This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jacob21199.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:47, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I moved the sentence "and considered to be "one of Hollywood’s most resiliently offensive racist texts".[ref name="sperb"/]" out of the lede. This is for several reasons. "is considered" is passive voice. Considered by whom? Well, considered by the critic being quoted. The Slate article cited by the editor who added this line, does indeed include that quote from Sperb-- but also states this about the Sperb book: "As cultural history, this is an impressively researched, convincing argument. But Sperb is on shakier ground as a polemicist. He implies that the company has whitewashed (so to speak) its past by burying a moral embarrassment while still reaping profits from it. And ashamed as I am to type this, I’m not sure he’s being entirely fair to Disney." (ref: Lingan) The "controversy" section gives an analysis of the various views of the movie's racism. The single sentence in the lede, quoting a single opinion, fails to give adequate context-- it is one side of a polemic.
In any case, this is material for the body, not for the lede. 76.241.154.140 ( talk) 03:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Footnote 54 links to a bootleg site. Should Wikipedia be linking to bootleg sites?
Rantedia ( talk) 05:39, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
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I ask the permission to put these statements and sources at the Song of the South in the Controversy section. Tell me if there's something that must be modified:
The veteran African American animator Floyd Norman, first black animator at The Walt Disney Company and close collaborator of Walt Disney, who first saw the film as a kid and always supported the film, stated on his blog MrFun's Journal that Song of the South is a remarkable, simple, charming, heart-warming and wonderful film that was never meant to be a documentary on the post-Civil War South and that the African American audience at the time praised the film. He also remarked that all the controversy at the time and today around the movie come from people and detractors with a social and political agenda who chose the movie as an easy target to prove their point and "tend to read too much in the film, issues that are simply not there", using particularly the " Tar Baby" story as an example and praising the relationship between Uncle Remus and Johnny and the animated parts of the film. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]
In a February 1947 interview, printed in The Criterion, Oscar-winning African American actress Hattie McDaniel who appeared in the film defended it by saying, "If I had for one moment considered any part of the picture degrading or harmful to my people I would not have appeared therein." In the same article, James Baskett, who played the role of Uncle Remus, commented, "I believe that certain groups are doing my race more harm in seeking to create dissension than can ever possibly come out of the Song of the South." [8] [9]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.36.52.42 ( talk)
References
I have no connection to the seller of this DVD except that I bought a copy of his product. I have no information about the copyright status of the film. Since it is a major film, since all other home video versions are mentioned in the article, and since the new version is the only way most people can watch the film, it seems to me that it is information of interest to people who love movies. If it is true that this version is "bootleg" then that information could be added to the article. Rick Norwood ( talk) 13:14, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
My section about "Unofficial scans and restorations" were deleted for being mistaken for a pirate copy or for not having a secondary source.
The secondary source SongOfTheSouth.net was added - and is clearly reliable, since it is currently used around 10 times already as a source for this very page. The statements the reference supports, like that the fan restoration contained image cleanup and color correction, are also completely non-controversial, borderline WP:BLUE. The reference has been deemed reliable for more than a decade. I'm sure there's an Wikipedia essay for abusing concerns about references to remove content objected to for completely separate reasons.
17 USC 108(h) also clearly applies, as the movie is within its last 20 years of copyright, not subject to normal commercial exploitation, not available for sale and distributed by a library or archive, including a nonprofit educational institution that functions as such. KristofferR ( talk) 09:16, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
"The Disney theme park ride Splash Mountain, opened in 1989, is based on the film's animated sequences." This is, or very soon will be, outdated information. https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/25/883507841/disney-announces-redesign-of-splash-mountain-after-some-call-ride-themes-racist , https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/experience/america/theme-parks/2021/05/05/disneyland-snow-white-ride-backlash-prince-charming-kiss-without-consent/4962154001/ Kdammers ( talk) 04:26, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
An unsourced section presently reads: "The film (minus the Tar Baby scene which was cut from all American television airings) was also aired on US television as part of the Disney Channel's "Lunch Box" program in the 1980s and 1990s until December 18, 2001."
