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I suggest changing the current Instagram-sourced cover image to this CC BY 2.0 image from flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/x1brett/51240528416 Yannn 11 19:41, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
There is edit-warring going on regarding the inclusion/exclusion of this wording in the lede after the name of the album. A recent edit by Livelikemusic cited a discussion about this issue (from about two years ago), as well as MOS:MUSICCAPS. I'd be inclined to stick with the guidelines here and not include this wording, though I note that the album title is displayed all caps at the various music services which allow users to stream or buy the album (iTunes, Amazon, Napster, Spotify, etc.). This does go beyond the argument made about all caps being commonplace, as in how the typeset is done for albums, books, and so forth - that applies to the physical, tangible version of the item. My thinking is it was Rodrigo's (or her record label's) intent to have all caps in terms of representing the name of the album not just in the physical (cover art) sense, but altogether, if that makes any sense. Still, having the "stylized" wording at the beginning of the article is debatable, though judging by the cited discussion from a couple of years ago, applying to Wikipedia's album project as a whole, I'm not so sure my explanation above is justification for the wording at all. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 01:36, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
@ 19saaashi19: Just so you know, Rolling Stone calls the "Cruel Summer"/"Deja Vu" similarly an interpolation, saying "This is the second Sour track to feature a Swift-Antonoff interpolation and writing credit" (per [1]). Even if it is not technically an interpolation, we have a reliable source that calls it one. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 ( let's chat!) 23:13, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
Olivia Rodrigo has an RFC over whether Rodrigo should be called a singer-songwriter in the article, instead of a singer and a songwriter. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. BawinV ( talk) 14:38, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
This tweet [1] from Billboard's chart director Gary Trust is what I've found so far to back the release of the song as Rodrigo's fourth single, when it goes for radio adds next week. I'm thinking a more solid source is needed. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 20:07, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Yeah I kinda agree with you. PopLizard86427 ( talk) 22:01, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
References
Please discuss here regarding the single status of "Brutal". Do not edit war in the article page. BawinV ( talk) 06:15, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
Brutal is not a single. I don't know why you only say that because in a video of Billboard say that. The song is not going to have promotion or it will be sent to the radio. The video was released only for promotion to Apple specifically for an ad in the Procreate app using iPads. I really don’t know why you inmediately think a song is a single because a web article or a video says. A LOT of songs are referenced as a single when the singer released a video for example Write on Me of Fifth Harmony ( https://ew.com/article/2016/05/05/fifth-harmony-write-on-me/) that is only a promotional single because they released a video. So, you should really take a consideration about Brutal being a single. Is not only say like “oh! billboard just called brutal a single, so we should edit and put that the song is officially a single”; no, we need to have more information, if the song is going to have radio airplay or a date of impact, performances, etcetera. But for now i dont think brutal is a single and Olivia is only focus in traitor. Maxgoldman12334 ( talk) 13:21, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
1. She never released any Single Cover for the song like what she did on the first three singles. 2. The song wasn't sent on the radios. 3. It was most likely partnership with apple music prolly a promo song with video. Maxgoldman12334 ( talk) 13:38, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Why is Brutal considered a single when Billboard calls it a single, but songs like Need To Know, by Doja Cat, are not? Billboard literally called that song a single, it had a music video and everything, but since it still hasn’t hit the radio, the editors refused to add it as a single, so you should keep the same energy with Brutal. Newanders22 ( talk) 17:02, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Almost every time a music video is released for a song, editors cherry-pick sources which call the song a single. In one twitter video, Billboard called it a single. In an actual article about the music video, they don't. Insider isn't considered a generally reliable source per WP:RSP (and it doesn't call it a single—it's only cited for the music video release). Nylon is owned by Bustle and Bustle also has no consensus on its reliability at WP:RSP. There are just as much sources that omit the word "single" as ones that include it.
Here are reliable/semi-reliable sources on the topic:
(1) The ones that do not call it a single outnumber the ones that do. (2) If it was an actual single, that would be an odd fact for these established, reputable sources to omit. uDiscover Music is owned by her record label's owner, but I doubt how seriously that should be taken unless Geffen/Interscope actually issues a press release calling it a single. (3) There is no separate digital download/streaming, no physical release, nor a radio impact date. All of this that doesn't matter because Billboard called it a single in one Twitter video and a couple other outlets did? I don't get it. Heartfox ( talk) 00:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
I agree with the point of Heartfox and he show proof! So you need to reconsider to put Brutal as a single only because Billboard say that in a video. Maxgoldman12334 ( talk) 18:14, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
With several recent changes to the article, adding or removing the status of "Brutal" as a single, I want to be clear on the WP:STATUSQUO for the article while this is being discussed. I'm going to assume the status as it not being listed as a single, based on the state of the article at the time this talk page discussion commenced. [4] MPFitz1968 ( talk) 16:37, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
"Brutal" now has a September 3 radio impact day in Italy per Universal Music, so I would say it's a single. Heartfox ( talk) 23:02, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
I've been seeing a couple of edits now changing the release date of the single to January 11, 2022, which is supposedly when it gets serviced to CHR in the US. This needs to be sourced until the date in question, per WP:CRYSTAL. By the way, would that change the release date in the article, since it got released in Italy first back in September? MPFitz1968 ( talk) 20:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
According to Pure Charts, "Happier" is the sixth single of the album. However they don't provide any radio-related information as they usually do. What are we going to do with this? infsai ( talkie? UwU) 08:04, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sour (album) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Sour (album). Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Sour (album) at the Reference desk. |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Sour (album) was a Music good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
