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Is this place officially part of Italy today? It's kind of hard to figure out from the article where this place is (I'm guessins somewhere in northern Italy, close to Switzerland and Austria). Dori 01:20, Oct 27, 2003 (UTC)
This article should redirect to Trentino-South Tyrol. john 04:24, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
Since South Tyrol is just one part of the whole province Trentino-South Tyrol, I think it is better to leave it as it is. Gugganij 11:55, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
Well, then this article needs to make clearer what is the relationship between South Tyrol and the whole province. Currently it's very confusing. john 19:11, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
This page is completely crazy. In English we list these two provinces of Italy as the Province of Trento (TN) and the Province of Bolzano (BZ) (Bolzano-Bozen, if you want). Province of South Tyrol? Have certain users gone mad? The REGION is Trentino-Alto Adige/Sudtirol. The provinces are TN and BZ.
Maybe I should know being an Austrian, but I don't: I was writing a paragraph on the concept of Austrian nation under Ethnic Germans as to the fact that Austrians, although previously considered Germans, developed a concept of distinctness from Germans and of an Austrian nation during the 20th century. So now I wonder do German-speaking Südtiroler consider themselves as German-speaking Italians, Germans or Austrians? Jakob Stevo 13:44, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
None of the above. "Südtiroler" (the term that describes the German-speaking inhabitants as opposed to "Altoatesini" which describes the Italian-speaking) consider themselves just that: Südtiroler. They often state their differences with Austrians, Germans. Not to mention Italians. Claudio 9:59, 6 Sept 2004(UTC)
For geo-politic questions I think it will be much more desiderable our reference to the Helsinki Agreements concerning Europe. Otherwise it will be possible and reasonable - for exemple - to rename Malvinas the Falklands.-- Cloj 08:50, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Could anybody back up the claim that Alter Ades is the official name of South Tyrol in Ladin? I spoke with a Ladine and he insisted that he never heard it. He claimed that Sudtirol is the official equivalent of South Tyrol in Ladin. Gugganij 16:26, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Alter Ades looks like latin, not ladin. Südtirol is the correct one. Here is the link to the ladin version of the official Südtirol network that proves that in the title itself: Rëi Zivica de Südtirol.
Side note about history, I've added information about anti-Italian terrorism. I've also found other things to be inaccurate, but left them in place for now. For example Italy actually never sided with Germany and Austria in ww1. Italy joined in 1915 against Austria. The description in World_War_I#Italian_participation seems correct.
South Tyrol DOES NOT EXIST! The correct name for the region is Alto Adige. South Tyrol should redirect there.
South Tyrol IS NOT a province of Italy, but it is just a geographic region, without a local government assigned by the Italian Constitution.
I strongly suggest to set this page in a more suitable context! --
Mac 8 July 2005 10:04 (UTC)
South Tyrol (in German: Südtirol, in Italian: Alto Adige) is identical with the province of Bolzano/Bozen (BZ) and these terms are also used in the offical name of this province with a special status which is mentioned in the headline: in Italian the name is Provincia autonoma di Bolzano-Alto Adige, in German Autonome Provinz Bozen-Südtirol. I would say this is fairly correct.
South Tyrol is a autonomous region that forms together with Trentino one of the 20 regions that form Italy. So south Tyrol can not be compared to one of the 19 other regions but it does exist. The correct name is, as already stated above, autonomous province of Bozen-South Tyrol, but nobody uses that Name, everybody just says "South Tyrol". It's a little bit like "The United States of America", "The U.S." or "The United States" or even "America". All these terms are often used for the same geographical region = state and they all exist, but only one is official. --
This image is great; use it as soon as there is space next to a relevant section. — Sverdrup 12:01, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
This article shows bias by calling Sudtiroler martyrs "terrorists" and I'm hereby changing them to "Freedom Fighters" -- 24.141.214.87
The weren't freedom fighters. Italy gave them all the freedom a man could desire. They were mere nationalists, italian-haters and terrorists, and their children still share the same mentality in the 22nd century... Poor men...
