![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 23 | Archive 24 | Archive 25 | Archive 26 |
@ Zefr and Roxy the dog: I wish you two guys had responded to my original Talk page post above rather than ignoring it and then arbitrarily reverting after I had tried to follow the wp:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle.
Zefr: You justify your second revert stating that Wikipedia needs to provide summarized content from WP:SCIRS reviews. Of my six most cited sources:
I would like to know which of these above sources fails WP:SCIRS?
Roxy the dog: What is "encyclopedic"? Is it an article like Introduction to the mathematics of general relativity which follows the forms of an encyclopedia article, but which, as I noted in my previous Talk page post, cannot realistically be used as a resource by anybody studying general relativity who wants help understanding a concept? I looked at that article and I didn't see how I could possibly rewrite it into anything useful. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog ( talk) 21:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
"Encyclopedic content" can be interpreted from several topics under WP:NOT: it is 1) not a dictionary for math derivations about spacetime; 2) not a math essay, forum, manual, or repository of calculations to interpret spacetime; 3) not a math journal or textbook, which states the "purpose of Wikipedia is to summarize accepted knowledge, not to teach subject matter" about math background for spacetime; and 4) WP:NOTEVERYTHING: "Information should not be included in this encyclopedia solely because it is true or useful. A Wikipedia article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details." These examples are the background for my reverts and edit summaries. An encyclopedia is to inform generally – which the article provided before such extensive math solutions were offered – not instruct in calculus unfamiliar to general users. There has been no show of support for your section by other editors. Your work may be better placed in the The Wikijournal of Science math section. Zefr ( talk) 16:35, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:53, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
This is an extremely important page, and while it has citations, there are many uncited assertions throughout this article. These need sources. GeogSage ( ⚔Chat?⚔) 06:42, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
I waited a week, but there has been no comment on my proposal to revert the lead to an earlier version. I have hence performed the wp:bold step of making the reversion. Let's see what sorts of responses that this action results in. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog ( talk) 15:08, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
References
I'm going to preference this by saying I'm not in the physics department, so I can't contribute much to the meat of this article. I care about this topic as it is important and underlies my work as a geographer, and think I can help offer suggestions and formatting as an editor.
First, I really think the changes made by @ Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog and @ Schlafly are a step in the right direction. I want to point everyone to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, which recommends "As a general rule of thumb, a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs and be carefully sourced as appropriate, although it is common for citations to appear in the body, and not the lead." The lead here is 5 chunks of text. I believe we can trim this tremendously without removing content through some reformatting.
First, I think some of the lead can be moved into the "Introduction" section. I think the Introduction section could be renamed, as the lead is technically an introduction (something I've just recently been made aware of). On the Geography, (while it does have a lead and an introduction), we have a "Core concepts" section. The page String theory has a section titled "Fundamentals" instead. Following this example, I renamed the introduction to "Fundamentals", and think we could create a "core concepts" section within it with many of the points currently in the lead.
Next, I think history should be moved into it's own section, as history is a bit beyond "introductory" level. I have made that change already. Building on that I think within history, just from looking at it, it can be broken up into subsections, roughly 1904 and before, Special relativity (1905 to 1915), and General relativity (After 1915). I think that the history section is seriously lacking though, as a quick reading would have me think that the history ended in 1916. As a non-physicist, I think that the experimental evidence since then is worth noting. I also think that some bit on String theory as a concept could be noted. I'm sure that a physicist could come up with several discoveries of note since 1916, and we can try to make that attempt. Expanding this is something I'm not well suited for, but it needs to be done.
Citations are of course still needed for a lot of the claims in this page, but I think these section changes are an improvement.
GeogSage ( ⚔Chat?⚔) 19:28, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 23 | Archive 24 | Archive 25 | Archive 26 |
@ Zefr and Roxy the dog: I wish you two guys had responded to my original Talk page post above rather than ignoring it and then arbitrarily reverting after I had tried to follow the wp:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle.
Zefr: You justify your second revert stating that Wikipedia needs to provide summarized content from WP:SCIRS reviews. Of my six most cited sources:
I would like to know which of these above sources fails WP:SCIRS?
Roxy the dog: What is "encyclopedic"? Is it an article like Introduction to the mathematics of general relativity which follows the forms of an encyclopedia article, but which, as I noted in my previous Talk page post, cannot realistically be used as a resource by anybody studying general relativity who wants help understanding a concept? I looked at that article and I didn't see how I could possibly rewrite it into anything useful. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog ( talk) 21:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
"Encyclopedic content" can be interpreted from several topics under WP:NOT: it is 1) not a dictionary for math derivations about spacetime; 2) not a math essay, forum, manual, or repository of calculations to interpret spacetime; 3) not a math journal or textbook, which states the "purpose of Wikipedia is to summarize accepted knowledge, not to teach subject matter" about math background for spacetime; and 4) WP:NOTEVERYTHING: "Information should not be included in this encyclopedia solely because it is true or useful. A Wikipedia article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details." These examples are the background for my reverts and edit summaries. An encyclopedia is to inform generally – which the article provided before such extensive math solutions were offered – not instruct in calculus unfamiliar to general users. There has been no show of support for your section by other editors. Your work may be better placed in the The Wikijournal of Science math section. Zefr ( talk) 16:35, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:53, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
This is an extremely important page, and while it has citations, there are many uncited assertions throughout this article. These need sources. GeogSage ( ⚔Chat?⚔) 06:42, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
I waited a week, but there has been no comment on my proposal to revert the lead to an earlier version. I have hence performed the wp:bold step of making the reversion. Let's see what sorts of responses that this action results in. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog ( talk) 15:08, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
References
I'm going to preference this by saying I'm not in the physics department, so I can't contribute much to the meat of this article. I care about this topic as it is important and underlies my work as a geographer, and think I can help offer suggestions and formatting as an editor.
First, I really think the changes made by @ Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog and @ Schlafly are a step in the right direction. I want to point everyone to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, which recommends "As a general rule of thumb, a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs and be carefully sourced as appropriate, although it is common for citations to appear in the body, and not the lead." The lead here is 5 chunks of text. I believe we can trim this tremendously without removing content through some reformatting.
First, I think some of the lead can be moved into the "Introduction" section. I think the Introduction section could be renamed, as the lead is technically an introduction (something I've just recently been made aware of). On the Geography, (while it does have a lead and an introduction), we have a "Core concepts" section. The page String theory has a section titled "Fundamentals" instead. Following this example, I renamed the introduction to "Fundamentals", and think we could create a "core concepts" section within it with many of the points currently in the lead.
Next, I think history should be moved into it's own section, as history is a bit beyond "introductory" level. I have made that change already. Building on that I think within history, just from looking at it, it can be broken up into subsections, roughly 1904 and before, Special relativity (1905 to 1915), and General relativity (After 1915). I think that the history section is seriously lacking though, as a quick reading would have me think that the history ended in 1916. As a non-physicist, I think that the experimental evidence since then is worth noting. I also think that some bit on String theory as a concept could be noted. I'm sure that a physicist could come up with several discoveries of note since 1916, and we can try to make that attempt. Expanding this is something I'm not well suited for, but it needs to be done.
Citations are of course still needed for a lot of the claims in this page, but I think these section changes are an improvement.
GeogSage ( ⚔Chat?⚔) 19:28, 2 July 2023 (UTC)