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Why is there no section on the distinctly homoerotic overtones in Lex and Clark's relationship? As they share those long, tense pauses after Lex has just posed a difficult question which skirts close to uncovering Clark's ture identity - surely most viewers can see the analogy for unacknowledged homosexual love? I'd be interested to hear anyone's thughts on this. -- 82.44.21.151 15:32, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I've taken up the Smallville series article and cleaned up most of the content. Let me present you the latest and significant changes and updates:
Future updates by me will include:
There's still a lot to do and as Clark said, "I can't do this alone", so I encourage all Smallville fans to unite for this cause and help with:
If you need help or want to suggest ideas, feel free to use this section!
-- Charlie144 07:43, October 18, 2005 (UTC)
So I was bold in reverting the linking of every episode.
For some series, Wikipedia does have an article series for each episode. I think the potential for Smallville to have an article for each episode is limited. Maybe a separate article called "List of Smallville episodes" and having brief synopses there? Major plot points, such as "Clark reveals his secret to Pete in such-and-such episode" could be placed there as well. Just a suggestion. -- Christopherlin 04:38, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be at least some images to illustrate an article of this length? -- Fritz S. 12:26, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
Do we even need this section? Can't we just put a link in the see also section? It's kind of garish. Whispering 02:24, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
yeah, a lot of shows change there opening credits, but you dont see pics of each of those credits on other pages. This is just more fancruft that should be removed. Tik 17:55, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I don't really feel like logging in right now, but this is just an anonymous comment... lousy article. I know there are Smallville FANATICS out there, where are they? This article is pathetic and told me nothing about the tv show. Seriously. And yeah, the buncha images for the opening credits — silly! And yeah, garish. 24.196.19.87 11:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
SPIKE arrives.
There are way too many fansites. Wikipedia guidelines state that there only should be one fansite. I'll let someone else determine which is the best one to keep, but the foreign language fansites should definitely go. PS2pcGAMER 10:49, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I recently updated all the links and restored the foreign ones. Just selected the best of the best from the english ones, not taking into consideration webrings or forums, the ones remaining should provide all the required information from the show. On the other hand, I consider that foreign fansites are necessary, since not only english speaking people visit Wikipedia in English. Furthermore, the foreign versions of the Smallville article in other languages need a lot of work, so this article and the foreign links will encourage people from all around the world to improve their native language sections in Wikipedia. -- Charlie144 15:43, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Just a heads-up regarding the fan sites... if there's a limit to what can be added, why does Devoted to Smallville keep re-adding themselves? They've also editorialized a lot... it is not the largest, KryptonSite is much larger.
Whoever added them before had an obvious bias in calling them the largest, and bolding their site name to give more attention. I just think since KryptonSite was up first, if there is a limit to the fan sites as mentioned in an earlier thread here, where it says "Wikipedia guidelines state that there only should be one fansite," K-Site should have the nod. Especially when the episode titles in the episode guide all come from KryptonSite and not DTS. If there's no limit, then by all means include both of them.
I removed the external links from the the Smallville (Season 2) and Smallville (Season 5) articles, as they were not present in the 1, 3, and 4 season articles, and are not part of the standard season articles seen for other TV shows. We can put this up to the general TV wikiproject if you guys like, but I thought I'd put a discussion up here to see what everyone though. I personally don't see the need to link to these fansites from both the main show article and each season, and I believe that's the consensus seen on other tv show article groups. -- DDG 18:49, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
LOIS IS TARGETED FOR MURDER - The spirit of a young girl is released after Lois (Erica Durance) finds a corpse in the walls of the Talon. Clark (Tom Welling) and Lois must follow the trail of the spirit and find her killer, who has been preying on girls in Smallville for the past 10 years. When Lois is suddenly kidnapped, Clark comes to the rescue. Kristin Kreuk, Michael Rosenbaum, Allison Mack, John Glover, Annette O'Toole and John Schneider also star. Steven S. DeKnight wrote the episode directed by Whitney Ransick (#2T6414).
---Wikipedia -The spirit of a young girl is released from her tomb after Lois finds a corpse in the walls of the Talon. Clark and Lois follow the trail of the spirit to find her killer, who has been preying on girls in Smallville for the past 10 years. When Lois is suddenly kidnapped, Clark has to come to her rescue. [[I added the "from her tomb" part in the wikipedia section and removed the actor's names. As you can see they are the same. This is the way it always is until the episode airs and people go in and edit or retcon (as this episode require because Lois didn't have as much of a part as theWB description led to believe). That description is found on Kryptonsite.com in their news section. Also, the part in the "FRAGILE" episode that states "this will be Tom Welling's Directorial Debut" (i added) came from Kryptonsite.com.
