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The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv ( talk) 08:00, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Some Enchanted Evening (song) → Some Enchanted Evening – The song is the obvious and very clear and uncontroversial WP:PRIMARY TOPIC; all of the other three entries on the now-primarily-titled disambiguation page are simply minor usages clearly based on the famous song. I'm not sure how or why this article on the song was titled with a piped title in the first place. Softlavender ( talk) 07:12, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Supports:
I trimmed the list of "Recordings" as follows: I trimmed the redlinks; the instrumentals; and the TV and movie performances which aren't actual recordings. Namely:
- John Laurenz
- Victor Wilson, 1975
- Sven-Olof Sandberg with Varetéorkestern Cond.: Åke Jelving. The Swedish lyrics were written by Stig Bergendorff and Gösta Bernhard. The Swedish title is "En förtrollad afton" (recorded in Stockholm on September 19, 1952. It was released on the 78 rpm record His Master's Voice X 7828)
- Paul Weston and Orchestra (instrumental)
- Jon Bon Jovi - on Ally McBeal
- Bert (muppet) - On the Muppet Show
- Harrison Ford in the film American Graffiti
I also trimmed this bit of trivia in the body text: "The song is sung by an itinerant chanteuse in a pivotal scene in the movie Crossing Delancey."
Also, the existing list of notable recordings could use more dates and then it should be put in chronological order. EDIT: I've put the recordings in chronological order, with the exception of the two which do not have dates. Softlavender ( talk) 00:46, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
There is a wonderful version by Al Jolson. It should be included in the list. 98.162.136.248 ( talk) 03:21, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
Re: "According to the running commentary on the DVD release of South Pacific, this song provides an example of Oscar Hammerstein II's use of verbs in a song. The DVD commentary mentions that Lehman Engel remembered how Hammerstein wanted to write a song based around verbs, but waited ten years to do so before he wrote this song.":
Don't all sentences, and thus virtually all lyrics have verbs? Isn't it generally agreed that since verbs show action, virtually all sentences except "to be" sentences are "based around verbs"? The verbs in "Some Enchanted Evening" are pretty ordinary and not especially emphasized. I really haven't a clue what the above paragraph in italics is trying to say. TheScotch ( talk) 09:33, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
The paragraph as it currently reads is not acceptable. If you want something about verbs to stay, you'd better post a verbatim transcription of the relevant portion of the DVD commentary here, and we can try to sort it out.
Re: "To me, though, if that's what the commentary says, it makes as much sense as anything, because there's not a lot else in this article."
I don't see logic in this statement. The article says, for example, that "Some Enchanted Evening" is a song by Oscar Hammerstein II and Richard Rodgers from the Broadway musical South Pacific. That makes perfect sense and therefore makes appreciably more sense than the bit about verbs. (I doubt very much, by the way, that the commentary is accurately quoted.) In any case, if we have nothing especially to say about this song, why have the article in the first place?
Re: "UPDATE: The info, which was added by Yip1982, also included this sentence: 'The song is rich with verbs, such as "see", "hear" and "find."' -- but someone deleted that part. It might be worth re-adding."
It's not worth re-adding. All three verbs are utterly plain and common, and the song is not "richer with verbs" than any other song. TheScotch ( talk) 07:07, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm struggling with a laptop pad, rather than a mouse, and I didn't edit my comment after I first noticed you'd replied. You're going pretty fast here. Can Yip1982 give us something we can accurately put quotation marks around? (What did Ssilvers mean when he said he "added the verbs into the text"?) TheScotch ( talk) 07:41, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't believe that more than one colon is ever necessary. We only need comments to be alternately indented and not indented. In any case, please do not edit any comment of mine in any way. I am certainly willing to wait for an actual DVD commentary quote. Okay, I can barely make out the Engel passage from Google books. It seems to say each section of the song is organized around a key verb. Well, that's very different. That could certainly go in the article. As for the words-and-music matching quote, that could go in the article as well maybe. (Still struggling with this awful pad--sorry.) TheScotch ( talk) 08:18, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
It seems that everything that really needs to be is referenced, except possibly for the precise DVD in question (so that can be tagged inline if desired, instead of up top). Softlavender ( talk) 03:48, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Here is some material I've found relating to the Lehman Engel comments about the song.
I'm referring to the 2006 Fox DVD release of the 1958 film version of South Pacific with Gaynor and Brazzi. This is part of the running commentary of the film on the first disc by Ted Chapin and Gerard Alessandrini. Gerard Alessandrini mentions that Hammerstein told Lehman Engel that he wanted to write a 'verb' lyric ten years before he wrote South Pacific. This is part of the 2006 Fox DVD release and also part of the recent 2008 Blu-Ray version of the film.