I'm deleting this for now. I watched TDC endlessly in the 1980s and 90s and am pretty darn sure the film was never rebroadcast there, at least in anything close to its full form (minus the Tar Baby or otherwise). I'm also unsure of how the movie could
I do believe the Tar Baby sequence may have been run in the 1980s as a standalone segment on a prerecorded episode of Donald Duck Presents, but I don't think we should say so until it can be confirmed. Ramapith ( talk) 17:36, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Contrary to common belief, the film premiered not at the Fox Theatre but at the Loew's Grand Theatre. (The Fox would have been ironic since southern rock band Lynard Skynerd recorded their live album there under a Confederate flag.) Colonial Computer 15:20, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Colonial Computer 15:20, 14 November 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22yearswothanks ( talk • contribs)
JayBeeEll, RockabillyRaccoon - Recent edits have deleted and then reverted this "See also" content. Let's discuss if it is appropriate. Or not. And come to an editorial consensus. Thanks - Shearonink ( talk) 18:47, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
I'm confused as to why it would be controversial to suggest that a movie that does not mention the Confederacy, has no references to the Civil War and is set during the Reconstruction era is not relevant to a movement that attempts to glamorize the Confederacy. They're two entirely separate and unrelated topics. It would be like linking salt to Chocolat. RockabillyRaccoon ( talk) 21:32, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
So, should discussion about the movie be removed from the Lost Cause page? RockabillyRaccoon ( talk) 17:04, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Song of the South has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add the information that Song of the South will be available on Netflix starting January 20th 2024. (Source: Netflix marketing email, January 18th, 2024) 2601:648:4200:CC50:1FE:CD03:87C:3321 ( talk) 22:39, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Does the editor who removes factual information believe they are performing some service? Rick Norwood ( talk) 10:40, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Something very strange is happening, so strange that I am going to just report the facts without comment.
I bought a DVD/blu-ray of "Song of the South" new. I watched it. I loved it. The box says Disney.
On sale now on amazon.com is a different edition: "Song of the South DVD - Deluxe Edition Rated: G Format: DVD 4.8 4.8 out of 5 stars 824 ratings 600+ bought in past month"
The box does not say Disney.
A google search for a new release of Song of the South turns up zero reviews. A few hits that seem to be reviews turn out to be reviews of older pirate versions.
I attempted to correct this Wikipedia article on Song of the South, which says that Disney has never released it on home video. My correction was reverted, twice. The most recent reversion is by no less a person than David Eppstein, who writes:
"diff hist Song of the South 22:22 −125 David Eppstein talk contribs (Remove again. User:Rick Norwood, you have been editing here since 2005. You should know what constitutes a reliable source for Wikipedia. Amazon sales links are not reliable sources. Please do not add this material without a reliable source.) Tag: Undo thank"
If anyone can offer an explanation for these events, it would be appreciated. Rick Norwood ( talk) 11:42, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 11 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lindseybean27 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Lindseybean28 ( talk) 21:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jacob21199.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:47, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I moved the sentence "and considered to be "one of Hollywood’s most resiliently offensive racist texts".[ref name="sperb"/]" out of the lede. This is for several reasons. "is considered" is passive voice. Considered by whom? Well, considered by the critic being quoted. The Slate article cited by the editor who added this line, does indeed include that quote from Sperb-- but also states this about the Sperb book: "As cultural history, this is an impressively researched, convincing argument. But Sperb is on shakier ground as a polemicist. He implies that the company has whitewashed (so to speak) its past by burying a moral embarrassment while still reaping profits from it. And ashamed as I am to type this, I’m not sure he’s being entirely fair to Disney." (ref: Lingan) The "controversy" section gives an analysis of the various views of the movie's racism. The single sentence in the lede, quoting a single opinion, fails to give adequate context-- it is one side of a polemic.
In any case, this is material for the body, not for the lede. 76.241.154.140 ( talk) 03:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Footnote 54 links to a bootleg site. Should Wikipedia be linking to bootleg sites?
Rantedia ( talk) 05:39, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Song of the South. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:55, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Song of the South. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:33, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
I ask the permission to put these statements and sources at the Song of the South in the Controversy section. Tell me if there's something that must be modified:
The veteran African American animator Floyd Norman, first black animator at The Walt Disney Company and close collaborator of Walt Disney, who first saw the film as a kid and always supported the film, stated on his blog MrFun's Journal that Song of the South is a remarkable, simple, charming, heart-warming and wonderful film that was never meant to be a documentary on the post-Civil War South and that the African American audience at the time praised the film. He also remarked that all the controversy at the time and today around the movie come from people and detractors with a social and political agenda who chose the movie as an easy target to prove their point and "tend to read too much in the film, issues that are simply not there", using particularly the " Tar Baby" story as an example and praising the relationship between Uncle Remus and Johnny and the animated parts of the film. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]
In a February 1947 interview, printed in The Criterion, Oscar-winning African American actress Hattie McDaniel who appeared in the film defended it by saying, "If I had for one moment considered any part of the picture degrading or harmful to my people I would not have appeared therein." In the same article, James Baskett, who played the role of Uncle Remus, commented, "I believe that certain groups are doing my race more harm in seeking to create dissension than can ever possibly come out of the Song of the South." [8] [9]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.36.52.42 ( talk)
References
I have no connection to the seller of this DVD except that I bought a copy of his product. I have no information about the copyright status of the film. Since it is a major film, since all other home video versions are mentioned in the article, and since the new version is the only way most people can watch the film, it seems to me that it is information of interest to people who love movies. If it is true that this version is "bootleg" then that information could be added to the article. Rick Norwood ( talk) 13:14, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
My section about "Unofficial scans and restorations" were deleted for being mistaken for a pirate copy or for not having a secondary source.
