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The article looks in quite bad shape at the moment, due to following errors:
1)The lead section identifies the nationality and the occupation of Rotaru based on the imagination of her fans editing the article. Proposal: to use the nationality and occupation what she herself uses to identify herself on her official biography.
2)The article includes dubious claims that are unsourced. Proposal: to either source the claims or remove them.
3)The biography section is poorly written and too long to digest. Most of the info is insignificant and the significant info could be concentrated to half the size of the current biography section.
4)The 'Fans of Sofia Rotaru' section is unencyclopedic and insignificant. I mean, If I wanted to read a whole section about her stalker or her impersonator, I'd go to Russian gossip sites. The people who created her websites are highly irrelevant in an encyclopedia and will be removed.
Dear fans of Sofia Rotaru. Please make these corrections yourself. If you don't, somebody else will in close days to come. --
Jaan Pärn (
talk)
07:59, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
P.S. Please take a look at the comments I've made by making the changes. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 15:38, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
You haven't provided any source for your suggestions. Please discuss before changing and try to support your edits with a valid verifiable argument, for each of your points, or at least propose a new wording here before blindly changing the whole article as you simply feel. Thank you.--
Rubikonchik (
talk)
16:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Here is just a random selection of sites where Sofia Rotaru is presented as a singer of at least four countries: USSR, Russia, Ukraine and Moldova.
http://who-is-who.com.ua/bookmaket/olimp2006/12/153.html http://www.123exp-biographies.com/t/00034285611/ http://www.spock.com/Sofia-Rotaru http://www.discogs.com/artist/%D0%A1%D0%BE%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%8F+%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%83?anv=Sofia+Rotaru http://slovari.yandex.ru/dict/who-is-who/article/cult/cul1-159.htm&stpar1=1.12.1 http://www.peoples.ru/art/music/stage/rotaru/index.html http://www.biograph.ru/bank/rotaru_sm.htm
-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 22:41, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
1) Krugozor was not a label but a magazine where Melodiya published flexi-discs.
2) removed the WP:PEACOCK
3) Russian edition of Postimees is not 'the press' and the article does not say 'This Is All We Have'.
4) replaced the mess of an opening statement with the opening statement from her official biography.
Please comment before reverting! --
Jaan Pärn (
talk)
09:05, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
The discussion has turned into a monologue once again, so I'll present it in a nutshell. Most of the material here is a violation WP:VERIFIABILITY, which says:"Any material lacking a reliable source may be removed," and: "It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced." My request for sources has been up on this talk page since April 28 (see Talk:Sofia Rotaru#Change of content, so I suggest anybody who is interested in keeping some specific info in the article, to start inserting citations right this moment!
Another major issue was the content of the "Fans of Sofia Rotaru". It's obviously sourced, but its topic is not the singer herself nor even her reception, but the leading fans and the webpages they've created. This was a violation of WP:Notability, specifically WP:Notability (web) and has been ruthlessly removed. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 14:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Please, stop contributing with cotroversial unproven information. Please contribute with proven data which finds consensus. Thank you.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 17:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Jaan Pärn, please, stop contributing with cotroversial unproven information. So far your edits seem quite disruptive to me. Please contribute with proven data which finds consensus. Thank you.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 17:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
1) A nation doesn't own a person, vice versa. Per WP:Citizenship and nationality:"Nationality denotes informal membership in or identification with a particular nation."
- Exactly, even today Russian include Sofia Rotaru in all ratings as the person of the year and etc... even though she does not have Russian citizenship. Also, do you know any other singer not having Russian citizenship and having so many official Russian state awards (this goes without mentioning top positions in the radio charts)? -- Rubikonchik ( talk) 18:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
- Moreover, if you check live interviews with her (on youtube "Women's stories"), you will clearly hear that she says I'm Moldavian, Ukrainian and Russian. -- Rubikonchik ( talk) 22:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
2) Krugozor was not a label but a magazine where Melodiya published flexi-discs.
- Krugozor was a magazine, but also an affiliate label of Melodiya. Flexi-discs released under this label were not labelled Melodiya.
3)Russian edition of Postimees is not 'the press' and the article does not say 'This Is All We Have
- To make a long story short, you may perform a search in Russian on yandex.ru, for example, with following key words "queen (koroleva), prima, rotaru, sex symbol" -- Rubikonchik ( talk) 18:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
4) replaced the mess of an opening statement with the opening statement from her official biography.
- Do you know that she never wrote anythiong officially on her site? Those who contributed with the text are fans from www.fortuna-rotaru.narod.ru and partially from www.rotarunews.narod.ru (Galina Starodubova, the one who threatened subsequently Sofia Rotaru with violent death, was member of the second)
5)And one more from Lvivske: that doesnt make sense.
- What is this about?-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 18:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
CONCLUSION: Jaan Pärn, please check out what's behind the comments and give your arguments before reverting.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 18:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
2)The article includes dubious claims that are unsourced. Proposal: to either source the claims or remove them.
3)The biography section is poorly written and too long to digest. Most of the info is insignificant and the significant info could be concentrated to half the size of the current biography section.
