![]() | Squaring the circle has been listed as one of the Mathematics good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
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![]() | A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
June 7, 2022. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that although the problem of
squaring the circle with
compass and straightedge goes back to
Greek mathematics, it was not proven impossible until 1882? |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
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Re this edit: I'm beginning to wonder if there is a conflict of interest here. Is MetricoGeo in some way linked to the author of the paper?-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:16, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
"The "Other modern claims" section isn't meant to be a list of everybody who's claimed to have squared the circle,". It should naturally be limited to peer reviewed work published in scientific journals and for non-peer reviewed claims only too well known historical disputes that are well documented, such as yes for example The Indiana Pi Bill. How many well known, well documented historical disputes on Squaring the Circle (in modern times, last few hundred years) of any magnitude exist? A handfull at most! This should be minimum requirement for anything on the whole page? Or is the wiki-page an opinion page now where wiki editors can bring in links to work (even non peer reviewed) they just like, and then delete what they dont like, or references to work form people they dont like for whatever reason? But from what I see here now, it clearly looks like what was deleted will be deleted, we now understand why Eppstein deleted it so quickly! His argument for deletion was clearly just something he came up with that made it sound reasonable, but that the writer of the new section was looking straight through (see recent history on the page and arguments). People spending lots of time editing on wiki have likely high status among other active wiki editors, backing each other, so yes I think we know how this ends. Can someone list all the references given on the page and rank them roughly, based on scientific validity and quality, documentation etc., grope into peer-reviewed and non peer reviewed etc.? MetricoGeo ( talk) 13:03, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
"** Yes, "accelerate the train to a speed relative to the embankment of " (roughly 2.84 × 108 meters per second) is not exactly "practical". XOR'easter ( talk) 14:12, 21 May 2020 (UTC)" XOR'easter is here searching for arguments to delete the reference to the paper. Had XOR'easter read the whole paper would he have seen that this is only one of the special solutions and that even a printer head moving at v>0 as stated in the paper will do. So his indication that one need to move so fast as it is not practical even close to possible is totally false.
Further XOR'easter writes "is not the place to promote work that has not attracted attention and interest from the scholarly community, whether or not that work is technically correct.". I cannot see how any author of any paper has written anything about own paper on Squaring the Circle page and thereby doing self promotion. The paper is one of the very few peer review papers published on Squaring the Circle the last 20 years. And this despute I think will get interesting in the coming months and years, far outside wiki !! XOR'easter are you in any way part of Eppsteins circle? Where you part of working and voting for deleting the wiki page about Haug years back? MetricoGeo ( talk) 14:23, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Interesting. So XOR'easter want to change that one sentence to theoretical solution rather than practical, do anyone have problems with this, I doubt that the dispute has anything to do with this? Is any other discussed solution to the Squaring of the Circle more practical as they exclude 100 years + last discovery on Minkowski Space-Time?
I am looking up old wiki archives now. So Eppstein was as stated earlier one of the persons active on wiki that bashed Haug on wiki talk pages for his lack of qualifications years ago and successfully got the 10+ year wikipge about him deleted, with the help of vote from? XOR'easter surprisingly was one of the others bashing Haug for his physics in 2018 and working hard to delete the wikipedia page about him. A wiki page that had been there long over 10 years was attacked by XOR'easter and Eppstein. Did Eppstein message you XOR'easter for support also here now? I am just asking you XOR'easter, if this is what happened now? Do you think you and Eppstein think the past here could make you the slightest biased? Is this how wikipedia work these days? Has it become corrupted with circles of people spending much time here, becoming buddies defending each others editing, rather than trying to get the best out of wikipedia? Just asking, please explain to us non frequent visitors how this now will work? Will Eppstein and XOR'easter and a few others in the Eppstein-circle now vote for deletion of what a user wrote, and show how democratic and fair wiki editing is, with voting process and all? Yes we know the result of this dispute (for the year being), take care!! QuantitativeGeometry ( talk) 15:01, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
LOL out of the thousands of wiki editors, here we have Eppstein quickly deleting a reference to Haug's work someone put on the Squaring the Circle Page (and it was not put there by me either). Then out of the blue: XOR'easter shows up, coming to defend Eppstein's decision, throwing in all types of weak arguments and threatening by blocking's people. XOR'easter off course totally unbiased, except for Eppstein and XOR'easter both part of the little circle that worked hard to delete a wikipedia page about Haug that had been there for over 10+ years before they got it deleted. XOR'easter back in 2018 bashed Haug's physics work also on wikipedia, so the Eppstein-circle is off course unbiased, but as people spending lots of time on wiki to get some wiki status, we yes know how it ends = deletion of references to science not in favor of scientist activists!!
