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On the North American English regional phonology page ( /info/en/?search=North_American_English_regional_phonology ) it states that the midland, while part of the southeast region according to Labov, is not part of southern american english. Labov doesn't even consider south midland to be part of the midland. I noticed on the Southern American English page ( /info/en/?search=Southern_American_English ) that there's a map that includes the midland on it. How is this accurate? I come from Indianapolis. We don't speak southern. We might have a couple features, but largely don't speak with a southern accent. I don't think most people view David Letterman (who's from Indianapolis) as having a "southern accent."
Also, I noticed that Labov states here http://www.atlas.mouton-content.com/AtlasofNorthAmericanEnglish_WdG-PartA.pdf (This is from Atlas of North American English) quite a few times about the North, West, Midland and South, like each is a different region. Although it's in video form on youtube, Labov does mention midland being sort of a buffer zone between North and South.
I'm not saying the Midland is part of the North, but I don't think it's part of the South either. Opinions? Molnizzle ( talk) 15:47, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
@ Wolfdog: I noticed you added the "super region" part to Southern American English. Why not keep that on pages like this one? /info/en/?search=North_American_English_regional_phonology The South is largely it's own umbrella and should have it's own article dedicated to it like all the other umberalls, as shown here https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/North_American_English_dialect_regions.jpg. Inland North, New York, North Central Midwest all have their own pages that talk specifically about just them. Talk about Super Regions should be here /info/en/?search=North_American_English_regional_phonology
I'm all for keeping certain mentions like, Charleston, Atlanta and Savannah on here. But the South deserves to have it's own page like all the others do. This would be consistent with the other pages. Kevinfromtx ( talk) 08:20, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Seems like an editor skipped the whole protocol of Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves here. I assumed "Southern American English" was pretty well established and "Southern United States English" not so much. Others' thoughts? Wolfdog ( talk) 13:58, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
@ 121.217.21.232, 120.29.117.138, 36.75.96.92, and 76.11.187.69: I see that since my mild August 23 restructuring there have been several other attempts to restructure the page. I think that means it's time for a discussion. My original thinking was this:
In this structuring, every sub-heading falls under a proper other (sub-)heading: i.e., Atlanta, Charleston, Savannah, AND Southern Louisiana are all "distinct Southern areas". I'll get to some reasons in a moment about why my own restructuring was imperfect*. At the present moment, however, what has been settled upon is the following ordering:
This is OK, but there are some problems. First, the purpose of my original change was to put all distinct/unique/divergent phonologies (i.e. "dialectally non-Southern" Southern accents) under a common heading. Second, "Urban Areas" (and "Areas" shouldn't be capitalized anyway) is a little controversial. Just because urban speakers are retreating from the dialect doesn't mean younger urban speech now gets to be the definition of all urban speech. For all we know, the retreat could stop, diminish, or even reverse. Third (see my asterisk above*), neither of our re-orderings recognize that the "Southern Louisiana" section discusses both phonology AND vocabulary. Here's the best re-ordering I can think to propose:
This is a lot smoother, since we'd be encouraging consistency by repeating the word "phonology". If we chose "phonology", however, we'd really have to move Southern Louisiana's vocabulary (neutral ground, banquette, etc.) under a second "Southern Louisiana" sub-section within the current "Vocabulary" section. I'd be happy to do all this. Wolfdog ( talk) 21:17, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
I added "liketa" (could also be written "like to" or "liked ta") to the typical Southern vocab list, but it occurs to me that it might not be typical after all. Alabama and southern Appalachia, where it's best studied, are certainly only a small region of the whole South. Anyone from outside that core area ever use the word or hear your neighbors use it? Wolfdog ( talk) 23:31, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Is there a reference or source for the second paragraph of the Geography section that mentions the potential origin of Southern American English? I could not find the citation and it does not seem like a common knowledge paragraph.