4)The 'Fans of Sofia Rotaru' section is a violation of
WP:Notability (web) and
WP:NOTLINK. --
Jaan Pärn (
talk)
19:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
RESUME OF CONCLUSIONS: Looks like you do not want to contrubute constructively, but rather destructively. Wikipedia is not a battle ground, but a place for common healthy sense of constructive contribution.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 22:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
References
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She is considered national singer in four countries. It is strange that Estonian Jaan Pärn tries to delete portins of the article, whereas even Estonian newspaper calls her the Pop Queen! Here is a random googling:
Also, check this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo7Xvv4VgSA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzVvATkPuRQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivnHJQn5ShE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3QuahinuOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNxuy2y7Po8 (about Galina Starodubova, the crazy fan who threatened to kill Sofia Rotaru, there are also at least nudreed articles on the internet).-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 23:03, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
The Sofia Rotaru#Fan scene section is unencyclopedic and misses significance. I mean, If I wanted to read a whole section about her stalker or her impersonator, I'd go to Russian gossip sites. A list of her fan clubs, websites and the people who established them are irrelevant in an encyclopedia and will be removed in a couple of days. Meanwhile, everybody has time to prove the opposite and bring sources, which discuss the fan scene.-- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 13:37, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
and there are more, this is just about Sofia Rotaru and Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov (aka Japanese / Yaponchik)-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 23:05, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
here you will find hudnreds of articles about Galina Starodubova trheatening and blackmailing Sofia Rotaru...--
Rubikonchik (
talk)
23:05, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Please, don't be ridiculous. It's simply funny how you turn clear evidence into "gossip" by your mere subjective interpretation, with tens and probably hundreds of articles on the topic in front of you... Please, stop your continuous disruption.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 00:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Most of Sofia Rotaru#Fan scene still is a list of fan clubs and their establishers. Do you have sources (even in Russian) covering this topic in general (not one by one)? -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 10:18, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm in agreement with Jaan Pärn on this. As it stands right now, the Fan Scene section of this article suffers from extensive original research and lack of notability. Just because a bunch of fan sites exist does not mean that they get to be included - or that you can use them as references. For example, it's inappropriate to say "There are fan clubs in (x), (y), (z)" and then have refs to fan clubs in those areas. The rest of the section has no reliable sources on it, and it needs a huge cleanup. I'd support a huge, huge paring down of this section to only what's verifiable by secondary sources. For an example of a section that's at least marginally better, look at Twilight (series)#The Twilight Phenomenon. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:03, 24 May 2009 (UTC) Oh, and as a side note, I see at least two links to http://www.bez15mechta.org/, which is a spam site. So I'm going to remove those. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:04, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
The source for the claim appears to be the oral statement made by Deputy Chairman of the State Tax Administration Serhii Lekar. The summary statement, as communicated by the Ukrainian News Agency can be found here: http://www.ukranews.com/eng/article/137362.html . According to it, Rotaru did declare the highest income of the Ukrainian celebrities, but does not give anything on the sum. Even if he did, an encyclopedia like Wiki cannot base such a contentious claim (Rotaru earning more than any other entertainer in the world besides The Police) on an oral statement (mis?)interpreted by newspapers before it is included in a comprehensive report like the one by Forbes. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 10:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
I've removed a whole lot of text from this section. It's sort of a violation of WP:EL to have links to all the fanclubs in reference tags. Also, I've added fact tags after every sentence. I have no idea why Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov or Dionis Kelm are notable enough to be listed here, so we need some clarification there. I don't even understand Dionis Kelm's role in this - is he/she a tribute act? Other text can be added to this section, but it must be referenced. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 05:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
The prose of the current Early life an career section is difficult to follow. This is due to an extremely loose time frame of the section which generally should be in a strict time order. I have tried to improve that by moving general remarks about her artistry, legacy, nationality, and personal life to appropriate sections, but the Early life and career section still needs a great deal of work.
Another concern is the total lack of inline citations, which make the text unverifiable. Also please note that per WP:ALBUM and WP:SONGS, original album and song titles should be presented, not their translations. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 13:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Rubikonchik ( talk · contribs), please don't just blindly undo everything that Jaan Parn did. Their edits were really helpful to making this article better, and I fully support them. It's tendentious to ignore all of his work. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 22:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
AnnYong's suggestion was not to copy the title of Twilight (series)#The Twilight Phenomenon but to take a look at it as an example of a better written fan section. In Twilight (series)#The Twilight Phenomenon, the term 'phenomenon' is sourced whereas in Sofia Rotaru#Sofia Rotaru Phenomenon it is not, therefore the header is WP:OR at its least and furthermore a WP:PEACOCK term. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 15:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
to tell you the truth, there is also a beer called Chervona Ruta with the face of Sofia Rotaru on the etiquette (as well as women's bags, etc...) I understand that the title has to be litterally be sourced. Ok, I'll check for sources. In the meanwhile, I propose either to leave the section with the name "Fan Scene" (with the actual contents) or think of a more appropriate title to cover the last edit.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 15:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
By the way, I have provided links to three different articles (Bulagrian, Ukrainian and Russian) referring to inetrnational press regarding the latest mobster affair with Sofia Rotaru's name.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 08:31, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
By the way, speaking of phenomenon, just by random googling I found already many different sources mentioning Sofia Rotaru and what is going on around her as the phenomenon 1) "Небо - это ты...", Олег ВЕРГЕЛИС, - Почему возник психоз вокруг Софии Ротару - «Киевские ведомости», 5 марта 2004г; 2) http://www.segodnya.ua/interview/12050373.html 3) http://www.kp.ru/daily/23409/34318/ 4) http://www.prazdnikinfo.ru/5/18/i21_3492.htm 5) http://www.newsmusic.ru/news_3_14920.htm -- Rubikonchik ( talk) 21:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I cannot get my hands on the first source, the second one is an interview with Rotaru. How could an interview with a singer establish she is called a phenomenon? The third one is a tabloid. The title of the fourth site speaks for itself - translating into PartyInfo.ru. The fifth one is an interview with Kirkorov where I cannot spot any synonyms for the term 'phenomenon'. So what you have presented, is evidence for nothing. Try again. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 22:20, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
1) link for the first article: http://www.sofiarotaru.com/news/events/event:NeboEtoTy
2) Here is for the second article: "The family of Sofia Rotaru is considered a phenomenon of the show-business..."
See, it's the journalist who is saying this, just like in the article about The Twilight...
И САМИ ЛЮБОВЬ СОХРАНИЛИ, И СВОИХ ДЕТЕЙ НАУЧИЛИ. Семью Ротару считают феноменом отечественного шоу-бизнеса: обычно среди представителей этой профессии не встретишь человека, сохранившего свой брак на долгие десятилетия. А вот София Михайловна со своим мужем Анатолием Евдокименко прожила прожила более трех десятков лет, пока Анатолий Кириллович не ушел из жизни. Но свою большую любовь родители словно передали детям. Сын Ротару Руслан и невестка Светлана поженились в аккурат в день серебряной свадьбы Софии Михайловны и Анатолия Кирилловича. Их брак уже также можно назвать проверенным временем — 15-ю годами, и судя по всему, расставаться супруги не собираются.
«Я бы посоветовала всем молодоженам: в первую очередь научиться терпению, состраданию, взаимопониманию – и стараться подольше сохранить любовь», — как-то заметила Ротару.
