![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
. There shold also be more pictures of snowleopards in here so that people can get an idea on how they look. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.69.112.254 ( talk • contribs) .
I've palced it here as I didn't want to create the extra page. Anyway, I've rated the article start class because it is too short to be anything else, but too long to be a stub. It has a fair amount of pictures & is fairly well written & accurate. It also has enough references to become even a B class if it had more writing. So, things to do: Basically expand the article & give it a rewrite once you've done that. Spawn Man 03:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Under 5.1 Distribution the list of countries does not list Mongolia which is one of the main countries where the snow leopard lives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.113.183.49 ( talk) 16:52, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Under the Description heading is written: Weighing up to 47 kilograms (310lbs), the snow leopard can be...
This is inaccurate, as 47 kilograms can not in any way be manipulated to equal 310 pounds. Using my own common sense, the 310 pounds figure seems more likely, but I would just like to further clarify which weight is the correct one.
Possible that the author meant 147 kilograms (324 pounds)?
Snow leopard fur doesn't turn white in winter (!). This is not mountain hare! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.206.142.8 ( talk) 13:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I've revised and copy edited the article. I noticed that "snow leopard" was capitalized throughout the article. I've changed that to the convention used in Tiger, Lion, Leopard, and Cheetah: i.e. the first instance is capitalized, but not thereafter. I added a new section on "Habitat, Population, and Home Range" and created a table on habitat areas and estimated populations. I removed some of the excessive footnoting in the lead. One footnote for a topic is usually enough, since readers quickly read through the lead in order to get to the main article (or not). I would request that if you want to add more scientific articles about the Panthera/Uncia debate, please add them to the "See also" section. Also, I've moved the BBC Planet Earth documentary sentence to "External Links". I also took out the reference to September 11—it seemed dubious and unsourced. Finally, I've added a "citation needed" tag to the story about the numbers dropping to 1,000 in the 1960s. This too is very unlikely, given that many habitat areas are almost impossible to reach. If the sentence is not sourced soon, it will be removed. I added a list of protected areas (mostly national parks in Pakistan, India, and Nepal) for the snow leopard. I've also added a number of images and a story about the GPS tagging in Chitral National Park, Pakistan. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:29, 27 November 2006 (UTC) Reverted vandalism. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:35, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I would like to request that the next time someone decides to nominate the article for Featured Article consideration, they discuss it first on the talk page. Having worked quite a bit on the article myself, I was surprised to find that it was a feature article contender (when it is nowhere near that level of completion). I know it was done in good faith, but it would be a good idea to discuss the issue here first. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 20:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
There is a significant apparent contradiction in the article, which must represent a factual error or, at best, an ambiguity. Either way, it needs to be fixed/clarified. The article states that "Despite its name, the snow leopard is not closely related to the leopard, and is thought to be more closely related to the cheetah." However, the article also states that "most recent molecular studies place the species firmly within the genus Panthera", and the leopard is a member of that genus, whereas the cheetah is not. The Felidae article also states that the snow leopard is classified under the same subfamily as leopards (Pantherinae), which is supported by this article's categorization, whereas cheetahs are in a completely different subfamily (Felinae); that's a pretty huge gap between snow leopards and cheetahs, and a pretty small one between snow leopards and leopards. How did this disconnect arise? Are scientists divided on this issue, or is one of the reports out-of-date, or what?
Additionally, if "most recent molecular studies place the species firmly within the genus Panthera", I question why the Uncia genus is still being supported here, since the implication is that it's simply an out-of-date classification that the molecular evidence has overturned. If this is not the case, then the sentence seems to be misleading: it should be revised to say that some recent molecular studies have implied this, or that molecular studies have placed the species within the subfamily Pantherinae, but not necessarily within the genus Panthera (as implied by Felidae). I don't know what the intended statement is, so I don't know how to correct any of these errors; and readers will be similarly confused. - Silence 21:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I dont believe the article covers how rare this animal is. Nor does it tell on how elusive it is. Planet Earth has the only film (as far as i know) of a Snow Leopard's hunt.
