganda machine run by PRO-eelamists,whether they support LTTE or not -- Iwazaki 18:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
please,try to find another source to verify their deaths, because WSW article doesnt carry any weight at all. -- Iwazaki 19:09, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
-- Iwazaki 00:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
-- Iwazaki 09:38, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
OK They burned to the ground certain chosen targets - including the Jaffna Public Library, with its 95,000 volumes and priceless manuscripts, a Hindu temple, the office and machinery of the independent Tamil daily newspaper Eelanadu. Four people were killed outright. No mention of this appeared in the national newspapers, not even the burning of the Library, the symbol of the Tamils' cultural identity. The government delayed bringing in emergency rule until 2 June, by which time key targets had been destroyed.’’ - Nancy Murray, the State against the Tamils in Sri Lanka - Racism and the Authoritarian State - Race & Class , Summer 1984 now Nancy Murray is no Monk hating Eelamist :)) she is Nancy Murray, Director Bill of Rights Education Project in Massachusetts, American Civil Liberties Union(ACLU). Thanks RaveenS 21:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
-- Iwazaki 00:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
The journal article title itself is State against the Tamils in Sri Lanka - Racism and the Authoritarian State - Race & Class , Summer 1984. Now we have atleast 2 instances of references. One the internet article and other journal article. 216.95.23.211 03:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
for starters,here we are discussing "so-called state terrorism".So please get your path correct,before anything. thanks Iwazaki 09:54, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Nancy Murray is an acredited American lawyer and an ACLU activists and has published number books on State violence. She is not a Tamil or Sinhalese. Regarding the burning of the library she wrote state security men instigated by two ministers burned the library and in the process killed 4 people. WSW says 4 people were pulled by the police and killed. Both the versions says 4 people were killed. Hence we have 2 references saying 4 people were killed. This is without going into the books listed as further reading. Which also state the same. I am amenable to change the sentence to say that four people were killed in the process and leave it to the readers to make up their mind. Thanks RaveenS
-- Iwazaki 11:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
This article has been written from a neutral point of view as all possible points have been cited. It went through and AFD and the discussion was non consensus. There are other series of articles on State terrorism such as State terrorism by Syria and State terrorism by the United States of America. All articles went through AFD and survived. The speedy deletion by a newbie shows that he/she is a sockpuppet who wants this point of view hidden. RaveenS 03:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I would like to site the first sentence on the article:
"Activities that can be termed as state terrorism by Sri Lanka have generally been attacks on alleged supporters of the Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna or JVP a Marxist and nationalist political party which unsuccessfully tried twice (in 1971 and 1987-89) to overthrow the democratically elected government of Sri Lanka using a violent rebellion..."
This article goes astray even with the first sentence. In your own words these acts of violence were committed by an revolutionary Political party that did not even have democratic strength to over throw the government in 1971. In fact they have not been able to over throw or take control of the democratic process of Sri Lanka even once to date. Other country's do not list a rebellion as a state terrorist act. It is the opposite of the same. It is a terrorist act against the state, be it any ethnic group.
Also you seem to forget that there are two side of this struggle and that if we go deep into the figures and facts of the terrorism by the LTTE...we will be able to fill a separate Wiki.
You should rename this article as terrorism committed against people of Sri Lanka and give balanced facts and details. Vajira K 14 November 2006
Well just going through the article I can see issues that might want to be addressed going into the future, these issues are probably causes for disagreements with other editors about the usefulness of the article and the providence of the editors etc etc.
Well it could just be me or does the article relate to terrorism very mild? I think it requires alot of background knowledge on the conflict and is thus very shallow. Maybe we should delve into causes for State Terrorism and why certain incidents constitute terrorism?-- Sharz 11:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe some people are in an scheme to point fingers at my homeland. Nirvanatoday 21 May 2007.
I will be creating another article called Assassinations attributed to the Sri Lankan government forces to clean up this article. This is an attempt at assuring that this article ceases to be the point of POV editing regarding these controversial incidents. RaveenS 17:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I reverted the edits you have done to the state terrorism SriLanka article for several reasons..
articles. thanks-- Iwazaki 13:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
without addressing a single issue i have raised here , you have reverted the article back to your POV ... please once again read points I have raised here..
Forensic team have clearly reached a unanimous decision that there are no such graves as originally alleged by the convicted prisoner Somaratne Rajapakse and others convicted of the Krishanthy Kumaraswamy rape and murder case
..And why would you delete that ?? The whole episode is a hoax,just like
this..
And didnt i tell you that the legal process in SL for any case ,is complex and slow ?? Do you expect the GOSL to file charges against ,accused in a week or two ??
And thanks for taking an general interest on my contributions..Yes,as a SriLankan I'm genuinely interested at my country,and having seeing a lot of POV targeted against my country, I decided to spend more time to make things look more neutral..
finally ,no one is whitewashing this..Why would anyone do such a thing, when the whole thing did not exist at all !! doesn't make sense at all,does it ?
