![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Hi, perhaps someone here can help me identify this aircraft that flew low over me on 2 May at about 18h30. I was at Modderfontien and this strange aircraft was flying east from Johannesburg International towards Johannesburg. Although it was getting dark I saw no markings or identification. This is all I can give you: it was a medium size twin turboprop, guessing about 10m plus in length, not sure but I think it had straight wings, it had a sharp nose cone over a metre long, it had a tail what look like a MAD boom, it had a small white object on its belly which looked like those search radars found on maritime aircraft and lastly it had a cable that ran from the nose to the starboard wing to the tail to the port wing and back to the nose. Sorry but that is all I could get although it flew low and slowly over head it was getting dark. It is smaller than the DC-3s that we use for MR if that helps -- Jcw69 13:12, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
How is this determined? The RAF is the oldest, and the article says the SAAF was indendent in 1951, but the US Air Force was independent in 1947 and the French Air Force in the 1930s. -- Awiseman 17:21, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
The following I got of the SAAF website maybe it helps clear up things: Col Pierre van Ryneveld was appointed Director Air Services (DAS) with effect from 1 February 1920 with instructions to establish an air force for the Union. This date is acknowledged as marking the official birth of the SAAF. http://www.af.mil.za/about_us/history.html
Accesed 16 March 2007 -Franco
This article has become rather long (41KB) and slow to load. Shouldn't the tables of units and aircraft be put onto separate pages? Dirk L ( talk) 18:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
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An image used in this article,
File:SA-Army-badge.png, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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I have removed the aircraft and squadron tables and changed them to collapsible tables for the sake of easier reading. But... for the life of me, I cant change the the pink header rows to any other colour, and I am certain pink is not the colour to be used in an air force OOD or aircraft table!!! Please assist! Farawayman ( talk) 20:00, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Didn't it used to be the Royal South African Air Force? Until 1960? (When South Africa became a Republic) I have Air Force badges that all have crowns and an old magazine article from the early 1950s that refers to the 'Dominion Air forces' and lists RAAF, RNZAF, RCAF & RSAAF. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.245.47 ( talk) 00:23, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Does the SAAF currently operate any RPV's? I believe the Seeker II has been withdrawn from service and the Seeker 400 is still under development. If "yes", please provide details and cite to allow these aircraft to be added to the "Current Aircraft" section. Farawayman ( talk) 04:21, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
I have removed this legacy bullet point from the article:
My concerns are:
Above could be included in a section titled "Mediterranean Operations." Any additional info substantiating the original cite would be appreciated - I cannot access this document. Farawayman ( talk) 18:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
I removed AFB PE from the map because of this [ [2]] edit by user:Buckshot06 (Refer paragraph commencing " From 1990 with the perceived reduction in threat, ......" Buckshot - your views? Removal of FAPE from map was reverted by User:Impi Farawayman ( talk) 16:10, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Interested editors are invited to comment in Template talk:SAAF navbox - it appears that there are no longer any reserve squadrons. Please comment on the template talk page. Farawayman ( talk) 18:51, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Anyone know what this UAV/drone is? Photo was taken at the SAAF museum (Swartkop), but no additional information was provided with the exhibit. -- NJR_ZA ( talk) 08:02, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help) --
NJR_ZA (
talk)
16:13, 7 May 2012 (UTC)If anyone is looking to start a new article, the RSA-3 can be an interesting article to research. -- NJR_ZA ( talk) 19:10, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
The Warbirds Centenary Airshow will be held on 12 May 2012 at AFB Swartkop. Gates open 7AM. Good opportunity to get some photos of some of the old birds in flight -- NJR_ZA ( talk) 18:26, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Interested editors are welcome to review / comment on the discussion taking place on Socrates2008 talk page. Farawayman ( talk) 22:54, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
This section currently discusses only SANDF medals. I believe the section is supposed to discuss medals that are exclusive to the Air Force rather than medals that are awarded across the entire SANDF. Roger ( talk) 18:31, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
The infobox states the motto to be Per Aspera Ad Astra - is this correct? The RAF motto is Per Ardua ad Astra and I would have assumed that the SAAF would have adopted the RAF motto, being a Commonwealth air force (Australian, Canadian and New Zealand air forces all adopted the exact RAF motto). If its correct - do we have any citation to substantiate this? Also, I suspect it may originally have been identical to the RAF motto and was subsequently changed - does anyone have any evidence of this? Views? Farawayman ( talk) 15:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