Алена Медведева
3) third article: Yevgeny Yevtushenko wrote athe following poem to Sofia Rotaru "... The people are starving: they are hungry for music. And women are moaning "how thin she is!..."
By the way, this is not tabloid (see explanation above).
«Голод на музыку»
- София Михайловна, когда-то Евгений Евтушенко посвятил вам проникновенное стихотворение, где были строки: «Народ голодает: на музыку голод. И охают бабы: «Какая худая!..»
4) fourth article: "Why does Sofia Rotaru gather full concert halls, stadiums in Russia? - This is indeed the phenomenon of Rotaru herself. She is living her renaissance right now: she released a quality product, filmed expensive clips, created the image of a beautiful mature woman. This was not done either by Alla Pugacheva, nor Larisa Dolina, who are in the stage of artistic decline at this moment...."
А почему София Ротару собирает полные залы, стадионы в России?
- Это как раз феномен самой Ротару. У нее сейчас ренессанс: выдала качественный продукт, сняла дорогие клипы, создала красивый образ зрелой женщины. Это не сделали ни Алла Пугачева, ни Лариса Долина, у которых сейчас творческий спад.*
5) fifth article: speaks of Sofia Rotaru' unattained level by any other Russian singer. By the way, this article refers to her as Russian again, so this goes for the argument of who she is one more time.
6)
http://www.rma.ru/show/news895.html;30 - Sofia Rotaru became in 2008 the most aired singer in Moscow with "I will call aaplanet with your name / Ya nazovu palnetu imenem tvoim" (next audio file to be uploaded)
7) http://show.oboz.ua/article/8632.htm - Sofia Rotaru took the first place in the rating of the show queens of Ukraine (goes also for the argument about "Pop Queen" as declared by the Estonian newspaper)-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 08:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Here we go again. Rubikonchik, please show sentence by sentence, where exactly did we reach agreement on adding the info in your newest edits on this article? -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 08:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
This is what we have as of today:
Sofia Rotaru (full name Sofia Mihailovna Rotaru-Evdokimenko; Romanian: Sofia Rotaru Ukrainian: Софiя Ротару) is a Ukrainian [1], of Moldovan origin, formerly Soviet singer and pop star. She is known for combining a lyrical deep rich voice, sex appeal, and social or religious themes. In the former USSR her career was marked by her stage success and numerous controversies. She has been named the "Queen of Pop" by the media [2]. Sofia Rotaru is one of the highest paid singers in the world and the highest paid singer in Ukraine. In 2008, she declared revenue significantly higher than 500 million hryvnia (about $100 million). [3]
In 1986, she was the second female pop singer to receive the prestigious title of " People's Artist of USSR" and in 2000 she was named The Singer of the XXth Century. Today Sofia Rotaru is a Citizen of Ukraine and a Meritorious Citizen of Crimea and Yalta. Her repertoire consists of more than 400 songs performed in the Russian, Ukrainian, Moldavian, Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian, Serbian, German, French, English and Italian languages. The city of Yalta is her main residence, although she also lives in Moscow, Kiev, and Baden-Baden. She has received numerous awards, including: Meritorious Artist of the Ukrainian SSR, People's Artist of Ukraine, People's Artist of Moldavian SSR, People's Artist of USSR, Laureate of the Young Communist League Prize, Hero of Moldova, and Cavalier of the Republican Order of Moldova. in August 2002 Former President of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma and President of Russia Vladimir Putin gave awards to Sofia Rotaru (for her 55th birthday), bestowing upon her the high rank of the Hero of Ukraine for her "outstanding personal merits in the sphere of art" [4], and the Russian order "For merits before the Nation", respectively. While Sofia Rotaru commonly goes by her last name, her official last name is Yevdokymenko-Rotaru ( Ukrainian: Євдокименко-Ротару). Yevdokymenko was the surname of her late husband. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rubikonchik ( talk • contribs) 16:21, July 6, 2009
Alright, I've given the lead a shot. In general, leads should have a general overview of the person's career. I added in a line about how her career started (maybe I got it wrong?) and for how long it's been continuing. I also moved most of the Awards stuff down to the Awards section, and I tried to combine a bunch of the old text with the new. Oh, and I added her date of birth, which was missing for some reason. Thoughts? — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 16:56, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
References
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Jaan, could you maybe explain why you deleted a reference to http://naviny.by/rubrics/bomond/2008/08/07/ic_news_121_295153/ and instead put in a dubious tag? Why is that link not acceptable? I ran it through Google's translate service and it seems to say what the text did. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 13:00, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
(copied from this edit): The issue with the revenues of Sofia Rotaru is a quite simple one and should not be confused with the article List of highest paid musicians in 2008 per se. I undertstand and agree with the decision to delete List of highest paid musicians in 2008 as none of the sources cited Sofia Rotaru as second in the list and that Forbes' list itself was not cited by any other secondary source. The only reason why I was looking to restore its talk page, is that on it I have provided numerous links to the articles of most respectful sources citing clear unambiguous information about the revenues of Sofia Rotaru in 2008. All of this is just to spare the time (my time). If User:Erikupoeg keeps inserting the tag "dubious-discuss", by deleting my sources which clearly state the amount declared, I'll have to add ten or twenty references if necessary.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 14:43, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
The source that you cite: http://www.dengi.ua/news/39082.html does not quote the official on stating 100mln as Rotaru's revenues but merely synthesises his two statements made in entirely different contexts. Your other sources are just as synthetic, provided they even bother to cite their sources. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 16:17, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
There are plenty of other sources, remember, Kommersant, Argumenty i Fakty, Komsomolskaya Pravda, Belorusskie novosti, etc, etc, etc... What methods are they using? Again, I repeat, please avoid giving your own personal interpretation based exclusively on your subjective feelings.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 16:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) I came up with that miscalculation by using xe.com. Right now, 500,000,000.00 UAH = 65,316,788.69 USD. That's a $35 million difference. Maybe it's not 40%, but that's certainly a heavy overcalculation. And the people who think we shouldn't use that source are me and Jaan Parn. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 17:47, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
See [1] . -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 11:22, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
I can't believe this conversation is still going on. This entire thing is about adding "more than 500 million hryvnia." Seriously? That's really worth days and days of fighting? — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 15:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
So Olahus made this change from Moldavian to Romanian. According to Moldovan language, "the language spoken in Moldova is identical to Romanian... but for political reasons both names Moldovan and Romanian are used inside the country." We can argue about how to describe the language, but changing "Moldavian heritage" to "Romanian heritage" is a pretty heavy change, it seems. I guess the question is what the sources say. Olahus didn't provide any references when he or she made that change, but there's a quote from her in the article that says "that the Moldavian family name". That seems as good as anything to me to show that she is of Moldavian heritage. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 13:16, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