Not all of those websites listed on the main page were created by the producers of the series. But, as I have proven we do get information directly from kryptonsite.com Bignole 19:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate the attribution if KryptonSite is the site giving the information for titles and such. If those links were not there others would repost the information on other sites without proper credit. At least now if people say "Wikipedia said this" there still is a link to the original source. Also, I hope no one minds, I edited the KryptonSite description again. Someone claimed it was the first Lois & Clark site, that's actually not true, though it was the first Smallville site and did evolve from a Lois & Clark newsletter. 69.234.100.142 21:18, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
If you use it as a reference for future episodes then cite it appropiately but it is not suitable in the external links section there is too much advertising. WP:EL clearly states sites with objectionable levels of advertising should not be linked. The only exception being for use as a reference when no other alternative is possible. I also question this sites use for future episodes, fan sites are prone to conjecture. Only official sources should be used for future events. I am not familiar with the site enough to judge whether it can be counted as an "official" source but it does not belong in EL and on the season pages it should not be pointing to the sites main page but to the appropiate season page Discordance 23:09, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Well i'm ok with it being used as a reference as long as its pointing to the correct page and you seem confident in its reliability. But i'm sorry the only way the adverts could be more objectionable is a stream of pop-ups as it is i get redirected onto ad-pages whilst waiting for a page to load, and for all i know there could be pop-ups as im running a blocker. Most fan sites contain far less advertising smallvilleph.com has nothing in comparison and how these sites receive funding is of no concern to the enclyclopia the general consensus is ads are bad and this site can barely cram any more in. All I ask is smallvilleph.com be put in the external links, kryptonsite can still be a reference wherever you like. Discordance 00:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Just a small note, some of the descriptions for the fansites had a tone that seemed like they were being advertised (at least to me). Instead of describing them, I tightened it to only have the site's name. Hopefully it will seem more impartial this way. my edits -- PS2pcGAMER ( talk) 01:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Please stop repointing the link. If images come from kyptonsite that information must go on the image page of every single image you cannot just point it vaguely at the site on the page the images are used on. I work with fair use images a lot, and you may use screen captures from krytpon site but every image must have the exact page you found it on not just the front page of the website. Along with copyright information and reasoning why the image is fair use. The images do not need reporting for violation however the regular smallville editors should consider this an ongoing task to properly attribute fair use on all the images. The same for using the site as a reference pointing to the front page is simply not good enough. Using season 5 as an example the reference section should point to the season 5 guide (although you could actually link twice first to the season 5 guide then the main page). Any additional information eg. particular titles and dates not on the season 5 page should be cited to the appropiate pages on the site also using notes. Discordance 02:50, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm new to WikiPedia... I added my site to the "Fansites" listing for a couple of reasons. First, it was acknowledged in three issues of "Smallville: The Official Magazine" and is currently the web's best repository of all things related to Ezra Small (see your link in "Official Sites" about the Ezra Small Museum that requires you to highlight the whole page to reveal a hidden message; that's just one of the things analyzed at my site). It's also currently a jumping-off point for analysis of the coded messages of Project Mercury 2.0, the newest WB official "Smallville"-related site (which I also added to the "Official Sites" list). Finally, I just notice there's a complete lack of coverage of the Ezra Small Prophecies here on WikiPedia and thought they could use a little love... They've had kind of a cult following behind-the-scenes of "Smallville" since 2004 and are just now starting to attract a lot more attention due to the Project Mercury blog. Please feel free to delete if you think I'm out of line!!! Thanks, all. 24.192.103.193 16:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC) Shirkie
I havent heard anything official but wanted to ask, is Season 5 the last season for smallville? There is a lot of substance left in the series still available to the characters and i wouldnt figure they would cancel the show yet. With the plots they are setting up and the animosity of the characters intensifying, i would think season 6 would be a better wrap up than any, since it would probably lead to the clarke graduating or starting work at the daily planet and becoming superman while the lex arc of spiraling into evil (one of the best storylines in the show) would also have enough tmie to evolve to what is currently the defacto Lex luthor. Tik 15:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the part of the article that claims the Kent farm is in Cloverdale. Cloverdale is a part of Langley; basically, the western/southern part. (Actually, I may be wrong about this, it might be southeast Surrey. In fact, I think it *is* SE Surrey.) While this is where the city scenes are filmed, this is not where the Kent farm is located -- it's still in Langley, but much too far east to be considered Cloverdale. However, rather than correcting the location of the Kent farm I've removed it -- it's a private residence, after all. -- Steven Fisher 05:13, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Question: I've seen what Clark can do on the series (Smallville) like throwing a tracter several miles, seeming like no more than a momentary blure when running, and making Super-Jumps, but I was wondering if anyone had any specific details about his abilities like the most he can lift, fastest he can run/fly in the Smallville Show like they have over in the article about Superman's Powers. Does anyone know?
Is there a reason an encyclopedia needs this information? Jdavidb ( talk • contribs) 02:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi guys, In order to avoid spoiling the plot to future visitors of the Smallville article, it'd be better to just mention the characters in the same block, thus removing the "Past Characters" part. I'm proceeding right now, since one of our fellow characters is dead, and it won't be necessary to spoil it anymore. Please add your comments. -- Charlie144 14:36, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
For an example of a properly attributed image see [1]. Note it has a breif descripton of the image, including the episode its from and tv show. It tells you what website it was obtained from and gives you the exact page as a link. It tells you who owns the copyright and has the correct license tag. And most importantly it explains why i think its fair use in the article, in this case it illustrates the main plotline of the episode (cartman having an anal probe) and helps people identify cartman.
All of those things are required for fair use.
Theres no rush in tidying up the pages but as i mentioned before it needs to be on a to-do list for smallville editors.
Bignole you mentioned kryptonsites logo. sorry but thats inappropiate, the site should be properly referenced but that doesnt including using its logo. I have no idea what the sites logo looks like and neither will the average person, not to mention logos themselves have copyright issues wikiproject fairuse would go bananas. Just stick to text and links. Discordance 03:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Ah its on the image, well in that case its ok to include if you have permission from the site owner and it would be wrong to crop the images. However as the images are from a copyrighted tv show it would be best to try to find clean images. Marked images are only suitable when theres no alternative, from the way you talk about the site i assume they have some exclusive images we wont be able to find anywhere else? When it comes to old episodes already aired the best source would be to take some screenshots off the dvd. Or some programs like southpark have screenshots of every episode on their official websites (southparkstudios.com) thats often a good source of images. Discordance 14:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I took the bus to Cloverdale today and snapped several cell phone pics. While not high quality, I think those pics would be a neat addition to the filming locations section, however if they take up too much bulk, then feel free to move them to another page or something. -- Buchanan-Hermit™.. CONTRIBS.. SPEAK! 02:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Those pictures are awesome! I hope everyone agrees we can keep them... Emily 03:20, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I added a pic of the university scenes used in the series. There's now an empty white spot in the gallery, but it will be filled up later, as I figured out the locations of Kent Farm and the bridge from the pilot where Clark gets hit by Lex. And, as noted before, I'm also going to try to get pics from "Smallville High." I have a feeling this gallery might be quite big, so moving it to its own separate page might be an idea to keep in mind. -- Buchanan-Hermit™.. CONTRIBS.. SPEAK! 17:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
"series follows the adventures of the young Clark Kent in the town of Smallville before he became Superman." I believe this statement in the article is incorrect, I thought I recalled Loeb stating that the series is a reimagining of the Superman universe in an adolescent world.
I'm not trying to heckle or be disrespectful, but I believe that Ausiello and kryptonsite.com have established that Zod will be in the season finale: http://www.tvguide.com/News/Ausiello/AskAusiello/default.htm?rmDate=03292006
Again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but does that constitute speculation on my part, Bignole? Or does the fact that Jor-El and (possibly) Zod won't be in their own actual bodies in the episode discount their actual appearance on the show?