The SAAF March apparently used to be a localised version of "Erica" (Auf der Heide blüht ein kleines Blümelein) - which also happened to be the original March of the Waffen SS (later adopted by the Wehrmacht)! See here. Does anyone know what the current official march may be? Farawayman ( talk) 16:16, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
The Imperial Gift article is basically done. I'm now working on a "sub" article covering South Africa's share of the Imperial Gift and the subsequent establishment and early history of the SAAF in greater detail - User:Dodger67/Sandbox/South Africa's Imperial Gift. Please feel free to particpate in the drafting process. Roger ( talk) 08:13, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I can't find the full citation for the "Becker (1991)" reference that is used repeatedly in the history section. This style of citing requires a "list of sources" containing the full bibliographic details to be appended to the references section. If the full cite is used once inline instead of being added to a separate bibliography list such references may easily be broken if that first occurrence happens to be removed during the article development. I suspect other references in this style may also be broken due to the absence of a bibliography list. I would like to be able to use the source in the new Imperial Gift article. Roger ( talk) 11:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Hi. I am seriously impressed with the quality of the history section of this page. But I would like to suggest that you consider splitting off the history section. IMHO there is enough info to merit its own page. At some stage it would be useful to add more to the page ito Current role, organisation, etc. Just my 2c Gbawden ( talk) 09:09, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
We're all acting as if the WP:Publishing deadline was tomorrow. No need. Lets just trim down the history section in the main article slowly, until it's more of a summary. No need for quick butchering. Yes, also, expand my initial crack at the History of SAAF intro. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 09:09, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
This page was accidentally off my watchlist - I've contributed significantly to the history, and have no issue with the split. Happy to help where necessary with appropriate summaries. Socrates2008 ( Talk) 10:47, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of South African Air Force's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "SAAF":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 22:26, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
I recommend this section be cut to a separate page and that we make a brief reference to current coverage in the form of one paragraph. The "Radar Coverage over South Africa" section contains sufficient information to warrant a completely separate page. This new page could be made more generic and further make reference to the major contributions South Africa made to development of radar during WW2: See here Farawayman ( talk) 12:26, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
This article on slightly expands on the South African Air Force article. Merging them would lead to one much-improved article. FunkyCanute ( talk) 15:18, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Oppose - Such a merge would make the article too long. I think we should actually "finish" the split properly, by moving most of the history detail from South African Air Force to History of the South African Air Force, then both articles would be improved. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 16:41, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Oppose - go back and read "Split Suggestion" above on this Talk Page: It was recommended to remove the history part from the SAAF page because it made the page too long and cumbersome. The History PAGE was intended to contain detailed history down to squadron level while the History SECTION on the SAAF page was intended as an overview covering each campaign or era. Farawayman ( talk) 12:23, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
South African Air Force has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
i created the images of the shooting proficiency badges on the SAAF page. firstly, they are inaccurate, and half of them never existed. secondly, it was never intended to be put on wiki or any other page/site. please remove them. 105.186.164.38 ( talk) 10:57, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:29, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
The unusual shape of this roundel is based on the plan of the Castle of Good Hope in Cape Town. But I'm not sure where this would be best placed; perhaps underneath the illustrations of the roundels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.37.71 ( talk) 14:02, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
No mention of it being actively used, why not? 41.13.131.15 ( talk) 08:49, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
I don't know who wrote this...
"Due to the international arms embargo imposed against South Africa, the SAAF was unable to procure modern fighter aircraft to compete with the MiG-23s fielded by the Cubans in this conflict."
