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I put this on the spermatogenesis page too, and im pretty sure the chromosmal orientation in primary spermatocytes and secondary spermatocytes is incorrect as discussed in this topic. This is how I understand it, and I have some literature that also infers what I am saying.
Spermatogonia (2N)
(Mitosis)
Primary Spermatocytes (4N)
(Meiosis 1)
Secondary Spermatocytes (2N)
(Meiosis 2)
Spermatid & beyond (N)
This may look crazy at first but it makes way more sense. How can you go through meiosis 2 without halving the chromosome count?? This always perplexed me until i looked into it furhter and found literature on the subject. Here it is:
1)Kimura, Y. (1995). Development of Normal Mice from Oocytes Injected with Secondary Spermatocyte Nuclei (in: BIOLOGY OF REPRODUCTION 53, 855-862)
2)Ogura, A. (1998). Development of Normal Mice from Metaphase I Oocytes Fertilized with Primary Spermatocytes (in: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol. 95, No. 10 pp. 5611-5615)(first paragraph of abstract)
3)Mays-Hoopes, L.L. (1995). Preparation of Spermatogonia, Spermatocytes, and Round Spermatids for Analysis
of Gene Expression Using Fluorescence-Activated Cell Sorting. (in: BIOLOGY OF REPRODUCTION 53, 1003-1011)
4)This website lays it out pretty clear
http://www.expertreviews.org/01002320h.htm
Hope someone can address this...maybe i will if i dont get murdered Jimboapu ( talk) 04:02, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi everyone. User:Tatabox8 and myself are editing this article for a project. We have come up with an outline of our ideas on how to address and improve the article. By the end of the project, we are hoping to improve the article's quality status to B-class or above.
Spermatocyte Outline
Please let us know if you have any recommendations to add this list, or other improvements. Thanks! - Amanaresi ( talk) 20:19, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi! Looks like you're off to a good start with the spermatocyte article. I think you're outline that you propose on this talk page looks comprehensive and I look forward to seeing the article progress. Since this is the beginning of the article, there are still gaps which I'm sure you're planning on completing, per your proposed outline. :)
Most of the article contains in-line citations. Since this article is still at the beginning stages, there are only 7 references. As the article progress, I'm sure you'll add additional references. Will you also make sure that each reference has a link (if possible) so that I can click on it to take me to that reference?
I think the writing is good - it's unbiased. It's technical but I think most everyone will understand. Will you a little more information to the formation section? I don't know what the basal compartment or adluminal compartment is. Maybe adding a wikilink (if they exist) to those wikipedia pages would help?
The figures are good. Are there any figures to add to the mutations section? Maybe a picture of the Stra8 gene or the Mtap2 protein, if available?
Hope this helps! Magladem96 ( talk) 18:19, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Great introduction. I feel this will likely answer many people’s initial questions when they research this topic. I think the introduction would benefit from a few more sentences, though.
Overall, the article is a little short. I know you will continue working and lengthening it. Great work so far. I like that it is very accessible to someone unfamiliar with the subject. I also like that the information provided is clear and concise. There doesn’t need to be any fluff in an article like this.
I would love to see more information about spermatocyte formation. How is spermatocyte formation regulated by the endocrine system? How might endocrine system imbalances affect spermatocyte formation and function? What kinds of organisms have spermatocytes? Is there an alternative found in nature that accomplishes the same role as spermatocytes in organisms that don’t have them? Do worker bees and non-mating ants have spermatocytes?
Your Spermatocyte Outline ideas of the effects of spermatocyte failure, function/difference in species are great ideas. I would love to see more information on primary and secondary spermatocytes as well, even if there is not enough information for their own sections. What differentiates them and in what stages of Meiosis are they found? An infographic would accomplish this nicely.
The “See also” section is very relevant, and I though the infobox at the bottom is a nice addition to the article. You seem to be on top of your Wikilinks. The references provided are relevant to the article. I didn’t sense any of them followed the source articles too closely. I would encourage more sources. Great start! - PaleoBioJackie ( talk) 17:00, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi guys, great job so far. I have some suggestions for you that will hopefully help as you move forward. Let me know via email or on my talk page if you have any questions. Thanks!
