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Per my edit summary, here are the sources I found that identify Yelich as Croatian -
Evening Standard - "Her mother Sonja, who is of Croatian descent..."
Vogue - "...Sonja Yelich, a poet and the daughter of Croatian immigrants..."
extra.ie - "Ella’s mother is award-winning New Zealand poet Sonja Yelich and her father, Vic O’Connor, is an engineer. Her mother is of Croatian descent, while her father’s family were Irish immigrants."
Her grandfather is from middle of Serbia - family name Jelic - she cannot be of Croatian descent. Her grandmother is of German (Jewish) descent, so again not Croat [1]Pixius talk 09:33, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Pixius: Even assuming this is true, that doesn't mean she can't be Croatian by ethnicity, unless both her paternal and maternal grandparents are 100% non-Croat. The reliable sources we have suggest that her ethnicity is Croatian, and neither
Jelić nor
Yelich are exclusively Serbian names. At the very least, it can be recognised that there is dispute among reliable sources as to whether she is Serbian or Croatian. Even assuming the most generous position in regards to your argument, I cannot see a reason to completely replace the words "Croatian" with "Serbian" on her page. --
LivelyRatification (
talk) 09:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
@
LivelyRatification: Oook, so you do not understand what ethnicity, nationality and citizenship is. Reliable source is an immigration list and birth certificates, which none of these are from Croatia. The "reliable" sources you have provided there are tabloids, and yellow tabloids without any fact checking. If your mother gave a birth in a potato field, are you a potato? Of course not. You an ethnicity of your mother and father. None of here descendants are Croatian
Pixius talk 11:14, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
There is NO ethnicity parameter in the infobox (it was deprecated years ago). Any discussion of ethnicity would have to go in the article. It already states the region her family was from - that is probably sufficient.
MB 14:57, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
"You might consider as original research" - So if no one mentions publicly available birth certificate, you are not allowed to use it? Honey, you do not have slightest idea what original research is. And come on Sunday in front of Canberra's city hall, i have some citizenships and passports for you, from Indonesia, Kenya, Peru, Andora - you will be their citizen and also, your heritage will switch from "Oustral'ya" to Peruvian, Andorran, Kenyan in a blink of an eye
Pixius talk 10:06, 10 February 2022 (UTC)reply
And while this might be creeping into original research on my part, I feel the need to also point out that the article's subject herself via her Twitter account has said that she
will be getting Croatian citizenship, that she
holds a Croatian passport, and that she is
"proud to be Croatian". (And yes, despite not being verified, this is her Twitter account, per
manymultiplereliablesources.) What do you think is more likely? Is Sonja Yelich, her daughter, and all the sources I've cited are simply lying or misinformed, and that, per SrpskaInfo and FameChain, because two of her grandparents weren't Croatian, all references to any possible Croatian background must be scrubbed from her page? Or is she perhaps, just maybe, a little bit Croatian? --
LivelyRatification (
talk) 20:26, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
By your reasoning you can be a little bit regnant - not pregnant, but also not not pregnant. And in reality, you are perhaps, just maybe, also a little bit an potato from Idaho. Her first half is of Serbian origin, second half is of Jewish/German origin. "Or is she perhaps, just maybe, a little bit Croatian?" - do not ask for mercy for the load of stupidity you have wrote there. And don't even start explaining what original research is. And yes, genealogy websites are more reliable sources as they base their data sets from actual, factual primary sources. Cain of birth certificates are the most reliable source. SrpskaInfo, as well as localised paper has better reasoning and overview, than some reporter "half-away on the globe" writing personal impressions gathered from other, equally, unreliable yellow tabloid sources. And again, you can apply for any passport you want, you cannot be something that you are not Ms Elizabeth Warren the native/Indian heritage or should I call you potato
Pixius talk 10:06, 10 February 2022 (UTC)reply
Jelić family is from the middle of Serbia, 200km away from the nearest Croatian border. Her mother is from the old Herzegovina, today Montenegro and Republika Srpska, again from Serbian part
Pixius talk 22:53, 10 February 2023 (UTC)reply
No, neither geneology websites nor birth certificates typically meet
WP:RS requirements, especially for BLP topics. Consider this your final warning for violations of our
WP:CIVIL policy in the tone and wording of your comments. You'll lose any hope of getting your ideas considered if you cannot write directly and dispassionately, or if you get blocked altogether.
DMacks (
talk) 20:09, 18 February 2023 (UTC)reply
@DMacks Again, genaology web site which uses primary sources, provide an actual evidence and these evidences are from state/country maintained database and/or archive is WP:RS
On second thought are you following me, stalking me around the Wikipedia and issue warnings? Are you harassing me? Was this a treat: "You'll lose any hope of getting your ideas considered if you cannot write directly and dispassionately, or if you get blocked altogether."? Is your behavior also a part of WP:Civil? I don't think so
Pixius talk 21:17, 18 February 2023 (UTC)reply
WP:BLPPRIMARY is clear that birth certificates are not usable;
Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons likewise disallows genealogy websites in general (multiple talk-page discussions there reinforce it). I have no feeling towards or against you, but as admin I get called on keep discussions on-track. I nearly blocked you already for your most recent comment on the Ukranian-dancers talkpage, so as admin I wanted to look for a pattern of behavior to see what admin action to take. I chose the most restrained option. "If you don't follow the rules, you will be blocked" is a standard and neutrally-worded administrative warning.
DMacks (
talk) 00:05, 19 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Aaahhh nice, we have the wrong template on the page
Pixius talk 15:06, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject New Zealand, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
New Zealand and
New Zealand-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New ZealandWikipedia:WikiProject New ZealandTemplate:WikiProject New ZealandNew Zealand articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
Per my edit summary, here are the sources I found that identify Yelich as Croatian -
Evening Standard - "Her mother Sonja, who is of Croatian descent..."