Since "freedomefighter" is not acepted by italian speaking people, and "terrorist" not by german speaking people, maybe "policital activist" is a neutral enough term? Fantasy 11:29, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Why should we call "political activists" people who placed bombs and actually killed people (Sesto Pusteria 26-Aug- 1965, 2 Carabinieri killed by the south tyrolean "political activists" - 25-Lug-1966 S. Martino in Casies, 3 Finanzieri killed by the "political activists"... and so on... the list is very long). History cannot be discussed with people who don't want to admit the truth... They were terrorists. The ones of them who demonstrated innocent have been graced long ago. The others have to be treated as terrorists.
If the anonymous user insists... I present, vote # umpteen. — Nightstallion (?) 23:18, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Open letter to Gryffindor: Are you 12 years old? You say this POV pushing is annoying? Do you think everyone can't see through what you are doing? You should be ashamed, as a European and as a Human. You try to make up a new term to call the region and make Wiki a political forum. You should be incredibly ashamed. YOU are the only one who is pushing POV. 192.45.72.27 00:53, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Voting: How can we possibly have fair voting on here? I or anyone else could register multiple accounts and mass vote. Or you can happen to have more Nationalistic Germans or Italians who come and want to impose something that does not fit with what is Internationally recognized. The region is known in English and Italian maps/books as Trentino-Alto Adige. Trentino-South Tyrol does not exist. Using Wiki to create new names in a political mindset is beyond unethical. 192.45.72.27 00:55, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I am being indifferent when it comes to the legal status of South Tyrol, but I also can't really find any conclusive evidence that the region should go by the name "Alto Adige." From what I quickly looked up, the dominant language in that region seems to be German and therefore most of its inhabitants seem to use the German name. Cyberevil 16:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Not moved, obviously. And to the next POV warrior who wants to try this: Not before January 2007, you hear me? — Nightstallion (?) 08:12, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Just stumbled on this debate and am a little surprised at the lack of historical knowledge here, as if people think the name Alto Adige has been pulled from thin air. Truth is even most Italy tour books explain where the name comes from. Basically when Italy got control of the region after WWI, the Fascist government wanted to make it more "Italian," so the name was changed ("Alto Adige" refers to the headwaters of the Adige River, which flows through the region) in an attempt to connect it with the rest of the Italian peninsula. Having traveled in the region I can confirm that nowadays BOTH names are in use (seems all the links at the bottom of the page were chosen on purpose because they say South Tyrol, but see http://www.provincia.bz.it/turismo.htm for another perspective). Since the whole point of Wikipedia is to be above politics, I'd vote for the above suggestion of Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol which can then be well explained in the article. (Sorry I'm not doing it, but I'm a newbie and don't have the time to figure it out at the moment.) "South Tyrol" is wrong for these purposes in any event - if you're so concerned about the German speakers being kept down then you might want to make sure that the name they prefer is actually given in their language. Cheers from an American expat in Italia. 85.18.136.107 23:13, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Moved from the beginning of the talk page. -- Panairjdde 17:51, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
---
It's important to understand that turn of the century Italians from what's now "Trentino" never considered themselves anything other than Tyroleans. No member of my local "Tyrol Club" had any ancestors from what is now German-speaking "Suedtirol", rather, those ancestors were all from the Val Guicardina to the south in what's now Trentino. The Tyrol includes Austrian Tyrol AND Suedtirol, AND TRENTINO. - ALL THREE REGIONS Usages began to change only after WWI but Tyrolean families who left Austria and Italy before then, know how the term "The Tyrol" should really be used.
You may be interested to know that during Swiss rule like 500 years ago, neighboring Valtellina w/ Bormio were often called Westtirol instead of just "Veltlin".
There needs to be some major cleanup and maybe consolidation of articles
---
"Suedtirol" should not be the name used in an English Encyclopedia - BECAUSE "Suedtirol" and "South Tyrol" lexically/etymologically mean the same thing, when in reality they describe two SEPARATE regions. Is there any reason to have the possibility of "Suedtirol" and "South Tyrol" both appearing on the same map over 2 different regions? Its nutty.
