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What about the Chinese mortarboard-style cap worn by emperors (see Huang Di or Qin Shi Huang)? -- Dpr 04:08, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
You are referring to the Chinese emperor's mian (冕) which has nothing whatsoever to do with the Western mortarboard or academia. The ancient Chinese version of the mortarboard is the si-fang pingding jin (四方平定巾). -- Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 21:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I just made a new page called Mortar Board (honor society). I think there should be a disambiguation page, but I do not know how to make one yet.
Mortarboard is a solecism. This is an academic cap, as in cap and gown. Charles Matthews 17:39, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
We have two claims I am not sure are compatible:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=mortar has mortier in the etymology, so it's just possible that both are right, but I am unsure. Does anyone know? — Vivacissamamente 05:08, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
~
I looked around the internet and found that the statement "from the French mortier, a type of toque" is irrelevant because "mortier" in french means mortar (the bricklaying kind.) I think It should be changed to something about mortar and not a french word (but im not skilled enough to modify it :P)
Details regarding the tassel ought to be mentioned here; where they came from, symbolism, and traditions (such as moving the tassel from one side to the other upon receiving one's diploma). ProhibitOnions 23:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I have a question regarding this phrase and the tassel: "In some ceremonies, the student wears the tassel on the right up until reception of the diploma, at which point it is switched to the left." During both my high school and bachelor's degree ceremonies, we wore them on the left until the reception of the diploma, and then it was switched to the right. Do you think this should be edited to simply say "In some ceremonies, the student wears the tassel on one side up until reception of the diploma, at which point it is switched to the other." ? Or are my schools just among the minority? Pike 21:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Is there no connection with Freemasonry, this is where I understood it came from, the gown also having occult overtones —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.211.130 ( talk) 07:02, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
The article states that the mortaboards may have been influenced by practices in Islamic madrassas. Apart from the fact that at a guess I would say this is highly unlikely - as far as I know it is more an 18th/19th century phenomenon to adopt oriental-style clothing - the source in the footnote leads to a NEWSPAPER article in the NEW YORK TIMES (not the Herald Tribune), which doesn't mention mortaboards at all. Could anybody plz correct this? (I am not a native speaker of English and didn't want to do it). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.142.254.63 ( talk) 07:58, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I find the removal of this content highly questionable. It was tagged "failed verification" when the source clearly supports the statement. Now the content has been removed multiple times - despite being sourced to a NYT editorial - without removing all the unsourced and questionable content in this article. That strongly suggests bias. I will be restoring this material unless a clear and convincing reason not to is provided soon. Gimmetoo ( talk) 12:47, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
I've commented out this sentence and the accompanying NYT reference, pending further discussion here. The link to Islamic madrassas sounds highly unlikely to me, and none of the main historical sources on academic dress (eg A History of Academical Dress in Europe by William Hargreaves-Mawdsley) contain any evidence for such a link. On its own, I'm really not convinced that a single sentence in a newspaper opinion piece is sufficient justification. The article says "Our mortarboards, tassels, academic robes and rituals of the oral defense of a written thesis can all be traced back to them". But this is all wrong: as far as I can see nobody has traced any of this back to Islamic madrassas. In fact, there's a wealth of historical evidence (see Hargreaves-Mawdsley or one of the other books on the subject) to demonstrate that academic dress instead derives from mediaeval European monastic robes (in particular the supertunica, habit and hood). The oral examination also dates back to mediaeval European universities - in order to attain a particular status (or "degree") within the university, the candidate would have to submit to a public examination in which they argued in support of their thesis. I know it's in a reputable newspaper (it's not the Daily Mail, after all) but in this case I think the writer has got it wrong, and I'd prefer it if this assertion could be supported by at least one additional, independent source - preferably one that backs up their assertion with some sort of evidence. -- Nicholas Jackson ( talk) 12:49, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
Dalrymple's article also appeared in Interreligious Insight (2006). It says "even mortar boards, tassels, and academic robes, can all be traced back to the practices of madrasas". The author appears to be William Dalrymple (historian), so the idea could simply be attributed to him. The sourcing seems more than enough to support what the article here said: "may have been influenced by". Gimmetoo ( talk) 01:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
In The Rise of Colleges: Institutions of Learning in Islam and the West, George Makdisi has demonstrated how terms such as having “fellows” holding a “chair,” or students “reading” a subject and obtaining “degrees,” as well as practices such as inaugural lectures, the oral defense, even mortar boards, tassels, and academic robes, can all be traced back to the practices of madrasas.