@ HelloAnnyong: When speaking about the "Moldavian" family name, Sofia Rotaru only cited what the Soviet authorities said about her family name. Not what she believes about it. Moreover, she changed her name back from "Rotari" to "Rotaru". -- Olahus ( talk) 11:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Rubikonchik, you have right. And HelloAnnyong, thank you for the clarification. -- Olahus ( talk) 12:56, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
There is no such thing as a Moldovan language. They speak Romanian in Moldova and I don't see why the political Soviet propaganda to make up another identity for the people of Moldova and to distance them from their Romanian origins, should be used on Wikipedia. Porcina ( talk) 08:22, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Moldovan language is the official name of the language spoken in Moldova. Sources, including her album sleeves, overwhelmingly state the language as Moldovan. This is not the place to WP:RGW. Jaan Pärn ( talk) 11:13, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Following Rubikonchik's edit here, I think I should state this plainly, in case it wasn't already obvious: what I said in this edit - "Stating what the government guy said, and only that, is sufficient for me." - does not mean "In 2008, she declared revenue significantly higher than 500 million hryvnia (about $100 million)." — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
1) http://rian.com.ua/economy/20080718/77966106.html "...People's Artist of Ukraine Sofia Rotaru declared the highest revenue for the year 2008, said deputy chairman of the State Tax Administration of Ukraine Sergiy healer at a press briefing on Friday.
In doing so, he did not specify the amount of declared, but added that "the most revenue significantly exceeds 500 million (hryvnia) (about 100 million dollars)...."
2) http://kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=915810
"...The singer Sofia Rotaru declared the highest incomes in the Ukraine in 2007, said deputy chairman of the State Tax Administration of Ukraine Sergiy healer. He did not specify the amount of declared, but noted that revenue People's Artist of Ukraine "is much higher than 500 million hryvnia (about $ 100 million)...."-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 22:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
User: Erikupoeg, the matter is simple, all you have to do is to prove the contrary of what the sources say. So far you did not and your mere personal assertions, deliberately bad faithed, cannot certainly account for anything.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 22:26, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I protected the article page today for 3 months due to the edit war that is going on. This is a very long period of time; I chose it because this has been a longstanding battle on the talk page and article, and I don't want any of you to simply wait for the protection to end.
Okay, my advice boils down to C and C.
The first C is civility. The reverts, edit summaries, and talk page have been less than civil. Remain civil. Step away from the keyboard if necessary.
Secondly, consensus. Please reach a consensus on what text should be included and what isn't important. This should be done BEFORE any editing happens. Even if someone was to post to the article page, this is when you could (and should) use dispute resolution, NOT engage in an edit war.
Hopefully this only takes a few days and begins after this post in a civil, adult, manner.
I won't be watching this page- too much drama for me. If obvious incivility or personal attacks take place, let me know. If you reach consensus, also let me know and I'll happily unprotect the page. If I happen to be off Wiki when you are done, just go to WP:RFPP and point them at this message. However, they'll want to see that you asked me first, since I'm the one who has stepped in.
Okay? Good. Now, apologize, stay cool, stay civil, and drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. tedder ( talk) 23:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I archive the peer review - the article is fully protected and cannot be edited by most editors, plus it is full of major cleanup tags (references needed). These make it inelegible for PR. When is unprotected and has more refs, please feel free to nominate it for PR again, thanks and sorry, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 13:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Please, change transcription to [sɔˈfʲijɑ mɪˈxajlʲivnɑ rɔˈtɑru]
BTW, I also suggest adding a Russian variant of her name, "София Михайловна Ротару" [sɐˈfʲɪjə mʲiˈxajləvnə rɐˈtaru] somewhere in the article, because she is also well-known in Russia as well.
Dmitry 93.84.164.245 ( talk) 19:40, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
As nobody seems to give a hoot of what is going on with the article, I hereby permit Rubikonchik to decisively turn the article into the definitive fan site of Sofia Rotaru for English readers. This includes clearance to remove all the maintainance tags, add more weasel words (why are we still missing: "Sofia Rotaru has been considered the greatest pop singer ever"?), and more unencyclopaedic content (the article could use some more info on her impersonators and friends). The fan site would also need more synthesis of hearsay information by Russian news reporters (we need more stuff like "Rotaru is the first ever rapper in history" and "she is the biggest earning artist in the universe"). The permission is valid until somebody disagrees with what is going on here. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 22:02, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
As two editors have recently expressed their opinion that the issues I am trying to raise have not been discussed enough, I will post a Best of of them once again. Most of this has been up since 20 April 2009 (see Talk:Sofia Rotaru#Change of content).
- this is a mere lie. How do you count the percentage? Really, such false statements sound again like a good old bad faith editing.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 14:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- I calculate the percentage by counting the unsourced sentences and dividing them with the count of the total number of sentences. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 08:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
- you are welcome to suggest a new wording for an appropriate discussion here. Moreover, please quote the alleged list here. At least we will be able to read and clearly see it here if we (I) are (am) unable to see the aforesaid list in the article itself. And again, this was already discussed.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 14:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- this has been already discussed, user on a Russia Wiki Project has confirmed that either you do not understand Russian/ English or it is a mere bad faith. I fully share this point of view.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 14:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- this has been already discussed, many other references with same citations were provided from press of different countries and different journalists.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 14:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I suggest leave it without specifying who and when named her this way, otherwise the introduction will be too long. Besides, the given references clearly provide this information. Rubikonchik ( talk) 11:32, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Local name of Sofia's village is Marşinţi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.112.19.52 ( talk) 07:13, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
Marşinţi is in Noua Suliţă district (local name) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.112.19.52 ( talk) 07:18, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
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The article looks in quite bad shape at the moment, due to following errors:
1)The lead section identifies the nationality and the occupation of Rotaru based on the imagination of her fans editing the article. Proposal: to use the nationality and occupation what she herself uses to identify herself on her official biography.