I noticed that a number of changes were made recently to the article. In particular, the name "snow leopard" has been capitalized throughout without any discussion on the talk page. None of the tertiary sources, like Britannica or Encarta capitalize "snow leopard;" none of the papers in the reference section capitalize (including a number in Science and other well-respected journals), and the IUCN doesn't capitalize. WikiProjectMammals doesn't take a position on capitalization; however, it does say: "In the absence of consensus: Respect the original or primary authors; do not up and change something without notification, as you may be reverted." I do understand the Wikipedia exhorts people to be bold, but a change like this should have been discussed on the talk page first. I am therefore rolling back the page to the version of 21st May before the changes were made. Please discuss here why you want to capitalize or make any other changes to the current version. For example, I don't see why the section on conservation was so drastically whittled down without any explanation and why some valuable references—the only references easily available on the web about conservation work in the snow leopard's habitat regions—were removed. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 03:51, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
“ | The issue of the capitalization of the common names of mammal species is unresolved on Wikipedia and our pages are inconsistent. A large majority of reliable sources do not capitalize and thus there is a strong descriptive argument against doing so. Capitalization will often not "feel" right for editors for this reason. Conversely, because species names are
proper nouns there is also a strong argument in favour of capitalization. Upper case usage is well-established with
Aves species, for example. There are actually three possibilities in capitalizing:
The third is most correct orthographically, but it is also the most difficult to maintain. In the absence of consensus:
|
” |
Sorry, you will have to have that discussion here pending a firm Wikipedia convention for capitalization of mammal names. I just read the cougar discussion, which is superficial at best. The main point is that Wikipedia goes by reliable secondary sources. During the course of the day, I will produce many such sources, none of which capitalize the name "snow leopard." You simply can't extrapolate a WP convention for Birds (which itself is not without problems) to mammals.
Fowler&fowler
«Talk»
16:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is only in the Ornithology literature that they capitalize the names of birds. They don't do it in "Wildlife Studies," "Biology," "Conservation Biology," "Ecology" etc. (all the subfields of the Biological Sciences) that have articles on birds. I am collecting below a number of secondary sources on the "snow leopard." In the 50 or so that I have examined in the last 15 minutes, not a single one capitalizes the snow leopard.
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 20:35, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Expand to see the secondary sources on "snow leopard": |
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|
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 23:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
So, given all of these sources and a substantial argument, the snow leopard still remains the Snow Leopard. Why, exactly, is this?
142.167.96.12
04:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I think there should be something on Twycross zoo's project that will feature a new enclosure for snow leopards, I mean seeing them is a zoo is very rare, the enclosure it wll have 1 way glass where people can see them but they cant see outside, and the whole enclosure will be very accurate in modeling the animals natural habitait.
Construction is due to start in summer 2008 and is expected to take 18 months. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.159.87.179 ( talk) 17:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Some of that information is already on the zoo's page, so thank you.
Under the description it states "In winter, it comes down into the forests at an altitude of about 2000m" one of the reasons for this is that the Leopards try to avoid the snow which is found at higher altitudes, they migrate to lower regions as stated, the article doesn't say why though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.200.93.107 ( talk) 19:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article be moved to Snow leopard? A ecis Brievenbus 21:55, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Quoting the best of the above: "The capitalization on the common names of species has been hotly debated in the past and has remained unresolved. As a matter of truce both capitalized and non-capitalized (except for proper names) are acceptable, but a redirect should be created from the alternative form." - UtherSRG (talk) 03:27, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
ive looked at othr animals and they all talk about reproduction. how many eggs,cubs u know stuff like that? why not here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.236.151 ( talk) 05:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
i kno this animal is classified as endangered how come it doesn't tell why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.236.151 ( talk) 01:06, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Quoting user:UtherSRG above: Quoting the best of the above: "The capitalization on the common names of species has been hotly debated in the past and has remained unresolved. As matter of truce both capitalized and non-capitalized (except for proper names) are acceptable, but a redirect should be created from the alternative form." - UtherSRG (talk) 03:27, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Mediation is the next correct step. No other avenue has led to a conclusion either way. The best we have is that individual projects can determine the right style. The mammal project in itself is undecided, although some subprojects support the style layed out in WP:BIRD. I don't believe there are any mammal subprojects that uphold lowercase. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:11, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
As I have stated above, the convention in zoology (and, in particular, mammalogy) is explicitly against capitalization of common or vernacular names of mammals in text (prose). The convention is not new either. Please read the following review from 1947:
Expand for excerpts from Ernest P. Walker's Mammals of the World, (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2-volume set). Articles on: "lion," "cheetah," "cougar," "clouded leopard," "snow leopard," "indri," "avahi," "sifaka," "woolly opossum," "black-shouldered opossum," and "mountain gorilla." Nomenclature based on MSW. Note, however, that English names are not capitalized in the text: |
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Here are excerpts from Ernest P. Walker's Mammals of the World, (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2-volume set, 2015 pages. 1,550 illustrations. 1999 edition), one of the pre-eminent reference guides on the subject. The title of each article is given first (before the colon). Note that the English name might be capitalized in the title, but never in the text. When discussing the geographic distribution (whether current or historical) the Latin species name is used; the rest of the time the English name in lower-case letters is used. However, the English names are never capitalized. I have put the English common names in boldface for easy recognition, they are not in boldface in the text itself.