QuantitativeGeometry (
talk)
15:29, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
So XOR'easter want to change that one sentence to theoretical solution rather than practical— no, I don't want any of those sentences included at all, for reasons I have already explained clearly.
Interesting: XOR'easter wrote "His physics "work" has been rightly ignored by the scientific community. XOR'easter (talk) 15:15, 25 September 2018 (UTC)". Is your claim "has been rightly ignored" based on number publications in certain journals or of the number of references within just months or years it is published? Is it correct for a physicists like yourself to claim work published in peer reviewed journals, some under well known platforms as Springer and Elsevier to be called "rightly ignored"? Even the way you word yourself clearly indicated Prejudice, because how many fresh papers do we know if will be well cited or not, just months and a few years after publication?
And yes there are thousands of editors on wikipedia, do you think you and Eppstein that worked hard on deleting the wikipage about Haug, and bash his research, not are in any way biased? You pretend it was a large number of unbiased voters, this was not at all the case, mostly what now looks like a little circle off frequent wiki backing each others editing rather than try to maximize best for wiki . Can you also look up if peer reviewed research with few or no references by other peer review research is referred to on other wiki-pages? For me it seems like Eppstein and you are highly biased, and that you out of the thousands of wiki editors should have got others not involved in that episode to make the decision on what someone now tried to contribute with on the Squaring there Circle page now. You have not come with any solid argument that not have been easily refuted. What is the point of a talk page and discussion page when a little closed Eppstein-circle (that clearly are very biased) just can overrun any common sense and arguments ? MetricoGeo ( talk) 16:22, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
That two people having worked to delete a wikipedia page about Haug and bashed his research on wikipedia are exactly the same two (Eppstein and XOR'easter) that now have deleted what someone else than anyone on the talk page, have edited on the Squaring the Circle page, is clearly amazingly biased against Haug (Eppstein and XOR'easter). And now attempts to get focus away from this fact. If you think it is me that put in the recent reference or edit on the Squaring the Circle page, then you are very wrong, and now indicates this to take attention away from the biased non-wikipedia policy editing. Just that you are frequent on wikipedia and have contributed to editing many articles do not automatically mean you can "monopolize" your bias, as I see the one editing the page (that got deleted) now are pointing out. But yes we know how this ends, the little biased circle empty for good arguments, now work to block and expel people that have edited a page against their biased view MetricoGeo ( talk) 17:10, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
At the risk of stepping into what is clearly at least a one-sided personal dispute (with poor grammar and spelling to spice it up), I support the reverts and oppose the inclusion that was attempted. It was strangely phrased (with implicit praises to the author), it gave undue weight, and is out of step with the rest of the article. Magidin ( talk) 17:23, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
"The paper introduces all sorts of concepts from the Theory of Relativity and non-Euclidean geometry which are at best speculative." Please be more specific. Are you of the opinion that special relativity is speculative or what? Have you not studied the Squaring of the Circle page in its current form? "Although the circle cannot be squared in Euclidean space, it sometimes can be in hyperbolic geometry under suitable interpretations of the terms.[12][13] As there are no squares in the hyperbolic plane, ". Why are then this new edit discriminated?
So why was the edit deleted? Well non of the arguments so far have held water. So it now seems to boil down to XOR'easter latest claim argument for deleting, namely "curprev 16:28, 21 May 2020 XOR'easter talk contribs 37,202 bytes -614 Undid revision 958015295 by 141.0.150.76 (talk): no, this paper has not received attention, and this edit violates 3RR after a warning thank Tag: Undo" Has not revived attention? Compared with what? Can someone go though when the links to the various pages the Squaring the circle pages link too, when they where added and what attention they had got at that time? I doubt the Eppstein-circle will do any serious quantitative work on that, as it will almost for sure fall in their disfavor! Best luck forward with the biased editing, and also I see XOR'easter now is so irritated he tries to get me banned from even writing discussions on the talk page. Will he also try to delete what has been discussed here? MetricoGeo ( talk) 17:43, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Come on stop pretending not biased. Look at the many references on the Squaring the Circle page:
