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Snooker plus was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 11 May 2013 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Snooker. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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Suite101.com says that "Volunteer Snooker is a variation of snooker that was alive and popular in the late 1950's". www.suite101.com/article.cfm/cue_sports/24540 Якушев Илья ( talk) 15:53, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
The small book "Snooker Games" by Mike Stooke (1988, ISBN 9780951297704) documents more snooker variations, "chase the green", "crash" and "cricket", that either need articles or should have short coverage here. Or maybe there should be a Variants of snooker article with all of these as well as volunteer snooker, sinuca Brasileira, etc. Needs to be resolved one of these three ways. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 21:02, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
Text added by IP: Snookerpool is also a commonly played variant especially within the casual or amateur community, which is full snooker played on a standard 9-ball table; the larger pockets make shots somewhat easier and players are able to torch the cueball into the pack much more easily for a better spread of reds.
The edit was reverted as unsourced. I still think there might be something in this so I've appealed to the IP on their
Talk page for clarification. But without any sources, there's not really a lot we can do with it.
Rodney Baggins (
talk) 14:16, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Chiswick Chap ( talk · contribs) 13:56, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
What a fine article. I shall have only small comments to make.
Well I think we're all done here, in record time. Like an O'Sullivan break, or something. Great work. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 15:05, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
The BACC "eventually agreed to stage the first Professional Championship of Snooker's Pool in the 1926-27 season. It was a season-long tournament; the first world championship game was between Melbourne Inman and Tom Newman at Thurston's Hall, played between November 26 and December 6, 1926 ... The final, which Davis won, was held at one of Camkin's Billiard Halls in Birmingham, and started on May 9, 1927." [1] Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 17:56, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
"During the 1880s rumours of this new game reached England, and when John Roberts went to India on one of his tours he had it in his mind to find out the rules. One evening in 1885 in Calcutta, Chamberlain was dining with the Maharajah of Cooch Behar when Roberts was introduced to him. Roberts duly brought the game back to England. It was many a long day before snooker became widely played. Not every hall nor every club could afford a snooker set of 22 balls although it was not long before the manufacturers appreciated snooker's superior commercial possibilities." [2]
"The rules of snooker, which had been subject to many variations, were codified in when the Billiards Association and Billiards Control Club amalgamated in 1919. The drawn game was abolished when provision was made for the black to be respotted at the end of a frame if the scores were equal. The free ball was introduced to supersede the BCC rule that if a player was snookered he could have the snookering ball(s) taken up so that he could play onto the 'nearest ball playable' ... The penalty for going in-off a red was still only one, the four point minimum penalty still being a few years away. The touching ball rule was introduced in 1927." [3]
Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 12:22, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
"Unfortunately, there are no contemporary accounts of the invention of the game, and the preceding story [i.e. about Chamberlain in India] was not related until the 1930s. No description of snooker before that time contains any mention of its genesis, and news articles concerning Chamberlain make no reference of any role he may have had in its invention."; "The game was introduced into Australia in 1887 by Frank Smith Sr." [4] On page 229, Shamos lists the following variations, each of which have their own entry in the Encyclopedia: American Snooker, Canadian Snooker, Devil-among-the-tailors, four-handed snooker, Golf, Liability, Nine-hole snooker, Pay ball, Penalty game, Pink pool, Savile snooker, Short snooker, Snooker billiards, Snooker golf, Snooker plus, Snooker roulette, Snookerette, Volunteer snooker. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 12:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
In August 1924, Tom Dennis wrote to the BA&CC asking them to organise an open professional snooker tournament. BA&CC Secretary A. Stanley Thorn replied "The suggestion will receive consideration at an early date but it seems a little doubtful whether snooker as a spectacular game is sufficiently popular to warrant the successful promotion of such a competition." [5]
" Camkin was also very much involved in instituting the professional snooker championship. As a proprietor of billiard halls, he knew full well how popular snooker was; and a conversation with Joe Davis, who had played snooker since his youthful days of managing billiard halls around Chesterfield, led to Davis's writing to the B.A. and C.C. drafting the conditions under which such an event could take place. The association gave their consent and issued conditions." [6]
"It is regarded as highly unlikely that anyone will ever dominate the game to [Joe Davis'] level again" - I had a browse through Everton's 1986 book looking at pages where the index had entries for Davis, and couldn't find a suitable source for this. It's now 35 years since that book was published, so I'm not sure that it could still be used to support such a statement (unless qualified) anyway. FWIW, I believe that it is highly unlikely; and it's the sort of thing that I think Everton (who remains in awe of Davis) could have written about. BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 11:49, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Sources
|
---|
|
(Just a few thoughts):
Peter Ainsworth argues that the game evolved more from the game of pyramids (called "shell-out" when more than two players were involved), rather than from the game of black pool. This is because in pyramids the players shared the same cue ball as snooker does, and the 15 reds were placed in a pyramid formation, in the same position as in modern snooker. But in black pool, no single cue ball is used, and it does not have a pack of reds. -
Ainsworth, Peter (10 October 2017). "The Origin of Snooker: The Neville Chamberlain Story" (PDF). p. 2.