BitterLilyz ( talk) 15:14, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
MLKing. Peer reviewers:
Emilyfranco3.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
On the North American English regional phonology page ( /info/en/?search=North_American_English_regional_phonology ) it states that the midland, while part of the southeast region according to Labov, is not part of southern american english. Labov doesn't even consider south midland to be part of the midland. I noticed on the Southern American English page ( /info/en/?search=Southern_American_English ) that there's a map that includes the midland on it. How is this accurate? I come from Indianapolis. We don't speak southern. We might have a couple features, but largely don't speak with a southern accent. I don't think most people view David Letterman (who's from Indianapolis) as having a "southern accent."
Also, I noticed that Labov states here http://www.atlas.mouton-content.com/AtlasofNorthAmericanEnglish_WdG-PartA.pdf (This is from Atlas of North American English) quite a few times about the North, West, Midland and South, like each is a different region. Although it's in video form on youtube, Labov does mention midland being sort of a buffer zone between North and South.
I'm not saying the Midland is part of the North, but I don't think it's part of the South either. Opinions? Molnizzle ( talk) 15:47, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
@ Wolfdog: I noticed you added the "super region" part to Southern American English. Why not keep that on pages like this one? /info/en/?search=North_American_English_regional_phonology The South is largely it's own umbrella and should have it's own article dedicated to it like all the other umberalls, as shown here https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/North_American_English_dialect_regions.jpg. Inland North, New York, North Central Midwest all have their own pages that talk specifically about just them. Talk about Super Regions should be here /info/en/?search=North_American_English_regional_phonology
I'm all for keeping certain mentions like, Charleston, Atlanta and Savannah on here. But the South deserves to have it's own page like all the others do. This would be consistent with the other pages. Kevinfromtx ( talk) 08:20, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Seems like an editor skipped the whole protocol of Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves here. I assumed "Southern American English" was pretty well established and "Southern United States English" not so much. Others' thoughts? Wolfdog ( talk) 13:58, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
@ 121.217.21.232, 120.29.117.138, 36.75.96.92, and 76.11.187.69: I see that since my mild August 23 restructuring there have been several other attempts to restructure the page. I think that means it's time for a discussion. My original thinking was this:
In this structuring, every sub-heading falls under a proper other (sub-)heading: i.e., Atlanta, Charleston, Savannah, AND Southern Louisiana are all "distinct Southern areas". I'll get to some reasons in a moment about why my own restructuring was imperfect*. At the present moment, however, what has been settled upon is the following ordering:
This is OK, but there are some problems. First, the purpose of my original change was to put all distinct/unique/divergent phonologies (i.e. "dialectally non-Southern" Southern accents) under a common heading. Second, "Urban Areas" (and "Areas" shouldn't be capitalized anyway) is a little controversial. Just because urban speakers are retreating from the dialect doesn't mean younger urban speech now gets to be the definition of all urban speech. For all we know, the retreat could stop, diminish, or even reverse. Third (see my asterisk above*), neither of our re-orderings recognize that the "Southern Louisiana" section discusses both phonology AND vocabulary. Here's the best re-ordering I can think to propose:
This is a lot smoother, since we'd be encouraging consistency by repeating the word "phonology". If we chose "phonology", however, we'd really have to move Southern Louisiana's vocabulary (neutral ground, banquette, etc.) under a second "Southern Louisiana" sub-section within the current "Vocabulary" section. I'd be happy to do all this. Wolfdog ( talk) 21:17, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
I added "liketa" (could also be written "like to" or "liked ta") to the typical Southern vocab list, but it occurs to me that it might not be typical after all. Alabama and southern Appalachia, where it's best studied, are certainly only a small region of the whole South. Anyone from outside that core area ever use the word or hear your neighbors use it? Wolfdog ( talk) 23:31, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Is there a reference or source for the second paragraph of the Geography section that mentions the potential origin of Southern American English? I could not find the citation and it does not seem like a common knowledge paragraph.
BitterLilyz ( talk) 15:14, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
MLKing. Peer reviewers:
Emilyfranco3.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)