2)The article includes dubious claims that are unsourced. Proposal: to either source the claims or remove them.
3)The biography section is poorly written and too long to digest. Most of the info is insignificant and the significant info could be concentrated to half the size of the current biography section.
4)The 'Fans of Sofia Rotaru' section is unencyclopedic and insignificant. I mean, If I wanted to read a whole section about her stalker or her impersonator, I'd go to Russian gossip sites. The people who created her websites are highly irrelevant in an encyclopedia and will be removed.
Dear fans of Sofia Rotaru. Please make these corrections yourself. If you don't, somebody else will in close days to come. --
Jaan Pärn (
talk)
07:59, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
P.S. Please take a look at the comments I've made by making the changes. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 15:38, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
You haven't provided any source for your suggestions. Please discuss before changing and try to support your edits with a valid verifiable argument, for each of your points, or at least propose a new wording here before blindly changing the whole article as you simply feel. Thank you.--
Rubikonchik (
talk)
16:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Here is just a random selection of sites where Sofia Rotaru is presented as a singer of at least four countries: USSR, Russia, Ukraine and Moldova.
http://who-is-who.com.ua/bookmaket/olimp2006/12/153.html http://www.123exp-biographies.com/t/00034285611/ http://www.spock.com/Sofia-Rotaru http://www.discogs.com/artist/%D0%A1%D0%BE%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%8F+%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%83?anv=Sofia+Rotaru http://slovari.yandex.ru/dict/who-is-who/article/cult/cul1-159.htm&stpar1=1.12.1 http://www.peoples.ru/art/music/stage/rotaru/index.html http://www.biograph.ru/bank/rotaru_sm.htm
-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 22:41, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
1) Krugozor was not a label but a magazine where Melodiya published flexi-discs.
2) removed the WP:PEACOCK
3) Russian edition of Postimees is not 'the press' and the article does not say 'This Is All We Have'.
4) replaced the mess of an opening statement with the opening statement from her official biography.
Please comment before reverting! --
Jaan Pärn (
talk)
09:05, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
The discussion has turned into a monologue once again, so I'll present it in a nutshell. Most of the material here is a violation WP:VERIFIABILITY, which says:"Any material lacking a reliable source may be removed," and: "It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced." My request for sources has been up on this talk page since April 28 (see Talk:Sofia Rotaru#Change of content, so I suggest anybody who is interested in keeping some specific info in the article, to start inserting citations right this moment!
Another major issue was the content of the "Fans of Sofia Rotaru". It's obviously sourced, but its topic is not the singer herself nor even her reception, but the leading fans and the webpages they've created. This was a violation of WP:Notability, specifically WP:Notability (web) and has been ruthlessly removed. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 14:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Please, stop contributing with cotroversial unproven information. Please contribute with proven data which finds consensus. Thank you.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 17:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Jaan Pärn, please, stop contributing with cotroversial unproven information. So far your edits seem quite disruptive to me. Please contribute with proven data which finds consensus. Thank you.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 17:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
1) A nation doesn't own a person, vice versa. Per WP:Citizenship and nationality:"Nationality denotes informal membership in or identification with a particular nation."
- Exactly, even today Russian include Sofia Rotaru in all ratings as the person of the year and etc... even though she does not have Russian citizenship. Also, do you know any other singer not having Russian citizenship and having so many official Russian state awards (this goes without mentioning top positions in the radio charts)? -- Rubikonchik ( talk) 18:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
- Moreover, if you check live interviews with her (on youtube "Women's stories"), you will clearly hear that she says I'm Moldavian, Ukrainian and Russian. -- Rubikonchik ( talk) 22:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
2) Krugozor was not a label but a magazine where Melodiya published flexi-discs.
- Krugozor was a magazine, but also an affiliate label of Melodiya. Flexi-discs released under this label were not labelled Melodiya.
3)Russian edition of Postimees is not 'the press' and the article does not say 'This Is All We Have
- To make a long story short, you may perform a search in Russian on yandex.ru, for example, with following key words "queen (koroleva), prima, rotaru, sex symbol" -- Rubikonchik ( talk) 18:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
4) replaced the mess of an opening statement with the opening statement from her official biography.
- Do you know that she never wrote anythiong officially on her site? Those who contributed with the text are fans from www.fortuna-rotaru.narod.ru and partially from www.rotarunews.narod.ru (Galina Starodubova, the one who threatened subsequently Sofia Rotaru with violent death, was member of the second)
5)And one more from Lvivske: that doesnt make sense.
- What is this about?-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 18:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
CONCLUSION: Jaan Pärn, please check out what's behind the comments and give your arguments before reverting.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 18:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
2)The article includes dubious claims that are unsourced. Proposal: to either source the claims or remove them.
3)The biography section is poorly written and too long to digest. Most of the info is insignificant and the significant info could be concentrated to half the size of the current biography section.