|
Expand for excerpts from Encyclopaedia Britannica's "lion," "tiger," "snow leopard," "puma (cougar)," and "jaguar" pages: |
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lion (Panthera leo) large, powerfully built cat (family Felidae) that is second in size only to the tiger. The proverbial “king of beasts,” the lion has been one of the best-known wild animals since earliest times. Lions are most active at night and live in a variety of habitats but prefer grassland, savanna, dense scrub, and open woodland. Historically, they ranged across much of Europe, Asia, and Africa, but now they are found mainly in parts of Africa south of the Sahara. About 200 Asiatic lions constitute a slightly smaller race that lives under strict protection in India's Gir National Park .... tiger (Panthera tigris) largest member of the cat family (Felidae), rivaled only by the lion (P. leo) in strength and ferocity. Ranging from the Russian Far East through parts of North Korea, China, India, and Southeast Asia to the Indonesian island of Sumatra, all five remaining subspecies are endangered. The Siberian, or Amur, tiger (P. tigris altaica) is the largest, measuring up to 4 metres (13 feet) in total length and weighing up to 300 kg (660 pounds). The Indian, or Bengal, tiger (P. tigris tigris) is the most numerous and accounts for about half of the total tiger population.... snow leopard (Leo uncia) also called ounce long-haired cat, family Felidae, grouped with the lion, tiger, and others as one of the big, or roaring, cats. The snow leopard inhabits the mountains of central Asia and the Indian subcontinent, ranging from an elevation of about 1,800 metres (about 6,000 feet) in the winter to about 5,500 metres (18,000 feet) in the summer. Its soft coat, consisting of a dense, insulating undercoat and a thick outercoat of hairs about 5 cm (2 inches) long, is pale grayish with dark rosettes and a dark streak along the spine. The underparts, on which the fur may be 10 cm (4 inches) long, are uniformly whitish. The snow leopard attains a length of about ... puma, also called mountain lion, cougar, panther (eastern U.S.) , or 'catamount' (archaic) large brownish New World cat comparable in size to the jaguar—the only other large cat of the Western Hemisphere. The puma has the widest distribution of any New World mammal, with a range extending from southeastern Alaska to southern Argentina and Chile ... The puma is active mostly at dusk, night, and dawn. Throughout its range its primary prey is hoofed mammals (ungulates, especially deer) larger than itself. In North America each puma kills about 48 ungulates per year ... jaguar, also called el tigre or tigre Americano largest New World member of the cat family (Felidae), once found from the U.S.-Mexican border southward to Patagonia, Argentina. Its preferred habitats are usually swamps and wooded regions, but jaguars also live in scrublands and deserts. The jaguar is virtually extinct in the northern part of its original range and survives in reduced numbers only in remote areas of ... |
" Cat Family group of carnivorous (meat-eating) mammals considered the most highly developed for killing live prey ... The family includes powerful big cats such as the lion, the leopard, and the tiger, as well as the rugged puma and the high-speed cheetah, along with many smaller, secretive hunters such as the caracal, the ocelot, and the wildcat ... Cats are found in nearly all natural environments. For example, lynxes live in the icy cold of the Arctic tundra and snow leopards in the high mountains of Asia, whereas sand cats are found in the heat of African deserts and jaguars in the humid tropical rain forests of the Americas." (boldfacing mine)
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:04, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 21:14, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
In the cat pages below, Capitalized In Text indicates that the common name is capitalized in the text of the article, whereas not capitalized in text indicates that name is not capitalized in the text of the article.
Total: not capitalized in text = 19; Capitalized In Text = 19 (of which 8 are stubs or very short articles); Unclear = 3 (in case of two or three-line stubs) Fowler&fowler «Talk» 03:31, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Source styles are not relevant, since they do not agree. Chicago MoS says when sources do not agree on style, we can choose our own style. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(fauna)#Capitalisation_of_common_names_of_species is pretty clear now: "In general, common (vernacular) names of flora and fauna should be written in sentence case". Birds and possibly some other groups are listed as exceptions, but cats are not in any of those groups. I'll move it back to Snow leopard. ErikHaugen ( talk | contribs) 22:13, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
I have made a small change in putting a citation under Conservation Efforts wehre an editor had requested the citation. However as well as this all of the content below this citation (no. 12) has disappeared. Can some-one please upload the previous version of the article again?sibyllenoras 08:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
From the article: "It cannot roar, despite possessing an incomplete ossification of the hyoid bone, which was previously thought to be essential for allowing the big cats to roar. However, new studies show that the ability to roar is due to other morphological features, especially of the larynx, which are absent in the snow leopard."
So... can it or can't it roar? Is this just a typo in the first sentence? Excise ( talk) 04:09, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Excise said:"...implies, at least to me, that it shouldn't be able to roar due to the requirements not being complete. Sort of like how humans would have trouble speaking if we only had half a throat" The example that you gave does not match. In fact, according to a wikipedia article, the ability to roar is allowed just by the incomplete ossification; the complete ossification is not required for that. In the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera it says:"Only the four Panthera cat species have the anatomical structure that enables them to roar. The primary reason for this was formerly assumed to be the incomplete ossification of the hyoid bone." That is, the snow leopard's inability to roar is not due to the incompleteness of the ossification but is due to the different morphological features of the larynx.