Youtube: I assume they get linked to based on number off views. "James Joyce Quarterly" included in MathSciNet nor zbMATH? long series of references not included in these. You have made a biased decision. Your first reason you stated for doing so clearly did not held water. Then the XOR'easter was "called in" with all arguments refuted. So please list now why the last edit was deleted? Can we get a summary from XOR'easter that deleted it last time may be? MetricoGeo ( talk) 18:18, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Yes makes exceptions and come up with criteria to fit own biased view. Youtube is not a math journal so that you have accepted I see. Some workbook in mathematica is not in the list so that can be linked to, non peer reviewed books not in the list that can be linked to, lectures of various sorts can be linked to. You stated "is not included in MathSciNet nor zbMATH, unlike almost all serious mathematics journals. " so almost? how many serious journals not in this list, is it 1 to 5 if so you must remember them, is it more than 10, more than 50? So the argument now for your vote for deletion is that the journal is not in these two lists? MetricoGeo ( talk) 18:32, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Sorry to point it out XOR'easter but your claim here is evidently false. You state ":The only YouTube video used as a reference is a Numberphile video," this is false The link too "2000 years unsolved: Why is doubling cubes and squaring circles impossible?" is also another youtube. And I see you are working hard to get me blocked for posting out politely error and weaknesses in your argumentation. And even if on a academic platform also "the Squaring the Circle and Other Impossibilities, lecture by Robin Wilson, at Gresham College, 16 January 2008 " is just a film, what is the criteria for ranking filmed lectures higher than peer reviewed journal research? I have nothing against these linkes, the YouTube and lecture film is informative and useful, what I am against is your biased view and from now working to block me even to point out the weakness and error in your argumentation! MetricoGeo ( talk) 18:46, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
okay point taken on your last argument, so only 1 youtube that has passed and used as reference in addtion to non peer reviewed books, dictionary etc.. And more YouTube etc used in external links. Glad we got it right! Thanks!
Still what is the summary for deleting the new edit with the reference (an edit never done by me)? What arguments are you holding on to for this decision?
And why I am getting warnings I will be blocked because of this discussion ? (I mean XOR'easter clearly reported me, despite I point out exactly why I mean he and Eppstein is biased. And I have politely answered any argument!). If loosing arguments, get your opponents blocked!! MetricoGeo ( talk) 19:01, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
I am asking why the edit will has been deleted. I have pointed out that among thousands of wikipedia editors the one first deleting with a weak argument not holding water was one of the persons before working to delete Haug's wikipedia page. And this was not a new page, this was a page that had been on wikipedia for 10 years. Next I pointed out that the one coming with other arguments to delete was XOR'easter. It is a false claim to claim I here to build an encyclopedia. This because I have not written a single word on the Squaring the Circle page, not under any other names. I have however witnessed what I still claim is biased. History will tell, anyone can read this also in the future (as already backed up) and see the arguments posted here. You claim I am holding on to conspiracy theories! This is also false. Among thousands of wikipedia editors we now have 2 that have attacked Haug and bashed his research in the past evidently that have deleted the edit referring to his work. If I am considered to be a conspiracy theories for pointing out this, and questioned if this not lead to bias then please feel free to call me for so. And I am again now asking why the edit is deleted. The point of a talk page must be see what arguments hold some scientific standards. Lets list the arguments given:
1. XOR'easter claims I am a conspiracy theorist for pointing out that Eppstein and XOR'easter can be biased because they have been writing very negative about Haug's research before and being part of a very small grope deleting the wikipage about him, all evident from the wikipedia archives. Is this a good argument for deleting a edit on the Squaring the Circle page not done by me?
2. XOR'easter pointed out the solution presented in the paper at all not was practical by using a special case presented in the paper that gives a solution at velocity (roughly 2.84 × 108 meters per second) is not exactly "practical". I pointed out this was not the case if he had read the whole paper, as one have solutions for any v>0. So this was just nonsense. Also I pointed out that Squaring of the Circle in general a theoretical exercise and asked why this was less practical than other solution. Then he seems to conclude that he basically had no point with his point that he wanted deletion for other reasons.
3. Eppstein pointed out that The Mathematics Enthusiast, is not included in MathSciNet nor zbMATH, unlike almost all serious mathematics journals. I pointed out this was not the case with series of references on the wikipage. It refers to 1 youtubes, to non peer received books, it has also external links to more youtubes, to mathematica work books etc. Eppstein also do not answer what he mean with “almost all”. Is 10, 20, 50 journals still of quality that he think should have been on that list?
4. XOR'easter wrote “Instead of showing that you understand the points made by myself and four others,” Please point out exactly what point I do not understand since you comes with such non specific claims and accusation that even can lead to my blockage.
Feel free to list more arguments already given and we can discuss if they hold etc. Deletion on wikipedia can not be monopolized by small editor circles. This is why we have such talk pages!