- Lehman Engel, the great conductor and teacher of musical theatre, used to tell his class that – you can confirm this or deny it – that Hammerstein had told him that for about ten years prior to writing the song, he was searching for a song that he wanted to write – a lyric that was a "verb" lyric that was all about seeing, hearing, doing, feeling – taking action, and then he finally found it with this character. And indeed if you listen to the lyric, "you may see a stranger", "you may hear her laughing", and then take action and do it. And then Rodgers just scored it with the emphasis on the verbs. So it's the "verb" song."
Softlavender ( talk) 09:27, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Unfortunately, IMDB is not a WP:Reliable source. See WP:IMDB. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 23:18, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi. First of all, happy holidays! I think that you and I have brought this little article forward quite a bit from where it was last year. I am very pleased by its progress. I've just added the acting awards, which are online. Someone else added a ref for the #1 hit. The list of recording artists should be referenced. Some of it can be verified on Allmusic.com and some can be referenced here. I agree that it is time consuming to do, but it does not need to be done now - eventually, people will come up with references. But if we are going to say that something was a #1 hit, that requires a cite needed tag. You're right that I promised to source the cultural references, and now I have done it. Sorry for the delay! Perhaps you could take a look at this and at Allmusic.com to try to find some refs for the list of recordings? No problem if you're too busy. But please don't remove cn tags, even if you think they're unsightly. They are how Wikipedia alerts people that something is needed - indeed, that is how we got someone to come and help us reference the #1 hit info. All the best. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 02:52, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Someone tried to expand the popular culture section into a long bullet-point list that looks like WP:TRIVIA. The more compact narrative paragraph is, I believe, more appropriate for an encyclopedia article. Also, there is no reason to subdivide the relatively short sections of this article further. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 17:10, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
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Ezio Pinza was a Baritone ( mid range ) male singer : not a Bass ( lowest voice ) If you listen to the recording of him singing Some Enchanted Evening you will clearly hear him singing Baritone. A quick Google search reveals his vocal range ( in scientific pitch notation) to be from A2 to D4 Baritone : definitely not Bass. -- 49.181.206.109
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The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv ( talk) 08:00, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Some Enchanted Evening (song) → Some Enchanted Evening – The song is the obvious and very clear and uncontroversial WP:PRIMARY TOPIC; all of the other three entries on the now-primarily-titled disambiguation page are simply minor usages clearly based on the famous song. I'm not sure how or why this article on the song was titled with a piped title in the first place. Softlavender ( talk) 07:12, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Supports:
I trimmed the list of "Recordings" as follows: I trimmed the redlinks; the instrumentals; and the TV and movie performances which aren't actual recordings. Namely:
- John Laurenz
- Victor Wilson, 1975
- Sven-Olof Sandberg with Varetéorkestern Cond.: Åke Jelving. The Swedish lyrics were written by Stig Bergendorff and Gösta Bernhard. The Swedish title is "En förtrollad afton" (recorded in Stockholm on September 19, 1952. It was released on the 78 rpm record His Master's Voice X 7828)
- Paul Weston and Orchestra (instrumental)
- Jon Bon Jovi - on Ally McBeal
- Bert (muppet) - On the Muppet Show
- Harrison Ford in the film American Graffiti
I also trimmed this bit of trivia in the body text: "The song is sung by an itinerant chanteuse in a pivotal scene in the movie Crossing Delancey."
Also, the existing list of notable recordings could use more dates and then it should be put in chronological order. EDIT: I've put the recordings in chronological order, with the exception of the two which do not have dates. Softlavender ( talk) 00:46, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
There is a wonderful version by Al Jolson. It should be included in the list. 98.162.136.248 ( talk) 03:21, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
Re: "According to the running commentary on the DVD release of South Pacific, this song provides an example of Oscar Hammerstein II's use of verbs in a song. The DVD commentary mentions that Lehman Engel remembered how Hammerstein wanted to write a song based around verbs, but waited ten years to do so before he wrote this song.":
Don't all sentences, and thus virtually all lyrics have verbs? Isn't it generally agreed that since verbs show action, virtually all sentences except "to be" sentences are "based around verbs"? The verbs in "Some Enchanted Evening" are pretty ordinary and not especially emphasized. I really haven't a clue what the above paragraph in italics is trying to say. TheScotch ( talk) 09:33, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
The paragraph as it currently reads is not acceptable. If you want something about verbs to stay, you'd better post a verbatim transcription of the relevant portion of the DVD commentary here, and we can try to sort it out.