Excise said:"can it or can't it roar? Is this just a typo" It is not a typo, it says only that this incomplete ossification of the hyoid bone is essential. Essential here means necessary and does not mean sufficient; there is no contradiction in the text; that means that it is a necessary non-sufficient condition for the ability to roar in big cats, thus, the ability to roar implies having an incompletely ossified hyoid bone but the reciprocal is false, having an incompletely ossified hyoid bone does not imply being able to roar. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_and_sufficiency -- A.ouerfelli ( talk) 12:17, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
if it says that they're in the genus Panthera, then is it still in Uncia? I beg to know? Rory ( talk) 06:33, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
IUCN places them in Panthera uncia now. Most of the world's authorities on cats post on Cat News( http://www.catsg.org) and they refer to it as Panthera. I have updated the lead and taxonomy section to reflect that but I left the table alone and kept the MSW classification to balance it. MSW has not been updated since 2000 so I think it is time to at least balance it with IUCN and the current consensus of the scientific community.
They are currently working with non-invasive genetic studies using scat. I wonder should we mention this or wait for further studies? Jobberone ( talk) 22:48, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Because of some common characteristics of the Panthera species (tigris, leo, onca and pardus) that do not fit with the uncia species like roaring, it is somewhat unfair to put it in the same genus Panthera. In the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_cat we have in the classification: Genus Panthera (roaring or great cats). I find it better if they settle this problem by including the Uncia genus in a tribe that we might call pantherini that would include the two genera Uncia and Panthera because of the historical similarities of these two genera. Thus, the subfamily Pantherinae will contain Neofelis and Pantherini wich contains the five species uncia, pardus, onca, leo and tigris. A.ouerfelli ( talk) 15:59, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
There is no clade as "pantherini" in the moment but it is just my suggestion. This is a middle solution between letting the uncia species in the genus Uncia and moving it to the genus Panthera. You are right, I didn't explain well. This suggestion is not about changing the content of wikipedia articles but about scientific classification. We will change the classification only when it changes formally.-- A.ouerfelli ( talk) 16:38, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
There is a strange vandalism at the end of the Breeding and Life Cycle section. It says "they eat pie to along with I'm a barbie girl living in a barbie world", but I couldn't see this statement in the editable document. Sorry, maybe someone else who understands these edits better than I do can remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.118.175.48 ( talk) 19:46, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Snow leopard is NOT a proper noun. On the contrary, Snow Leopard is. When I type "Snow Leopard" into the URL bar, I expect to be taken to Mac OS Snow Leopard. When I type in "Snow leopard", I expect to be taken to an article about the cat. This is very simple to me and I do not understand your confusion. There are not other types of leopards that live in the snow other than the snow leopard. Thus, the way some bird articles have been written clearly does not apply to this article. Please continue consistency throughout Wikipedia, and not just because UtherSRG prefers "Snow Leopard". I am moving the article to Snow leopard and turning Snow Leopard into a redirect page. I will do this once. Mac Davis ( talk) 13:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Panthera uncia is not a synonym. It is an alternate or prior placement of uncia in Panthera. irbis is a synonym, originally described under genus Felis. - UtherSRG (talk) 22:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Any more comments? At present I can see no good reason not to restore Panthera uncia to the synonym box. Richard New Forest ( talk) 22:23, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
From Colin GroveS: There are actually other synonyms of Uncia uncia; a colleague of mine is at present revising the species, and thinks there may be subspecies, and I compiled the following synonymy for him:
- UtherSRG (talk) 03:18, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm done for the time being although I still see room for improvement. I'd like others to look at my revisions before making more. I'm going back to the States next week and I'll have better and more stable access and will be able to find some of the primary sources for references. I'm going to contact Jackson or McCarthy as well as the Cat Spec Grp and get some more info if I can and hopefully get permission to use their updated distribution map. There are some references out there on loss of habitat over the last 15 or so years. There's been a 50% reduction in population size however there's also some surprising data on an increase in size of their range with a shift to a more northern range. I can't access it from China or I've just forgotten where to look for it. I'm having to deal with hans zi script a great deal because I can't access many search engines here. And I can't read pinyin well much less hans zi! Look forward to hearing from you. Jobberone ( talk) 04:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Someone changed the range in the lead to Asia from Central Asia. The ref I added (#4) months ago does not reflect that. AFAIK there is no recent data that reflects any change from that distribution. If anyone has recent data reflecting a change in distribution then I'd like to see it. There has been some movement northwards into other areas of C Asia but AFAIK no extension into SE Asia. Jobberone ( talk) 15:01, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
. There shold also be more pictures of snowleopards in here so that people can get an idea on how they look. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.69.112.254 ( talk • contribs) .