The Islamic theologian Afifi al-Akiti has claimed that the shape of the mortarboard can be traced to a ceremony in mediaeval Islamic madrassas, (citation to Emel article) but this suggestion has not found acceptance among historians of academic dress, and al-Akiti himself has provided no concrete evidence of a causal connection.
I appreciate all the effort that has gone into finding a compromise acceptable to all, but surely this still gives undue prominence to a non-subject; it gives coverage to something that doesn't actually exist. -- Old Moonraker ( talk) 12:44, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
The ICRD repeats the claim because they've copied it verbatim from Dalrymple's article (they cite it as the source for that segment), which we've already established is incorrect in citing Makdisi's book, so that's irrelevant. You say "the IHT/NYT column shows the idea in journalism", but that doesn't matter - lots of ideas turn up in journalism but have no place in a factual encyclopaedia, and the policy WP:RS supports this.
I'm not disputing that al-Akiti is known to have this view, I just haven't seen even the slightest indication that he's ever provided any proper historical evidence for his claim - the only thing any of us have been able to find is that brief segment on Youtube where he draws somewhat clumsy parallels between a ceremony of placing the Koran on a student's head, and the shape of the mortarboard. A Google Scholar search turns up no publications by al-Akiti which appear to relate to this matter. What would you accept as proof of this lack of evidence? I also disagree that "has not found acceptance" is synonymous with "has been actively rejected", but what would be your preferred phrasing?
I'd rather this hypothesis were just excised from the article entirely, to be honest - it's a fringe idea with, as far as we can tell, one proponent who's provided no supporting evidence that anyone can find, and one who only mentions it tangentially (and is demonstrably mistaken in doing so). Earlier on, you asked me why I was so desperate to suppress this idea, so let me ask you the dual question: why are you so adamant that it be included? -- Nicholas Jackson ( talk) 00:42, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
@ Nicholas Jackson: (Feel free to ping others involved in the discussion who are still active in Wikipedia.) The issue of the possibly Islamic origin of the academic cap + tassle has come up on social media, apparently sourced to baytalfann, which mentions Islam in Europe by Jack Goody, a Cambridge social anthropologist who, per Wikipedia, died in 2015 and wrote that book in 2004. So he can't be emailed to ask about his source, but in principle he might have given sources in his book. In the discussion over at Academic dress, a one-edit-only user referred to Goody with a quote, but no source. If you have access to Islam in Europe, it's probably worth checking: was it a throwaway comment that he thought was already well established and didn't need a source, or did he find evidence himself? Boud ( talk) 09:33, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
"It is also often termed a square, trencher, or corner-cap in the UK and Australia..."