4)The 'Fans of Sofia Rotaru' section is a violation of
WP:Notability (web) and
WP:NOTLINK. --
Jaan Pärn (
talk)
19:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
RESUME OF CONCLUSIONS: Looks like you do not want to contrubute constructively, but rather destructively. Wikipedia is not a battle ground, but a place for common healthy sense of constructive contribution.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 22:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
References
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cite web}}
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help)
She is considered national singer in four countries. It is strange that Estonian Jaan Pärn tries to delete portins of the article, whereas even Estonian newspaper calls her the Pop Queen! Here is a random googling:
Also, check this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo7Xvv4VgSA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzVvATkPuRQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivnHJQn5ShE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3QuahinuOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNxuy2y7Po8 (about Galina Starodubova, the crazy fan who threatened to kill Sofia Rotaru, there are also at least nudreed articles on the internet).-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 23:03, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
The Sofia Rotaru#Fan scene section is unencyclopedic and misses significance. I mean, If I wanted to read a whole section about her stalker or her impersonator, I'd go to Russian gossip sites. A list of her fan clubs, websites and the people who established them are irrelevant in an encyclopedia and will be removed in a couple of days. Meanwhile, everybody has time to prove the opposite and bring sources, which discuss the fan scene.-- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 13:37, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
and there are more, this is just about Sofia Rotaru and Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov (aka Japanese / Yaponchik)-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 23:05, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
here you will find hudnreds of articles about Galina Starodubova trheatening and blackmailing Sofia Rotaru...--
Rubikonchik (
talk)
23:05, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Please, don't be ridiculous. It's simply funny how you turn clear evidence into "gossip" by your mere subjective interpretation, with tens and probably hundreds of articles on the topic in front of you... Please, stop your continuous disruption.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 00:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Most of Sofia Rotaru#Fan scene still is a list of fan clubs and their establishers. Do you have sources (even in Russian) covering this topic in general (not one by one)? -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 10:18, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm in agreement with Jaan Pärn on this. As it stands right now, the Fan Scene section of this article suffers from extensive original research and lack of notability. Just because a bunch of fan sites exist does not mean that they get to be included - or that you can use them as references. For example, it's inappropriate to say "There are fan clubs in (x), (y), (z)" and then have refs to fan clubs in those areas. The rest of the section has no reliable sources on it, and it needs a huge cleanup. I'd support a huge, huge paring down of this section to only what's verifiable by secondary sources. For an example of a section that's at least marginally better, look at Twilight (series)#The Twilight Phenomenon. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:03, 24 May 2009 (UTC) Oh, and as a side note, I see at least two links to http://www.bez15mechta.org/, which is a spam site. So I'm going to remove those. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:04, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
The source for the claim appears to be the oral statement made by Deputy Chairman of the State Tax Administration Serhii Lekar. The summary statement, as communicated by the Ukrainian News Agency can be found here: http://www.ukranews.com/eng/article/137362.html . According to it, Rotaru did declare the highest income of the Ukrainian celebrities, but does not give anything on the sum. Even if he did, an encyclopedia like Wiki cannot base such a contentious claim (Rotaru earning more than any other entertainer in the world besides The Police) on an oral statement (mis?)interpreted by newspapers before it is included in a comprehensive report like the one by Forbes. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 10:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
I've removed a whole lot of text from this section. It's sort of a violation of WP:EL to have links to all the fanclubs in reference tags. Also, I've added fact tags after every sentence. I have no idea why Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov or Dionis Kelm are notable enough to be listed here, so we need some clarification there. I don't even understand Dionis Kelm's role in this - is he/she a tribute act? Other text can be added to this section, but it must be referenced. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 05:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
The prose of the current Early life an career section is difficult to follow. This is due to an extremely loose time frame of the section which generally should be in a strict time order. I have tried to improve that by moving general remarks about her artistry, legacy, nationality, and personal life to appropriate sections, but the Early life and career section still needs a great deal of work.
Another concern is the total lack of inline citations, which make the text unverifiable. Also please note that per WP:ALBUM and WP:SONGS, original album and song titles should be presented, not their translations. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 13:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Rubikonchik ( talk · contribs), please don't just blindly undo everything that Jaan Parn did. Their edits were really helpful to making this article better, and I fully support them. It's tendentious to ignore all of his work. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 22:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
AnnYong's suggestion was not to copy the title of Twilight (series)#The Twilight Phenomenon but to take a look at it as an example of a better written fan section. In Twilight (series)#The Twilight Phenomenon, the term 'phenomenon' is sourced whereas in Sofia Rotaru#Sofia Rotaru Phenomenon it is not, therefore the header is WP:OR at its least and furthermore a WP:PEACOCK term. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 15:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
to tell you the truth, there is also a beer called Chervona Ruta with the face of Sofia Rotaru on the etiquette (as well as women's bags, etc...) I understand that the title has to be litterally be sourced. Ok, I'll check for sources. In the meanwhile, I propose either to leave the section with the name "Fan Scene" (with the actual contents) or think of a more appropriate title to cover the last edit.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 15:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
By the way, I have provided links to three different articles (Bulagrian, Ukrainian and Russian) referring to inetrnational press regarding the latest mobster affair with Sofia Rotaru's name.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 08:31, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
By the way, speaking of phenomenon, just by random googling I found already many different sources mentioning Sofia Rotaru and what is going on around her as the phenomenon 1) "Небо - это ты...", Олег ВЕРГЕЛИС, - Почему возник психоз вокруг Софии Ротару - «Киевские ведомости», 5 марта 2004г; 2) http://www.segodnya.ua/interview/12050373.html 3) http://www.kp.ru/daily/23409/34318/ 4) http://www.prazdnikinfo.ru/5/18/i21_3492.htm 5) http://www.newsmusic.ru/news_3_14920.htm -- Rubikonchik ( talk) 21:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I cannot get my hands on the first source, the second one is an interview with Rotaru. How could an interview with a singer establish she is called a phenomenon? The third one is a tabloid. The title of the fourth site speaks for itself - translating into PartyInfo.ru. The fifth one is an interview with Kirkorov where I cannot spot any synonyms for the term 'phenomenon'. So what you have presented, is evidence for nothing. Try again. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 22:20, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
1) link for the first article: http://www.sofiarotaru.com/news/events/event:NeboEtoTy
2) Here is for the second article: "The family of Sofia Rotaru is considered a phenomenon of the show-business..."
See, it's the journalist who is saying this, just like in the article about The Twilight...
И САМИ ЛЮБОВЬ СОХРАНИЛИ, И СВОИХ ДЕТЕЙ НАУЧИЛИ. Семью Ротару считают феноменом отечественного шоу-бизнеса: обычно среди представителей этой профессии не встретишь человека, сохранившего свой брак на долгие десятилетия. А вот София Михайловна со своим мужем Анатолием Евдокименко прожила прожила более трех десятков лет, пока Анатолий Кириллович не ушел из жизни. Но свою большую любовь родители словно передали детям. Сын Ротару Руслан и невестка Светлана поженились в аккурат в день серебряной свадьбы Софии Михайловны и Анатолия Кирилловича. Их брак уже также можно назвать проверенным временем — 15-ю годами, и судя по всему, расставаться супруги не собираются.
«Я бы посоветовала всем молодоженам: в первую очередь научиться терпению, состраданию, взаимопониманию – и стараться подольше сохранить любовь», — как-то заметила Ротару.