I've palced it here as I didn't want to create the extra page. Anyway, I've rated the article start class because it is too short to be anything else, but too long to be a stub. It has a fair amount of pictures & is fairly well written & accurate. It also has enough references to become even a B class if it had more writing. So, things to do: Basically expand the article & give it a rewrite once you've done that. Spawn Man 03:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Under 5.1 Distribution the list of countries does not list Mongolia which is one of the main countries where the snow leopard lives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.113.183.49 ( talk) 16:52, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Under the Description heading is written: Weighing up to 47 kilograms (310lbs), the snow leopard can be...
This is inaccurate, as 47 kilograms can not in any way be manipulated to equal 310 pounds. Using my own common sense, the 310 pounds figure seems more likely, but I would just like to further clarify which weight is the correct one.
Possible that the author meant 147 kilograms (324 pounds)?
Snow leopard fur doesn't turn white in winter (!). This is not mountain hare! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.206.142.8 ( talk) 13:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I've revised and copy edited the article. I noticed that "snow leopard" was capitalized throughout the article. I've changed that to the convention used in Tiger, Lion, Leopard, and Cheetah: i.e. the first instance is capitalized, but not thereafter. I added a new section on "Habitat, Population, and Home Range" and created a table on habitat areas and estimated populations. I removed some of the excessive footnoting in the lead. One footnote for a topic is usually enough, since readers quickly read through the lead in order to get to the main article (or not). I would request that if you want to add more scientific articles about the Panthera/Uncia debate, please add them to the "See also" section. Also, I've moved the BBC Planet Earth documentary sentence to "External Links". I also took out the reference to September 11—it seemed dubious and unsourced. Finally, I've added a "citation needed" tag to the story about the numbers dropping to 1,000 in the 1960s. This too is very unlikely, given that many habitat areas are almost impossible to reach. If the sentence is not sourced soon, it will be removed. I added a list of protected areas (mostly national parks in Pakistan, India, and Nepal) for the snow leopard. I've also added a number of images and a story about the GPS tagging in Chitral National Park, Pakistan. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:29, 27 November 2006 (UTC) Reverted vandalism. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:35, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I would like to request that the next time someone decides to nominate the article for Featured Article consideration, they discuss it first on the talk page. Having worked quite a bit on the article myself, I was surprised to find that it was a feature article contender (when it is nowhere near that level of completion). I know it was done in good faith, but it would be a good idea to discuss the issue here first. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 20:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
There is a significant apparent contradiction in the article, which must represent a factual error or, at best, an ambiguity. Either way, it needs to be fixed/clarified. The article states that "Despite its name, the snow leopard is not closely related to the leopard, and is thought to be more closely related to the cheetah." However, the article also states that "most recent molecular studies place the species firmly within the genus Panthera", and the leopard is a member of that genus, whereas the cheetah is not. The Felidae article also states that the snow leopard is classified under the same subfamily as leopards (Pantherinae), which is supported by this article's categorization, whereas cheetahs are in a completely different subfamily (Felinae); that's a pretty huge gap between snow leopards and cheetahs, and a pretty small one between snow leopards and leopards. How did this disconnect arise? Are scientists divided on this issue, or is one of the reports out-of-date, or what?
Additionally, if "most recent molecular studies place the species firmly within the genus Panthera", I question why the Uncia genus is still being supported here, since the implication is that it's simply an out-of-date classification that the molecular evidence has overturned. If this is not the case, then the sentence seems to be misleading: it should be revised to say that some recent molecular studies have implied this, or that molecular studies have placed the species within the subfamily Pantherinae, but not necessarily within the genus Panthera (as implied by Felidae). I don't know what the intended statement is, so I don't know how to correct any of these errors; and readers will be similarly confused. - Silence 21:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I dont believe the article covers how rare this animal is. Nor does it tell on how elusive it is. Planet Earth has the only film (as far as i know) of a Snow Leopard's hunt.