Page 5 of above also gives reference to the game of pyramids and added were "the other coloured balls", and the simple rules for the game then prepared in 1882 at Ootacamund.
The following article gives 24 rules relating to "a new game called snookers". It was printed in a newspaper on 10 October 1884. Rule no.2 is interesting (at least to me anyway):
"Billiard players have been promised a new game called "Snookers", which we are assured is to supplant Pyramids and Pool ere long.
The rules are given below: ...
2. - 15 red balls are placed on the table as in "Pyramids", and four "coloured" balls shall be placed, thus:
the yellow ball on the centre of the D, the brown ball on the centre spot, the green ball on the pyramid spot at the apex of the triangle of red balls and the blue on the billiard spot. The player plays with the white ball and from the D when in hand.
The value of the balls shall be: Red 1, Yellow 2, Green 3, Brown 4, and Blue 5.... -
"A New Game of Billiards". Civil & Military Gazette. Lahore: E. A. Smedley. 10 October 1884. p. 6 – via British Newspaper Archive.
Reddog78 ( talk) 16:10, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Snooker article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4 |
Snooker is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This
level-4 vital article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Snooker plus was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 11 May 2013 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Snooker. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
|
(Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Suite101.com says that "Volunteer Snooker is a variation of snooker that was alive and popular in the late 1950's". www.suite101.com/article.cfm/cue_sports/24540 Якушев Илья ( talk) 15:53, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
The small book "Snooker Games" by Mike Stooke (1988, ISBN 9780951297704) documents more snooker variations, "chase the green", "crash" and "cricket", that either need articles or should have short coverage here. Or maybe there should be a Variants of snooker article with all of these as well as volunteer snooker, sinuca Brasileira, etc. Needs to be resolved one of these three ways. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 21:02, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
Text added by IP: Snookerpool is also a commonly played variant especially within the casual or amateur community, which is full snooker played on a standard 9-ball table; the larger pockets make shots somewhat easier and players are able to torch the cueball into the pack much more easily for a better spread of reds.
The edit was reverted as unsourced. I still think there might be something in this so I've appealed to the IP on their
Talk page for clarification. But without any sources, there's not really a lot we can do with it.
Rodney Baggins (
talk) 14:16, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Chiswick Chap ( talk · contribs) 13:56, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
What a fine article. I shall have only small comments to make.
