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This is arguably the most notable and integrated of the chiropractic sub-specialties hence this section. I strive for it to be an extremely high quality article that provides the best information with respect to chiropractic sports medicine. I hope that contributors will strive to bring the appropriate high quality citations (peer-reviewed when discussing a specific medical claim). Additional sections to be included, over time include:
Any other suggestions to make this article a model are of course welcome. Cheers. CorticoSpinal ( talk) 17:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
This is a real good beginning. TheDoctorIsIn ( talk) 23:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
"Sports medicine core focus of treating athletes and promoting exercise which has also has considerable overlap with musculoskeletal medicine." Why do we have this statement? The musculoskeletal medicine referred to in the source is practiced by medical practitioners (MBBS - Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery), and is contrasted against sports medicine. Neither of these are on topic for Sports Chiropractic. DigitalC ( talk) 02:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Chiropractors, along with other non-traditional physicians, such as nurse practitioners are increasingly seeing their scope of practice augmented to carry out screening examinations on high school students engaged in organized competitive sports.</<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href=" http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User:Lupin/navpop.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css&dontcountme=s"
The source cited doesn't support this complete thought. The source DOES support the fact that chiropractors are used more in cardiovascular screening (and presumably other activities, though that is not stated by the source), but the wording of the sentence seems to imply the opposite of what is implied in the paper. Chiropractors are the smallest percentage of non-traditional health care providers in the paper (see figure 2), and the only classification of health care providers to not see a statistically significant increase. This sentence, then, should probably be removed or reworded. Protonk ( talk) 08:21, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
The source cited for this is also very thin. Pelletier, JC. "Sports related concussion and spinal injuries: the need for changing spearing rules at the National Capital Amateur Football Association (NCAFA).". J Can Chiropr Assoc. '50' (3): 195-208..
ISSN
17549157.
This is an article that mentions chiropractors once at the introduction and once in the conclusion. The meat of the article is a discussion of the health effects of "spearing", a tackling practice banned in the US but not (at the time of printing) in Canada. Where the author mentions chiropractors it seems to be more of an exhortation than an illustration.
he chiropractic profession ought to become directly engaged in all aspects of sports injuries and actively help developing systems by which it can be recognized as a core participant within the sports medicine world.
Chiropractors can advise players, in lay terms, to practice the best techniques in order to reduce risks of
serious injury.
that's from page 11, the last page (not including references). I didn't include a sentence in the abstract, which basically says the same thing. There has to be a stronger source than this on to support the claim that chiropractors would serve to prevent spinal injury. Protonk ( talk) 08:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
[1] is a good source, but the text in this section is confusing. The text leaves the matter unclear as to the future role/limitation/etc for chiropractors. the source is rather more clear. This source can and probably should provide some more support for other sections of this article, as it is basically the scholarly equivalent of this article--a survey of the profession. specifically, the athlete-centered format for care needs to be a separate section, as it is one of the critical distinctions between the type of care offered by non-traditional medicine and traditional medicine.
Be careful when excerpting the article, as portions are interviews with subject and can vary wildly in tone. Protonk ( talk) 09:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Jefffire recently made 5 consecutive edits (none of which I believe improve the article)
Pre The focus of chiropractic sports specialists is to provide expert care in the conservative management, rehabilitation and performance optimization of neuromusculoskeletal system for elite athletic populations and to participate in a multi-disciplinary sports injury care environment.
Post The sports chiropractors apply chiropractic treatments to sports people.
Question
Is this the kind of editing practices we're going to develop here? I think it's time we call a spade a spade. The vehement opposition from righteous skeptics such as Jefffire is because they treat Chiropractic medicine like a fringe movement; something equal to Flat Earth or AIDS reappraisal. This is not an accurate, reliable nor valid position based on the scientific literature. To have a core group (I've counted 6-7 so far) of skeptical editors to overrule the body of scientific research the validates that chiropractic is as mainstream and integrated as ever disrupts not only chiropractic, it's disrupts all of CAM and all of Wikipedia. We need to have a ArbCommitee have a RfC on CAM subjects and topics and come up with a better system than dealing with nonsense like this.