MetricoGeo ( talk) 20:24, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
to promote work that has not received attention from the scholarly community. You have ignored this and never provided verifiable, documentable evidence of such attention, even to the extent that one might reasonably expect for a niche-interest topic. The addition you have been trying to defend is a bad addition and would have been so even if the paper weren't by Haug. In fact, when I made that edit, I barely remembered Haug's name and had only a vague sense that it was familiar. So, your entire conspiracy theory is an irrelevant tangent. And yes, by this point, you are well into the regime of conspiracy theories. You write,
I have pointed out that among thousands of wikipedia editors the one first deleting with a weak argument not holding water was one of the persons before working to delete Haug's wikipedia page. And this was not a new page, this was a page that had been on wikipedia for 10 years.First, no, David Eppstein's argument wasn't "weak", but really quite reasonable: "there are lots of non-compass-and-straightedge ways of describing squares of area π, so what makes this overcomplicated one special?" [1] Second, yes, there are thousands of Wikipedia editors, but not all of them regularly edit articles about mathematics. That's kind of an important point. Both David Eppstein and I are regulars in deletion debates about scholars and scientists, and like all regulars there, we've seen far too many to bear strong feelings about any of them. Sometimes we regulars advocate keeping a page, and sometimes we advocate deleting it, and we don't always agree. In the case of Haug, we were two out of six people all arguing that he fell short of notability standards. Third, the article on Haug only existed because the "delete" result of an earlier AfD in 2008 was ignored, presumably due to a clerical error somewhere. Fourth, the fact that an article has existed for 10 years doesn't automatically mean it should keep existing; mediocre pages and even outright hoaxes have lasted longer than that, just because it's a big place and nobody noticed. XOR'easter ( talk) 20:58, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Squaring the circle is one of the Four Problems Of Antiquity. Although not explicitly stated, it is assumed that these constructions should take place in Euclidean space. What the Haug paper appears to be saying is that by moving the goalposts into non-Euclidean space, the problem becomes solvable. As a general rule, if you can't get an exact answer on a calculator, you can't do it in Euclidean space in a finite number of steps either.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 21:19, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Further comments by
blocked sockpuppets
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"Is Squaring the Circle in Minkowski Space-Time also not purely mathematical? You have yourself pointed out it is not practical so then it falls in under pure mathematical and geometrical?. As I have pointed out before on the talk page of the Squaring the Circle Page the one sentence put in by others than me that the paper referred to gave a practical solution could naturally be edited. But CXOR'easter then claimed this at all not was an issue causing the deletion. So again I keep asking why it was deleted? Now you will block me for asking you questions about your arguments? Is it considered a personal attack to point out serious flaws in your argumentation? Or can perhaps blocking someone for question and pointing out flaws in your argumentation be seen as a attack on free speech ???? MetricoGeo (talk) 09:07, 24 May 2020 (UTC)" /info/en/?search=User_talk:MetricoGeo And then after this message, clearly blocked from even arguing why not should be blocked from discussing why was blocked. Clearly free speech and constructive critics of why things have been edited is not allowed if one touch upon the editing of the Eppstein circle. Do Eppstein and XOR'easter really think this is fair behavior? Off course they think so...or at least will keep pretending so. QuantitativeGeometry ( talk) 18:37, 31 May 2020 (UTC) Based on the comment from UK-WK-ed (and the whole talk page, and the archives of Eppstein/XOR'easter previous editing in relation to this case) I think it is a fair question to ask exactly why was the edit by UK-WK-ed deleted again? QuantitativeGeometry ( talk) 18:43, 31 May 2020 (UTC) |
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I came across this figure and think it could be used in an article like this one or perhaps some of those listed under quadrature. We don't seem to have any with a focus or even section on spheres though, so just putting it here for the moment. -- Daniel Mietchen ( talk) 20:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Bell: Men of Mathematics remarks that with straightedge and compass it's impossible to square the circle, but if other apparatus is allowed then it's easy to square the circle. Is he right? If so, could such a construction be included in this article? What sort of apparatus is required?
By the way, Olds' approximate construction in his book Continued Fractions is the same as Jakob de Gelder's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.159.248.94 ( talk • contribs)
(4/sqrt(phi))² + x^2 = pi^2
or: x^2 + (4/(sqrt((1+sqrt(5))/2)))^2 = pi^2
Squaring is a process and there are no straight lines in nature. Everything curves along with time. Thus a process where time proceeds, drawing a circle actually produces helix in time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.92.179.215 ( talk) 13:40, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
there are no straight lines in nature: this is bollocks, see picture to the right.