South Africa had both Mirage III's and Mirage F-1's in the air during the Angola war. Both of those were capable aircraft when compared with the MiG-23. The only big problem that the SAAF had was that their air-to-air missile, the V3 Kukri stank on ice. We need to rework this section a bit.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_184.shtml
Plaasjaapie ( talk) 23:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I was thinking the exact same thing. There are numberous quotes from South African Serviceman stating that in most cases the Angolan and Cuban pilots were laughable. A MiG-23 was only taken seriously when there was a Russian pilot inside. Even then, the Mirages were easily a match for them. The nationality of the pilot could be identified by the language they spoke on their radio. Werner ghost ( talk) 08:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
S Afr developed a couple of free fall nuclear weapons - I think they were designed for delivery by Buccaneer (not sure). Were these weapons under command of the SAAF? Should reference be made to these weapons on this page? Farawayman ( talk) 16:20, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Hi, perhaps someone here can help me identify this aircraft that flew low over me on 2 May at about 18h30. I was at Modderfontien and this strange aircraft was flying east from Johannesburg International towards Johannesburg. Although it was getting dark I saw no markings or identification. This is all I can give you: it was a medium size twin turboprop, guessing about 10m plus in length, not sure but I think it had straight wings, it had a sharp nose cone over a metre long, it had a tail what look like a MAD boom, it had a small white object on its belly which looked like those search radars found on maritime aircraft and lastly it had a cable that ran from the nose to the starboard wing to the tail to the port wing and back to the nose. Sorry but that is all I could get although it flew low and slowly over head it was getting dark. It is smaller than the DC-3s that we use for MR if that helps -- Jcw69 13:12, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
How is this determined? The RAF is the oldest, and the article says the SAAF was indendent in 1951, but the US Air Force was independent in 1947 and the French Air Force in the 1930s. -- Awiseman 17:21, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
The following I got of the SAAF website maybe it helps clear up things: Col Pierre van Ryneveld was appointed Director Air Services (DAS) with effect from 1 February 1920 with instructions to establish an air force for the Union. This date is acknowledged as marking the official birth of the SAAF. http://www.af.mil.za/about_us/history.html
Accesed 16 March 2007 -Franco
This article has become rather long (41KB) and slow to load. Shouldn't the tables of units and aircraft be put onto separate pages? Dirk L ( talk) 18:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:SA-Army-badge.png, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 13:14, 28 October 2011 (UTC) |
I have removed the aircraft and squadron tables and changed them to collapsible tables for the sake of easier reading. But... for the life of me, I cant change the the pink header rows to any other colour, and I am certain pink is not the colour to be used in an air force OOD or aircraft table!!! Please assist! Farawayman ( talk) 20:00, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Didn't it used to be the Royal South African Air Force? Until 1960? (When South Africa became a Republic) I have Air Force badges that all have crowns and an old magazine article from the early 1950s that refers to the 'Dominion Air forces' and lists RAAF, RNZAF, RCAF & RSAAF. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.245.47 ( talk) 00:23, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Does the SAAF currently operate any RPV's? I believe the Seeker II has been withdrawn from service and the Seeker 400 is still under development. If "yes", please provide details and cite to allow these aircraft to be added to the "Current Aircraft" section. Farawayman ( talk) 04:21, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
I have removed this legacy bullet point from the article:
My concerns are:
Above could be included in a section titled "Mediterranean Operations." Any additional info substantiating the original cite would be appreciated - I cannot access this document. Farawayman ( talk) 18:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
I removed AFB PE from the map because of this [ [2]] edit by user:Buckshot06 (Refer paragraph commencing " From 1990 with the perceived reduction in threat, ......" Buckshot - your views? Removal of FAPE from map was reverted by User:Impi Farawayman ( talk) 16:10, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Interested editors are invited to comment in Template talk:SAAF navbox - it appears that there are no longer any reserve squadrons. Please comment on the template talk page. Farawayman ( talk) 18:51, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Anyone know what this UAV/drone is? Photo was taken at the SAAF museum (Swartkop), but no additional information was provided with the exhibit. -- NJR_ZA ( talk) 08:02, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help) --
NJR_ZA (
talk)
16:13, 7 May 2012 (UTC)If anyone is looking to start a new article, the RSA-3 can be an interesting article to research. -- NJR_ZA ( talk) 19:10, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
The Warbirds Centenary Airshow will be held on 12 May 2012 at AFB Swartkop. Gates open 7AM. Good opportunity to get some photos of some of the old birds in flight -- NJR_ZA ( talk) 18:26, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Interested editors are welcome to review / comment on the discussion taking place on Socrates2008 talk page. Farawayman ( talk) 22:54, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
This section currently discusses only SANDF medals. I believe the section is supposed to discuss medals that are exclusive to the Air Force rather than medals that are awarded across the entire SANDF. Roger ( talk) 18:31, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
The infobox states the motto to be Per Aspera Ad Astra - is this correct? The RAF motto is Per Ardua ad Astra and I would have assumed that the SAAF would have adopted the RAF motto, being a Commonwealth air force (Australian, Canadian and New Zealand air forces all adopted the exact RAF motto). If its correct - do we have any citation to substantiate this? Also, I suspect it may originally have been identical to the RAF motto and was subsequently changed - does anyone have any evidence of this? Views? Farawayman ( talk) 15:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