Ausiello: Yes, they'll both pop up in the season finale — but they won't be who we think they are. And here's another finale superscoop: Lois and another major character will end up on an airplane that's locked in autopilot — and there's only one person who knows where it's headed. (Hint: He looks like a platinum-topped vampire we once knew and loved.)
rlee1185 20:12, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Most of these areas need to be slimmed down. The "History of the Show" section really needs to be slimmed down, and also broken into sub-sections. The pictures of the "real locations" need to be fixed and put back in, or removed altogether. There is no point in having a partially complete table of pictures. Bignole 12:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
History of the show seems to be more about the failed Batman project than Smallville. Worth a mention? Yes, but this isn't the place to go into that much detail. 70.167.19.131 23:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Dear Bignole, why do you exterminate the whole Trivia section of that Smallville article without even go over and read thoroughly and reconsider them carefully? Although that whole stuff was terribly written like what you've just said, there are yet some clear points written on it are still relevant plus there are also some other points that might not have mention it from the respective Season pages! Maybe it must not be written in alphabetical form that prompted you to wipe them all out! So, PLEASE do think carefully before any appropriate action is taken by you or anyone else as well! Besides, those Trivia that I've added them took me over about two hours non-stop of full hardcore strenuous effort and hard work that I've put into so much! How terrible you are, Bignole!!! - onWheeZierPLot Tuesday, 4th July, 2006ad.
*Bly, Nellie: Pioneering female investigative journalist, popular in the late 19th century and hero of Clark's pal Chloe, is also a former editor of Smallville High's student newspaper, The Torch.
*Crosby, Bridgette: Colleague of scientist Virgil Swann (Christopher Reeve, see Virgil Swann in this Trivia), played by Margot Kidder. Crosby tells Martha Kent she had a relationship with Swann "in a different lifetime," a nod to the Superman movies, in which Kidder played Lois Lane to Reeve's Superman.
*Guest Stars: The Who's Who of young guest stars on Smallville has included Desperate Housewives Jesse Metcalfe, The O.C.s Adam Brody and Losts Evangeline Lilly and Ian Somerhalder.
*Ian Somerhalder: Before boarding Oceanic Air Flight 815, Somerhalder (who played Boone in that show) did a six-episode arc on Smallville as Adam Knight, a mysterious newcomer sent by Lionel Luthor to keep tabs on Clark. There was much Internet speculation that his name was a nod to Batman (Adam West played the Dark Knight on TV in the 1960s). "That was people's imaginations running wild," says executive producer Al Gough. "But we didn't go out of our way to dispel that!"
*Justice League Allusions: Two superfriends hinted at a future Justice League of America when they showed up in Smallville. In Season Four, Bart Alien, aka the Flash, suggested that he and Clark find other super-powered types and "start, like, a club or a league or something." In Season Five, Aquaman-in-training Arthur Curry proposed he and Clark start a Junior Lifeguard Association, to which Clark responded, "I'm not sure I'm ready for the JLA just yet."
*Lex Luthor, Lana Lang and Lois Lane: Legend has it that the initial L are most prevalent in Superman's world were a tribute to a girlfriend or unrequited love of one of the character's creators. Smallville producers put their own spin on it with Chloe Sullivan - the only main character created for the series - who has the double L embedded in her last name.
*Oscar Nomination: Annette O'Toole, who plays Clark's mum, Martha Kent, was nominated for an Academy award in 2004ad for co-writing the song "A Kiss at the End of the Rainbow" from the film "A Mighty Wind." O'Toole wrote the song with her husband, Michael McKean, who guest-starred on Smallville as a tabloid journalist (and future Daily Planet editor) Perry White.
*Richard Donner Connection: Director of four Superman movies back in the 1970s and 1980s. "The first Superman movie was hugely influential for us," says Gough, who, with producing partner Miles Millar, worked with Donner on 1998ad's Lethal Weapon 4. Donner "was always trying to ground the character," Gough reveals. "He wanted Clark Kent and Superman to feel real, like they could exist in the world."
*Terence Stamp: British actor who provides the voice of Jor-El, Clark's biological father. Stamp's connection to Superman mythology runs deep: He played General Zod (see Zod in this Trivia) in the first two Superman movies.
*Uncle Fester: Pete's nickname for the bald Lex Luthor.
*Virgil Swann: Reclusive billionaire who taught Clark about the fate of planet Krypton. Swann was played by the ultimate Superman, the late Christopher Reeve.
*X-Ray Vision: Clark's ability to see through anything - except lead.
Google shows 263 hits on "No Tights, No Flights" (which is the version I always heard) and only 49 for "No Tights, No Flight". Among the 263 is http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue308/interview.html in which Alfred Gough is quoted as using the plural version. Can anyone document evidence for the single version? -- Keeves 20:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
The show had two doctors in which their last names were taken from the comics: Dr. Hamilton and Dr. Teng. However, the comics was Emil Hamilton, rather than Stephen Hamilton. I'm not too sure abou the comics Dr. Teng. Should these be added in the comic guest stars, even though it's not really the same character?-- CasimirAngel 20:05, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree that the dispute needs to be mentioned, and the overview section seems like the most logical location for it. However, the contention between the two parties does not have any bearing on which character Smallville is based on. If the creators say Superman, then it is Superman. After this has been stated, then we can go on to mention the legal conflict. Wisdom89 06:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
If there are three competing, serious, claims about what the series is based on, then, yes, you should say "Smallville is either based on Clark Kent, Superman, or Superboy". It's not Wikipedia's job to state that one of those claims is true and the others are not. You cannot say that WB should be considered a definitive source due to them owning the rights; first of all, you don't actually know they own the rights (as the rights are part of what is being disputed), and second, we don't always automatically believe the word of the rights owner. For instance, in Baby Ruth we report the company's claim that the candy bar was named after Grover Cleveland's daughter, but we don't treat that as a fact, and there isn't even a lawsuit involved. People can lie or be mistaken about their own properties. Ken Arromdee 01:57, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
"The creators have the right to say what it is based on, THEY CREATED IT."
Again, THIS ISN'T TRUE. There is no Wikipedia policy which says that the creators' word must be accepted over someone else's. I've already given examples where we don't do that at all.
"You'd have dozens of shows that way just because someone decided to sue."