Vogue - "...Sonja Yelich, a poet and the daughter of Croatian immigrants..."
extra.ie - "Ella’s mother is award-winning New Zealand poet Sonja Yelich and her father, Vic O’Connor, is an engineer. Her mother is of Croatian descent, while her father’s family were Irish immigrants."
Her grandfather is from middle of Serbia - family name Jelic - she cannot be of Croatian descent. Her grandmother is of German (Jewish) descent, so again not Croat [1]Pixius talk 09:33, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Pixius: Even assuming this is true, that doesn't mean she can't be Croatian by ethnicity, unless both her paternal and maternal grandparents are 100% non-Croat. The reliable sources we have suggest that her ethnicity is Croatian, and neither
Jelić nor
Yelich are exclusively Serbian names. At the very least, it can be recognised that there is dispute among reliable sources as to whether she is Serbian or Croatian. Even assuming the most generous position in regards to your argument, I cannot see a reason to completely replace the words "Croatian" with "Serbian" on her page. --
LivelyRatification (
talk) 09:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
@
LivelyRatification: Oook, so you do not understand what ethnicity, nationality and citizenship is. Reliable source is an immigration list and birth certificates, which none of these are from Croatia. The "reliable" sources you have provided there are tabloids, and yellow tabloids without any fact checking. If your mother gave a birth in a potato field, are you a potato? Of course not. You an ethnicity of your mother and father. None of here descendants are Croatian
Pixius talk 11:14, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
There is NO ethnicity parameter in the infobox (it was deprecated years ago). Any discussion of ethnicity would have to go in the article. It already states the region her family was from - that is probably sufficient.
MB 14:57, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
"You might consider as original research" - So if no one mentions publicly available birth certificate, you are not allowed to use it? Honey, you do not have slightest idea what original research is. And come on Sunday in front of Canberra's city hall, i have some citizenships and passports for you, from Indonesia, Kenya, Peru, Andora - you will be their citizen and also, your heritage will switch from "Oustral'ya" to Peruvian, Andorran, Kenyan in a blink of an eye
Pixius talk 10:06, 10 February 2022 (UTC)reply
And while this might be creeping into original research on my part, I feel the need to also point out that the article's subject herself via her Twitter account has said that she
will be getting Croatian citizenship, that she
holds a Croatian passport, and that she is
"proud to be Croatian". (And yes, despite not being verified, this is her Twitter account, per
manymultiplereliablesources.) What do you think is more likely? Is Sonja Yelich, her daughter, and all the sources I've cited are simply lying or misinformed, and that, per SrpskaInfo and FameChain, because two of her grandparents weren't Croatian, all references to any possible Croatian background must be scrubbed from her page? Or is she perhaps, just maybe, a little bit Croatian? --
LivelyRatification (
talk) 20:26, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply
By your reasoning you can be a little bit regnant - not pregnant, but also not not pregnant. And in reality, you are perhaps, just maybe, also a little bit an potato from Idaho. Her first half is of Serbian origin, second half is of Jewish/German origin. "Or is she perhaps, just maybe, a little bit Croatian?" - do not ask for mercy for the load of stupidity you have wrote there. And don't even start explaining what original research is. And yes, genealogy websites are more reliable sources as they base their data sets from actual, factual primary sources. Cain of birth certificates are the most reliable source. SrpskaInfo, as well as localised paper has better reasoning and overview, than some reporter "half-away on the globe" writing personal impressions gathered from other, equally, unreliable yellow tabloid sources. And again, you can apply for any passport you want, you cannot be something that you are not Ms Elizabeth Warren the native/Indian heritage or should I call you potato
Pixius talk 10:06, 10 February 2022 (UTC)reply
Jelić family is from the middle of Serbia, 200km away from the nearest Croatian border. Her mother is from the old Herzegovina, today Montenegro and Republika Srpska, again from Serbian part
Pixius talk 22:53, 10 February 2023 (UTC)reply
No, neither geneology websites nor birth certificates typically meet
WP:RS requirements, especially for BLP topics. Consider this your final warning for violations of our
WP:CIVIL policy in the tone and wording of your comments. You'll lose any hope of getting your ideas considered if you cannot write directly and dispassionately, or if you get blocked altogether.
DMacks (
talk) 20:09, 18 February 2023 (UTC)reply
@DMacks Again, genaology web site which uses primary sources, provide an actual evidence and these evidences are from state/country maintained database and/or archive is WP:RS
On second thought are you following me, stalking me around the Wikipedia and issue warnings? Are you harassing me? Was this a treat: "You'll lose any hope of getting your ideas considered if you cannot write directly and dispassionately, or if you get blocked altogether."? Is your behavior also a part of WP:Civil? I don't think so
Pixius talk 21:17, 18 February 2023 (UTC)reply
WP:BLPPRIMARY is clear that birth certificates are not usable;
Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons likewise disallows genealogy websites in general (multiple talk-page discussions there reinforce it). I have no feeling towards or against you, but as admin I get called on keep discussions on-track. I nearly blocked you already for your most recent comment on the Ukranian-dancers talkpage, so as admin I wanted to look for a pattern of behavior to see what admin action to take. I chose the most restrained option. "If you don't follow the rules, you will be blocked" is a standard and neutrally-worded administrative warning.
DMacks (
talk) 00:05, 19 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Aaahhh nice, we have the wrong template on the page
Pixius talk 15:06, 12 November 2021 (UTC)reply