The SAAF March apparently used to be a localised version of "Erica" (Auf der Heide blüht ein kleines Blümelein) - which also happened to be the original March of the Waffen SS (later adopted by the Wehrmacht)! See here. Does anyone know what the current official march may be? Farawayman ( talk) 16:16, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
The Imperial Gift article is basically done. I'm now working on a "sub" article covering South Africa's share of the Imperial Gift and the subsequent establishment and early history of the SAAF in greater detail - User:Dodger67/Sandbox/South Africa's Imperial Gift. Please feel free to particpate in the drafting process. Roger ( talk) 08:13, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I can't find the full citation for the "Becker (1991)" reference that is used repeatedly in the history section. This style of citing requires a "list of sources" containing the full bibliographic details to be appended to the references section. If the full cite is used once inline instead of being added to a separate bibliography list such references may easily be broken if that first occurrence happens to be removed during the article development. I suspect other references in this style may also be broken due to the absence of a bibliography list. I would like to be able to use the source in the new Imperial Gift article. Roger ( talk) 11:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Hi. I am seriously impressed with the quality of the history section of this page. But I would like to suggest that you consider splitting off the history section. IMHO there is enough info to merit its own page. At some stage it would be useful to add more to the page ito Current role, organisation, etc. Just my 2c Gbawden ( talk) 09:09, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
We're all acting as if the WP:Publishing deadline was tomorrow. No need. Lets just trim down the history section in the main article slowly, until it's more of a summary. No need for quick butchering. Yes, also, expand my initial crack at the History of SAAF intro. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 09:09, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
This page was accidentally off my watchlist - I've contributed significantly to the history, and have no issue with the split. Happy to help where necessary with appropriate summaries. Socrates2008 ( Talk) 10:47, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of South African Air Force's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "SAAF":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 22:26, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
I recommend this section be cut to a separate page and that we make a brief reference to current coverage in the form of one paragraph. The "Radar Coverage over South Africa" section contains sufficient information to warrant a completely separate page. This new page could be made more generic and further make reference to the major contributions South Africa made to development of radar during WW2: See here Farawayman ( talk) 12:26, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
This article on slightly expands on the South African Air Force article. Merging them would lead to one much-improved article. FunkyCanute ( talk) 15:18, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Oppose - Such a merge would make the article too long. I think we should actually "finish" the split properly, by moving most of the history detail from South African Air Force to History of the South African Air Force, then both articles would be improved. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 16:41, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Oppose - go back and read "Split Suggestion" above on this Talk Page: It was recommended to remove the history part from the SAAF page because it made the page too long and cumbersome. The History PAGE was intended to contain detailed history down to squadron level while the History SECTION on the SAAF page was intended as an overview covering each campaign or era. Farawayman ( talk) 12:23, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
South African Air Force has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
i created the images of the shooting proficiency badges on the SAAF page. firstly, they are inaccurate, and half of them never existed. secondly, it was never intended to be put on wiki or any other page/site. please remove them. 105.186.164.38 ( talk) 10:57, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:29, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
The unusual shape of this roundel is based on the plan of the Castle of Good Hope in Cape Town. But I'm not sure where this would be best placed; perhaps underneath the illustrations of the roundels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.37.71 ( talk) 14:02, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
No mention of it being actively used, why not? 41.13.131.15 ( talk) 08:49, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
I don't know who wrote this...
"Due to the international arms embargo imposed against South Africa, the SAAF was unable to procure modern fighter aircraft to compete with the MiG-23s fielded by the Cubans in this conflict."
South Africa had both Mirage III's and Mirage F-1's in the air during the Angola war. Both of those were capable aircraft when compared with the MiG-23. The only big problem that the SAAF had was that their air-to-air missile, the V3 Kukri stank on ice. We need to rework this section a bit.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_184.shtml
Plaasjaapie ( talk) 23:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I was thinking the exact same thing. There are numberous quotes from South African Serviceman stating that in most cases the Angolan and Cuban pilots were laughable. A MiG-23 was only taken seriously when there was a Russian pilot inside. Even then, the Mirages were easily a match for them. The nationality of the pilot could be identified by the language they spoke on their radio. Werner ghost ( talk) 08:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
S Afr developed a couple of free fall nuclear weapons - I think they were designed for delivery by Buccaneer (not sure). Were these weapons under command of the SAAF? Should reference be made to these weapons on this page? Farawayman ( talk) 16:20, 7 June 2012 (UTC)