While I think this article successfully explains why it is not possible to square the circle, it completely ignores the question of why anyone would want to. The "squaring" of various objects was far more important to ancient mathematicians than modern readers would normally be aware of. It seems this article would be greatly improved with one or two paragraphs explaining the concept of squaring, and perhaps a simple example using the triangle. Maury Markowitz ( talk) 10:35, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
![]() | Squaring the circle has been listed as one of the Mathematics good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() | A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
June 7, 2022. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that although the problem of
squaring the circle with
compass and straightedge goes back to
Greek mathematics, it was not proven impossible until 1882? |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Re this edit: I'm beginning to wonder if there is a conflict of interest here. Is MetricoGeo in some way linked to the author of the paper?-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:16, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
"The "Other modern claims" section isn't meant to be a list of everybody who's claimed to have squared the circle,". It should naturally be limited to peer reviewed work published in scientific journals and for non-peer reviewed claims only too well known historical disputes that are well documented, such as yes for example The Indiana Pi Bill. How many well known, well documented historical disputes on Squaring the Circle (in modern times, last few hundred years) of any magnitude exist? A handfull at most! This should be minimum requirement for anything on the whole page? Or is the wiki-page an opinion page now where wiki editors can bring in links to work (even non peer reviewed) they just like, and then delete what they dont like, or references to work form people they dont like for whatever reason? But from what I see here now, it clearly looks like what was deleted will be deleted, we now understand why Eppstein deleted it so quickly! His argument for deletion was clearly just something he came up with that made it sound reasonable, but that the writer of the new section was looking straight through (see recent history on the page and arguments). People spending lots of time editing on wiki have likely high status among other active wiki editors, backing each other, so yes I think we know how this ends. Can someone list all the references given on the page and rank them roughly, based on scientific validity and quality, documentation etc., grope into peer-reviewed and non peer reviewed etc.? MetricoGeo ( talk) 13:03, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
"** Yes, "accelerate the train to a speed relative to the embankment of " (roughly 2.84 × 108 meters per second) is not exactly "practical". XOR'easter ( talk) 14:12, 21 May 2020 (UTC)" XOR'easter is here searching for arguments to delete the reference to the paper. Had XOR'easter read the whole paper would he have seen that this is only one of the special solutions and that even a printer head moving at v>0 as stated in the paper will do. So his indication that one need to move so fast as it is not practical even close to possible is totally false.
Further XOR'easter writes "is not the place to promote work that has not attracted attention and interest from the scholarly community, whether or not that work is technically correct.". I cannot see how any author of any paper has written anything about own paper on Squaring the Circle page and thereby doing self promotion. The paper is one of the very few peer review papers published on Squaring the Circle the last 20 years. And this despute I think will get interesting in the coming months and years, far outside wiki !! XOR'easter are you in any way part of Eppsteins circle? Where you part of working and voting for deleting the wiki page about Haug years back? MetricoGeo ( talk) 14:23, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Interesting. So XOR'easter want to change that one sentence to theoretical solution rather than practical, do anyone have problems with this, I doubt that the dispute has anything to do with this? Is any other discussed solution to the Squaring of the Circle more practical as they exclude 100 years + last discovery on Minkowski Space-Time?
I am looking up old wiki archives now. So Eppstein was as stated earlier one of the persons active on wiki that bashed Haug on wiki talk pages for his lack of qualifications years ago and successfully got the 10+ year wikipge about him deleted, with the help of vote from? XOR'easter surprisingly was one of the others bashing Haug for his physics in 2018 and working hard to delete the wikipedia page about him. A wiki page that had been there long over 10 years was attacked by XOR'easter and Eppstein. Did Eppstein message you XOR'easter for support also here now? I am just asking you XOR'easter, if this is what happened now? Do you think you and Eppstein think the past here could make you the slightest biased? Is this how wikipedia work these days? Has it become corrupted with circles of people spending much time here, becoming buddies defending each others editing, rather than trying to get the best out of wikipedia? Just asking, please explain to us non frequent visitors how this now will work? Will Eppstein and XOR'easter and a few others in the Eppstein-circle now vote for deletion of what a user wrote, and show how democratic and fair wiki editing is, with voting process and all? Yes we know the result of this dispute (for the year being), take care!! QuantitativeGeometry ( talk) 15:01, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
LOL out of the thousands of wiki editors, here we have Eppstein quickly deleting a reference to Haug's work someone put on the Squaring the Circle Page (and it was not put there by me either). Then out of the blue: XOR'easter shows up, coming to defend Eppstein's decision, throwing in all types of weak arguments and threatening by blocking's people. XOR'easter off course totally unbiased, except for Eppstein and XOR'easter both part of the little circle that worked hard to delete a wikipedia page about Haug that had been there for over 10+ years before they got it deleted. XOR'easter back in 2018 bashed Haug's physics work also on wikipedia, so the Eppstein-circle is off course unbiased, but as people spending lots of time on wiki to get some wiki status, we yes know how it ends = deletion of references to science not in favor of scientist activists!!