I noticed that a number of changes were made recently to the article. In particular, the name "snow leopard" has been capitalized throughout without any discussion on the talk page. None of the tertiary sources, like Britannica or Encarta capitalize "snow leopard;" none of the papers in the reference section capitalize (including a number in Science and other well-respected journals), and the IUCN doesn't capitalize. WikiProjectMammals doesn't take a position on capitalization; however, it does say: "In the absence of consensus: Respect the original or primary authors; do not up and change something without notification, as you may be reverted." I do understand the Wikipedia exhorts people to be bold, but a change like this should have been discussed on the talk page first. I am therefore rolling back the page to the version of 21st May before the changes were made. Please discuss here why you want to capitalize or make any other changes to the current version. For example, I don't see why the section on conservation was so drastically whittled down without any explanation and why some valuable references—the only references easily available on the web about conservation work in the snow leopard's habitat regions—were removed. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 03:51, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
“ | The issue of the capitalization of the common names of mammal species is unresolved on Wikipedia and our pages are inconsistent. A large majority of reliable sources do not capitalize and thus there is a strong descriptive argument against doing so. Capitalization will often not "feel" right for editors for this reason. Conversely, because species names are
proper nouns there is also a strong argument in favour of capitalization. Upper case usage is well-established with
Aves species, for example. There are actually three possibilities in capitalizing:
The third is most correct orthographically, but it is also the most difficult to maintain. In the absence of consensus:
|
” |
Sorry, you will have to have that discussion here pending a firm Wikipedia convention for capitalization of mammal names. I just read the cougar discussion, which is superficial at best. The main point is that Wikipedia goes by reliable secondary sources. During the course of the day, I will produce many such sources, none of which capitalize the name "snow leopard." You simply can't extrapolate a WP convention for Birds (which itself is not without problems) to mammals.
Fowler&fowler
«Talk»
16:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is only in the Ornithology literature that they capitalize the names of birds. They don't do it in "Wildlife Studies," "Biology," "Conservation Biology," "Ecology" etc. (all the subfields of the Biological Sciences) that have articles on birds. I am collecting below a number of secondary sources on the "snow leopard." In the 50 or so that I have examined in the last 15 minutes, not a single one capitalizes the snow leopard.
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 20:35, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Expand to see the secondary sources on "snow leopard": |
---|
|
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 23:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
So, given all of these sources and a substantial argument, the snow leopard still remains the Snow Leopard. Why, exactly, is this?
142.167.96.12
04:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I think there should be something on Twycross zoo's project that will feature a new enclosure for snow leopards, I mean seeing them is a zoo is very rare, the enclosure it wll have 1 way glass where people can see them but they cant see outside, and the whole enclosure will be very accurate in modeling the animals natural habitait.
Construction is due to start in summer 2008 and is expected to take 18 months. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.159.87.179 ( talk) 17:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Some of that information is already on the zoo's page, so thank you.
Under the description it states "In winter, it comes down into the forests at an altitude of about 2000m" one of the reasons for this is that the Leopards try to avoid the snow which is found at higher altitudes, they migrate to lower regions as stated, the article doesn't say why though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.200.93.107 ( talk) 19:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article be moved to Snow leopard? A ecis Brievenbus 21:55, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Quoting the best of the above: "The capitalization on the common names of species has been hotly debated in the past and has remained unresolved. As a matter of truce both capitalized and non-capitalized (except for proper names) are acceptable, but a redirect should be created from the alternative form." - UtherSRG (talk) 03:27, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
ive looked at othr animals and they all talk about reproduction. how many eggs,cubs u know stuff like that? why not here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.236.151 ( talk) 05:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
i kno this animal is classified as endangered how come it doesn't tell why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.236.151 ( talk) 01:06, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Quoting user:UtherSRG above: Quoting the best of the above: "The capitalization on the common names of species has been hotly debated in the past and has remained unresolved. As matter of truce both capitalized and non-capitalized (except for proper names) are acceptable, but a redirect should be created from the alternative form." - UtherSRG (talk) 03:27, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Mediation is the next correct step. No other avenue has led to a conclusion either way. The best we have is that individual projects can determine the right style. The mammal project in itself is undecided, although some subprojects support the style layed out in WP:BIRD. I don't believe there are any mammal subprojects that uphold lowercase. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:11, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
As I have stated above, the convention in zoology (and, in particular, mammalogy) is explicitly against capitalization of common or vernacular names of mammals in text (prose). The convention is not new either. Please read the following review from 1947:
Expand for excerpts from Ernest P. Walker's Mammals of the World, (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2-volume set). Articles on: "lion," "cheetah," "cougar," "clouded leopard," "snow leopard," "indri," "avahi," "sifaka," "woolly opossum," "black-shouldered opossum," and "mountain gorilla." Nomenclature based on MSW. Note, however, that English names are not capitalized in the text: |
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Here are excerpts from Ernest P. Walker's Mammals of the World, (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2-volume set, 2015 pages. 1,550 illustrations. 1999 edition), one of the pre-eminent reference guides on the subject. The title of each article is given first (before the colon). Note that the English name might be capitalized in the title, but never in the text. When discussing the geographic distribution (whether current or historical) the Latin species name is used; the rest of the time the English name in lower-case letters is used. However, the English names are never capitalized. I have put the English common names in boldface for easy recognition, they are not in boldface in the text itself.
