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http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=uuEsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VCEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4102,4064324&hl=en
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JDcyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=FOMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1116,806154&hl=en
Rajmaan ( talk) 18:38, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
whi is Ishaq beg this sounds like a south asian name — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iqy007 ( talk • contribs) 16:52, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
In January 2016 someone tagged the phrase "Soviet puppet" as of disputed neutrality, in the first sentence of the "Background section:
but without engaging on the talk page (or writing in the "reason=" tag of the template). Since the person didn't do this, I don't know what his point is, presumably one of these:
Since he didn't leave a note I have no idea which of these, alone or in combination, is in play. So let's drill down.
As to whether Sheng Shicai was a puppet, there's this from his article ( Sheng Shicai):
and this is sourced to to
followed by
sourced to
followed by
sourced to
Sounds like a puppet to me. I assume the sources exist and are accurately used unless someone is trolling us unusually deeply on an very obscure subject; nothing's impossible but I severely doubt it. But since I don't have the actual books I can't use those sources in this article. So tagging with a "citation needed" tag you could do...
So, he's a puppet, but can we use the term "puppet"? There are such things as puppets. Certainly "ally" give the wrong feeling of mutuality. I guess the term "client" is maybe better. It means more or less the same thing, kind of, and it sounds a little better mayben. It's a more obscure term and we're going to lose a few ESL readers and young readers ("puppet" is pretty much self-explanatory, "client" not so much (in most contexts it denotes a voluntary engagement of more-or-less equals)). Also, I think it's wrong, definitionally -- "clients" are states, and "client" is really short for "client state", so Sheng Shicai can't really be a client I don't think, except kinda-sorta as a synecdoche. But that's the price you pay I guess.
So I changed "puppet" to "client" and removed the tag hoping that this is the best solution. Herostratus ( talk) 21:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
By “Taiwan” I think you mean Kuomintang. Kaihsu ( talk) 15:21, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
In this event there were no whiteguards, as the former White Guards had already changed their citizenship and served the government of Sheng Shicai. – 2018-07-10T01:48:30 by anonymous IP user 109.239.219.49
The article is clearly not neutral and reflects only about the Chinese point of view. It is based not on documentary sources. In particular
1. The White Army does not exist since October 25, 1922. The white partisans surrendered on July 17, 1923. Yes, the emigrants worked in the French foreign legion, and in the armies of Manchukuo and the troops of the countries of the Chakka War, etc. But this is not the Whites!
2. The article is clearly not the correct name of the detachments that were never used in the Red Army.
3. According to Soviet data, the 6th motorized infantry regiment of Dzerzhinsky's division took part in the operation. And the Muslim battalions(ex Bekbashi) of the Central Asian Military District (Frunze). They did not suffer heavy losses. They lost three armored vehicles BA-I. But this is not seven thousand but 4800 people.
4. Bigade Bekteev formed in Kuldzha and when formed have only 200 cavalery solders. Then expanded to 1800. she is from the Russian immigrants, the former Whites. 1000 them from Manchukuo
5. The Kuomintang troops lost this war, and then they lied that they won, 80% of the province were controlled by the separatists, and this is not a defeat. Soviet troops left only when the retiring corps of the Kuomintang retreated. – 2018-07-10T07:35:39 by anonymous IP user 109.239.219.49
Seems the so-called “Whites” were these: zh:归化军. Kaihsu ( talk) 19:41, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Soviet invasion of Xinjiang article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that a photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=uuEsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VCEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4102,4064324&hl=en
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JDcyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=FOMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1116,806154&hl=en
Rajmaan ( talk) 18:38, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
whi is Ishaq beg this sounds like a south asian name — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iqy007 ( talk • contribs) 16:52, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
In January 2016 someone tagged the phrase "Soviet puppet" as of disputed neutrality, in the first sentence of the "Background section:
but without engaging on the talk page (or writing in the "reason=" tag of the template). Since the person didn't do this, I don't know what his point is, presumably one of these:
Since he didn't leave a note I have no idea which of these, alone or in combination, is in play. So let's drill down.
As to whether Sheng Shicai was a puppet, there's this from his article ( Sheng Shicai):
and this is sourced to to
followed by
sourced to
followed by
sourced to
Sounds like a puppet to me. I assume the sources exist and are accurately used unless someone is trolling us unusually deeply on an very obscure subject; nothing's impossible but I severely doubt it. But since I don't have the actual books I can't use those sources in this article. So tagging with a "citation needed" tag you could do...
So, he's a puppet, but can we use the term "puppet"? There are such things as puppets. Certainly "ally" give the wrong feeling of mutuality. I guess the term "client" is maybe better. It means more or less the same thing, kind of, and it sounds a little better mayben. It's a more obscure term and we're going to lose a few ESL readers and young readers ("puppet" is pretty much self-explanatory, "client" not so much (in most contexts it denotes a voluntary engagement of more-or-less equals)). Also, I think it's wrong, definitionally -- "clients" are states, and "client" is really short for "client state", so Sheng Shicai can't really be a client I don't think, except kinda-sorta as a synecdoche. But that's the price you pay I guess.
So I changed "puppet" to "client" and removed the tag hoping that this is the best solution. Herostratus ( talk) 21:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
By “Taiwan” I think you mean Kuomintang. Kaihsu ( talk) 15:21, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
In this event there were no whiteguards, as the former White Guards had already changed their citizenship and served the government of Sheng Shicai. – 2018-07-10T01:48:30 by anonymous IP user 109.239.219.49
The article is clearly not neutral and reflects only about the Chinese point of view. It is based not on documentary sources. In particular
1. The White Army does not exist since October 25, 1922. The white partisans surrendered on July 17, 1923. Yes, the emigrants worked in the French foreign legion, and in the armies of Manchukuo and the troops of the countries of the Chakka War, etc. But this is not the Whites!
2. The article is clearly not the correct name of the detachments that were never used in the Red Army.
3. According to Soviet data, the 6th motorized infantry regiment of Dzerzhinsky's division took part in the operation. And the Muslim battalions(ex Bekbashi) of the Central Asian Military District (Frunze). They did not suffer heavy losses. They lost three armored vehicles BA-I. But this is not seven thousand but 4800 people.
4. Bigade Bekteev formed in Kuldzha and when formed have only 200 cavalery solders. Then expanded to 1800. she is from the Russian immigrants, the former Whites. 1000 them from Manchukuo
5. The Kuomintang troops lost this war, and then they lied that they won, 80% of the province were controlled by the separatists, and this is not a defeat. Soviet troops left only when the retiring corps of the Kuomintang retreated. – 2018-07-10T07:35:39 by anonymous IP user 109.239.219.49
Seems the so-called “Whites” were these: zh:归化军. Kaihsu ( talk) 19:41, 3 April 2022 (UTC)