QuantitativeGeometry (
talk)
15:29, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
So XOR'easter want to change that one sentence to theoretical solution rather than practical— no, I don't want any of those sentences included at all, for reasons I have already explained clearly.
Interesting: XOR'easter wrote "His physics "work" has been rightly ignored by the scientific community. XOR'easter (talk) 15:15, 25 September 2018 (UTC)". Is your claim "has been rightly ignored" based on number publications in certain journals or of the number of references within just months or years it is published? Is it correct for a physicists like yourself to claim work published in peer reviewed journals, some under well known platforms as Springer and Elsevier to be called "rightly ignored"? Even the way you word yourself clearly indicated Prejudice, because how many fresh papers do we know if will be well cited or not, just months and a few years after publication?
And yes there are thousands of editors on wikipedia, do you think you and Eppstein that worked hard on deleting the wikipage about Haug, and bash his research, not are in any way biased? You pretend it was a large number of unbiased voters, this was not at all the case, mostly what now looks like a little circle off frequent wiki backing each others editing rather than try to maximize best for wiki . Can you also look up if peer reviewed research with few or no references by other peer review research is referred to on other wiki-pages? For me it seems like Eppstein and you are highly biased, and that you out of the thousands of wiki editors should have got others not involved in that episode to make the decision on what someone now tried to contribute with on the Squaring there Circle page now. You have not come with any solid argument that not have been easily refuted. What is the point of a talk page and discussion page when a little closed Eppstein-circle (that clearly are very biased) just can overrun any common sense and arguments ? MetricoGeo ( talk) 16:22, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
That two people having worked to delete a wikipedia page about Haug and bashed his research on wikipedia are exactly the same two (Eppstein and XOR'easter) that now have deleted what someone else than anyone on the talk page, have edited on the Squaring the Circle page, is clearly amazingly biased against Haug (Eppstein and XOR'easter). And now attempts to get focus away from this fact. If you think it is me that put in the recent reference or edit on the Squaring the Circle page, then you are very wrong, and now indicates this to take attention away from the biased non-wikipedia policy editing. Just that you are frequent on wikipedia and have contributed to editing many articles do not automatically mean you can "monopolize" your bias, as I see the one editing the page (that got deleted) now are pointing out. But yes we know how this ends, the little biased circle empty for good arguments, now work to block and expel people that have edited a page against their biased view MetricoGeo ( talk) 17:10, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
At the risk of stepping into what is clearly at least a one-sided personal dispute (with poor grammar and spelling to spice it up), I support the reverts and oppose the inclusion that was attempted. It was strangely phrased (with implicit praises to the author), it gave undue weight, and is out of step with the rest of the article. Magidin ( talk) 17:23, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
"The paper introduces all sorts of concepts from the Theory of Relativity and non-Euclidean geometry which are at best speculative." Please be more specific. Are you of the opinion that special relativity is speculative or what? Have you not studied the Squaring of the Circle page in its current form? "Although the circle cannot be squared in Euclidean space, it sometimes can be in hyperbolic geometry under suitable interpretations of the terms.[12][13] As there are no squares in the hyperbolic plane, ". Why are then this new edit discriminated?
So why was the edit deleted? Well non of the arguments so far have held water. So it now seems to boil down to XOR'easter latest claim argument for deleting, namely "curprev 16:28, 21 May 2020 XOR'easter talk contribs 37,202 bytes -614 Undid revision 958015295 by 141.0.150.76 (talk): no, this paper has not received attention, and this edit violates 3RR after a warning thank Tag: Undo" Has not revived attention? Compared with what? Can someone go though when the links to the various pages the Squaring the circle pages link too, when they where added and what attention they had got at that time? I doubt the Eppstein-circle will do any serious quantitative work on that, as it will almost for sure fall in their disfavor! Best luck forward with the biased editing, and also I see XOR'easter now is so irritated he tries to get me banned from even writing discussions on the talk page. Will he also try to delete what has been discussed here? MetricoGeo ( talk) 17:43, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Come on stop pretending not biased. Look at the many references on the Squaring the Circle page:
Youtube: I assume they get linked to based on number off views. "James Joyce Quarterly" included in MathSciNet nor zbMATH? long series of references not included in these. You have made a biased decision. Your first reason you stated for doing so clearly did not held water. Then the XOR'easter was "called in" with all arguments refuted. So please list now why the last edit was deleted? Can we get a summary from XOR'easter that deleted it last time may be? MetricoGeo ( talk) 18:18, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Yes makes exceptions and come up with criteria to fit own biased view. Youtube is not a math journal so that you have accepted I see. Some workbook in mathematica is not in the list so that can be linked to, non peer reviewed books not in the list that can be linked to, lectures of various sorts can be linked to. You stated "is not included in MathSciNet nor zbMATH, unlike almost all serious mathematics journals. " so almost? how many serious journals not in this list, is it 1 to 5 if so you must remember them, is it more than 10, more than 50? So the argument now for your vote for deletion is that the journal is not in these two lists? MetricoGeo ( talk) 18:32, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Sorry to point it out XOR'easter but your claim here is evidently false. You state ":The only YouTube video used as a reference is a Numberphile video," this is false The link too "2000 years unsolved: Why is doubling cubes and squaring circles impossible?" is also another youtube. And I see you are working hard to get me blocked for posting out politely error and weaknesses in your argumentation. And even if on a academic platform also "the Squaring the Circle and Other Impossibilities, lecture by Robin Wilson, at Gresham College, 16 January 2008 " is just a film, what is the criteria for ranking filmed lectures higher than peer reviewed journal research? I have nothing against these linkes, the YouTube and lecture film is informative and useful, what I am against is your biased view and from now working to block me even to point out the weakness and error in your argumentation! MetricoGeo ( talk) 18:46, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
okay point taken on your last argument, so only 1 youtube that has passed and used as reference in addtion to non peer reviewed books, dictionary etc.. And more YouTube etc used in external links. Glad we got it right! Thanks!