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Expand for excerpts from Encyclopaedia Britannica's "lion," "tiger," "snow leopard," "puma (cougar)," and "jaguar" pages: |
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lion (Panthera leo) large, powerfully built cat (family Felidae) that is second in size only to the tiger. The proverbial “king of beasts,” the lion has been one of the best-known wild animals since earliest times. Lions are most active at night and live in a variety of habitats but prefer grassland, savanna, dense scrub, and open woodland. Historically, they ranged across much of Europe, Asia, and Africa, but now they are found mainly in parts of Africa south of the Sahara. About 200 Asiatic lions constitute a slightly smaller race that lives under strict protection in India's Gir National Park .... tiger (Panthera tigris) largest member of the cat family (Felidae), rivaled only by the lion (P. leo) in strength and ferocity. Ranging from the Russian Far East through parts of North Korea, China, India, and Southeast Asia to the Indonesian island of Sumatra, all five remaining subspecies are endangered. The Siberian, or Amur, tiger (P. tigris altaica) is the largest, measuring up to 4 metres (13 feet) in total length and weighing up to 300 kg (660 pounds). The Indian, or Bengal, tiger (P. tigris tigris) is the most numerous and accounts for about half of the total tiger population.... snow leopard (Leo uncia) also called ounce long-haired cat, family Felidae, grouped with the lion, tiger, and others as one of the big, or roaring, cats. The snow leopard inhabits the mountains of central Asia and the Indian subcontinent, ranging from an elevation of about 1,800 metres (about 6,000 feet) in the winter to about 5,500 metres (18,000 feet) in the summer. Its soft coat, consisting of a dense, insulating undercoat and a thick outercoat of hairs about 5 cm (2 inches) long, is pale grayish with dark rosettes and a dark streak along the spine. The underparts, on which the fur may be 10 cm (4 inches) long, are uniformly whitish. The snow leopard attains a length of about ... puma, also called mountain lion, cougar, panther (eastern U.S.) , or 'catamount' (archaic) large brownish New World cat comparable in size to the jaguar—the only other large cat of the Western Hemisphere. The puma has the widest distribution of any New World mammal, with a range extending from southeastern Alaska to southern Argentina and Chile ... The puma is active mostly at dusk, night, and dawn. Throughout its range its primary prey is hoofed mammals (ungulates, especially deer) larger than itself. In North America each puma kills about 48 ungulates per year ... jaguar, also called el tigre or tigre Americano largest New World member of the cat family (Felidae), once found from the U.S.-Mexican border southward to Patagonia, Argentina. Its preferred habitats are usually swamps and wooded regions, but jaguars also live in scrublands and deserts. The jaguar is virtually extinct in the northern part of its original range and survives in reduced numbers only in remote areas of ... |
" Cat Family group of carnivorous (meat-eating) mammals considered the most highly developed for killing live prey ... The family includes powerful big cats such as the lion, the leopard, and the tiger, as well as the rugged puma and the high-speed cheetah, along with many smaller, secretive hunters such as the caracal, the ocelot, and the wildcat ... Cats are found in nearly all natural environments. For example, lynxes live in the icy cold of the Arctic tundra and snow leopards in the high mountains of Asia, whereas sand cats are found in the heat of African deserts and jaguars in the humid tropical rain forests of the Americas." (boldfacing mine)
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:04, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 21:14, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
In the cat pages below, Capitalized In Text indicates that the common name is capitalized in the text of the article, whereas not capitalized in text indicates that name is not capitalized in the text of the article.
Total: not capitalized in text = 19; Capitalized In Text = 19 (of which 8 are stubs or very short articles); Unclear = 3 (in case of two or three-line stubs) Fowler&fowler «Talk» 03:31, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Source styles are not relevant, since they do not agree. Chicago MoS says when sources do not agree on style, we can choose our own style. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(fauna)#Capitalisation_of_common_names_of_species is pretty clear now: "In general, common (vernacular) names of flora and fauna should be written in sentence case". Birds and possibly some other groups are listed as exceptions, but cats are not in any of those groups. I'll move it back to Snow leopard. ErikHaugen ( talk | contribs) 22:13, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
I have made a small change in putting a citation under Conservation Efforts wehre an editor had requested the citation. However as well as this all of the content below this citation (no. 12) has disappeared. Can some-one please upload the previous version of the article again?sibyllenoras 08:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
From the article: "It cannot roar, despite possessing an incomplete ossification of the hyoid bone, which was previously thought to be essential for allowing the big cats to roar. However, new studies show that the ability to roar is due to other morphological features, especially of the larynx, which are absent in the snow leopard."
So... can it or can't it roar? Is this just a typo in the first sentence? Excise ( talk) 04:09, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Excise said:"...implies, at least to me, that it shouldn't be able to roar due to the requirements not being complete. Sort of like how humans would have trouble speaking if we only had half a throat" The example that you gave does not match. In fact, according to a wikipedia article, the ability to roar is allowed just by the incomplete ossification; the complete ossification is not required for that. In the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera it says:"Only the four Panthera cat species have the anatomical structure that enables them to roar. The primary reason for this was formerly assumed to be the incomplete ossification of the hyoid bone." That is, the snow leopard's inability to roar is not due to the incompleteness of the ossification but is due to the different morphological features of the larynx.