Good start - you'll hear more on this later. Keilana| Parlez ici 23:53, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello all! It looks like you have been moving to the right direction! I particularly remember this article, as I used this article as my initial assessment project. I remember it being a very small article there had only one line written which contained the definition. The article did not cite any references, but it contained some random wikis. So I can definitely see the improvement! Great job! When reading the comments above, I can see some of the improvements you have made compared to your first contribution. While reading the improved article here are the comments/suggestions I have:
I hope this helps, and if I wasn't clear enough or if there is anything you have questions about, just let me know. Amontei2 ( talk) 22:03, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
I have added the reference to the sentence you mentioned that should have a citation. Initally, I wanted to put one there, but it was the same source as the first section sentences so, I did not reference it. We had feedback from one of the OA that we dont need to cite the same source twice in a row so, I edited our article not to reference sources back to back. I just message her to make sure if that applies to everything to double check. I'm glad you found our article is easy to understand. As for a section dedicated to primary and secondary spermatocytes there isn't just much informtion to talk about. much of the text I have read discuss the ploidy and just cell division mitosis and meiosis and I don't want to go into detail on that aspect because many may know the process already or can just click on the wikilink. I thought I would be able to find more material to add to the individual sections, but to find out there isn't much I could add. I will look into the composistion of a spermatocyte, but there will be variations upon different species perhaps I can make a wikitable if I can find information on multiple species. Thanks again for your time! Tatabox8 ( talk) 01:15, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
You guys have done a really great job on this article. It has a lot of good information, is well structured, sourced, and has some nice figures. The comments below are just my suggestions for a couple of ways it might be improved. Keep in mind that they are just suggestions, and if you disagree, or these conflict with other reviewers' suggestions, then do what you think is best.
Okay, that's all from me. Keep up the good work! Klortho ( talk) 16:58, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi everyone!
I really like what you have done with the article. I remember it only being a couple of sentences long with one picture. A couple of pointers:
Gkaltam ( talk) 19:49, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi!
First thing that I would like to note is that the page looks like it is coming along great and looks as though it is almost complete! One thing that I did note is that the page looks slightly short, as if it were missing a section or two. Inserting a history section may help or if there are differences seen in the development of Spermatocytes in different organisms, etc...
Also, reading through the page, the information presented is really great. However, there were some parts that I had to reread because it didn't seem to read well. For example, "In hermaphroditic C. elegans, sperm production occurs first and is stored in the spermatheca." This sentence could use a "then" inserted before or after the "is."
Finally, the images used are very helpful and relevant to the text. I think that the "Damage, repair, and failure" section (or the "Specific mutations" section) could also benefit from adding an image to it.
Cchandu1 ( talk) 04:10, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Your article seems to be in great shape. I really like the structure of the article and your figures are very helpful in outlining the material. You have also done a great job with wiki linking the more technical and complex topics. Here are a few minor suggestions to consider for further improvement.
Great work! I look forward to seeing your finished article. Richarnj ( talk) 01:52, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Cell | Type | Ploidy/ Chromosomes in human | DNA copy number/ Chromatids in human | Process entered by cell | Duration |
spermatogonium (types Ad, Ap and B) | germ cells | diploid (2N) / 46 | 2C / 46 | spermatocytogenesis ( Mitosis) | 16 days |
primary spermatocyte | male gametocyte | diploid (2N) / 46 | 4C / 2x46 | spermatocytogenesis ( Meiosis I ) | 24 days |
secondary spermatocytes | male gametocyte | haploid (N) / 23 | 2C / 46 | spermatidogenesis ( Meiosis II ) | A few hours |
spermatids | male gametid | haploid (N) / 23 | 1C / 23 | spermiogenesis | 24 days |
spermatozoids | sperm | haploid (N) / 23 | 1C / 23 | spermiation | 64 days (total) |
I had to look hard to find things that are wrong, so I suppose it is pretty good already. I won't repeat what was said above I hope!
I suspect that there is a lot more to the topic than is written here.
The more detailed part about C. elegans in the lede could go into a different section.
I could also be good to get information on humans such as how many of these cells are there? How big are they?
Things to link: ploidy Spo11 Dmc1= DMC1 (gene) kinase ATR can link to Ataxia telangiectasia and Rad3 related Atm to Ataxia telangiectasia mutated MSH5 double strand break signaling pathway; where you link infertility you can be more specific and link Male infertility.
Avoid statements like "the past two decades" as this will be out of date in the future, see WP:Dated, write something like 1990s and 2000s instead.
" hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis" -—– use of axis is strange to me, I assume that you mean the hormone chain.
preleptotene and leptotene need explanation.
Graeme Bartlett (
talk) 12:22, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
Overall this article is in great shape. It flows well and the content seems accurate since you have good references. I also liked that you have provided wikilinks for any term that could possibly need explaining. I think the pictures are very useful for an article such as this and you have just the right amount of them!