Still what is the summary for deleting the new edit with the reference (an edit never done by me)? What arguments are you holding on to for this decision?
And why I am getting warnings I will be blocked because of this discussion ? (I mean XOR'easter clearly reported me, despite I point out exactly why I mean he and Eppstein is biased. And I have politely answered any argument!). If loosing arguments, get your opponents blocked!! MetricoGeo ( talk) 19:01, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
I am asking why the edit will has been deleted. I have pointed out that among thousands of wikipedia editors the one first deleting with a weak argument not holding water was one of the persons before working to delete Haug's wikipedia page. And this was not a new page, this was a page that had been on wikipedia for 10 years. Next I pointed out that the one coming with other arguments to delete was XOR'easter. It is a false claim to claim I here to build an encyclopedia. This because I have not written a single word on the Squaring the Circle page, not under any other names. I have however witnessed what I still claim is biased. History will tell, anyone can read this also in the future (as already backed up) and see the arguments posted here. You claim I am holding on to conspiracy theories! This is also false. Among thousands of wikipedia editors we now have 2 that have attacked Haug and bashed his research in the past evidently that have deleted the edit referring to his work. If I am considered to be a conspiracy theories for pointing out this, and questioned if this not lead to bias then please feel free to call me for so. And I am again now asking why the edit is deleted. The point of a talk page must be see what arguments hold some scientific standards. Lets list the arguments given:
1. XOR'easter claims I am a conspiracy theorist for pointing out that Eppstein and XOR'easter can be biased because they have been writing very negative about Haug's research before and being part of a very small grope deleting the wikipage about him, all evident from the wikipedia archives. Is this a good argument for deleting a edit on the Squaring the Circle page not done by me?
2. XOR'easter pointed out the solution presented in the paper at all not was practical by using a special case presented in the paper that gives a solution at velocity (roughly 2.84 × 108 meters per second) is not exactly "practical". I pointed out this was not the case if he had read the whole paper, as one have solutions for any v>0. So this was just nonsense. Also I pointed out that Squaring of the Circle in general a theoretical exercise and asked why this was less practical than other solution. Then he seems to conclude that he basically had no point with his point that he wanted deletion for other reasons.
3. Eppstein pointed out that The Mathematics Enthusiast, is not included in MathSciNet nor zbMATH, unlike almost all serious mathematics journals. I pointed out this was not the case with series of references on the wikipage. It refers to 1 youtubes, to non peer received books, it has also external links to more youtubes, to mathematica work books etc. Eppstein also do not answer what he mean with “almost all”. Is 10, 20, 50 journals still of quality that he think should have been on that list?
4. XOR'easter wrote “Instead of showing that you understand the points made by myself and four others,” Please point out exactly what point I do not understand since you comes with such non specific claims and accusation that even can lead to my blockage.
Feel free to list more arguments already given and we can discuss if they hold etc. Deletion on wikipedia can not be monopolized by small editor circles. This is why we have such talk pages!