Excise said:"can it or can't it roar? Is this just a typo" It is not a typo, it says only that this incomplete ossification of the hyoid bone is essential. Essential here means necessary and does not mean sufficient; there is no contradiction in the text; that means that it is a necessary non-sufficient condition for the ability to roar in big cats, thus, the ability to roar implies having an incompletely ossified hyoid bone but the reciprocal is false, having an incompletely ossified hyoid bone does not imply being able to roar. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_and_sufficiency -- A.ouerfelli ( talk) 12:17, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
if it says that they're in the genus Panthera, then is it still in Uncia? I beg to know? Rory ( talk) 06:33, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
IUCN places them in Panthera uncia now. Most of the world's authorities on cats post on Cat News( http://www.catsg.org) and they refer to it as Panthera. I have updated the lead and taxonomy section to reflect that but I left the table alone and kept the MSW classification to balance it. MSW has not been updated since 2000 so I think it is time to at least balance it with IUCN and the current consensus of the scientific community.
They are currently working with non-invasive genetic studies using scat. I wonder should we mention this or wait for further studies? Jobberone ( talk) 22:48, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Because of some common characteristics of the Panthera species (tigris, leo, onca and pardus) that do not fit with the uncia species like roaring, it is somewhat unfair to put it in the same genus Panthera. In the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_cat we have in the classification: Genus Panthera (roaring or great cats). I find it better if they settle this problem by including the Uncia genus in a tribe that we might call pantherini that would include the two genera Uncia and Panthera because of the historical similarities of these two genera. Thus, the subfamily Pantherinae will contain Neofelis and Pantherini wich contains the five species uncia, pardus, onca, leo and tigris. A.ouerfelli ( talk) 15:59, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
There is no clade as "pantherini" in the moment but it is just my suggestion. This is a middle solution between letting the uncia species in the genus Uncia and moving it to the genus Panthera. You are right, I didn't explain well. This suggestion is not about changing the content of wikipedia articles but about scientific classification. We will change the classification only when it changes formally.-- A.ouerfelli ( talk) 16:38, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
There is a strange vandalism at the end of the Breeding and Life Cycle section. It says "they eat pie to along with I'm a barbie girl living in a barbie world", but I couldn't see this statement in the editable document. Sorry, maybe someone else who understands these edits better than I do can remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.118.175.48 ( talk) 19:46, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Snow leopard is NOT a proper noun. On the contrary, Snow Leopard is. When I type "Snow Leopard" into the URL bar, I expect to be taken to Mac OS Snow Leopard. When I type in "Snow leopard", I expect to be taken to an article about the cat. This is very simple to me and I do not understand your confusion. There are not other types of leopards that live in the snow other than the snow leopard. Thus, the way some bird articles have been written clearly does not apply to this article. Please continue consistency throughout Wikipedia, and not just because UtherSRG prefers "Snow Leopard". I am moving the article to Snow leopard and turning Snow Leopard into a redirect page. I will do this once. Mac Davis ( talk) 13:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Panthera uncia is not a synonym. It is an alternate or prior placement of uncia in Panthera. irbis is a synonym, originally described under genus Felis. - UtherSRG (talk) 22:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Any more comments? At present I can see no good reason not to restore Panthera uncia to the synonym box. Richard New Forest ( talk) 22:23, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
From Colin GroveS: There are actually other synonyms of Uncia uncia; a colleague of mine is at present revising the species, and thinks there may be subspecies, and I compiled the following synonymy for him:
- UtherSRG (talk) 03:18, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm done for the time being although I still see room for improvement. I'd like others to look at my revisions before making more. I'm going back to the States next week and I'll have better and more stable access and will be able to find some of the primary sources for references. I'm going to contact Jackson or McCarthy as well as the Cat Spec Grp and get some more info if I can and hopefully get permission to use their updated distribution map. There are some references out there on loss of habitat over the last 15 or so years. There's been a 50% reduction in population size however there's also some surprising data on an increase in size of their range with a shift to a more northern range. I can't access it from China or I've just forgotten where to look for it. I'm having to deal with hans zi script a great deal because I can't access many search engines here. And I can't read pinyin well much less hans zi! Look forward to hearing from you. Jobberone ( talk) 04:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Someone changed the range in the lead to Asia from Central Asia. The ref I added (#4) months ago does not reflect that. AFAIK there is no recent data that reflects any change from that distribution. If anyone has recent data reflecting a change in distribution then I'd like to see it. There has been some movement northwards into other areas of C Asia but AFAIK no extension into SE Asia. Jobberone ( talk) 15:01, 21 December 2012 (UTC)