This new notice board might be of interest to editors here. You can help with our current projects or ask for help with yours, and ask any related question on our talk page. Hope to see you there, Kusma (討論) 15:19, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Is this place officially part of Italy today? It's kind of hard to figure out from the article where this place is (I'm guessins somewhere in northern Italy, close to Switzerland and Austria). Dori 01:20, Oct 27, 2003 (UTC)
This article should redirect to Trentino-South Tyrol. john 04:24, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
Since South Tyrol is just one part of the whole province Trentino-South Tyrol, I think it is better to leave it as it is. Gugganij 11:55, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
Well, then this article needs to make clearer what is the relationship between South Tyrol and the whole province. Currently it's very confusing. john 19:11, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
This page is completely crazy. In English we list these two provinces of Italy as the Province of Trento (TN) and the Province of Bolzano (BZ) (Bolzano-Bozen, if you want). Province of South Tyrol? Have certain users gone mad? The REGION is Trentino-Alto Adige/Sudtirol. The provinces are TN and BZ.
Maybe I should know being an Austrian, but I don't: I was writing a paragraph on the concept of Austrian nation under Ethnic Germans as to the fact that Austrians, although previously considered Germans, developed a concept of distinctness from Germans and of an Austrian nation during the 20th century. So now I wonder do German-speaking Südtiroler consider themselves as German-speaking Italians, Germans or Austrians? Jakob Stevo 13:44, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
None of the above. "Südtiroler" (the term that describes the German-speaking inhabitants as opposed to "Altoatesini" which describes the Italian-speaking) consider themselves just that: Südtiroler. They often state their differences with Austrians, Germans. Not to mention Italians. Claudio 9:59, 6 Sept 2004(UTC)
For geo-politic questions I think it will be much more desiderable our reference to the Helsinki Agreements concerning Europe. Otherwise it will be possible and reasonable - for exemple - to rename Malvinas the Falklands.-- Cloj 08:50, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Could anybody back up the claim that Alter Ades is the official name of South Tyrol in Ladin? I spoke with a Ladine and he insisted that he never heard it. He claimed that Sudtirol is the official equivalent of South Tyrol in Ladin. Gugganij 16:26, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Alter Ades looks like latin, not ladin. Südtirol is the correct one. Here is the link to the ladin version of the official Südtirol network that proves that in the title itself: Rëi Zivica de Südtirol.
Side note about history, I've added information about anti-Italian terrorism. I've also found other things to be inaccurate, but left them in place for now. For example Italy actually never sided with Germany and Austria in ww1. Italy joined in 1915 against Austria. The description in World_War_I#Italian_participation seems correct.
South Tyrol DOES NOT EXIST! The correct name for the region is Alto Adige. South Tyrol should redirect there.
South Tyrol IS NOT a province of Italy, but it is just a geographic region, without a local government assigned by the Italian Constitution.
I strongly suggest to set this page in a more suitable context! --
Mac 8 July 2005 10:04 (UTC)
South Tyrol (in German: Südtirol, in Italian: Alto Adige) is identical with the province of Bolzano/Bozen (BZ) and these terms are also used in the offical name of this province with a special status which is mentioned in the headline: in Italian the name is Provincia autonoma di Bolzano-Alto Adige, in German Autonome Provinz Bozen-Südtirol. I would say this is fairly correct.
South Tyrol is a autonomous region that forms together with Trentino one of the 20 regions that form Italy. So south Tyrol can not be compared to one of the 19 other regions but it does exist. The correct name is, as already stated above, autonomous province of Bozen-South Tyrol, but nobody uses that Name, everybody just says "South Tyrol". It's a little bit like "The United States of America", "The U.S." or "The United States" or even "America". All these terms are often used for the same geographical region = state and they all exist, but only one is official. --
This image is great; use it as soon as there is space next to a relevant section. — Sverdrup 12:01, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
This article shows bias by calling Sudtiroler martyrs "terrorists" and I'm hereby changing them to "Freedom Fighters" -- 24.141.214.87
The weren't freedom fighters. Italy gave them all the freedom a man could desire. They were mere nationalists, italian-haters and terrorists, and their children still share the same mentality in the 22nd century... Poor men...