Here's the biggest slap in the face of them all:
Pre (with source attached)
Sports chiropractors have made contributions to protective gear and trauma management in contact sports, athletic health maintenance, therapy, and enhanced rehabilitation after injury. [1]S pinal injury prevention has been identified as a role that sports chiropractors play. [2]
Two high quality, verifiable, reliable sources (the book is published by McGraw Hill, Jefffire, in case you didn't notice. What does your edit summary say though? That is not a RS for that claim. How f*&ked is that! This absurd treatment of chiropractic like fringe.
Now, here is clearly overboard. Jefffire actually takes a direct statement from the cited source which is relevant to the topic, scope of practice:
Non-traditional health care professionals, such as nurse practitioners and chiropractors are increasingly seeing their scope of practice augmented to carry out screening examinations on high school students engaged in organized competitive sports.
A 2007 study reported "...states that permit practitioners with little or no cardiovascular training (such as chiropractors or naturopathic practitioners) to provide medical clearance of high school athletes increased from 11 (22%) in 1997 to 18 (35%) in 2005".
...and replaced it with this, a non-sequitur that deliberately portrays the POV 'weaknesses' of CAM professionals when we are talking about scope of practice. It's these little civil POV pushing things and deliberate, malfeasant edits that provokes needless edit wars and tension for no good reason. Jefffire, these edits weaken the wikipedia project and causes needless tension. Please stop.
Yet the source is from a medical journal who is passing a POV on the [DC and RN] professions whereas the original edit represent a factual statement. Shall I deconstruct your obtuse and highly inappropriate edits (especially given the tense situation on CAM articles) and let you explain yourself? I'm going to go make the minor tweaks and restore the cited material you've deleted. That's a no-no; and you know better, or you should by now. CorticoSpinal ( talk) 05:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
In 2005 (compared with 1997), a greater number of nonphysician examiners were sanctioned by states to perform preparticipation sports examinations and provide medical clearance for high school athletes. Over this 8-year period, the proportion of states allowing nurse practitioners (21 to 37) or physician assistants (21 to 35) to perform such clearance examinations increased significantly (p <0.01; Figure 2). Furthermore, states that permit practitioners with little or no cardiovascular training (such as chiropractors or naturopathic practitioners) to provide medical clearance of high school athletes increased from 11 (22%) in 1997 to 18 (35%) in 2005 (Figure 2). In addition, 3 states (Montana, Nebraska, and Minnesota) permit any licensed practitioner to conduct medical clearance examinations, while 3 other states (California, Hawaii, and Vermont) allow high schools to decide who may perform examinations, thereby potentially increasing the number of states using chiropractors to 24.
Oh, and the book looked like a piece of garbage. Big-ass font and the authors adding their titles on the front page (yeah, that classic howler). That's just superficial stuff, what's important is that you cannot expect such a partisan book to neutrally report on issues. If chiropractors have helped design saftey equipment then quote a saftey equipment book, not a chiropractic one. Jefffire ( talk) 06:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
It seems like the section has been deliberately tanked. I'll leave it alone for today, but it seems like someone's trying to make a point. CorticoSpinal ( talk) 07:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Are there other sources for this? I'm not arguing that the two sources there are not true, but there should be some more independence from the subject. Both appear to be chiropractic related websites. Maybe the personal pages of the subjects? Protonk ( talk) 00:59, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
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I have just modified one external link on Sports chiropractic. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 22:28, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
2001:56a:75b7:9b00:9182:29b3:54cb:59bd: I re-reverted your recent
unrevert of this statement: and appointed
Mike Reed as the medical director of the US team.
citation needed
dubious –
discuss
and I might have accidentally messed up the link to your IP address in the edit summary, so I'm posting here to make sure you get a ping. Please re-add the material after you've "fixed the spurious claim" by adding a source, but not before. Per
WP:BLPCITE, "All unsourced and poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed from articles and talk pages immediately." Who is Mike Reed? Where did that information come from? I don't care if that statement is in there with a source.
