This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject R&B and Soul Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of R&B and Soul Music articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.R&B and Soul MusicWikipedia:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicTemplate:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicR&B and Soul Music articles
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below; there is no consensus to add an apostrophe in the current discussion, but that can be revisited if necessary.
Dekimasuよ!13:36, 14 May 2022 (UTC)reply
When all sources go one way that's the way Wikipedia goes. That's what common sense exceptions are for, exceptions called for at the top of every guideline.
Randy Kryn (
talk)
11:09, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Also see MOS:TITLECAPS: "Potential exceptions: Apply our five-letter rule (above) for prepositions except when a significant majority of current, reliable sources that are independent of the subject consistently capitalize, in the title of a specific work, a word that is frequently not a preposition, as in 'Like' and 'Past'."
Randy Kryn (
talk)
11:29, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Also consider the "Smokin":
Here in Billboard,
here in Vulture, and
here in Revolt, the title uses "Smokin' " rather than "Smokin", which seems more like ordinary English formatting (boldface added for emphasis). I didn't check a lot of sources, but quickly spotted those three.
Here in Under the Radar, the title uses "Smoking". —
BarrelProof (
talk)
17:12, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose per sources. Sources use the uppercase 'Out' and also do not use an apostrophe when writing Smokin. Silk Sonic themselves spell it “Smokin Out The Window” in their cd single cover. It should stay.
Zvig47 (
talk)
17:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Re "Sources ... do not use an apostrophe when writing Smokin", actually several sources do, as noted immediately above, and there are probably more. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
17:24, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
I don't understand your opinion,
MarioSoulTruthFan. "MOS:TITLECAPS and its 'five-letter rule'" would seem to support the suggested move, since out is a preposition of fewer than five letters and should thus presumably be lowercased.
Deor (
talk)
17:39, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Support per
MOS:CT. "out" is a preposition in this title, so it should be lowercased. The exception mentioned in MOS:CT refers to words that are "frequently not a preposition, as in 'Like' and 'Past'". This does not apply to "out", which is frequently a preposition (usually as part of "out of").
Darkday (
talk)
22:54, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Clearly the intent of that section is that it applies only if reliable sources are treating the word as something other than a preposition. That doesn't matter because in this case because it's clearly being used as a preposition. If it were "Smokin the Window Out" (adverb) or "The Smokin Window Was Out" (adjective) you might have an argument. --
Ahecht (
TALK PAGE)
14:13, 5 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment When looking at the sources for this article, grouping by publisher, it seems "Smokin Out The Window" is the more commonly used form:
"Smokin Out The Window"
ET Canada (Corus)
Bruno Mars on YouTube
Silk Sonic on Twitter
Multifaceted Media Ent.
Billboard (Penske) (they've used different formats in different places, but this is by far the most common)
I suggest not counting the self-published and promotional sources and the charts and music vending sites, as those do not generally exercise any meaningfully independent editorial control. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
16:44, 8 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Well, I think you can immediately disregard those that also capitalize "the". If they do that, they have no credibility in capitalization matters at all, no?
Deor (
talk)
17:35, 8 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Support. It is a short preposition, and under our formatting rules it should not be capitalized, regardless of whether sources capitalize it or not.
Rreagan007 (
talk)
17:36, 12 April 2022 (UTC)reply
This is a simple formatting issue, and exceptions should not be based on the formatting that other sources choose to use. Exceptions should only be when the title is unusual in some way, such as
Star Trek Into Darkness, where there really should be a colon in there, making it "Star Trek: Into Darkness", but the producers decided to leave out the colon for their own reasons. It looks like a lot of the sources capitalize "The" in this title too. Does that mean we should in the article title?
Rreagan007 (
talk)
18:40, 12 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Again, it's only most because of the huge number of references to 10 different domains used by a single source (Hung Medien). That's not representative of common usage. --
Ahecht (
TALK PAGE)
15:12, 4 May 2022 (UTC)reply
Support. The word "out" is a preposition in this case, so the proposal makes sense. To leave the title as it is would be akin to saying this title means that someone is, for example, placing a window in a barbecue smoker, which makes no sense.
Steel1943 (
talk)
18:16, 5 May 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Lead: Aftermath Entertainment and Atlantic Records released the song as part of their debut studio album. This could possibly make the reader think that AE and AR are a band (if they aren't familiar with RLs), and that SS didn't actually release the song.
Production and release: first para - quick question, all of that is included in the cd booklet? i don't have it so i wouldn't know...
Music video: "It also won video of the year, ..." The article just talked about it winning video of the year at a different award show, could we transition this so that the name of the second awards show is first, or add a transition that distinctly depicts it as a completely different award show, if that makes any sense
I still have some doubts regarding the last amendment. Please take a look and let me know if I need to fix something else. Thank you for the quick review, as well. Cheers,
MarioSoulTruthFan (
talk)
10:10, 3 July 2023 (UTC)reply
(Criteria marked are unassessed)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Funk
As I don't want to edit war, per
WP:Sticktosource we shouldn't take something like a genre interpretation as from weak phrasing if the source. Funk is used so arbitrarily in describing music as "funky" or whatever, but that doesn't mean the person would categorize as that genre. For this reason, I don't think it should be applied here. Thoughts?