Really? Name some. This sort of thing is pretty rare, at least if we're not talking about obviously frivolous lawsuits. This isn't just some guy off the street claiming WB ripped him off.
"Why are we suddenly required to just have one statement? Why not mention contraversy?"
I tried to do that. Bignole would only be satisfied if the article claimed as a fact that the series was based on Superman and described the controversy later. It shouldn't be claiming this as fact in the first place since it isn't established as fact. Ken Arromdee 16:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I've been asked to give a third opinion on this dispute. Quite frankly, there's a very simple solution to this - NPOV. Ideally, it should be worded on the form "Group X claims that Smallville is based on Superman because... [cite source showing that they do], while group Y claims that it is based on Superboy because... [cite source showing that they do].", and so on, until all the points of view have been covered. Both of you have shown extensive knowledge of at least one side of the debate; put it into the article instead of slinging it back and forth on the talk page! Make it clear that there is a dispute, and furthermore, make it clear what that dispute is, and who support each side. It may be advantageous to take the entire paragraph out of the overview, and expand it into a section in it's own right about the roots and inspirations of the show. -- Scott Wilson 18:13, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
An important fact in this argument. Early Superman comics game minimal information about the childhood of Clark Kent. It was in Superboy comics that it was first established that Clark Kent grew up in a small town called Smallville.-- Drvanthorp 23:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
This is a dispute about whether to state that Smallville is "based on the character Superman", or to state that there are two competing claims as to what character Smallville is based on, one being Superman and another being Superboy. 22:29, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
http://www.newsarama.com/general/smallville.html
http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6323787.html
http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,18747,00.html?fdnew
http://www.sfx.co.uk/news/smallville_hit_with_super_suit
"You keep claiming that there is a dispute about Smallville being based on Superboy/Superman. There is no such legal dispute. They have not claimed that, nor has a lawsuit been filed."
As far as I can tell, you keep saying this not because there isn't a lawsuit, since there certainly is, but because the lawsuit doesn't use the exact words "based on". Claiming that Smallville is derived from Superboy, claiming that Smallville is about Superboy, or claiming that Smallville infringes the copyright of Superboy are all other ways of saying that Smallville is based on Superboy. The use of the words "based on" is irrelevant. Ken Arromdee 04:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I think it would be useful to have a list of all guest characters that identifies who knows Clark' secret.
This is a ridiculous argument. Superboy is the same character as Superman. No version of the original Superboy (I don't include the recent cloned version) has ever claimed that Superboy and Superman are different fictional entities. Superboy is the young version of Superman. Perhaps if he ever ages further, he will be Supergeezer. That will not mean that he is a different character. Clark Kent is the same fictional entity as both Superman and Superboy. Clark Kent is the adopted name of the fictional entity Kal El. The show Smallville is based upon this one, single character. This character was originally created by Siegel and the rights are owned by DC. If there is a court ruling that the Siegels own the rights to Superboy, then that should be construed to mean they own the rights to portrayals of this character as a young man. Since it's the same character, it is correct to say that Smallville is based on Superman, and it is also incorrect to say that Smallville is NOT based on Superboy. Applejuicefool 15:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
The problem that I see with the Siegel's case is this; Superboy was created in the Silver Age comics to add a new dimension in Kal-El. This was not the original childhood of Superman. Also, in most modern comics Kal-El did not spend his teen years as Superboy but rather just Clark Kent. Also, any interpretation of a comic book can illude to him being Superboy as a child or not and not have to give specific reference to Siegal's or pay added royalties on top the standard fee. Since Smallville is just another telling of the story, they should be able to interpret Clark's teen years any way that they wish. Manofthespoon 21:42, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
"Would both sides accept that Smallville is based on the DC Comics character Clark Kent?"
In this context, there isn't any such thing as "the character" Clark Kent, there are two of them. I'd accept that Smallville is based on *a* character Clark Kent, but that seems like very awkward wording.
"Superboy was based on Superman."
You'd think so, but this isn't true. Superboy is a separate character and being based on Superboy does not mean being based on Superman.
"The creator gets to say what it is based on"
NO! This is not true! The creator *doesn't* get to say what it's based on. Certainly the creator may be *a* source, but the creator isn't the definitive source. The fact that DC claims the series is based on Superman does *not* mean we must accept that as fact. In this situation the creator's statement is being directly challenged as untrue in a situation where the creator has obvious motive to make the specific claim. We can't, therefore, accept the creator's word as factual. The creator's word is one side of a disputed issue.
"The lawsuit, which has not been filed, is to pertain to who owns Smallville the town, not Smallville the show."
[2] "The ruling therefore brings up the question of who owns the post-November 2004 episodes of Smallville."
Furthermore, the lawsuit has indeed been filed. (see above) "Still to be resolved is the question of whether Smallville—now in its fifth season—is actually infringing on the Superboy copyright. No trial date has been set in the suit, which was filed in 2004"
At any rate, I didn't say it was about who owns the show, I said it's about what the show is based on. The remaining part of the lawsuit is indeed about who the show is based on: "Enough facts are presented, where this court, contrary to defendants' request, could find that the main character in Smallville is in fact Superboy". [3] "I believe it's impossible to honestly trace the history of Smallville without accounting for its derivation from Superboy" [4] Ken Arromdee 05:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
I move to have this article follow the guideline of Arrested Development. This article is a Featured Article. What you will notice is that there is no individual season or episode pages. Each season is summed up in the article, all guest stars are listed, all recurring cast is listed, so forth and so on. If you look at other featured TV shows, you will see a similar pattern. I feel that most of us editors wish to have the best possible Smallville that we can, and I move to have this page done in that manner. What that will mean is the Season pages, and the newly created List of Smallville episodes will be deleted. Seeing as they are all technically unencyclopedic, a simple link in a "Further Reading" section would suffice in listing the episodes and other trivial matters. Bignole 03:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
All editors, please see discussion here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Smallville episodes Bignole 18:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Bignole, would you object to mediation over the character basis problem? Ken Arromdee 15:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Totally redundant, in my opinion, considering it partially exists here already. Request merge. (|-- UlTiMuS 09:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Bold text
Clearly a lot of this discussion is causing this page to balloon substantially and some of the older topics on it that have been resolved or otherwise addressed in such a manner that their originators feel they are "finished" clearly could be archived to cut down on the space they are consuming. 75.2.10.17 08:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
Why is there no section on the distinctly homoerotic overtones in Lex and Clark's relationship? As they share those long, tense pauses after Lex has just posed a difficult question which skirts close to uncovering Clark's ture identity - surely most viewers can see the analogy for unacknowledged homosexual love? I'd be interested to hear anyone's thughts on this. -- 82.44.21.151 15:32, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I've taken up the Smallville series article and cleaned up most of the content. Let me present you the latest and significant changes and updates:
Future updates by me will include:
There's still a lot to do and as Clark said, "I can't do this alone", so I encourage all Smallville fans to unite for this cause and help with:
If you need help or want to suggest ideas, feel free to use this section!