PermStrump
(talk)
17:08, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Mike Reed chiropractor olympics
on my work's database and filtered for peer reviewed journals, there was only one hit, Shawn Day (2010) in Chiropractic History
[7]. This is what it says reference to the 2008 Olympics (my emphasis): "In 2008, the four chiropractors were Mike Reed (also one of the heads of the USOC Sports Performance Division and possibly the head of the medical staff)..." The 2007 BOD meeting minutes of the U.S. Bobsled & Skeleton Federation refer to Reed as a volunteer coordinator for medical staff. (WP won't let me link to the URL b/c it's a PDF with a 'google.com/url?' which is apparently blacklisted, but you can find it by googling USBSF meeting minutes 2007 "mike reed"
). Team USA's
website still lists the staff from the Sochi 2014 Games and only MDs and DOs were given the job title, "medical director." They're using the title
"managing director, Sports Medicine Division" for the chiropractor that I assume holds the same position Reed had. Obviously the title could have changed, but I haven't seen any evidence of that in RS that's independent of the subject. In fact, the one peer reviewed source (Day 2010) that does mention Reed at the 2008 Games, cited an ACA newsletter as the source and the newsletter did call Reed the medical director, but Day, writing for Chiropractic History, clearly doubted the accuracy of that statement, probably for the same reason I tagged it as dubious from the beginning... I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the US for any profession other than a licensed medical doctor or doctor of osteopathy to use the title "medical director." I'm pretty sure
nurse practitioners and and
physician's assistants wouldn't even be allowed to use that title.
PermStrump
(talk)
20:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
I couldn't figure out which thread the talkpage references corresponded to or if they were from multiple threads and they always bug me, so I'm collapsing them to get them out of the way.
Talkrefs
|
---|
References
|
This article was nominated for deletion on 15:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
This is arguably the most notable and integrated of the chiropractic sub-specialties hence this section. I strive for it to be an extremely high quality article that provides the best information with respect to chiropractic sports medicine. I hope that contributors will strive to bring the appropriate high quality citations (peer-reviewed when discussing a specific medical claim). Additional sections to be included, over time include:
Any other suggestions to make this article a model are of course welcome. Cheers. CorticoSpinal ( talk) 17:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
This is a real good beginning. TheDoctorIsIn ( talk) 23:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
"Sports medicine core focus of treating athletes and promoting exercise which has also has considerable overlap with musculoskeletal medicine." Why do we have this statement? The musculoskeletal medicine referred to in the source is practiced by medical practitioners (MBBS - Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery), and is contrasted against sports medicine. Neither of these are on topic for Sports Chiropractic. DigitalC ( talk) 02:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Chiropractors, along with other non-traditional physicians, such as nurse practitioners are increasingly seeing their scope of practice augmented to carry out screening examinations on high school students engaged in organized competitive sports.</<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href=" http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User:Lupin/navpop.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css&dontcountme=s"
The source cited doesn't support this complete thought. The source DOES support the fact that chiropractors are used more in cardiovascular screening (and presumably other activities, though that is not stated by the source), but the wording of the sentence seems to imply the opposite of what is implied in the paper. Chiropractors are the smallest percentage of non-traditional health care providers in the paper (see figure 2), and the only classification of health care providers to not see a statistically significant increase. This sentence, then, should probably be removed or reworded. Protonk ( talk) 08:21, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
The source cited for this is also very thin. Pelletier, JC. "Sports related concussion and spinal injuries: the need for changing spearing rules at the National Capital Amateur Football Association (NCAFA).". J Can Chiropr Assoc. '50' (3): 195-208..
ISSN
17549157.