Hmm. In Australia, possibly. However, I'm English and middle-aged (therefore not too young to have come across archaic idiom), and I've never, ever heard any of these alternatives to 'mortarboard' before. Please could someone add a citation for this odd assertion? Blitterbug ( talk) 00:33, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
The usual black mortarboard cap, tassel, and gown are part of the high schol grad ceremony in Canada, too, a fact that should be included. You can look at any pix in Canadian high school yearbooks and newspapers. I should know since I'm Canadian. The Stacy DeSousa picture is more obvious proof.-- 76.69.192.232 ( talk) 18:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Most odd dress-items have some earlier 'function' (think: lapels, tricornes). These caps are always worn with hoods, even if the hoods are not nowadays raised. So might a mortier originally have been a (hidden) framework to allow a French magistrate to look around, even though his hood was up to prevent draughts? The hood might slip off, with too much shaking of the head - how about a cord (or ribbons) on top to secure the cap to the hood? Pure speculation, and thus unworthy of this forum. 81.157.12.38 ( talk) 15:08, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
There should be a section on the color of tassels worn by faculty at the graduation ceremony. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.102.172 ( talk) 04:26, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks to all the patient editors for fixing my over-enthusiastic vandalism repairs. Original, vandalised version was here, fixed in this edit, but I hadn't noticed. -- Old Moonraker ( talk) 05:32, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Is any citation at the end of the section really needed? The tradition of self-made caps is spread among academics and well-known. There is, however, no "do it yourself"-manual or any to refer to. Many groups post photos of caps on their webpages, but citing (all of) them - I believe - would not benefit the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.91.163.157 ( talk) 14:25, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Currently there is one paragraph stating some yanks patented the mortar board in the fifties. What they actually patented was a method of manufacture not the design. This section currently gives the impression that the square academic cap dates back only half century. This clearly ignores its origins from the Toque? The current design represents the flattened medieval toque, and one that is similar to those still worn by the judges in France and Germany and other European countries. In that respects, it is a flattened chef's hat, made stiff with a board inside it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.4.172 ( talk) 18:19, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
It is interesting that the academic cap is a square. If we take the side to be of 1 unit length, then the diagonal is irrational, i.e. √2, to the dismay of the Pythagoreans. I like to think of the squareness of the cap as suggesting that rational thinking may lead to the discovery that not everything is rational, or that rational thinking is not always complete:
The story behind no caps at Newcastle, according to the university itself, is due to celebrating graduates chucking their caps into the Tyne when it became an independent uni in 1963 [1] I've never heard it down to the admission of women to the uni, indeed women were admitted way before 1963 [2]
Thus, I believe Newcastle should be removed from that small group listed. 82.33.170.54 ( talk) 14:42, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
References
In Ireland, when I was at my graduation, they didn't give me one telling me only women wear them if they want. Why is this, please someone tell me and is it just in Ireland? Ireland, having abandoned its culture long ago, normally slavishly copies everything in England, so is this the same in England/the UK? I've looked online and found no explanation and only some forum posts from Irish people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.171.46.72 ( talk) 12:40, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
Given my peers in the University of London have formed a study group https://www.burgon.org.uk/about-us/history-of-the-burgon-society/ and that the individuals behind change are influential in it, might it not be too much to suggest some liaison with them might be useful? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.213.9.109 ( talk) 03:17, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Given the UK military were extremely influential in academia 1914-1968, it might be worth mentioning a standard practice, that Officers remove headgear, weapons, belts and similar harness on entering the Mess, with the sole exception of the Duty Officer, who can be identified by his full uniform: he's ready instantly. This may be a glorious red herring, but it sheds a light on the indoors-outdoors reference. Female officers also respect this need, so an Other Ranks necessarily incurring into the Mess can rapidly extract the right guy to handle any crisis, however, before the days of egalitarianism, the ladies were free to do as they would, on such occasions as they were invited in (and the Colonel's and Adjutant's were in any case unofficially part of the welfare system, so were part of the family). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.213.9.109 ( talk) 03:29, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Two academic institutions have uniforms dating from Tudor times or earlier, Christ's Hospital School and Cambridge University. Neither incorporate the mortar board. I cite these as they predate speculative freemasonry, as well as the US. The argument that it may have roots in American speculative masonry's possible, given the presence of the other tools, trowel, square and level, in their rituals, but contradicted by the RC Patent, unless it was an attempt at interdiction of the symbolism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.213.9.109 ( talk) 04:32, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
The article lacks explanation why the mortarboard appeared in academic environments in the first place. I speculate that it was a mediaeval borrowing from the Catholic clergy and related to academics all being clerics. Theology being a necessary precursory step for graduation. BUT I do not know if this religious-scholarly link is right. Also this would go back how far? To which universities or disciplines? Or even degree? Particular religious tradition - catholic or protestant?