-- Charlie144 07:43, October 18, 2005 (UTC)
So I was bold in reverting the linking of every episode.
For some series, Wikipedia does have an article series for each episode. I think the potential for Smallville to have an article for each episode is limited. Maybe a separate article called "List of Smallville episodes" and having brief synopses there? Major plot points, such as "Clark reveals his secret to Pete in such-and-such episode" could be placed there as well. Just a suggestion. -- Christopherlin 04:38, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be at least some images to illustrate an article of this length? -- Fritz S. 12:26, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
Do we even need this section? Can't we just put a link in the see also section? It's kind of garish. Whispering 02:24, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
yeah, a lot of shows change there opening credits, but you dont see pics of each of those credits on other pages. This is just more fancruft that should be removed. Tik 17:55, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I don't really feel like logging in right now, but this is just an anonymous comment... lousy article. I know there are Smallville FANATICS out there, where are they? This article is pathetic and told me nothing about the tv show. Seriously. And yeah, the buncha images for the opening credits — silly! And yeah, garish. 24.196.19.87 11:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
SPIKE arrives.
There are way too many fansites. Wikipedia guidelines state that there only should be one fansite. I'll let someone else determine which is the best one to keep, but the foreign language fansites should definitely go. PS2pcGAMER 10:49, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I recently updated all the links and restored the foreign ones. Just selected the best of the best from the english ones, not taking into consideration webrings or forums, the ones remaining should provide all the required information from the show. On the other hand, I consider that foreign fansites are necessary, since not only english speaking people visit Wikipedia in English. Furthermore, the foreign versions of the Smallville article in other languages need a lot of work, so this article and the foreign links will encourage people from all around the world to improve their native language sections in Wikipedia. -- Charlie144 15:43, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Just a heads-up regarding the fan sites... if there's a limit to what can be added, why does Devoted to Smallville keep re-adding themselves? They've also editorialized a lot... it is not the largest, KryptonSite is much larger.
Whoever added them before had an obvious bias in calling them the largest, and bolding their site name to give more attention. I just think since KryptonSite was up first, if there is a limit to the fan sites as mentioned in an earlier thread here, where it says "Wikipedia guidelines state that there only should be one fansite," K-Site should have the nod. Especially when the episode titles in the episode guide all come from KryptonSite and not DTS. If there's no limit, then by all means include both of them.
I removed the external links from the the Smallville (Season 2) and Smallville (Season 5) articles, as they were not present in the 1, 3, and 4 season articles, and are not part of the standard season articles seen for other TV shows. We can put this up to the general TV wikiproject if you guys like, but I thought I'd put a discussion up here to see what everyone though. I personally don't see the need to link to these fansites from both the main show article and each season, and I believe that's the consensus seen on other tv show article groups. -- DDG 18:49, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
LOIS IS TARGETED FOR MURDER - The spirit of a young girl is released after Lois (Erica Durance) finds a corpse in the walls of the Talon. Clark (Tom Welling) and Lois must follow the trail of the spirit and find her killer, who has been preying on girls in Smallville for the past 10 years. When Lois is suddenly kidnapped, Clark comes to the rescue. Kristin Kreuk, Michael Rosenbaum, Allison Mack, John Glover, Annette O'Toole and John Schneider also star. Steven S. DeKnight wrote the episode directed by Whitney Ransick (#2T6414).
---Wikipedia -The spirit of a young girl is released from her tomb after Lois finds a corpse in the walls of the Talon. Clark and Lois follow the trail of the spirit to find her killer, who has been preying on girls in Smallville for the past 10 years. When Lois is suddenly kidnapped, Clark has to come to her rescue. [[I added the "from her tomb" part in the wikipedia section and removed the actor's names. As you can see they are the same. This is the way it always is until the episode airs and people go in and edit or retcon (as this episode require because Lois didn't have as much of a part as theWB description led to believe). That description is found on Kryptonsite.com in their news section. Also, the part in the "FRAGILE" episode that states "this will be Tom Welling's Directorial Debut" (i added) came from Kryptonsite.com.