This is an article that mentions chiropractors once at the introduction and once in the conclusion. The meat of the article is a discussion of the health effects of "spearing", a tackling practice banned in the US but not (at the time of printing) in Canada. Where the author mentions chiropractors it seems to be more of an exhortation than an illustration.
he chiropractic profession ought to become directly engaged in all aspects of sports injuries and actively help developing systems by which it can be recognized as a core participant within the sports medicine world.
Chiropractors can advise players, in lay terms, to practice the best techniques in order to reduce risks of
serious injury.
that's from page 11, the last page (not including references). I didn't include a sentence in the abstract, which basically says the same thing. There has to be a stronger source than this on to support the claim that chiropractors would serve to prevent spinal injury. Protonk ( talk) 08:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
[1] is a good source, but the text in this section is confusing. The text leaves the matter unclear as to the future role/limitation/etc for chiropractors. the source is rather more clear. This source can and probably should provide some more support for other sections of this article, as it is basically the scholarly equivalent of this article--a survey of the profession. specifically, the athlete-centered format for care needs to be a separate section, as it is one of the critical distinctions between the type of care offered by non-traditional medicine and traditional medicine.
Be careful when excerpting the article, as portions are interviews with subject and can vary wildly in tone. Protonk ( talk) 09:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Jefffire recently made 5 consecutive edits (none of which I believe improve the article)
Pre The focus of chiropractic sports specialists is to provide expert care in the conservative management, rehabilitation and performance optimization of neuromusculoskeletal system for elite athletic populations and to participate in a multi-disciplinary sports injury care environment.
Post The sports chiropractors apply chiropractic treatments to sports people.
Question
Is this the kind of editing practices we're going to develop here? I think it's time we call a spade a spade. The vehement opposition from righteous skeptics such as Jefffire is because they treat Chiropractic medicine like a fringe movement; something equal to Flat Earth or AIDS reappraisal. This is not an accurate, reliable nor valid position based on the scientific literature. To have a core group (I've counted 6-7 so far) of skeptical editors to overrule the body of scientific research the validates that chiropractic is as mainstream and integrated as ever disrupts not only chiropractic, it's disrupts all of CAM and all of Wikipedia. We need to have a ArbCommitee have a RfC on CAM subjects and topics and come up with a better system than dealing with nonsense like this.
Here's the biggest slap in the face of them all:
Pre (with source attached)
Sports chiropractors have made contributions to protective gear and trauma management in contact sports, athletic health maintenance, therapy, and enhanced rehabilitation after injury. [1]S pinal injury prevention has been identified as a role that sports chiropractors play. [2]
Two high quality, verifiable, reliable sources (the book is published by McGraw Hill, Jefffire, in case you didn't notice. What does your edit summary say though? That is not a RS for that claim. How f*&ked is that! This absurd treatment of chiropractic like fringe.
Now, here is clearly overboard. Jefffire actually takes a direct statement from the cited source which is relevant to the topic, scope of practice:
Non-traditional health care professionals, such as nurse practitioners and chiropractors are increasingly seeing their scope of practice augmented to carry out screening examinations on high school students engaged in organized competitive sports.
A 2007 study reported "...states that permit practitioners with little or no cardiovascular training (such as chiropractors or naturopathic practitioners) to provide medical clearance of high school athletes increased from 11 (22%) in 1997 to 18 (35%) in 2005".
...and replaced it with this, a non-sequitur that deliberately portrays the POV 'weaknesses' of CAM professionals when we are talking about scope of practice. It's these little civil POV pushing things and deliberate, malfeasant edits that provokes needless edit wars and tension for no good reason. Jefffire, these edits weaken the wikipedia project and causes needless tension. Please stop.
