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List of important valleys in South Wales Shouldn't the list of 'industrialised valleys' in south Wales include the Gwendraeth valley in the West (which had significant mining) but not include the Usk and Wye valleys in the East which had no significant industrialisation? Huwbwici ( talk) 12:03, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Welshleprechaun recently made an edit asserting that the Taff Valley is also called the "Cardiff Valley" in the media. I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't seen this phrase used before, and it seems strange to me given that Cardiff itself is relatively flat. I couldn't find a reference to "Cardiff Valley" as a geographical descriptor when searching WalesOnline (though there is a reference to a sports team called the "Cardiff Valley Rams") [1] or the BBC news website. [2] Can any other editors throw any light on the matter? Pondle ( talk) 19:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Welshleprechaun, congrats on all the good hard work you've done on the article, one thing however just thought I'd explain my reasoning for not agreeing with expressly listing the Ely, Taff and Rhymney valleys under the subheading 'Cardiff Valleys'. The opening statement reads that and I quote - "The South Wales Valleys (Welsh: Cymoedd De Cymru) are a number of industrialised valleys in South Wales". To subcategorise these valleys within Cardiff creates confusion, since Cardiff does not have valleys as such being flat nor does it share the social demographic of the 'valleys'. The term 'South Wales Valleys' is used within the context of as you correctly point out the indsutrialised regions of South Wales based on the history of coal and iron mining in these areas and their consequent decline. Cardiff like Newport and the Vale of Glamorgan became prosperous because of the valleys but had little coal or iron production of their own right within their boundaries rather these feature rich pastural land, are major ports and largely affluent residential suburbs, hardly what is thought of as 'the valleys'. While the rivers Taff, Ely and Rhymney indeed flow through Cardiff, the article isn't specifically discussing river courses it is discussing valleys in its broad more general sense, nor is it referring to the pseudonyms of railway lines (i.e. Cardiff Valley Lines). To list these valleys specifically as being Cardiff is to imply that they are exclusive to the city, and regardless on this basis you may as well list the Usk and Ebbw as being 'Newport Valleys' etc. Can you please reconsider or else provide opening text to qualify your listing of valleys. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.132.197 ( talk) 18:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
I can see no logic at all in the way that 'Cardiff Valleys' is used in this article. If it is intended to include all the valleys which eventually drain into the Severn Estuary in Cardiff, then it should include the Cynon, Rhondda and Aber Valleys; if it is intended to include only those which actually reach as far as Cardiff then the Taff Bargoed Valley ought to be excluded. Further, if 'Cardiff Valleys' is retained then the Aber Valley seems misplaced (though as it lies between the Taff Valley and the Rhymney Valley it surely demonstrates the illogicality of the current list). In my view it would be best to lose this sub-category entirely. Ntmr ( talk) 18:12, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps it would have been better to hyphenate the phrase as Cardiff-Valleys to avoid confusion in future? SandySue845 ( talk) 19:34, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
I'm tagging a couple of sections that need additional work: 1. History - I've started to expand this, but it's still perfunctory and the narrative order is mixed up. 2. Decline - the peak output from the South Wales coalfield was in 1913, the Valleys were in serious trouble in the 20s and 30s, and pits closed throughout the post-war era. However, as currently written this attributes undue weight to WW2 and in particular the pit closures of the 1980s. 3. Culture - completely unreferenced and notably lacking in coverage of religion. We're also missing something on physical geography and environment. Pondle ( talk) 23:42, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
You're doing a good job so far. I'll have a go at the transport section - expand and find references. Welshleprechaun ( talk) 12:44, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a wiki member and I'm not at all au fait with the standards so I thought I'd post this here for someone else to find sources for and incorporate into the article. Sorry if this is the wrong way to do it!
The industry expanded because all the raw materials for making iron (ie. iron ore, coal and limestone) were locally available. Due to the hills and valleys, the coal was easy to mine as the seams were not far beneath the valleys. Also, the British Empire provided a guaranteed market.