Unless you an come up with proofs, that so called 600 plus missing people ended up in the chemmani grave, there is absolutely no point discussing this matter with you.anyway thanks for the interest taken on this issue.--
Iwazaki
03:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Let your edits to decide whether you have a POV or not..I ll judge you by your edits not by your comments here..But so far, you have not justified "your neutrality" here..I will certainly revert it back to mine,since you have removed the comments of the forensic experts,and given impression that only the "GOSL and its military deny graves"..I have asked you several times to bring ,evidence to prove there are mass graves in chemmani, bring the "forensic experts reports".And you have done nothing..Chemmani is a clear cut issue..It did not exist !! -- Iwazaki 03:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
this will do it for now -- Iwazaki 会話。討論 01:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Why on earth some editors trying to generalize these,when these are obviuous random actions by some Army individuals ?? Do these editors have inherent bias towards a certain group ? Iwazaki 会話。討論 02:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
In contrast, there are a vast number of massacres and war crimes in Sri Lanka were the culprits have alledgedly deliberatly not been brought to justice, and thusly this indemnity is tantamount to government sponsored terrorism.
Besides that, statics exist (I think that we all are well aware of them?) that state that Sri Lanka has the second highest amount of disappeared people in the world, according to UN states. A seperate stat, endemic to the Batticola region states that some 86% of this disapperances have been attributed to some form of government force, for a single lone ranger in the Sri Lankan Army or Special Task Force to do this would be impossible, it is systematic. [1]
However in defence of your arguement, there is a differance between state terror and the actions of a lone individual, however, when an entire company is engaged in genocidic behavior, or key witnesses to disappearances at the hand of government forces are killed by government forces, state terror must exist. -- Sharz 07:14, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
There was lots of unused links cited as the refs here. So I did some cleaning jobs and replaced necessary links as inline references. -- ♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ walkie-talkie 10:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
How is Sangam a reliable source? Also how is NESOHR a reliable source? Pubuman 13:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Shouldnt this article at best be titled ALLEGED State Terrorism, considering all the instances displayed are alegations and never been attributed to the Sri Lankan government? Pubuman 15:05, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Hey everybody, hey Thusiyan!
About the picture Image:09_06_06_435.jpg - this is a very interesting story, because the case is the exact parallel and opposite to the quarrel over this picture in the article Sri Lankan Civil War. Whereas over there, pro-Sinhala guys are in favor of keeping the pic whereas pro-Tamil ones want to get rid of it, here it's just the other way round.
Dear people, this is ridiculous. It proves that you are only trying to have these pix included to create a bad image for the respective opponents. Wikpedia shouldn't be a place for your conflicts.
I say: Let's get rid of all the gory pix so that children etc. can read WP articles without getting traumatized. Krankman 09:40, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
PS: You should not remove any {{ cn}} or {{ or}} tags without citing a proper ref to it. -- ♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ walkie-talkie 10:37, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
For the Jaffna Lagoon massacre, please see below.
Regarding the image, the same occurs on the List of terrorist attacks attributed to the LTTE with the Kent Farm massacre. Are you going to fix that?
St. James Church... well I managed to find a statement from a Bishop condeming that attack as well as others, as "state terrorism". http://www.tamilnation.org/indictment/indict067c.htm yes i know its a tamilnation source, but the whole article is simply a statement that has been released. Thusiyan 18:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to raise a point, as to whether torture and rape, committed by people who are controlled by the state, would come under, "state terror"? It's just a question really and wanted to discuss it with others. Any views? Thusiyan 14:57, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Who moved the page ? Where is the consensus on this ? There are lots and lots of sources calling state terrorism. So I don't know how it became Allegations instead of actual state terrorism. Do not try to justify this with the quote from the closing admin of AFD. He merely suggest that the article should have been nominated for name change. We need to change it back because this is wikipedia and it works by consensus and not with the view point of one editor Watchdogb 16:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
22:50, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I can see controversy for this, so started a new topic. Actually this is different from all those flight incidents listed above. Let's look at the situation.
These people were pretty much stuck. The army had warned them not to use the lagoon, the LTTE said do not use Elephant Pass. They had a lack of choices. BUT, for about a year prior to the massacre, people crossed the lagoon, within sight of army sentries, occasionally shelled, but for the most part ignored.
2 types of boats were used to cross, for simplicity they could be labelled as fast and slow. A convoy of boats were crossing the lagoon on the night of the incident, as usual. To cut a long story short, people thought to be tiger helpers, who were unarmed (according to witnesses), in a fast boat saw a navy gun boat and sped away. The navy gave chase but gave up and continuosly fired at the convoy for HALF AN HOUR, even though they received NO GUNFIRE in retur. The navy came up to the slower boats, boarded them, SAW THEY WERE ALL CIVILIANS, and proceded to attack them with knives and guns. They even stole jewellery off dead bodies.
Now this is significantly different from those incidents you listed. They did not board the planes, see that they were civilians and massacre them! This information has all been taken from the UTHR report, a NEUTRAL organisation, that has criticised both sides! See here http://www.uthr.org/Reports/Report10/chapter0.htm
Thusiyan 18:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe that Tamilnet or a tripod website can be taken to be a RS. As for Green Left Weekly, it is not an international org but a leftist newspaper in Australia. Blnguyen ( cranky admin anniversary) 03:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
This is going to be a small issue (compared to what is written above), but could someone please put a warning on the TamilNet picture of the hanging/killing of the family - it is rather disturbing. Thanks
The follwing mass revert and removing number of Rs sources was done withouyt any comment. Why ? Thanks Taprobanus 14:56, 26 July 2007 (UTC)