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I've read the book, and while I can't remember the exact quote, I know the "62 percent gay and the rest heterosexual" sentence is inaccurate. The quote was "x% gay, x% straight, x% (single digit) attracted to sheep." That may be interpreted as something of a joke, but that is how the quote goes and it should be double checked or removed. IsaacSapphire 02:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure I agree with the addition of this novel to category:Novels with a pedophile theme [1]... comments? ++ Lar: t/ c 21:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I thought I'd note the author's perspective on this theme. Extracted from the long essay "The Hypocrites of Homosexuality" at his website. He writes:
DanB†DanD 18:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I have to say, I'm actually a little shocked at how this article, which covers one of the most important works of a very notable science fiction author, fails in almost every respect to adequately describe the book and its themes. To start, the plot summary, such as it is, covers only until the end of "Esste". Additionally, several themes are missing, and those that are included are merely listed, with no explanation (with the exception of homosexuality, which is a minor theme at best, and not at all large enough to be the bulk of the article as it is now). There's even almost no mention of the theme of belonging, which is particularly disturbing because that makes up the core of the story - it's one of the only themes that is omnipresent, and is certainly the strongest. Hell, it doesn't even have an infobox!
So, I'm going to make an effort to try and rectify this, and I'd appreciate any help - this article can easily be tripled in length, if not more, if some of us just get to work on it. ~e.o.t.d~ ( 蜻蛉の目• 話す• 貢献) 10:00, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Songmaster/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
This article is beyond a stub, it has thematic descriptions, but there is more that could be said about the major themes. There is a paucity of citable literary criticism, though. I put in just about all I could find when I added the cover. As for importance, it is considered one of Orson Scott Card's more significant works and he is on just about everyone's top 20 Science Fiction writer lists. So at least mid importance. It's no Stranger in a Strange Land but an important work. (I admit bias, it's a favourite of mine, and I have read it multiple times, and did some of the editing here) ++ Lar: t/ c 21:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 10:39, 12 October 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 06:30, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Here the original short story (a novelette, actually) "Mikal's Songbird" is mentioned but nothing is said about 1979's novella "Songhouse", also about Ansset and Esste, which was finalist in the 1980 Hugo Awards. Just for the record. -- 37.11.121.34 ( talk) 20:41, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
I know the archived Card page lists "Mikal's Songbird" as a Hugo and Nebula finalist, but I can't find it on either the (FA) Hugo Award for Best Short Story or Nebula Award for Best Short Story. I think the information is incorrect on Cad's old site. Does anyone have evidence to the contrary? Rachel Helps (BYU) ( talk) 21:50, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
This article has an extremely weird tone and really inconsistent formatting of quotes. The use of flowery language, particularly MOS:EUPHEMISMs like "man/boy love" and "shared the emperor's bed" and random gaps in content like "After many further developments," not only detract from providing a good understanding of the plot, but also seem to soften the blow of the book's (rather flattering) depiction of pederasty. Obviously WP:NPOV applies, and I'm not assigning any intentionality on the part of the editors who wrote the synopsis, but right now the POV is shifted towards Card's rosy view of pedophilic relationship, and WP:CHILDPRO is quite explicit that this cannot be allowed. As an entry in Scott's bibliography that is highly relevant to his larger views on homosexuality, I think having a high-quality article on this book is quite important. Ithinkiplaygames ( talk) 20:15, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
|
I've read the book, and while I can't remember the exact quote, I know the "62 percent gay and the rest heterosexual" sentence is inaccurate. The quote was "x% gay, x% straight, x% (single digit) attracted to sheep." That may be interpreted as something of a joke, but that is how the quote goes and it should be double checked or removed. IsaacSapphire 02:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure I agree with the addition of this novel to category:Novels with a pedophile theme [1]... comments? ++ Lar: t/ c 21:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I thought I'd note the author's perspective on this theme. Extracted from the long essay "The Hypocrites of Homosexuality" at his website. He writes:
DanB†DanD 18:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I have to say, I'm actually a little shocked at how this article, which covers one of the most important works of a very notable science fiction author, fails in almost every respect to adequately describe the book and its themes. To start, the plot summary, such as it is, covers only until the end of "Esste". Additionally, several themes are missing, and those that are included are merely listed, with no explanation (with the exception of homosexuality, which is a minor theme at best, and not at all large enough to be the bulk of the article as it is now). There's even almost no mention of the theme of belonging, which is particularly disturbing because that makes up the core of the story - it's one of the only themes that is omnipresent, and is certainly the strongest. Hell, it doesn't even have an infobox!
So, I'm going to make an effort to try and rectify this, and I'd appreciate any help - this article can easily be tripled in length, if not more, if some of us just get to work on it. ~e.o.t.d~ ( 蜻蛉の目• 話す• 貢献) 10:00, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Songmaster/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
This article is beyond a stub, it has thematic descriptions, but there is more that could be said about the major themes. There is a paucity of citable literary criticism, though. I put in just about all I could find when I added the cover. As for importance, it is considered one of Orson Scott Card's more significant works and he is on just about everyone's top 20 Science Fiction writer lists. So at least mid importance. It's no Stranger in a Strange Land but an important work. (I admit bias, it's a favourite of mine, and I have read it multiple times, and did some of the editing here) ++ Lar: t/ c 21:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 10:39, 12 October 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 06:30, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Here the original short story (a novelette, actually) "Mikal's Songbird" is mentioned but nothing is said about 1979's novella "Songhouse", also about Ansset and Esste, which was finalist in the 1980 Hugo Awards. Just for the record. -- 37.11.121.34 ( talk) 20:41, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
I know the archived Card page lists "Mikal's Songbird" as a Hugo and Nebula finalist, but I can't find it on either the (FA) Hugo Award for Best Short Story or Nebula Award for Best Short Story. I think the information is incorrect on Cad's old site. Does anyone have evidence to the contrary? Rachel Helps (BYU) ( talk) 21:50, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
This article has an extremely weird tone and really inconsistent formatting of quotes. The use of flowery language, particularly MOS:EUPHEMISMs like "man/boy love" and "shared the emperor's bed" and random gaps in content like "After many further developments," not only detract from providing a good understanding of the plot, but also seem to soften the blow of the book's (rather flattering) depiction of pederasty. Obviously WP:NPOV applies, and I'm not assigning any intentionality on the part of the editors who wrote the synopsis, but right now the POV is shifted towards Card's rosy view of pedophilic relationship, and WP:CHILDPRO is quite explicit that this cannot be allowed. As an entry in Scott's bibliography that is highly relevant to his larger views on homosexuality, I think having a high-quality article on this book is quite important. Ithinkiplaygames ( talk) 20:15, 19 January 2022 (UTC)