I would like to suggest a few things which may be able to make this article even better:
{{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help); Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: |edition=
has extra text (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)Hope you find the comments useful. Good job so far! Mmehta10 ( talk) 20:23, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I put this on the spermatogenesis page too, and im pretty sure the chromosmal orientation in primary spermatocytes and secondary spermatocytes is incorrect as discussed in this topic. This is how I understand it, and I have some literature that also infers what I am saying.
Spermatogonia (2N)
(Mitosis)
Primary Spermatocytes (4N)
(Meiosis 1)
Secondary Spermatocytes (2N)
(Meiosis 2)
Spermatid & beyond (N)
This may look crazy at first but it makes way more sense. How can you go through meiosis 2 without halving the chromosome count?? This always perplexed me until i looked into it furhter and found literature on the subject. Here it is:
1)Kimura, Y. (1995). Development of Normal Mice from Oocytes Injected with Secondary Spermatocyte Nuclei (in: BIOLOGY OF REPRODUCTION 53, 855-862)
2)Ogura, A. (1998). Development of Normal Mice from Metaphase I Oocytes Fertilized with Primary Spermatocytes (in: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol. 95, No. 10 pp. 5611-5615)(first paragraph of abstract)
3)Mays-Hoopes, L.L. (1995). Preparation of Spermatogonia, Spermatocytes, and Round Spermatids for Analysis
of Gene Expression Using Fluorescence-Activated Cell Sorting. (in: BIOLOGY OF REPRODUCTION 53, 1003-1011)
4)This website lays it out pretty clear
http://www.expertreviews.org/01002320h.htm
Hope someone can address this...maybe i will if i dont get murdered Jimboapu ( talk) 04:02, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi everyone. User:Tatabox8 and myself are editing this article for a project. We have come up with an outline of our ideas on how to address and improve the article. By the end of the project, we are hoping to improve the article's quality status to B-class or above.
Spermatocyte Outline
Please let us know if you have any recommendations to add this list, or other improvements. Thanks! - Amanaresi ( talk) 20:19, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi! Looks like you're off to a good start with the spermatocyte article. I think you're outline that you propose on this talk page looks comprehensive and I look forward to seeing the article progress. Since this is the beginning of the article, there are still gaps which I'm sure you're planning on completing, per your proposed outline. :)
Most of the article contains in-line citations. Since this article is still at the beginning stages, there are only 7 references. As the article progress, I'm sure you'll add additional references. Will you also make sure that each reference has a link (if possible) so that I can click on it to take me to that reference?
I think the writing is good - it's unbiased. It's technical but I think most everyone will understand. Will you a little more information to the formation section? I don't know what the basal compartment or adluminal compartment is. Maybe adding a wikilink (if they exist) to those wikipedia pages would help?
The figures are good. Are there any figures to add to the mutations section? Maybe a picture of the Stra8 gene or the Mtap2 protein, if available?
Hope this helps! Magladem96 ( talk) 18:19, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Great introduction. I feel this will likely answer many people’s initial questions when they research this topic. I think the introduction would benefit from a few more sentences, though.
Overall, the article is a little short. I know you will continue working and lengthening it. Great work so far. I like that it is very accessible to someone unfamiliar with the subject. I also like that the information provided is clear and concise. There doesn’t need to be any fluff in an article like this.
I would love to see more information about spermatocyte formation. How is spermatocyte formation regulated by the endocrine system? How might endocrine system imbalances affect spermatocyte formation and function? What kinds of organisms have spermatocytes? Is there an alternative found in nature that accomplishes the same role as spermatocytes in organisms that don’t have them? Do worker bees and non-mating ants have spermatocytes?
Your Spermatocyte Outline ideas of the effects of spermatocyte failure, function/difference in species are great ideas. I would love to see more information on primary and secondary spermatocytes as well, even if there is not enough information for their own sections. What differentiates them and in what stages of Meiosis are they found? An infographic would accomplish this nicely.
The “See also” section is very relevant, and I though the infobox at the bottom is a nice addition to the article. You seem to be on top of your Wikilinks. The references provided are relevant to the article. I didn’t sense any of them followed the source articles too closely. I would encourage more sources. Great start! - PaleoBioJackie ( talk) 17:00, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi guys, great job so far. I have some suggestions for you that will hopefully help as you move forward. Let me know via email or on my talk page if you have any questions. Thanks!