Well I think we're all done here, in record time. Like an O'Sullivan break, or something. Great work. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 15:05, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
The BACC "eventually agreed to stage the first Professional Championship of Snooker's Pool in the 1926-27 season. It was a season-long tournament; the first world championship game was between Melbourne Inman and Tom Newman at Thurston's Hall, played between November 26 and December 6, 1926 ... The final, which Davis won, was held at one of Camkin's Billiard Halls in Birmingham, and started on May 9, 1927." [1] Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 17:56, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
"During the 1880s rumours of this new game reached England, and when John Roberts went to India on one of his tours he had it in his mind to find out the rules. One evening in 1885 in Calcutta, Chamberlain was dining with the Maharajah of Cooch Behar when Roberts was introduced to him. Roberts duly brought the game back to England. It was many a long day before snooker became widely played. Not every hall nor every club could afford a snooker set of 22 balls although it was not long before the manufacturers appreciated snooker's superior commercial possibilities." [2]
"The rules of snooker, which had been subject to many variations, were codified in when the Billiards Association and Billiards Control Club amalgamated in 1919. The drawn game was abolished when provision was made for the black to be respotted at the end of a frame if the scores were equal. The free ball was introduced to supersede the BCC rule that if a player was snookered he could have the snookering ball(s) taken up so that he could play onto the 'nearest ball playable' ... The penalty for going in-off a red was still only one, the four point minimum penalty still being a few years away. The touching ball rule was introduced in 1927." [3]
Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 12:22, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
"Unfortunately, there are no contemporary accounts of the invention of the game, and the preceding story [i.e. about Chamberlain in India] was not related until the 1930s. No description of snooker before that time contains any mention of its genesis, and news articles concerning Chamberlain make no reference of any role he may have had in its invention."; "The game was introduced into Australia in 1887 by Frank Smith Sr." [4] On page 229, Shamos lists the following variations, each of which have their own entry in the Encyclopedia: American Snooker, Canadian Snooker, Devil-among-the-tailors, four-handed snooker, Golf, Liability, Nine-hole snooker, Pay ball, Penalty game, Pink pool, Savile snooker, Short snooker, Snooker billiards, Snooker golf, Snooker plus, Snooker roulette, Snookerette, Volunteer snooker. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 12:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
In August 1924, Tom Dennis wrote to the BA&CC asking them to organise an open professional snooker tournament. BA&CC Secretary A. Stanley Thorn replied "The suggestion will receive consideration at an early date but it seems a little doubtful whether snooker as a spectacular game is sufficiently popular to warrant the successful promotion of such a competition." [5]
" Camkin was also very much involved in instituting the professional snooker championship. As a proprietor of billiard halls, he knew full well how popular snooker was; and a conversation with Joe Davis, who had played snooker since his youthful days of managing billiard halls around Chesterfield, led to Davis's writing to the B.A. and C.C. drafting the conditions under which such an event could take place. The association gave their consent and issued conditions." [6]
"It is regarded as highly unlikely that anyone will ever dominate the game to [Joe Davis'] level again" - I had a browse through Everton's 1986 book looking at pages where the index had entries for Davis, and couldn't find a suitable source for this. It's now 35 years since that book was published, so I'm not sure that it could still be used to support such a statement (unless qualified) anyway. FWIW, I believe that it is highly unlikely; and it's the sort of thing that I think Everton (who remains in awe of Davis) could have written about. BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 11:49, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Sources
|
---|
|
(Just a few thoughts):
Peter Ainsworth argues that the game evolved more from the game of pyramids (called "shell-out" when more than two players were involved), rather than from the game of black pool. This is because in pyramids the players shared the same cue ball as snooker does, and the 15 reds were placed in a pyramid formation, in the same position as in modern snooker. But in black pool, no single cue ball is used, and it does not have a pack of reds. -
Ainsworth, Peter (10 October 2017). "The Origin of Snooker: The Neville Chamberlain Story" (PDF). p. 2.
Page 5 of above also gives reference to the game of pyramids and added were "the other coloured balls", and the simple rules for the game then prepared in 1882 at Ootacamund.
The following article gives 24 rules relating to "a new game called snookers". It was printed in a newspaper on 10 October 1884. Rule no.2 is interesting (at least to me anyway):
"Billiard players have been promised a new game called "Snookers", which we are assured is to supplant Pyramids and Pool ere long.
The rules are given below: ...
2. - 15 red balls are placed on the table as in "Pyramids", and four "coloured" balls shall be placed, thus:
the yellow ball on the centre of the D, the brown ball on the centre spot, the green ball on the pyramid spot at the apex of the triangle of red balls and the blue on the billiard spot. The player plays with the white ball and from the D when in hand.
The value of the balls shall be: Red 1, Yellow 2, Green 3, Brown 4, and Blue 5.... -
"A New Game of Billiards". Civil & Military Gazette. Lahore: E. A. Smedley. 10 October 1884. p. 6 – via British Newspaper Archive.
Reddog78 ( talk) 16:10, 11 October 2023 (UTC)