Re: "To me, though, if that's what the commentary says, it makes as much sense as anything, because there's not a lot else in this article."
I don't see logic in this statement. The article says, for example, that "Some Enchanted Evening" is a song by Oscar Hammerstein II and Richard Rodgers from the Broadway musical South Pacific. That makes perfect sense and therefore makes appreciably more sense than the bit about verbs. (I doubt very much, by the way, that the commentary is accurately quoted.) In any case, if we have nothing especially to say about this song, why have the article in the first place?
Re: "UPDATE: The info, which was added by Yip1982, also included this sentence: 'The song is rich with verbs, such as "see", "hear" and "find."' -- but someone deleted that part. It might be worth re-adding."
It's not worth re-adding. All three verbs are utterly plain and common, and the song is not "richer with verbs" than any other song. TheScotch ( talk) 07:07, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm struggling with a laptop pad, rather than a mouse, and I didn't edit my comment after I first noticed you'd replied. You're going pretty fast here. Can Yip1982 give us something we can accurately put quotation marks around? (What did Ssilvers mean when he said he "added the verbs into the text"?) TheScotch ( talk) 07:41, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't believe that more than one colon is ever necessary. We only need comments to be alternately indented and not indented. In any case, please do not edit any comment of mine in any way. I am certainly willing to wait for an actual DVD commentary quote. Okay, I can barely make out the Engel passage from Google books. It seems to say each section of the song is organized around a key verb. Well, that's very different. That could certainly go in the article. As for the words-and-music matching quote, that could go in the article as well maybe. (Still struggling with this awful pad--sorry.) TheScotch ( talk) 08:18, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
It seems that everything that really needs to be is referenced, except possibly for the precise DVD in question (so that can be tagged inline if desired, instead of up top). Softlavender ( talk) 03:48, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Here is some material I've found relating to the Lehman Engel comments about the song.
I'm referring to the 2006 Fox DVD release of the 1958 film version of South Pacific with Gaynor and Brazzi. This is part of the running commentary of the film on the first disc by Ted Chapin and Gerard Alessandrini. Gerard Alessandrini mentions that Hammerstein told Lehman Engel that he wanted to write a 'verb' lyric ten years before he wrote South Pacific. This is part of the 2006 Fox DVD release and also part of the recent 2008 Blu-Ray version of the film.
- Lehman Engel, the great conductor and teacher of musical theatre, used to tell his class that – you can confirm this or deny it – that Hammerstein had told him that for about ten years prior to writing the song, he was searching for a song that he wanted to write – a lyric that was a "verb" lyric that was all about seeing, hearing, doing, feeling – taking action, and then he finally found it with this character. And indeed if you listen to the lyric, "you may see a stranger", "you may hear her laughing", and then take action and do it. And then Rodgers just scored it with the emphasis on the verbs. So it's the "verb" song."
Softlavender ( talk) 09:27, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Unfortunately, IMDB is not a WP:Reliable source. See WP:IMDB. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 23:18, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi. First of all, happy holidays! I think that you and I have brought this little article forward quite a bit from where it was last year. I am very pleased by its progress. I've just added the acting awards, which are online. Someone else added a ref for the #1 hit. The list of recording artists should be referenced. Some of it can be verified on Allmusic.com and some can be referenced here. I agree that it is time consuming to do, but it does not need to be done now - eventually, people will come up with references. But if we are going to say that something was a #1 hit, that requires a cite needed tag. You're right that I promised to source the cultural references, and now I have done it. Sorry for the delay! Perhaps you could take a look at this and at Allmusic.com to try to find some refs for the list of recordings? No problem if you're too busy. But please don't remove cn tags, even if you think they're unsightly. They are how Wikipedia alerts people that something is needed - indeed, that is how we got someone to come and help us reference the #1 hit info. All the best. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 02:52, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Someone tried to expand the popular culture section into a long bullet-point list that looks like WP:TRIVIA. The more compact narrative paragraph is, I believe, more appropriate for an encyclopedia article. Also, there is no reason to subdivide the relatively short sections of this article further. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 17:10, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Some Enchanted Evening. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:58, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Ezio Pinza was a Baritone ( mid range ) male singer : not a Bass ( lowest voice ) If you listen to the recording of him singing Some Enchanted Evening you will clearly hear him singing Baritone. A quick Google search reveals his vocal range ( in scientific pitch notation) to be from A2 to D4 Baritone : definitely not Bass. -- 49.181.206.109