Good start - you'll hear more on this later. Keilana| Parlez ici 23:53, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello all! It looks like you have been moving to the right direction! I particularly remember this article, as I used this article as my initial assessment project. I remember it being a very small article there had only one line written which contained the definition. The article did not cite any references, but it contained some random wikis. So I can definitely see the improvement! Great job! When reading the comments above, I can see some of the improvements you have made compared to your first contribution. While reading the improved article here are the comments/suggestions I have:
I hope this helps, and if I wasn't clear enough or if there is anything you have questions about, just let me know. Amontei2 ( talk) 22:03, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
I have added the reference to the sentence you mentioned that should have a citation. Initally, I wanted to put one there, but it was the same source as the first section sentences so, I did not reference it. We had feedback from one of the OA that we dont need to cite the same source twice in a row so, I edited our article not to reference sources back to back. I just message her to make sure if that applies to everything to double check. I'm glad you found our article is easy to understand. As for a section dedicated to primary and secondary spermatocytes there isn't just much informtion to talk about. much of the text I have read discuss the ploidy and just cell division mitosis and meiosis and I don't want to go into detail on that aspect because many may know the process already or can just click on the wikilink. I thought I would be able to find more material to add to the individual sections, but to find out there isn't much I could add. I will look into the composistion of a spermatocyte, but there will be variations upon different species perhaps I can make a wikitable if I can find information on multiple species. Thanks again for your time! Tatabox8 ( talk) 01:15, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
You guys have done a really great job on this article. It has a lot of good information, is well structured, sourced, and has some nice figures. The comments below are just my suggestions for a couple of ways it might be improved. Keep in mind that they are just suggestions, and if you disagree, or these conflict with other reviewers' suggestions, then do what you think is best.
Okay, that's all from me. Keep up the good work! Klortho ( talk) 16:58, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi everyone!
I really like what you have done with the article. I remember it only being a couple of sentences long with one picture. A couple of pointers:
Gkaltam ( talk) 19:49, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi!
First thing that I would like to note is that the page looks like it is coming along great and looks as though it is almost complete! One thing that I did note is that the page looks slightly short, as if it were missing a section or two. Inserting a history section may help or if there are differences seen in the development of Spermatocytes in different organisms, etc...
Also, reading through the page, the information presented is really great. However, there were some parts that I had to reread because it didn't seem to read well. For example, "In hermaphroditic C. elegans, sperm production occurs first and is stored in the spermatheca." This sentence could use a "then" inserted before or after the "is."
Finally, the images used are very helpful and relevant to the text. I think that the "Damage, repair, and failure" section (or the "Specific mutations" section) could also benefit from adding an image to it.
Cchandu1 ( talk) 04:10, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Your article seems to be in great shape. I really like the structure of the article and your figures are very helpful in outlining the material. You have also done a great job with wiki linking the more technical and complex topics. Here are a few minor suggestions to consider for further improvement.
Great work! I look forward to seeing your finished article. Richarnj ( talk) 01:52, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Cell | Type | Ploidy/ Chromosomes in human | DNA copy number/ Chromatids in human | Process entered by cell | Duration |
spermatogonium (types Ad, Ap and B) | germ cells | diploid (2N) / 46 | 2C / 46 | spermatocytogenesis ( Mitosis) | 16 days |
primary spermatocyte | male gametocyte | diploid (2N) / 46 | 4C / 2x46 | spermatocytogenesis ( Meiosis I ) | 24 days |
secondary spermatocytes | male gametocyte | haploid (N) / 23 | 2C / 46 | spermatidogenesis ( Meiosis II ) | A few hours |
spermatids | male gametid | haploid (N) / 23 | 1C / 23 | spermiogenesis | 24 days |
spermatozoids | sperm | haploid (N) / 23 | 1C / 23 | spermiation | 64 days (total) |
I had to look hard to find things that are wrong, so I suppose it is pretty good already. I won't repeat what was said above I hope!
I suspect that there is a lot more to the topic than is written here.
The more detailed part about C. elegans in the lede could go into a different section.
I could also be good to get information on humans such as how many of these cells are there? How big are they?
Things to link: ploidy Spo11 Dmc1= DMC1 (gene) kinase ATR can link to Ataxia telangiectasia and Rad3 related Atm to Ataxia telangiectasia mutated MSH5 double strand break signaling pathway; where you link infertility you can be more specific and link Male infertility.
Avoid statements like "the past two decades" as this will be out of date in the future, see WP:Dated, write something like 1990s and 2000s instead.
" hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis" -—– use of axis is strange to me, I assume that you mean the hormone chain.
preleptotene and leptotene need explanation.
Graeme Bartlett (
talk) 12:22, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
Overall this article is in great shape. It flows well and the content seems accurate since you have good references. I also liked that you have provided wikilinks for any term that could possibly need explaining. I think the pictures are very useful for an article such as this and you have just the right amount of them!
I would like to suggest a few things which may be able to make this article even better:
{{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help); Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: |edition=
has extra text (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)Hope you find the comments useful. Good job so far! Mmehta10 ( talk) 20:23, 29 April 2014 (UTC)