The secondary source SongOfTheSouth.net was added - and is clearly reliable, since it is currently used around 10 times already as a source for this very page. The statements the reference supports, like that the fan restoration contained image cleanup and color correction, are also completely non-controversial, borderline WP:BLUE. The reference has been deemed reliable for more than a decade. I'm sure there's an Wikipedia essay for abusing concerns about references to remove content objected to for completely separate reasons.
17 USC 108(h) also clearly applies, as the movie is within its last 20 years of copyright, not subject to normal commercial exploitation, not available for sale and distributed by a library or archive, including a nonprofit educational institution that functions as such. KristofferR ( talk) 09:16, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
"The Disney theme park ride Splash Mountain, opened in 1989, is based on the film's animated sequences." This is, or very soon will be, outdated information. https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/25/883507841/disney-announces-redesign-of-splash-mountain-after-some-call-ride-themes-racist , https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/experience/america/theme-parks/2021/05/05/disneyland-snow-white-ride-backlash-prince-charming-kiss-without-consent/4962154001/ Kdammers ( talk) 04:26, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
An unsourced section presently reads: "The film (minus the Tar Baby scene which was cut from all American television airings) was also aired on US television as part of the Disney Channel's "Lunch Box" program in the 1980s and 1990s until December 18, 2001."
I'm deleting this for now. I watched TDC endlessly in the 1980s and 90s and am pretty darn sure the film was never rebroadcast there, at least in anything close to its full form (minus the Tar Baby or otherwise). I'm also unsure of how the movie could
I do believe the Tar Baby sequence may have been run in the 1980s as a standalone segment on a prerecorded episode of Donald Duck Presents, but I don't think we should say so until it can be confirmed. Ramapith ( talk) 17:36, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Contrary to common belief, the film premiered not at the Fox Theatre but at the Loew's Grand Theatre. (The Fox would have been ironic since southern rock band Lynard Skynerd recorded their live album there under a Confederate flag.) Colonial Computer 15:20, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Colonial Computer 15:20, 14 November 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22yearswothanks ( talk • contribs)
JayBeeEll, RockabillyRaccoon - Recent edits have deleted and then reverted this "See also" content. Let's discuss if it is appropriate. Or not. And come to an editorial consensus. Thanks - Shearonink ( talk) 18:47, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
I'm confused as to why it would be controversial to suggest that a movie that does not mention the Confederacy, has no references to the Civil War and is set during the Reconstruction era is not relevant to a movement that attempts to glamorize the Confederacy. They're two entirely separate and unrelated topics. It would be like linking salt to Chocolat. RockabillyRaccoon ( talk) 21:32, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
So, should discussion about the movie be removed from the Lost Cause page? RockabillyRaccoon ( talk) 17:04, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Song of the South has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add the information that Song of the South will be available on Netflix starting January 20th 2024. (Source: Netflix marketing email, January 18th, 2024) 2601:648:4200:CC50:1FE:CD03:87C:3321 ( talk) 22:39, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Does the editor who removes factual information believe they are performing some service? Rick Norwood ( talk) 10:40, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Something very strange is happening, so strange that I am going to just report the facts without comment.
I bought a DVD/blu-ray of "Song of the South" new. I watched it. I loved it. The box says Disney.
On sale now on amazon.com is a different edition: "Song of the South DVD - Deluxe Edition Rated: G Format: DVD 4.8 4.8 out of 5 stars 824 ratings 600+ bought in past month"
The box does not say Disney.
A google search for a new release of Song of the South turns up zero reviews. A few hits that seem to be reviews turn out to be reviews of older pirate versions.
I attempted to correct this Wikipedia article on Song of the South, which says that Disney has never released it on home video. My correction was reverted, twice. The most recent reversion is by no less a person than David Eppstein, who writes:
"diff hist Song of the South 22:22 −125 David Eppstein talk contribs (Remove again. User:Rick Norwood, you have been editing here since 2005. You should know what constitutes a reliable source for Wikipedia. Amazon sales links are not reliable sources. Please do not add this material without a reliable source.) Tag: Undo thank"
If anyone can offer an explanation for these events, it would be appreciated. Rick Norwood ( talk) 11:42, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 11 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lindseybean27 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Lindseybean28 ( talk) 21:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)