Алена Медведева
3) third article: Yevgeny Yevtushenko wrote athe following poem to Sofia Rotaru "... The people are starving: they are hungry for music. And women are moaning "how thin she is!..."
By the way, this is not tabloid (see explanation above).
«Голод на музыку»
- София Михайловна, когда-то Евгений Евтушенко посвятил вам проникновенное стихотворение, где были строки: «Народ голодает: на музыку голод. И охают бабы: «Какая худая!..»
4) fourth article: "Why does Sofia Rotaru gather full concert halls, stadiums in Russia? - This is indeed the phenomenon of Rotaru herself. She is living her renaissance right now: she released a quality product, filmed expensive clips, created the image of a beautiful mature woman. This was not done either by Alla Pugacheva, nor Larisa Dolina, who are in the stage of artistic decline at this moment...."
А почему София Ротару собирает полные залы, стадионы в России?
- Это как раз феномен самой Ротару. У нее сейчас ренессанс: выдала качественный продукт, сняла дорогие клипы, создала красивый образ зрелой женщины. Это не сделали ни Алла Пугачева, ни Лариса Долина, у которых сейчас творческий спад.*
5) fifth article: speaks of Sofia Rotaru' unattained level by any other Russian singer. By the way, this article refers to her as Russian again, so this goes for the argument of who she is one more time.
6)
http://www.rma.ru/show/news895.html;30 - Sofia Rotaru became in 2008 the most aired singer in Moscow with "I will call aaplanet with your name / Ya nazovu palnetu imenem tvoim" (next audio file to be uploaded)
7) http://show.oboz.ua/article/8632.htm - Sofia Rotaru took the first place in the rating of the show queens of Ukraine (goes also for the argument about "Pop Queen" as declared by the Estonian newspaper)-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 08:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Here we go again. Rubikonchik, please show sentence by sentence, where exactly did we reach agreement on adding the info in your newest edits on this article? -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 08:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
This is what we have as of today:
Sofia Rotaru (full name Sofia Mihailovna Rotaru-Evdokimenko; Romanian: Sofia Rotaru Ukrainian: Софiя Ротару) is a Ukrainian [1], of Moldovan origin, formerly Soviet singer and pop star. She is known for combining a lyrical deep rich voice, sex appeal, and social or religious themes. In the former USSR her career was marked by her stage success and numerous controversies. She has been named the "Queen of Pop" by the media [2]. Sofia Rotaru is one of the highest paid singers in the world and the highest paid singer in Ukraine. In 2008, she declared revenue significantly higher than 500 million hryvnia (about $100 million). [3]
In 1986, she was the second female pop singer to receive the prestigious title of " People's Artist of USSR" and in 2000 she was named The Singer of the XXth Century. Today Sofia Rotaru is a Citizen of Ukraine and a Meritorious Citizen of Crimea and Yalta. Her repertoire consists of more than 400 songs performed in the Russian, Ukrainian, Moldavian, Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian, Serbian, German, French, English and Italian languages. The city of Yalta is her main residence, although she also lives in Moscow, Kiev, and Baden-Baden. She has received numerous awards, including: Meritorious Artist of the Ukrainian SSR, People's Artist of Ukraine, People's Artist of Moldavian SSR, People's Artist of USSR, Laureate of the Young Communist League Prize, Hero of Moldova, and Cavalier of the Republican Order of Moldova. in August 2002 Former President of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma and President of Russia Vladimir Putin gave awards to Sofia Rotaru (for her 55th birthday), bestowing upon her the high rank of the Hero of Ukraine for her "outstanding personal merits in the sphere of art" [4], and the Russian order "For merits before the Nation", respectively. While Sofia Rotaru commonly goes by her last name, her official last name is Yevdokymenko-Rotaru ( Ukrainian: Євдокименко-Ротару). Yevdokymenko was the surname of her late husband. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rubikonchik ( talk • contribs) 16:21, July 6, 2009
Alright, I've given the lead a shot. In general, leads should have a general overview of the person's career. I added in a line about how her career started (maybe I got it wrong?) and for how long it's been continuing. I also moved most of the Awards stuff down to the Awards section, and I tried to combine a bunch of the old text with the new. Oh, and I added her date of birth, which was missing for some reason. Thoughts? — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 16:56, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
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help)
Jaan, could you maybe explain why you deleted a reference to http://naviny.by/rubrics/bomond/2008/08/07/ic_news_121_295153/ and instead put in a dubious tag? Why is that link not acceptable? I ran it through Google's translate service and it seems to say what the text did. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 13:00, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
(copied from this edit): The issue with the revenues of Sofia Rotaru is a quite simple one and should not be confused with the article List of highest paid musicians in 2008 per se. I undertstand and agree with the decision to delete List of highest paid musicians in 2008 as none of the sources cited Sofia Rotaru as second in the list and that Forbes' list itself was not cited by any other secondary source. The only reason why I was looking to restore its talk page, is that on it I have provided numerous links to the articles of most respectful sources citing clear unambiguous information about the revenues of Sofia Rotaru in 2008. All of this is just to spare the time (my time). If User:Erikupoeg keeps inserting the tag "dubious-discuss", by deleting my sources which clearly state the amount declared, I'll have to add ten or twenty references if necessary.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 14:43, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
The source that you cite: http://www.dengi.ua/news/39082.html does not quote the official on stating 100mln as Rotaru's revenues but merely synthesises his two statements made in entirely different contexts. Your other sources are just as synthetic, provided they even bother to cite their sources. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 16:17, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
There are plenty of other sources, remember, Kommersant, Argumenty i Fakty, Komsomolskaya Pravda, Belorusskie novosti, etc, etc, etc... What methods are they using? Again, I repeat, please avoid giving your own personal interpretation based exclusively on your subjective feelings.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 16:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) I came up with that miscalculation by using xe.com. Right now, 500,000,000.00 UAH = 65,316,788.69 USD. That's a $35 million difference. Maybe it's not 40%, but that's certainly a heavy overcalculation. And the people who think we shouldn't use that source are me and Jaan Parn. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 17:47, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
See [1] . -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 11:22, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
I can't believe this conversation is still going on. This entire thing is about adding "more than 500 million hryvnia." Seriously? That's really worth days and days of fighting? — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 15:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
So Olahus made this change from Moldavian to Romanian. According to Moldovan language, "the language spoken in Moldova is identical to Romanian... but for political reasons both names Moldovan and Romanian are used inside the country." We can argue about how to describe the language, but changing "Moldavian heritage" to "Romanian heritage" is a pretty heavy change, it seems. I guess the question is what the sources say. Olahus didn't provide any references when he or she made that change, but there's a quote from her in the article that says "that the Moldavian family name". That seems as good as anything to me to show that she is of Moldavian heritage. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 13:16, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