This would also explain the wearing or not in doors as related to practices in religion - Christianity / churches. As there are university ordinances on this matter there should be sources. I think it should be linked with graduation caps as found in Scandinavia and also places that have no dress e.g. Austria - as it is a republic all references to court dress were removed. Ireland - is this due to some religious reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.31.26 ( talk) 05:12, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
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What about the Chinese mortarboard-style cap worn by emperors (see Huang Di or Qin Shi Huang)? -- Dpr 04:08, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
You are referring to the Chinese emperor's mian (冕) which has nothing whatsoever to do with the Western mortarboard or academia. The ancient Chinese version of the mortarboard is the si-fang pingding jin (四方平定巾). -- Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 21:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I just made a new page called Mortar Board (honor society). I think there should be a disambiguation page, but I do not know how to make one yet.
Mortarboard is a solecism. This is an academic cap, as in cap and gown. Charles Matthews 17:39, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
We have two claims I am not sure are compatible:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=mortar has mortier in the etymology, so it's just possible that both are right, but I am unsure. Does anyone know? — Vivacissamamente 05:08, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
~
I looked around the internet and found that the statement "from the French mortier, a type of toque" is irrelevant because "mortier" in french means mortar (the bricklaying kind.) I think It should be changed to something about mortar and not a french word (but im not skilled enough to modify it :P)
Details regarding the tassel ought to be mentioned here; where they came from, symbolism, and traditions (such as moving the tassel from one side to the other upon receiving one's diploma). ProhibitOnions 23:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I have a question regarding this phrase and the tassel: "In some ceremonies, the student wears the tassel on the right up until reception of the diploma, at which point it is switched to the left." During both my high school and bachelor's degree ceremonies, we wore them on the left until the reception of the diploma, and then it was switched to the right. Do you think this should be edited to simply say "In some ceremonies, the student wears the tassel on one side up until reception of the diploma, at which point it is switched to the other." ? Or are my schools just among the minority? Pike 21:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Is there no connection with Freemasonry, this is where I understood it came from, the gown also having occult overtones —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.211.130 ( talk) 07:02, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
The article states that the mortaboards may have been influenced by practices in Islamic madrassas. Apart from the fact that at a guess I would say this is highly unlikely - as far as I know it is more an 18th/19th century phenomenon to adopt oriental-style clothing - the source in the footnote leads to a NEWSPAPER article in the NEW YORK TIMES (not the Herald Tribune), which doesn't mention mortaboards at all. Could anybody plz correct this? (I am not a native speaker of English and didn't want to do it). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.142.254.63 ( talk) 07:58, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I find the removal of this content highly questionable. It was tagged "failed verification" when the source clearly supports the statement. Now the content has been removed multiple times - despite being sourced to a NYT editorial - without removing all the unsourced and questionable content in this article. That strongly suggests bias. I will be restoring this material unless a clear and convincing reason not to is provided soon. Gimmetoo ( talk) 12:47, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
I've commented out this sentence and the accompanying NYT reference, pending further discussion here. The link to Islamic madrassas sounds highly unlikely to me, and none of the main historical sources on academic dress (eg A History of Academical Dress in Europe by William Hargreaves-Mawdsley) contain any evidence for such a link. On its own, I'm really not convinced that a single sentence in a newspaper opinion piece is sufficient justification. The article says "Our mortarboards, tassels, academic robes and rituals of the oral defense of a written thesis can all be traced back to them". But this is all wrong: as far as I can see nobody has traced any of this back to Islamic madrassas. In fact, there's a wealth of historical evidence (see Hargreaves-Mawdsley or one of the other books on the subject) to demonstrate that academic dress instead derives from mediaeval European monastic robes (in particular the supertunica, habit and hood). The oral examination also dates back to mediaeval European universities - in order to attain a particular status (or "degree") within the university, the candidate would have to submit to a public examination in which they argued in support of their thesis. I know it's in a reputable newspaper (it's not the Daily Mail, after all) but in this case I think the writer has got it wrong, and I'd prefer it if this assertion could be supported by at least one additional, independent source - preferably one that backs up their assertion with some sort of evidence. -- Nicholas Jackson ( talk) 12:49, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
Dalrymple's article also appeared in Interreligious Insight (2006). It says "even mortar boards, tassels, and academic robes, can all be traced back to the practices of madrasas". The author appears to be William Dalrymple (historian), so the idea could simply be attributed to him. The sourcing seems more than enough to support what the article here said: "may have been influenced by". Gimmetoo ( talk) 01:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
In The Rise of Colleges: Institutions of Learning in Islam and the West, George Makdisi has demonstrated how terms such as having “fellows” holding a “chair,” or students “reading” a subject and obtaining “degrees,” as well as practices such as inaugural lectures, the oral defense, even mortar boards, tassels, and academic robes, can all be traced back to the practices of madrasas.