The industry declined becuase modern machinery couldn't be introduced (seams too thin) and I believe the government subsidised its introduction elsewhere, meaning that coal production in the area was inefficient. The fall of the British Empire also meant that South Wales had to compete with other countries who were often cheaper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.237.72 ( talk) 19:32, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
A recent change removed the article from ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:Geography of Wales, as it was already in ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:Valleys of Wales, itself a subcategory of ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:Geography of Wales, as it shouldn't be in both categories at the same time. My view is that of the two categories it would be more appropriate in ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:Geography of Wales. Thoughts? Daicaregos ( talk) 07:18, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 13:36, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
While it's a shame that the .png map was deleted this list is a great addition to the article. However, I do think it raises three questions:
Happy to discuss. Cymrogogoch ( talk) 22:34, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
On the list of valleys, if one is splitting the Ebbw into Fawr and Fach, then in a similar vein, the same should apply to Gwendraeth and Rhondda. Also, no mention of the Darren Valley, which runs from Fochriw in the North, through Deri, with the Darren River joining the Rhymney at Bargoed. 2A02:C7E:5749:8000:986E:797B:14B6:ED63 ( talk) 04:58, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
DARRAN, not Darren - my apologies 2A02:C7E:5749:8000:986E:797B:14B6:ED63 ( talk) 05:01, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
The Aman Valley. Offshoot of the Cynon Valley, running from Cwmaman through Godreaman to its confluence with the Cynon at Aberaman. Unique amongst Welsh valleys, in that it runs north-east.
The Tillery Valley. Offshoot of the Ebbw Fach Valley. Runs through Cwmtillery to its confluence with the Ebbw Fach at Abertillery. 2A02:C7E:5749:8000:58F6:1FF8:D49A:FF41 ( talk) 18:23, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Welsh valleys has been listed at
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![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | It is requested that a map or maps be
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List of important valleys in South Wales Shouldn't the list of 'industrialised valleys' in south Wales include the Gwendraeth valley in the West (which had significant mining) but not include the Usk and Wye valleys in the East which had no significant industrialisation? Huwbwici ( talk) 12:03, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Welshleprechaun recently made an edit asserting that the Taff Valley is also called the "Cardiff Valley" in the media. I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't seen this phrase used before, and it seems strange to me given that Cardiff itself is relatively flat. I couldn't find a reference to "Cardiff Valley" as a geographical descriptor when searching WalesOnline (though there is a reference to a sports team called the "Cardiff Valley Rams") [1] or the BBC news website. [2] Can any other editors throw any light on the matter? Pondle ( talk) 19:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Welshleprechaun, congrats on all the good hard work you've done on the article, one thing however just thought I'd explain my reasoning for not agreeing with expressly listing the Ely, Taff and Rhymney valleys under the subheading 'Cardiff Valleys'. The opening statement reads that and I quote - "The South Wales Valleys (Welsh: Cymoedd De Cymru) are a number of industrialised valleys in South Wales". To subcategorise these valleys within Cardiff creates confusion, since Cardiff does not have valleys as such being flat nor does it share the social demographic of the 'valleys'. The term 'South Wales Valleys' is used within the context of as you correctly point out the indsutrialised regions of South Wales based on the history of coal and iron mining in these areas and their consequent decline. Cardiff like Newport and the Vale of Glamorgan became prosperous because of the valleys but had little coal or iron production of their own right within their boundaries rather these feature rich pastural land, are major ports and largely affluent residential suburbs, hardly what is thought of as 'the valleys'. While the rivers Taff, Ely and Rhymney indeed flow through Cardiff, the article isn't specifically discussing river courses it is discussing valleys in its broad more general sense, nor is it referring to the pseudonyms of railway lines (i.e. Cardiff Valley Lines). To list these valleys specifically as being Cardiff is to imply that they are exclusive to the city, and regardless on this basis you may as well list the Usk and Ebbw as being 'Newport Valleys' etc. Can you please reconsider or else provide opening text to qualify your listing of valleys. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.132.197 ( talk) 18:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
