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While I respect your views which you have expressed in the article on songlines, and I'm sure you put them in in good faith, I don't think they are a NPOV. For example, while songlines are obviously a part of Indigenous Australian culture, linking them to the British leylines implies a certain view of the world associated with a New-Age holistic view. Right? So I don't think this is a NPOV. See what you think of my changes, and let's discuss them here. Cheers, Ray RayNorris 10:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd heard of songlines and read this article hoping to learn about them, and I think I learned very little. A few thoughts and reactions, some stylistic, some on content:
Sorry for the negativity, I'll try to be constructive next time! Pfly 07:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
At the risk of incurring someone's wrath, I've deleted the section which discusses the evidence for animal and human susceptibility to magnetic fields. While the material itself may well be correct, I don't think it belongs here, but in a different article on biomagnetism. As far as I'm aware, there is no evidence cited here or elsewhere that song lines are connected to magnetism. Indeed, as many song-lines traverse the country east-west while the magnetic field goes predominantly north-south, it's hard to see how they can be connected. But even if there was a connection, the material discussing evidence for biomagnetism should be in an article on biomagnetism and not in an article on songlines. RayNorris ( talk) 05:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
I added an {{ NPOV}} tag. Really what I wanted to add was a {{ fiction}} tag — in a few places the article discusses the spirits in the songs as though they were real, rather than as fictional characters — but since these seem to be religious beliefs (?), it seemed mean to just label them "fiction". — Ruakh TALK 18:49, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I had a go at addressing the comments above, and generally edited the article, re-ordering it, removing dupliacted material, etc. I'd welcome suggestions as to what else would improve this article. RayNorris ( talk) 22:32, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
If not the line 'in some cases' should be removed. EdwardLane ( talk)
This was reported as being because they took the objects and tried to memorise them as a list. Most (I think all but I'm not sure) of the children of aboriginal background did not do this - instead they had considered the relative spatial relationships between the objects - and then based on knowing the apple and the ballon were diagonal to each other, and so forth mostly managed to reconstruct the tray correctly - including the orientation of the objects on the tray, (in the image I linked to - follow the drumstick and that points at the stork). Some european children also did this. It was suggested that it was using 'spatial intelligence' rather than 'linguistic intelligence' (or something like that) - but that probably means my attempt at guessing an 'example songline text' above is wrong, and it shouldn't be a list of instructions in order. So perhaps some songlines could not have a direction despite them being the tale of a journey from one place to another. Hmmm - looks like I've argued against my own point. If you see a proper example songline text somewhere please get it in the article EdwardLane ( talk) 09:02, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Another thought would be whether someone has compiled a list of the words and tunes of all/most/some of the various songlines?
And could someone technically skilled put one 'good' example songline next to a map - with the actual music and words of the songline 'translated' and describe how it explains the ways to look at the terrain/locations of the example map. Perhaps it needs someone from Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps but no doubt they would need all the info first to build the map. EdwardLane ( talk) 19:48, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] EdwardLane ( talk) 11:53, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
the headline for this article says "Songlines that criss-cross Australia televised as a series for the first time" - that's been broadcast, so that might well prove one of the most useful resources for this article. The article above contains some implications already that change my perceptions of songlines - artifacts required for some dances for example. EdwardLane ( talk) 08:37, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
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![]() | It is requested that one or more audio files be
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While I respect your views which you have expressed in the article on songlines, and I'm sure you put them in in good faith, I don't think they are a NPOV. For example, while songlines are obviously a part of Indigenous Australian culture, linking them to the British leylines implies a certain view of the world associated with a New-Age holistic view. Right? So I don't think this is a NPOV. See what you think of my changes, and let's discuss them here. Cheers, Ray RayNorris 10:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd heard of songlines and read this article hoping to learn about them, and I think I learned very little. A few thoughts and reactions, some stylistic, some on content:
Sorry for the negativity, I'll try to be constructive next time! Pfly 07:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
At the risk of incurring someone's wrath, I've deleted the section which discusses the evidence for animal and human susceptibility to magnetic fields. While the material itself may well be correct, I don't think it belongs here, but in a different article on biomagnetism. As far as I'm aware, there is no evidence cited here or elsewhere that song lines are connected to magnetism. Indeed, as many song-lines traverse the country east-west while the magnetic field goes predominantly north-south, it's hard to see how they can be connected. But even if there was a connection, the material discussing evidence for biomagnetism should be in an article on biomagnetism and not in an article on songlines. RayNorris ( talk) 05:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
I added an {{ NPOV}} tag. Really what I wanted to add was a {{ fiction}} tag — in a few places the article discusses the spirits in the songs as though they were real, rather than as fictional characters — but since these seem to be religious beliefs (?), it seemed mean to just label them "fiction". — Ruakh TALK 18:49, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I had a go at addressing the comments above, and generally edited the article, re-ordering it, removing dupliacted material, etc. I'd welcome suggestions as to what else would improve this article. RayNorris ( talk) 22:32, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
If not the line 'in some cases' should be removed. EdwardLane ( talk)
This was reported as being because they took the objects and tried to memorise them as a list. Most (I think all but I'm not sure) of the children of aboriginal background did not do this - instead they had considered the relative spatial relationships between the objects - and then based on knowing the apple and the ballon were diagonal to each other, and so forth mostly managed to reconstruct the tray correctly - including the orientation of the objects on the tray, (in the image I linked to - follow the drumstick and that points at the stork). Some european children also did this. It was suggested that it was using 'spatial intelligence' rather than 'linguistic intelligence' (or something like that) - but that probably means my attempt at guessing an 'example songline text' above is wrong, and it shouldn't be a list of instructions in order. So perhaps some songlines could not have a direction despite them being the tale of a journey from one place to another. Hmmm - looks like I've argued against my own point. If you see a proper example songline text somewhere please get it in the article EdwardLane ( talk) 09:02, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Another thought would be whether someone has compiled a list of the words and tunes of all/most/some of the various songlines?
And could someone technically skilled put one 'good' example songline next to a map - with the actual music and words of the songline 'translated' and describe how it explains the ways to look at the terrain/locations of the example map. Perhaps it needs someone from Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps but no doubt they would need all the info first to build the map. EdwardLane ( talk) 19:48, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] EdwardLane ( talk) 11:53, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
the headline for this article says "Songlines that criss-cross Australia televised as a series for the first time" - that's been broadcast, so that might well prove one of the most useful resources for this article. The article above contains some implications already that change my perceptions of songlines - artifacts required for some dances for example. EdwardLane ( talk) 08:37, 19 June 2017 (UTC)