Not all of those websites listed on the main page were created by the producers of the series. But, as I have proven we do get information directly from kryptonsite.com Bignole 19:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate the attribution if KryptonSite is the site giving the information for titles and such. If those links were not there others would repost the information on other sites without proper credit. At least now if people say "Wikipedia said this" there still is a link to the original source. Also, I hope no one minds, I edited the KryptonSite description again. Someone claimed it was the first Lois & Clark site, that's actually not true, though it was the first Smallville site and did evolve from a Lois & Clark newsletter. 69.234.100.142 21:18, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
If you use it as a reference for future episodes then cite it appropiately but it is not suitable in the external links section there is too much advertising. WP:EL clearly states sites with objectionable levels of advertising should not be linked. The only exception being for use as a reference when no other alternative is possible. I also question this sites use for future episodes, fan sites are prone to conjecture. Only official sources should be used for future events. I am not familiar with the site enough to judge whether it can be counted as an "official" source but it does not belong in EL and on the season pages it should not be pointing to the sites main page but to the appropiate season page Discordance 23:09, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Well i'm ok with it being used as a reference as long as its pointing to the correct page and you seem confident in its reliability. But i'm sorry the only way the adverts could be more objectionable is a stream of pop-ups as it is i get redirected onto ad-pages whilst waiting for a page to load, and for all i know there could be pop-ups as im running a blocker. Most fan sites contain far less advertising smallvilleph.com has nothing in comparison and how these sites receive funding is of no concern to the enclyclopia the general consensus is ads are bad and this site can barely cram any more in. All I ask is smallvilleph.com be put in the external links, kryptonsite can still be a reference wherever you like. Discordance 00:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Just a small note, some of the descriptions for the fansites had a tone that seemed like they were being advertised (at least to me). Instead of describing them, I tightened it to only have the site's name. Hopefully it will seem more impartial this way. my edits -- PS2pcGAMER ( talk) 01:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Please stop repointing the link. If images come from kyptonsite that information must go on the image page of every single image you cannot just point it vaguely at the site on the page the images are used on. I work with fair use images a lot, and you may use screen captures from krytpon site but every image must have the exact page you found it on not just the front page of the website. Along with copyright information and reasoning why the image is fair use. The images do not need reporting for violation however the regular smallville editors should consider this an ongoing task to properly attribute fair use on all the images. The same for using the site as a reference pointing to the front page is simply not good enough. Using season 5 as an example the reference section should point to the season 5 guide (although you could actually link twice first to the season 5 guide then the main page). Any additional information eg. particular titles and dates not on the season 5 page should be cited to the appropiate pages on the site also using notes. Discordance 02:50, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm new to WikiPedia... I added my site to the "Fansites" listing for a couple of reasons. First, it was acknowledged in three issues of "Smallville: The Official Magazine" and is currently the web's best repository of all things related to Ezra Small (see your link in "Official Sites" about the Ezra Small Museum that requires you to highlight the whole page to reveal a hidden message; that's just one of the things analyzed at my site). It's also currently a jumping-off point for analysis of the coded messages of Project Mercury 2.0, the newest WB official "Smallville"-related site (which I also added to the "Official Sites" list). Finally, I just notice there's a complete lack of coverage of the Ezra Small Prophecies here on WikiPedia and thought they could use a little love... They've had kind of a cult following behind-the-scenes of "Smallville" since 2004 and are just now starting to attract a lot more attention due to the Project Mercury blog. Please feel free to delete if you think I'm out of line!!! Thanks, all. 24.192.103.193 16:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC) Shirkie
I havent heard anything official but wanted to ask, is Season 5 the last season for smallville? There is a lot of substance left in the series still available to the characters and i wouldnt figure they would cancel the show yet. With the plots they are setting up and the animosity of the characters intensifying, i would think season 6 would be a better wrap up than any, since it would probably lead to the clarke graduating or starting work at the daily planet and becoming superman while the lex arc of spiraling into evil (one of the best storylines in the show) would also have enough tmie to evolve to what is currently the defacto Lex luthor. Tik 15:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the part of the article that claims the Kent farm is in Cloverdale. Cloverdale is a part of Langley; basically, the western/southern part. (Actually, I may be wrong about this, it might be southeast Surrey. In fact, I think it *is* SE Surrey.) While this is where the city scenes are filmed, this is not where the Kent farm is located -- it's still in Langley, but much too far east to be considered Cloverdale. However, rather than correcting the location of the Kent farm I've removed it -- it's a private residence, after all. -- Steven Fisher 05:13, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Question: I've seen what Clark can do on the series (Smallville) like throwing a tracter several miles, seeming like no more than a momentary blure when running, and making Super-Jumps, but I was wondering if anyone had any specific details about his abilities like the most he can lift, fastest he can run/fly in the Smallville Show like they have over in the article about Superman's Powers. Does anyone know?
Is there a reason an encyclopedia needs this information? Jdavidb ( talk • contribs) 02:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi guys, In order to avoid spoiling the plot to future visitors of the Smallville article, it'd be better to just mention the characters in the same block, thus removing the "Past Characters" part. I'm proceeding right now, since one of our fellow characters is dead, and it won't be necessary to spoil it anymore. Please add your comments. -- Charlie144 14:36, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
For an example of a properly attributed image see [1]. Note it has a breif descripton of the image, including the episode its from and tv show. It tells you what website it was obtained from and gives you the exact page as a link. It tells you who owns the copyright and has the correct license tag. And most importantly it explains why i think its fair use in the article, in this case it illustrates the main plotline of the episode (cartman having an anal probe) and helps people identify cartman.
All of those things are required for fair use.
Theres no rush in tidying up the pages but as i mentioned before it needs to be on a to-do list for smallville editors.
Bignole you mentioned kryptonsites logo. sorry but thats inappropiate, the site should be properly referenced but that doesnt including using its logo. I have no idea what the sites logo looks like and neither will the average person, not to mention logos themselves have copyright issues wikiproject fairuse would go bananas. Just stick to text and links. Discordance 03:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Ah its on the image, well in that case its ok to include if you have permission from the site owner and it would be wrong to crop the images. However as the images are from a copyrighted tv show it would be best to try to find clean images. Marked images are only suitable when theres no alternative, from the way you talk about the site i assume they have some exclusive images we wont be able to find anywhere else? When it comes to old episodes already aired the best source would be to take some screenshots off the dvd. Or some programs like southpark have screenshots of every episode on their official websites (southparkstudios.com) thats often a good source of images. Discordance 14:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I took the bus to Cloverdale today and snapped several cell phone pics. While not high quality, I think those pics would be a neat addition to the filming locations section, however if they take up too much bulk, then feel free to move them to another page or something. -- Buchanan-Hermit™.. CONTRIBS.. SPEAK! 02:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Those pictures are awesome! I hope everyone agrees we can keep them... Emily 03:20, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I added a pic of the university scenes used in the series. There's now an empty white spot in the gallery, but it will be filled up later, as I figured out the locations of Kent Farm and the bridge from the pilot where Clark gets hit by Lex. And, as noted before, I'm also going to try to get pics from "Smallville High." I have a feeling this gallery might be quite big, so moving it to its own separate page might be an idea to keep in mind. -- Buchanan-Hermit™.. CONTRIBS.. SPEAK! 17:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
"series follows the adventures of the young Clark Kent in the town of Smallville before he became Superman." I believe this statement in the article is incorrect, I thought I recalled Loeb stating that the series is a reimagining of the Superman universe in an adolescent world.
I'm not trying to heckle or be disrespectful, but I believe that Ausiello and kryptonsite.com have established that Zod will be in the season finale: http://www.tvguide.com/News/Ausiello/AskAusiello/default.htm?rmDate=03292006
Again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but does that constitute speculation on my part, Bignole? Or does the fact that Jor-El and (possibly) Zod won't be in their own actual bodies in the episode discount their actual appearance on the show?