@ HelloAnnyong: When speaking about the "Moldavian" family name, Sofia Rotaru only cited what the Soviet authorities said about her family name. Not what she believes about it. Moreover, she changed her name back from "Rotari" to "Rotaru". -- Olahus ( talk) 11:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Rubikonchik, you have right. And HelloAnnyong, thank you for the clarification. -- Olahus ( talk) 12:56, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
There is no such thing as a Moldovan language. They speak Romanian in Moldova and I don't see why the political Soviet propaganda to make up another identity for the people of Moldova and to distance them from their Romanian origins, should be used on Wikipedia. Porcina ( talk) 08:22, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Moldovan language is the official name of the language spoken in Moldova. Sources, including her album sleeves, overwhelmingly state the language as Moldovan. This is not the place to WP:RGW. Jaan Pärn ( talk) 11:13, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Following Rubikonchik's edit here, I think I should state this plainly, in case it wasn't already obvious: what I said in this edit - "Stating what the government guy said, and only that, is sufficient for me." - does not mean "In 2008, she declared revenue significantly higher than 500 million hryvnia (about $100 million)." — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
1) http://rian.com.ua/economy/20080718/77966106.html "...People's Artist of Ukraine Sofia Rotaru declared the highest revenue for the year 2008, said deputy chairman of the State Tax Administration of Ukraine Sergiy healer at a press briefing on Friday.
In doing so, he did not specify the amount of declared, but added that "the most revenue significantly exceeds 500 million (hryvnia) (about 100 million dollars)...."
2) http://kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=915810
"...The singer Sofia Rotaru declared the highest incomes in the Ukraine in 2007, said deputy chairman of the State Tax Administration of Ukraine Sergiy healer. He did not specify the amount of declared, but noted that revenue People's Artist of Ukraine "is much higher than 500 million hryvnia (about $ 100 million)...."-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 22:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
User: Erikupoeg, the matter is simple, all you have to do is to prove the contrary of what the sources say. So far you did not and your mere personal assertions, deliberately bad faithed, cannot certainly account for anything.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 22:26, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I protected the article page today for 3 months due to the edit war that is going on. This is a very long period of time; I chose it because this has been a longstanding battle on the talk page and article, and I don't want any of you to simply wait for the protection to end.
Okay, my advice boils down to C and C.
The first C is civility. The reverts, edit summaries, and talk page have been less than civil. Remain civil. Step away from the keyboard if necessary.
Secondly, consensus. Please reach a consensus on what text should be included and what isn't important. This should be done BEFORE any editing happens. Even if someone was to post to the article page, this is when you could (and should) use dispute resolution, NOT engage in an edit war.
Hopefully this only takes a few days and begins after this post in a civil, adult, manner.
I won't be watching this page- too much drama for me. If obvious incivility or personal attacks take place, let me know. If you reach consensus, also let me know and I'll happily unprotect the page. If I happen to be off Wiki when you are done, just go to WP:RFPP and point them at this message. However, they'll want to see that you asked me first, since I'm the one who has stepped in.
Okay? Good. Now, apologize, stay cool, stay civil, and drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. tedder ( talk) 23:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I archive the peer review - the article is fully protected and cannot be edited by most editors, plus it is full of major cleanup tags (references needed). These make it inelegible for PR. When is unprotected and has more refs, please feel free to nominate it for PR again, thanks and sorry, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 13:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Please, change transcription to [sɔˈfʲijɑ mɪˈxajlʲivnɑ rɔˈtɑru]
BTW, I also suggest adding a Russian variant of her name, "София Михайловна Ротару" [sɐˈfʲɪjə mʲiˈxajləvnə rɐˈtaru] somewhere in the article, because she is also well-known in Russia as well.
Dmitry 93.84.164.245 ( talk) 19:40, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
As nobody seems to give a hoot of what is going on with the article, I hereby permit Rubikonchik to decisively turn the article into the definitive fan site of Sofia Rotaru for English readers. This includes clearance to remove all the maintainance tags, add more weasel words (why are we still missing: "Sofia Rotaru has been considered the greatest pop singer ever"?), and more unencyclopaedic content (the article could use some more info on her impersonators and friends). The fan site would also need more synthesis of hearsay information by Russian news reporters (we need more stuff like "Rotaru is the first ever rapper in history" and "she is the biggest earning artist in the universe"). The permission is valid until somebody disagrees with what is going on here. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 22:02, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
As two editors have recently expressed their opinion that the issues I am trying to raise have not been discussed enough, I will post a Best of of them once again. Most of this has been up since 20 April 2009 (see Talk:Sofia Rotaru#Change of content).
- this is a mere lie. How do you count the percentage? Really, such false statements sound again like a good old bad faith editing.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 14:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- I calculate the percentage by counting the unsourced sentences and dividing them with the count of the total number of sentences. -- Jaan Pärn ( talk) 08:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
- you are welcome to suggest a new wording for an appropriate discussion here. Moreover, please quote the alleged list here. At least we will be able to read and clearly see it here if we (I) are (am) unable to see the aforesaid list in the article itself. And again, this was already discussed.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 14:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- this has been already discussed, user on a Russia Wiki Project has confirmed that either you do not understand Russian/ English or it is a mere bad faith. I fully share this point of view.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 14:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
- this has been already discussed, many other references with same citations were provided from press of different countries and different journalists.-- Rubikonchik ( talk) 14:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I suggest leave it without specifying who and when named her this way, otherwise the introduction will be too long. Besides, the given references clearly provide this information. Rubikonchik ( talk) 11:32, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Local name of Sofia's village is Marşinţi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.112.19.52 ( talk) 07:13, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
Marşinţi is in Noua Suliţă district (local name) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.112.19.52 ( talk) 07:18, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
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