The Islamic theologian Afifi al-Akiti has claimed that the shape of the mortarboard can be traced to a ceremony in mediaeval Islamic madrassas, (citation to Emel article) but this suggestion has not found acceptance among historians of academic dress, and al-Akiti himself has provided no concrete evidence of a causal connection.
I appreciate all the effort that has gone into finding a compromise acceptable to all, but surely this still gives undue prominence to a non-subject; it gives coverage to something that doesn't actually exist. -- Old Moonraker ( talk) 12:44, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
The ICRD repeats the claim because they've copied it verbatim from Dalrymple's article (they cite it as the source for that segment), which we've already established is incorrect in citing Makdisi's book, so that's irrelevant. You say "the IHT/NYT column shows the idea in journalism", but that doesn't matter - lots of ideas turn up in journalism but have no place in a factual encyclopaedia, and the policy WP:RS supports this.
I'm not disputing that al-Akiti is known to have this view, I just haven't seen even the slightest indication that he's ever provided any proper historical evidence for his claim - the only thing any of us have been able to find is that brief segment on Youtube where he draws somewhat clumsy parallels between a ceremony of placing the Koran on a student's head, and the shape of the mortarboard. A Google Scholar search turns up no publications by al-Akiti which appear to relate to this matter. What would you accept as proof of this lack of evidence? I also disagree that "has not found acceptance" is synonymous with "has been actively rejected", but what would be your preferred phrasing?
I'd rather this hypothesis were just excised from the article entirely, to be honest - it's a fringe idea with, as far as we can tell, one proponent who's provided no supporting evidence that anyone can find, and one who only mentions it tangentially (and is demonstrably mistaken in doing so). Earlier on, you asked me why I was so desperate to suppress this idea, so let me ask you the dual question: why are you so adamant that it be included? -- Nicholas Jackson ( talk) 00:42, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
@ Nicholas Jackson: (Feel free to ping others involved in the discussion who are still active in Wikipedia.) The issue of the possibly Islamic origin of the academic cap + tassle has come up on social media, apparently sourced to baytalfann, which mentions Islam in Europe by Jack Goody, a Cambridge social anthropologist who, per Wikipedia, died in 2015 and wrote that book in 2004. So he can't be emailed to ask about his source, but in principle he might have given sources in his book. In the discussion over at Academic dress, a one-edit-only user referred to Goody with a quote, but no source. If you have access to Islam in Europe, it's probably worth checking: was it a throwaway comment that he thought was already well established and didn't need a source, or did he find evidence himself? Boud ( talk) 09:33, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
"It is also often termed a square, trencher, or corner-cap in the UK and Australia..."