Ausiello: Yes, they'll both pop up in the season finale — but they won't be who we think they are. And here's another finale superscoop: Lois and another major character will end up on an airplane that's locked in autopilot — and there's only one person who knows where it's headed. (Hint: He looks like a platinum-topped vampire we once knew and loved.)
rlee1185 20:12, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Most of these areas need to be slimmed down. The "History of the Show" section really needs to be slimmed down, and also broken into sub-sections. The pictures of the "real locations" need to be fixed and put back in, or removed altogether. There is no point in having a partially complete table of pictures. Bignole 12:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
History of the show seems to be more about the failed Batman project than Smallville. Worth a mention? Yes, but this isn't the place to go into that much detail. 70.167.19.131 23:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Dear Bignole, why do you exterminate the whole Trivia section of that Smallville article without even go over and read thoroughly and reconsider them carefully? Although that whole stuff was terribly written like what you've just said, there are yet some clear points written on it are still relevant plus there are also some other points that might not have mention it from the respective Season pages! Maybe it must not be written in alphabetical form that prompted you to wipe them all out! So, PLEASE do think carefully before any appropriate action is taken by you or anyone else as well! Besides, those Trivia that I've added them took me over about two hours non-stop of full hardcore strenuous effort and hard work that I've put into so much! How terrible you are, Bignole!!! - onWheeZierPLot Tuesday, 4th July, 2006ad.
*Bly, Nellie: Pioneering female investigative journalist, popular in the late 19th century and hero of Clark's pal Chloe, is also a former editor of Smallville High's student newspaper, The Torch.
*Crosby, Bridgette: Colleague of scientist Virgil Swann (Christopher Reeve, see Virgil Swann in this Trivia), played by Margot Kidder. Crosby tells Martha Kent she had a relationship with Swann "in a different lifetime," a nod to the Superman movies, in which Kidder played Lois Lane to Reeve's Superman.
*Guest Stars: The Who's Who of young guest stars on Smallville has included Desperate Housewives Jesse Metcalfe, The O.C.s Adam Brody and Losts Evangeline Lilly and Ian Somerhalder.
*Ian Somerhalder: Before boarding Oceanic Air Flight 815, Somerhalder (who played Boone in that show) did a six-episode arc on Smallville as Adam Knight, a mysterious newcomer sent by Lionel Luthor to keep tabs on Clark. There was much Internet speculation that his name was a nod to Batman (Adam West played the Dark Knight on TV in the 1960s). "That was people's imaginations running wild," says executive producer Al Gough. "But we didn't go out of our way to dispel that!"
*Justice League Allusions: Two superfriends hinted at a future Justice League of America when they showed up in Smallville. In Season Four, Bart Alien, aka the Flash, suggested that he and Clark find other super-powered types and "start, like, a club or a league or something." In Season Five, Aquaman-in-training Arthur Curry proposed he and Clark start a Junior Lifeguard Association, to which Clark responded, "I'm not sure I'm ready for the JLA just yet."
*Lex Luthor, Lana Lang and Lois Lane: Legend has it that the initial L are most prevalent in Superman's world were a tribute to a girlfriend or unrequited love of one of the character's creators. Smallville producers put their own spin on it with Chloe Sullivan - the only main character created for the series - who has the double L embedded in her last name.
*Oscar Nomination: Annette O'Toole, who plays Clark's mum, Martha Kent, was nominated for an Academy award in 2004ad for co-writing the song "A Kiss at the End of the Rainbow" from the film "A Mighty Wind." O'Toole wrote the song with her husband, Michael McKean, who guest-starred on Smallville as a tabloid journalist (and future Daily Planet editor) Perry White.
*Richard Donner Connection: Director of four Superman movies back in the 1970s and 1980s. "The first Superman movie was hugely influential for us," says Gough, who, with producing partner Miles Millar, worked with Donner on 1998ad's Lethal Weapon 4. Donner "was always trying to ground the character," Gough reveals. "He wanted Clark Kent and Superman to feel real, like they could exist in the world."
*Terence Stamp: British actor who provides the voice of Jor-El, Clark's biological father. Stamp's connection to Superman mythology runs deep: He played General Zod (see Zod in this Trivia) in the first two Superman movies.
*Uncle Fester: Pete's nickname for the bald Lex Luthor.
*Virgil Swann: Reclusive billionaire who taught Clark about the fate of planet Krypton. Swann was played by the ultimate Superman, the late Christopher Reeve.
*X-Ray Vision: Clark's ability to see through anything - except lead.
Google shows 263 hits on "No Tights, No Flights" (which is the version I always heard) and only 49 for "No Tights, No Flight". Among the 263 is http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue308/interview.html in which Alfred Gough is quoted as using the plural version. Can anyone document evidence for the single version? -- Keeves 20:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
The show had two doctors in which their last names were taken from the comics: Dr. Hamilton and Dr. Teng. However, the comics was Emil Hamilton, rather than Stephen Hamilton. I'm not too sure abou the comics Dr. Teng. Should these be added in the comic guest stars, even though it's not really the same character?-- CasimirAngel 20:05, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree that the dispute needs to be mentioned, and the overview section seems like the most logical location for it. However, the contention between the two parties does not have any bearing on which character Smallville is based on. If the creators say Superman, then it is Superman. After this has been stated, then we can go on to mention the legal conflict. Wisdom89 06:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
If there are three competing, serious, claims about what the series is based on, then, yes, you should say "Smallville is either based on Clark Kent, Superman, or Superboy". It's not Wikipedia's job to state that one of those claims is true and the others are not. You cannot say that WB should be considered a definitive source due to them owning the rights; first of all, you don't actually know they own the rights (as the rights are part of what is being disputed), and second, we don't always automatically believe the word of the rights owner. For instance, in Baby Ruth we report the company's claim that the candy bar was named after Grover Cleveland's daughter, but we don't treat that as a fact, and there isn't even a lawsuit involved. People can lie or be mistaken about their own properties. Ken Arromdee 01:57, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
"The creators have the right to say what it is based on, THEY CREATED IT."
Again, THIS ISN'T TRUE. There is no Wikipedia policy which says that the creators' word must be accepted over someone else's. I've already given examples where we don't do that at all.
"You'd have dozens of shows that way just because someone decided to sue."