Andrzejbanas (
talk)
06:58, 12 July 2023 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject R&B and Soul Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of R&B and Soul Music articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.R&B and Soul MusicWikipedia:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicTemplate:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicR&B and Soul Music articles
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below; there is no consensus to add an apostrophe in the current discussion, but that can be revisited if necessary.
Dekimasuよ!13:36, 14 May 2022 (UTC)reply
When all sources go one way that's the way Wikipedia goes. That's what common sense exceptions are for, exceptions called for at the top of every guideline.
Randy Kryn (
talk)
11:09, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Also see MOS:TITLECAPS: "Potential exceptions: Apply our five-letter rule (above) for prepositions except when a significant majority of current, reliable sources that are independent of the subject consistently capitalize, in the title of a specific work, a word that is frequently not a preposition, as in 'Like' and 'Past'."
Randy Kryn (
talk)
11:29, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Also consider the "Smokin":
Here in Billboard,
here in Vulture, and
here in Revolt, the title uses "Smokin' " rather than "Smokin", which seems more like ordinary English formatting (boldface added for emphasis). I didn't check a lot of sources, but quickly spotted those three.
Here in Under the Radar, the title uses "Smoking". —
BarrelProof (
talk)
17:12, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose per sources. Sources use the uppercase 'Out' and also do not use an apostrophe when writing Smokin. Silk Sonic themselves spell it “Smokin Out The Window” in their cd single cover. It should stay.
Zvig47 (
talk)
17:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Re "Sources ... do not use an apostrophe when writing Smokin", actually several sources do, as noted immediately above, and there are probably more. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
17:24, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
I don't understand your opinion,
MarioSoulTruthFan. "MOS:TITLECAPS and its 'five-letter rule'" would seem to support the suggested move, since out is a preposition of fewer than five letters and should thus presumably be lowercased.
Deor (
talk)
17:39, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Support per
MOS:CT. "out" is a preposition in this title, so it should be lowercased. The exception mentioned in MOS:CT refers to words that are "frequently not a preposition, as in 'Like' and 'Past'". This does not apply to "out", which is frequently a preposition (usually as part of "out of").
Darkday (
talk)
22:54, 4 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Clearly the intent of that section is that it applies only if reliable sources are treating the word as something other than a preposition. That doesn't matter because in this case because it's clearly being used as a preposition. If it were "Smokin the Window Out" (adverb) or "The Smokin Window Was Out" (adjective) you might have an argument. --
Ahecht (
TALK PAGE)
14:13, 5 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment When looking at the sources for this article, grouping by publisher, it seems "Smokin Out The Window" is the more commonly used form:
"Smokin Out The Window"
ET Canada (Corus)
Bruno Mars on YouTube
Silk Sonic on Twitter
Multifaceted Media Ent.
Billboard (Penske) (they've used different formats in different places, but this is by far the most common)
I suggest not counting the self-published and promotional sources and the charts and music vending sites, as those do not generally exercise any meaningfully independent editorial control. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
16:44, 8 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Well, I think you can immediately disregard those that also capitalize "the". If they do that, they have no credibility in capitalization matters at all, no?
Deor (
talk)
17:35, 8 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Support. It is a short preposition, and under our formatting rules it should not be capitalized, regardless of whether sources capitalize it or not.
Rreagan007 (
talk)
17:36, 12 April 2022 (UTC)reply
This is a simple formatting issue, and exceptions should not be based on the formatting that other sources choose to use. Exceptions should only be when the title is unusual in some way, such as
Star Trek Into Darkness, where there really should be a colon in there, making it "Star Trek: Into Darkness", but the producers decided to leave out the colon for their own reasons. It looks like a lot of the sources capitalize "The" in this title too. Does that mean we should in the article title?
Rreagan007 (
talk)
18:40, 12 April 2022 (UTC)reply
Again, it's only most because of the huge number of references to 10 different domains used by a single source (Hung Medien). That's not representative of common usage. --
Ahecht (
TALK PAGE)
15:12, 4 May 2022 (UTC)reply
Support. The word "out" is a preposition in this case, so the proposal makes sense. To leave the title as it is would be akin to saying this title means that someone is, for example, placing a window in a barbecue smoker, which makes no sense.
Steel1943 (
talk)
18:16, 5 May 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Lead: Aftermath Entertainment and Atlantic Records released the song as part of their debut studio album. This could possibly make the reader think that AE and AR are a band (if they aren't familiar with RLs), and that SS didn't actually release the song.
Production and release: first para - quick question, all of that is included in the cd booklet? i don't have it so i wouldn't know...
Music video: "It also won video of the year, ..." The article just talked about it winning video of the year at a different award show, could we transition this so that the name of the second awards show is first, or add a transition that distinctly depicts it as a completely different award show, if that makes any sense
I still have some doubts regarding the last amendment. Please take a look and let me know if I need to fix something else. Thank you for the quick review, as well. Cheers,
MarioSoulTruthFan (
talk)
10:10, 3 July 2023 (UTC)reply
(Criteria marked are unassessed)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Funk
As I don't want to edit war, per
WP:Sticktosource we shouldn't take something like a genre interpretation as from weak phrasing if the source. Funk is used so arbitrarily in describing music as "funky" or whatever, but that doesn't mean the person would categorize as that genre. For this reason, I don't think it should be applied here. Thoughts?
Andrzejbanas (
talk)
06:58, 12 July 2023 (UTC)reply