Hmm. In Australia, possibly. However, I'm English and middle-aged (therefore not too young to have come across archaic idiom), and I've never, ever heard any of these alternatives to 'mortarboard' before. Please could someone add a citation for this odd assertion? Blitterbug ( talk) 00:33, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
The usual black mortarboard cap, tassel, and gown are part of the high schol grad ceremony in Canada, too, a fact that should be included. You can look at any pix in Canadian high school yearbooks and newspapers. I should know since I'm Canadian. The Stacy DeSousa picture is more obvious proof.-- 76.69.192.232 ( talk) 18:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Most odd dress-items have some earlier 'function' (think: lapels, tricornes). These caps are always worn with hoods, even if the hoods are not nowadays raised. So might a mortier originally have been a (hidden) framework to allow a French magistrate to look around, even though his hood was up to prevent draughts? The hood might slip off, with too much shaking of the head - how about a cord (or ribbons) on top to secure the cap to the hood? Pure speculation, and thus unworthy of this forum. 81.157.12.38 ( talk) 15:08, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
There should be a section on the color of tassels worn by faculty at the graduation ceremony. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.102.172 ( talk) 04:26, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks to all the patient editors for fixing my over-enthusiastic vandalism repairs. Original, vandalised version was here, fixed in this edit, but I hadn't noticed. -- Old Moonraker ( talk) 05:32, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Is any citation at the end of the section really needed? The tradition of self-made caps is spread among academics and well-known. There is, however, no "do it yourself"-manual or any to refer to. Many groups post photos of caps on their webpages, but citing (all of) them - I believe - would not benefit the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.91.163.157 ( talk) 14:25, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Currently there is one paragraph stating some yanks patented the mortar board in the fifties. What they actually patented was a method of manufacture not the design. This section currently gives the impression that the square academic cap dates back only half century. This clearly ignores its origins from the Toque? The current design represents the flattened medieval toque, and one that is similar to those still worn by the judges in France and Germany and other European countries. In that respects, it is a flattened chef's hat, made stiff with a board inside it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.4.172 ( talk) 18:19, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
It is interesting that the academic cap is a square. If we take the side to be of 1 unit length, then the diagonal is irrational, i.e. √2, to the dismay of the Pythagoreans. I like to think of the squareness of the cap as suggesting that rational thinking may lead to the discovery that not everything is rational, or that rational thinking is not always complete:
The story behind no caps at Newcastle, according to the university itself, is due to celebrating graduates chucking their caps into the Tyne when it became an independent uni in 1963 [1] I've never heard it down to the admission of women to the uni, indeed women were admitted way before 1963 [2]
Thus, I believe Newcastle should be removed from that small group listed. 82.33.170.54 ( talk) 14:42, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
References
In Ireland, when I was at my graduation, they didn't give me one telling me only women wear them if they want. Why is this, please someone tell me and is it just in Ireland? Ireland, having abandoned its culture long ago, normally slavishly copies everything in England, so is this the same in England/the UK? I've looked online and found no explanation and only some forum posts from Irish people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.171.46.72 ( talk) 12:40, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
Given my peers in the University of London have formed a study group https://www.burgon.org.uk/about-us/history-of-the-burgon-society/ and that the individuals behind change are influential in it, might it not be too much to suggest some liaison with them might be useful? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.213.9.109 ( talk) 03:17, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Given the UK military were extremely influential in academia 1914-1968, it might be worth mentioning a standard practice, that Officers remove headgear, weapons, belts and similar harness on entering the Mess, with the sole exception of the Duty Officer, who can be identified by his full uniform: he's ready instantly. This may be a glorious red herring, but it sheds a light on the indoors-outdoors reference. Female officers also respect this need, so an Other Ranks necessarily incurring into the Mess can rapidly extract the right guy to handle any crisis, however, before the days of egalitarianism, the ladies were free to do as they would, on such occasions as they were invited in (and the Colonel's and Adjutant's were in any case unofficially part of the welfare system, so were part of the family). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.213.9.109 ( talk) 03:29, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Two academic institutions have uniforms dating from Tudor times or earlier, Christ's Hospital School and Cambridge University. Neither incorporate the mortar board. I cite these as they predate speculative freemasonry, as well as the US. The argument that it may have roots in American speculative masonry's possible, given the presence of the other tools, trowel, square and level, in their rituals, but contradicted by the RC Patent, unless it was an attempt at interdiction of the symbolism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.213.9.109 ( talk) 04:32, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
The article lacks explanation why the mortarboard appeared in academic environments in the first place. I speculate that it was a mediaeval borrowing from the Catholic clergy and related to academics all being clerics. Theology being a necessary precursory step for graduation. BUT I do not know if this religious-scholarly link is right. Also this would go back how far? To which universities or disciplines? Or even degree? Particular religious tradition - catholic or protestant?
This would also explain the wearing or not in doors as related to practices in religion - Christianity / churches. As there are university ordinances on this matter there should be sources. I think it should be linked with graduation caps as found in Scandinavia and also places that have no dress e.g. Austria - as it is a republic all references to court dress were removed. Ireland - is this due to some religious reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.31.26 ( talk) 05:12, 3 February 2022 (UTC)