Yet the source is from a medical journal who is passing a POV on the [DC and RN] professions whereas the original edit represent a factual statement. Shall I deconstruct your obtuse and highly inappropriate edits (especially given the tense situation on CAM articles) and let you explain yourself? I'm going to go make the minor tweaks and restore the cited material you've deleted. That's a no-no; and you know better, or you should by now. CorticoSpinal ( talk) 05:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
In 2005 (compared with 1997), a greater number of nonphysician examiners were sanctioned by states to perform preparticipation sports examinations and provide medical clearance for high school athletes. Over this 8-year period, the proportion of states allowing nurse practitioners (21 to 37) or physician assistants (21 to 35) to perform such clearance examinations increased significantly (p <0.01; Figure 2). Furthermore, states that permit practitioners with little or no cardiovascular training (such as chiropractors or naturopathic practitioners) to provide medical clearance of high school athletes increased from 11 (22%) in 1997 to 18 (35%) in 2005 (Figure 2). In addition, 3 states (Montana, Nebraska, and Minnesota) permit any licensed practitioner to conduct medical clearance examinations, while 3 other states (California, Hawaii, and Vermont) allow high schools to decide who may perform examinations, thereby potentially increasing the number of states using chiropractors to 24.
Oh, and the book looked like a piece of garbage. Big-ass font and the authors adding their titles on the front page (yeah, that classic howler). That's just superficial stuff, what's important is that you cannot expect such a partisan book to neutrally report on issues. If chiropractors have helped design saftey equipment then quote a saftey equipment book, not a chiropractic one. Jefffire ( talk) 06:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
It seems like the section has been deliberately tanked. I'll leave it alone for today, but it seems like someone's trying to make a point. CorticoSpinal ( talk) 07:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Are there other sources for this? I'm not arguing that the two sources there are not true, but there should be some more independence from the subject. Both appear to be chiropractic related websites. Maybe the personal pages of the subjects? Protonk ( talk) 00:59, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Sports chiropractic. Please take a moment to review
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 18:43, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Sports chiropractic. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 22:28, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
2001:56a:75b7:9b00:9182:29b3:54cb:59bd: I re-reverted your recent
unrevert of this statement: and appointed
Mike Reed as the medical director of the US team.
citation needed
dubious –
discuss
and I might have accidentally messed up the link to your IP address in the edit summary, so I'm posting here to make sure you get a ping. Please re-add the material after you've "fixed the spurious claim" by adding a source, but not before. Per
WP:BLPCITE, "All unsourced and poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed from articles and talk pages immediately." Who is Mike Reed? Where did that information come from? I don't care if that statement is in there with a source.
PermStrump
(talk)
17:08, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Mike Reed chiropractor olympics
on my work's database and filtered for peer reviewed journals, there was only one hit, Shawn Day (2010) in Chiropractic History
[7]. This is what it says reference to the 2008 Olympics (my emphasis): "In 2008, the four chiropractors were Mike Reed (also one of the heads of the USOC Sports Performance Division and possibly the head of the medical staff)..." The 2007 BOD meeting minutes of the U.S. Bobsled & Skeleton Federation refer to Reed as a volunteer coordinator for medical staff. (WP won't let me link to the URL b/c it's a PDF with a 'google.com/url?' which is apparently blacklisted, but you can find it by googling USBSF meeting minutes 2007 "mike reed"
). Team USA's
website still lists the staff from the Sochi 2014 Games and only MDs and DOs were given the job title, "medical director." They're using the title
"managing director, Sports Medicine Division" for the chiropractor that I assume holds the same position Reed had. Obviously the title could have changed, but I haven't seen any evidence of that in RS that's independent of the subject. In fact, the one peer reviewed source (Day 2010) that does mention Reed at the 2008 Games, cited an ACA newsletter as the source and the newsletter did call Reed the medical director, but Day, writing for Chiropractic History, clearly doubted the accuracy of that statement, probably for the same reason I tagged it as dubious from the beginning... I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the US for any profession other than a licensed medical doctor or doctor of osteopathy to use the title "medical director." I'm pretty sure
nurse practitioners and and
physician's assistants wouldn't even be allowed to use that title.
PermStrump
(talk)
20:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
I couldn't figure out which thread the talkpage references corresponded to or if they were from multiple threads and they always bug me, so I'm collapsing them to get them out of the way.
Talkrefs
|
---|
References
|