Since "freedomefighter" is not acepted by italian speaking people, and "terrorist" not by german speaking people, maybe "policital activist" is a neutral enough term? Fantasy 11:29, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Why should we call "political activists" people who placed bombs and actually killed people (Sesto Pusteria 26-Aug- 1965, 2 Carabinieri killed by the south tyrolean "political activists" - 25-Lug-1966 S. Martino in Casies, 3 Finanzieri killed by the "political activists"... and so on... the list is very long). History cannot be discussed with people who don't want to admit the truth... They were terrorists. The ones of them who demonstrated innocent have been graced long ago. The others have to be treated as terrorists.
If the anonymous user insists... I present, vote # umpteen. — Nightstallion (?) 23:18, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Open letter to Gryffindor: Are you 12 years old? You say this POV pushing is annoying? Do you think everyone can't see through what you are doing? You should be ashamed, as a European and as a Human. You try to make up a new term to call the region and make Wiki a political forum. You should be incredibly ashamed. YOU are the only one who is pushing POV. 192.45.72.27 00:53, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Voting: How can we possibly have fair voting on here? I or anyone else could register multiple accounts and mass vote. Or you can happen to have more Nationalistic Germans or Italians who come and want to impose something that does not fit with what is Internationally recognized. The region is known in English and Italian maps/books as Trentino-Alto Adige. Trentino-South Tyrol does not exist. Using Wiki to create new names in a political mindset is beyond unethical. 192.45.72.27 00:55, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I am being indifferent when it comes to the legal status of South Tyrol, but I also can't really find any conclusive evidence that the region should go by the name "Alto Adige." From what I quickly looked up, the dominant language in that region seems to be German and therefore most of its inhabitants seem to use the German name. Cyberevil 16:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Not moved, obviously. And to the next POV warrior who wants to try this: Not before January 2007, you hear me? — Nightstallion (?) 08:12, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Just stumbled on this debate and am a little surprised at the lack of historical knowledge here, as if people think the name Alto Adige has been pulled from thin air. Truth is even most Italy tour books explain where the name comes from. Basically when Italy got control of the region after WWI, the Fascist government wanted to make it more "Italian," so the name was changed ("Alto Adige" refers to the headwaters of the Adige River, which flows through the region) in an attempt to connect it with the rest of the Italian peninsula. Having traveled in the region I can confirm that nowadays BOTH names are in use (seems all the links at the bottom of the page were chosen on purpose because they say South Tyrol, but see http://www.provincia.bz.it/turismo.htm for another perspective). Since the whole point of Wikipedia is to be above politics, I'd vote for the above suggestion of Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol which can then be well explained in the article. (Sorry I'm not doing it, but I'm a newbie and don't have the time to figure it out at the moment.) "South Tyrol" is wrong for these purposes in any event - if you're so concerned about the German speakers being kept down then you might want to make sure that the name they prefer is actually given in their language. Cheers from an American expat in Italia. 85.18.136.107 23:13, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Moved from the beginning of the talk page. -- Panairjdde 17:51, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
---
It's important to understand that turn of the century Italians from what's now "Trentino" never considered themselves anything other than Tyroleans. No member of my local "Tyrol Club" had any ancestors from what is now German-speaking "Suedtirol", rather, those ancestors were all from the Val Guicardina to the south in what's now Trentino. The Tyrol includes Austrian Tyrol AND Suedtirol, AND TRENTINO. - ALL THREE REGIONS Usages began to change only after WWI but Tyrolean families who left Austria and Italy before then, know how the term "The Tyrol" should really be used.
You may be interested to know that during Swiss rule like 500 years ago, neighboring Valtellina w/ Bormio were often called Westtirol instead of just "Veltlin".
There needs to be some major cleanup and maybe consolidation of articles
---
"Suedtirol" should not be the name used in an English Encyclopedia - BECAUSE "Suedtirol" and "South Tyrol" lexically/etymologically mean the same thing, when in reality they describe two SEPARATE regions. Is there any reason to have the possibility of "Suedtirol" and "South Tyrol" both appearing on the same map over 2 different regions? Its nutty.
This new notice board might be of interest to editors here. You can help with our current projects or ask for help with yours, and ask any related question on our talk page. Hope to see you there, Kusma (討論) 15:19, 10 February 2006 (UTC)