I can see no logic at all in the way that 'Cardiff Valleys' is used in this article. If it is intended to include all the valleys which eventually drain into the Severn Estuary in Cardiff, then it should include the Cynon, Rhondda and Aber Valleys; if it is intended to include only those which actually reach as far as Cardiff then the Taff Bargoed Valley ought to be excluded. Further, if 'Cardiff Valleys' is retained then the Aber Valley seems misplaced (though as it lies between the Taff Valley and the Rhymney Valley it surely demonstrates the illogicality of the current list). In my view it would be best to lose this sub-category entirely. Ntmr ( talk) 18:12, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps it would have been better to hyphenate the phrase as Cardiff-Valleys to avoid confusion in future? SandySue845 ( talk) 19:34, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
I'm tagging a couple of sections that need additional work: 1. History - I've started to expand this, but it's still perfunctory and the narrative order is mixed up. 2. Decline - the peak output from the South Wales coalfield was in 1913, the Valleys were in serious trouble in the 20s and 30s, and pits closed throughout the post-war era. However, as currently written this attributes undue weight to WW2 and in particular the pit closures of the 1980s. 3. Culture - completely unreferenced and notably lacking in coverage of religion. We're also missing something on physical geography and environment. Pondle ( talk) 23:42, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
You're doing a good job so far. I'll have a go at the transport section - expand and find references. Welshleprechaun ( talk) 12:44, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a wiki member and I'm not at all au fait with the standards so I thought I'd post this here for someone else to find sources for and incorporate into the article. Sorry if this is the wrong way to do it!
The industry expanded because all the raw materials for making iron (ie. iron ore, coal and limestone) were locally available. Due to the hills and valleys, the coal was easy to mine as the seams were not far beneath the valleys. Also, the British Empire provided a guaranteed market.
The industry declined becuase modern machinery couldn't be introduced (seams too thin) and I believe the government subsidised its introduction elsewhere, meaning that coal production in the area was inefficient. The fall of the British Empire also meant that South Wales had to compete with other countries who were often cheaper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.237.72 ( talk) 19:32, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
A recent change removed the article from ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:Geography of Wales, as it was already in ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:Valleys of Wales, itself a subcategory of ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:Geography of Wales, as it shouldn't be in both categories at the same time. My view is that of the two categories it would be more appropriate in ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:Geography of Wales. Thoughts? Daicaregos ( talk) 07:18, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 13:36, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
While it's a shame that the .png map was deleted this list is a great addition to the article. However, I do think it raises three questions:
Happy to discuss. Cymrogogoch ( talk) 22:34, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
On the list of valleys, if one is splitting the Ebbw into Fawr and Fach, then in a similar vein, the same should apply to Gwendraeth and Rhondda. Also, no mention of the Darren Valley, which runs from Fochriw in the North, through Deri, with the Darren River joining the Rhymney at Bargoed. 2A02:C7E:5749:8000:986E:797B:14B6:ED63 ( talk) 04:58, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
DARRAN, not Darren - my apologies 2A02:C7E:5749:8000:986E:797B:14B6:ED63 ( talk) 05:01, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
The Aman Valley. Offshoot of the Cynon Valley, running from Cwmaman through Godreaman to its confluence with the Cynon at Aberaman. Unique amongst Welsh valleys, in that it runs north-east.
The Tillery Valley. Offshoot of the Ebbw Fach Valley. Runs through Cwmtillery to its confluence with the Ebbw Fach at Abertillery. 2A02:C7E:5749:8000:58F6:1FF8:D49A:FF41 ( talk) 18:23, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Welsh valleys has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 August 30 § Welsh valleys until a consensus is reached.
Fork99 (
talk)
17:33, 30 August 2023 (UTC)