|
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I suggest changing the current Instagram-sourced cover image to this CC BY 2.0 image from flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/x1brett/51240528416 Yannn 11 19:41, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
There is edit-warring going on regarding the inclusion/exclusion of this wording in the lede after the name of the album. A recent edit by Livelikemusic cited a discussion about this issue (from about two years ago), as well as MOS:MUSICCAPS. I'd be inclined to stick with the guidelines here and not include this wording, though I note that the album title is displayed all caps at the various music services which allow users to stream or buy the album (iTunes, Amazon, Napster, Spotify, etc.). This does go beyond the argument made about all caps being commonplace, as in how the typeset is done for albums, books, and so forth - that applies to the physical, tangible version of the item. My thinking is it was Rodrigo's (or her record label's) intent to have all caps in terms of representing the name of the album not just in the physical (cover art) sense, but altogether, if that makes any sense. Still, having the "stylized" wording at the beginning of the article is debatable, though judging by the cited discussion from a couple of years ago, applying to Wikipedia's album project as a whole, I'm not so sure my explanation above is justification for the wording at all. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 01:36, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
@ 19saaashi19: Just so you know, Rolling Stone calls the "Cruel Summer"/"Deja Vu" similarly an interpolation, saying "This is the second Sour track to feature a Swift-Antonoff interpolation and writing credit" (per [1]). Even if it is not technically an interpolation, we have a reliable source that calls it one. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 ( let's chat!) 23:13, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
Olivia Rodrigo has an RFC over whether Rodrigo should be called a singer-songwriter in the article, instead of a singer and a songwriter. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. BawinV ( talk) 14:38, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
This tweet [1] from Billboard's chart director Gary Trust is what I've found so far to back the release of the song as Rodrigo's fourth single, when it goes for radio adds next week. I'm thinking a more solid source is needed. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 20:07, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Yeah I kinda agree with you. PopLizard86427 ( talk) 22:01, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
References
Please discuss here regarding the single status of "Brutal". Do not edit war in the article page. BawinV ( talk) 06:15, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
Brutal is not a single. I don't know why you only say that because in a video of Billboard say that. The song is not going to have promotion or it will be sent to the radio. The video was released only for promotion to Apple specifically for an ad in the Procreate app using iPads. I really don’t know why you inmediately think a song is a single because a web article or a video says. A LOT of songs are referenced as a single when the singer released a video for example Write on Me of Fifth Harmony ( https://ew.com/article/2016/05/05/fifth-harmony-write-on-me/) that is only a promotional single because they released a video. So, you should really take a consideration about Brutal being a single. Is not only say like “oh! billboard just called brutal a single, so we should edit and put that the song is officially a single”; no, we need to have more information, if the song is going to have radio airplay or a date of impact, performances, etcetera. But for now i dont think brutal is a single and Olivia is only focus in traitor. Maxgoldman12334 ( talk) 13:21, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
1. She never released any Single Cover for the song like what she did on the first three singles. 2. The song wasn't sent on the radios. 3. It was most likely partnership with apple music prolly a promo song with video. Maxgoldman12334 ( talk) 13:38, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Why is Brutal considered a single when Billboard calls it a single, but songs like Need To Know, by Doja Cat, are not? Billboard literally called that song a single, it had a music video and everything, but since it still hasn’t hit the radio, the editors refused to add it as a single, so you should keep the same energy with Brutal. Newanders22 ( talk) 17:02, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Almost every time a music video is released for a song, editors cherry-pick sources which call the song a single. In one twitter video, Billboard called it a single. In an actual article about the music video, they don't. Insider isn't considered a generally reliable source per WP:RSP (and it doesn't call it a single—it's only cited for the music video release). Nylon is owned by Bustle and Bustle also has no consensus on its reliability at WP:RSP. There are just as much sources that omit the word "single" as ones that include it.
Here are reliable/semi-reliable sources on the topic:
(1) The ones that do not call it a single outnumber the ones that do. (2) If it was an actual single, that would be an odd fact for these established, reputable sources to omit. uDiscover Music is owned by her record label's owner, but I doubt how seriously that should be taken unless Geffen/Interscope actually issues a press release calling it a single. (3) There is no separate digital download/streaming, no physical release, nor a radio impact date. All of this that doesn't matter because Billboard called it a single in one Twitter video and a couple other outlets did? I don't get it. Heartfox ( talk) 00:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
I agree with the point of Heartfox and he show proof! So you need to reconsider to put Brutal as a single only because Billboard say that in a video. Maxgoldman12334 ( talk) 18:14, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
With several recent changes to the article, adding or removing the status of "Brutal" as a single, I want to be clear on the WP:STATUSQUO for the article while this is being discussed. I'm going to assume the status as it not being listed as a single, based on the state of the article at the time this talk page discussion commenced. [4] MPFitz1968 ( talk) 16:37, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
"Brutal" now has a September 3 radio impact day in Italy per Universal Music, so I would say it's a single. Heartfox ( talk) 23:02, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
I've been seeing a couple of edits now changing the release date of the single to January 11, 2022, which is supposedly when it gets serviced to CHR in the US. This needs to be sourced until the date in question, per WP:CRYSTAL. By the way, would that change the release date in the article, since it got released in Italy first back in September? MPFitz1968 ( talk) 20:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
According to Pure Charts, "Happier" is the sixth single of the album. However they don't provide any radio-related information as they usually do. What are we going to do with this? infsai ( talkie? UwU) 08:04, 18 February 2022 (UTC)