Really? Name some. This sort of thing is pretty rare, at least if we're not talking about obviously frivolous lawsuits. This isn't just some guy off the street claiming WB ripped him off.
"Why are we suddenly required to just have one statement? Why not mention contraversy?"
I tried to do that. Bignole would only be satisfied if the article claimed as a fact that the series was based on Superman and described the controversy later. It shouldn't be claiming this as fact in the first place since it isn't established as fact. Ken Arromdee 16:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I've been asked to give a third opinion on this dispute. Quite frankly, there's a very simple solution to this - NPOV. Ideally, it should be worded on the form "Group X claims that Smallville is based on Superman because... [cite source showing that they do], while group Y claims that it is based on Superboy because... [cite source showing that they do].", and so on, until all the points of view have been covered. Both of you have shown extensive knowledge of at least one side of the debate; put it into the article instead of slinging it back and forth on the talk page! Make it clear that there is a dispute, and furthermore, make it clear what that dispute is, and who support each side. It may be advantageous to take the entire paragraph out of the overview, and expand it into a section in it's own right about the roots and inspirations of the show. -- Scott Wilson 18:13, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
An important fact in this argument. Early Superman comics game minimal information about the childhood of Clark Kent. It was in Superboy comics that it was first established that Clark Kent grew up in a small town called Smallville.-- Drvanthorp 23:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
This is a dispute about whether to state that Smallville is "based on the character Superman", or to state that there are two competing claims as to what character Smallville is based on, one being Superman and another being Superboy. 22:29, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
http://www.newsarama.com/general/smallville.html
http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6323787.html
http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,18747,00.html?fdnew
http://www.sfx.co.uk/news/smallville_hit_with_super_suit
"You keep claiming that there is a dispute about Smallville being based on Superboy/Superman. There is no such legal dispute. They have not claimed that, nor has a lawsuit been filed."
As far as I can tell, you keep saying this not because there isn't a lawsuit, since there certainly is, but because the lawsuit doesn't use the exact words "based on". Claiming that Smallville is derived from Superboy, claiming that Smallville is about Superboy, or claiming that Smallville infringes the copyright of Superboy are all other ways of saying that Smallville is based on Superboy. The use of the words "based on" is irrelevant. Ken Arromdee 04:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I think it would be useful to have a list of all guest characters that identifies who knows Clark' secret.
This is a ridiculous argument. Superboy is the same character as Superman. No version of the original Superboy (I don't include the recent cloned version) has ever claimed that Superboy and Superman are different fictional entities. Superboy is the young version of Superman. Perhaps if he ever ages further, he will be Supergeezer. That will not mean that he is a different character. Clark Kent is the same fictional entity as both Superman and Superboy. Clark Kent is the adopted name of the fictional entity Kal El. The show Smallville is based upon this one, single character. This character was originally created by Siegel and the rights are owned by DC. If there is a court ruling that the Siegels own the rights to Superboy, then that should be construed to mean they own the rights to portrayals of this character as a young man. Since it's the same character, it is correct to say that Smallville is based on Superman, and it is also incorrect to say that Smallville is NOT based on Superboy. Applejuicefool 15:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
The problem that I see with the Siegel's case is this; Superboy was created in the Silver Age comics to add a new dimension in Kal-El. This was not the original childhood of Superman. Also, in most modern comics Kal-El did not spend his teen years as Superboy but rather just Clark Kent. Also, any interpretation of a comic book can illude to him being Superboy as a child or not and not have to give specific reference to Siegal's or pay added royalties on top the standard fee. Since Smallville is just another telling of the story, they should be able to interpret Clark's teen years any way that they wish. Manofthespoon 21:42, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
"Would both sides accept that Smallville is based on the DC Comics character Clark Kent?"
In this context, there isn't any such thing as "the character" Clark Kent, there are two of them. I'd accept that Smallville is based on *a* character Clark Kent, but that seems like very awkward wording.
"Superboy was based on Superman."
You'd think so, but this isn't true. Superboy is a separate character and being based on Superboy does not mean being based on Superman.
"The creator gets to say what it is based on"
NO! This is not true! The creator *doesn't* get to say what it's based on. Certainly the creator may be *a* source, but the creator isn't the definitive source. The fact that DC claims the series is based on Superman does *not* mean we must accept that as fact. In this situation the creator's statement is being directly challenged as untrue in a situation where the creator has obvious motive to make the specific claim. We can't, therefore, accept the creator's word as factual. The creator's word is one side of a disputed issue.
"The lawsuit, which has not been filed, is to pertain to who owns Smallville the town, not Smallville the show."
[2] "The ruling therefore brings up the question of who owns the post-November 2004 episodes of Smallville."
Furthermore, the lawsuit has indeed been filed. (see above) "Still to be resolved is the question of whether Smallville—now in its fifth season—is actually infringing on the Superboy copyright. No trial date has been set in the suit, which was filed in 2004"
At any rate, I didn't say it was about who owns the show, I said it's about what the show is based on. The remaining part of the lawsuit is indeed about who the show is based on: "Enough facts are presented, where this court, contrary to defendants' request, could find that the main character in Smallville is in fact Superboy". [3] "I believe it's impossible to honestly trace the history of Smallville without accounting for its derivation from Superboy" [4] Ken Arromdee 05:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
I move to have this article follow the guideline of Arrested Development. This article is a Featured Article. What you will notice is that there is no individual season or episode pages. Each season is summed up in the article, all guest stars are listed, all recurring cast is listed, so forth and so on. If you look at other featured TV shows, you will see a similar pattern. I feel that most of us editors wish to have the best possible Smallville that we can, and I move to have this page done in that manner. What that will mean is the Season pages, and the newly created List of Smallville episodes will be deleted. Seeing as they are all technically unencyclopedic, a simple link in a "Further Reading" section would suffice in listing the episodes and other trivial matters. Bignole 03:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
All editors, please see discussion here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Smallville episodes Bignole 18:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Bignole, would you object to mediation over the character basis problem? Ken Arromdee 15:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Totally redundant, in my opinion, considering it partially exists here already. Request merge. (|-- UlTiMuS 09:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Bold text
Clearly a lot of this discussion is causing this page to balloon substantially and some of the older topics on it that have been resolved or otherwise addressed in such a manner that their originators feel they are "finished" clearly could be archived to cut down on the space they are consuming. 75.2.10.17 08:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)