MetricoGeo ( talk) 20:24, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
to promote work that has not received attention from the scholarly community. You have ignored this and never provided verifiable, documentable evidence of such attention, even to the extent that one might reasonably expect for a niche-interest topic. The addition you have been trying to defend is a bad addition and would have been so even if the paper weren't by Haug. In fact, when I made that edit, I barely remembered Haug's name and had only a vague sense that it was familiar. So, your entire conspiracy theory is an irrelevant tangent. And yes, by this point, you are well into the regime of conspiracy theories. You write,
I have pointed out that among thousands of wikipedia editors the one first deleting with a weak argument not holding water was one of the persons before working to delete Haug's wikipedia page. And this was not a new page, this was a page that had been on wikipedia for 10 years.First, no, David Eppstein's argument wasn't "weak", but really quite reasonable: "there are lots of non-compass-and-straightedge ways of describing squares of area π, so what makes this overcomplicated one special?" [1] Second, yes, there are thousands of Wikipedia editors, but not all of them regularly edit articles about mathematics. That's kind of an important point. Both David Eppstein and I are regulars in deletion debates about scholars and scientists, and like all regulars there, we've seen far too many to bear strong feelings about any of them. Sometimes we regulars advocate keeping a page, and sometimes we advocate deleting it, and we don't always agree. In the case of Haug, we were two out of six people all arguing that he fell short of notability standards. Third, the article on Haug only existed because the "delete" result of an earlier AfD in 2008 was ignored, presumably due to a clerical error somewhere. Fourth, the fact that an article has existed for 10 years doesn't automatically mean it should keep existing; mediocre pages and even outright hoaxes have lasted longer than that, just because it's a big place and nobody noticed. XOR'easter ( talk) 20:58, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Squaring the circle is one of the Four Problems Of Antiquity. Although not explicitly stated, it is assumed that these constructions should take place in Euclidean space. What the Haug paper appears to be saying is that by moving the goalposts into non-Euclidean space, the problem becomes solvable. As a general rule, if you can't get an exact answer on a calculator, you can't do it in Euclidean space in a finite number of steps either.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 21:19, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Further comments by
blocked sockpuppets
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"Is Squaring the Circle in Minkowski Space-Time also not purely mathematical? You have yourself pointed out it is not practical so then it falls in under pure mathematical and geometrical?. As I have pointed out before on the talk page of the Squaring the Circle Page the one sentence put in by others than me that the paper referred to gave a practical solution could naturally be edited. But CXOR'easter then claimed this at all not was an issue causing the deletion. So again I keep asking why it was deleted? Now you will block me for asking you questions about your arguments? Is it considered a personal attack to point out serious flaws in your argumentation? Or can perhaps blocking someone for question and pointing out flaws in your argumentation be seen as a attack on free speech ???? MetricoGeo (talk) 09:07, 24 May 2020 (UTC)" /info/en/?search=User_talk:MetricoGeo And then after this message, clearly blocked from even arguing why not should be blocked from discussing why was blocked. Clearly free speech and constructive critics of why things have been edited is not allowed if one touch upon the editing of the Eppstein circle. Do Eppstein and XOR'easter really think this is fair behavior? Off course they think so...or at least will keep pretending so. QuantitativeGeometry ( talk) 18:37, 31 May 2020 (UTC) Based on the comment from UK-WK-ed (and the whole talk page, and the archives of Eppstein/XOR'easter previous editing in relation to this case) I think it is a fair question to ask exactly why was the edit by UK-WK-ed deleted again? QuantitativeGeometry ( talk) 18:43, 31 May 2020 (UTC) |
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I came across this figure and think it could be used in an article like this one or perhaps some of those listed under quadrature. We don't seem to have any with a focus or even section on spheres though, so just putting it here for the moment. -- Daniel Mietchen ( talk) 20:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Bell: Men of Mathematics remarks that with straightedge and compass it's impossible to square the circle, but if other apparatus is allowed then it's easy to square the circle. Is he right? If so, could such a construction be included in this article? What sort of apparatus is required?
By the way, Olds' approximate construction in his book Continued Fractions is the same as Jakob de Gelder's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.159.248.94 ( talk • contribs)
(4/sqrt(phi))² + x^2 = pi^2
or: x^2 + (4/(sqrt((1+sqrt(5))/2)))^2 = pi^2
Squaring is a process and there are no straight lines in nature. Everything curves along with time. Thus a process where time proceeds, drawing a circle actually produces helix in time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.92.179.215 ( talk) 13:40, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
there are no straight lines in nature: this is bollocks, see picture to the right.
While I think this article successfully explains why it is not possible to square the circle, it completely ignores the question of why anyone would want to. The "squaring" of various objects was far more important to ancient mathematicians than modern readers would normally be aware of. It seems this article would be greatly improved with one or two paragraphs explaining the concept of squaring, and perhaps a simple example using the triangle. Maury Markowitz ( talk) 10:35, 10 June 2022 (UTC)