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Slavery among Native Americans in the United States article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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I propose merging Native American slave ownership into Slavery among Native Americans in the United States. Having two separate articles can lead to WP:CFORK, and decreases the visibility of both articles. I think a merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems. -- Brinerat ( talk) 13:11, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
It appears as though one or more of the authors of this article have attempted to create a distinction here that Native Americans did not buy, sell, and trade slaves as property and that the system of 'chattel' slavery was invented or otherwise introduced by arriving Europeans. Several sources have been offered to support that, wherein the idea is never even suggested or is outright contradicted. So it would appear that this is an original idea created by an author in search of a source. To begin with what the sources actually say:
(Indian Slavery In Colonial Times, Lauber) pg 26-27 "The slaves possessed by a givern Indian tribe were oftener obtained through barter with other tribes. This intertribal traffic, though probably not common, was evidently far-reaching." pg 32 "The Menominee did not usually engage in these distant wars, but they, and probably other tribes, had Pawnee slaves whom they purchased of the Ottawa, Sauk and others who had captured them" pg 37 "The existence of barter or trade among the different tribes [...] as a means of obtaining slaves has been already noted. Hence it follows that slaves, along with wampum, furs, etc., served as a medkium of exchange in trade. Furthermore, they served as gifts or objects of barter whereby capives belonging to the possessor's tribe might be obtained, and by which an unfriendly tribe of individual might be placated."
(Indian Slavery in Colonial America, Gallay) pg 8 "Some Native American societies were slaving societies - where pursuit of captives was central to the culture and economy"
(Indians of North America) pg 332 "Slaves were obtained by taking prisoners in raids, but, once slave status was established, the slave could be bought or sold, either from one society to another or from one freeman to another within the same society. The owner had the power of life and death over the slave" ... "Slaves were allowed to marry each other in most localities, but their children usually remained slaves, thus showing that slavery was hereditary."
So while we can talk about the change of scale or culture that came with the international slave trade, any suggestion that these things were unknown to the native American is wrong, and raises questions as to why that narrative is being suggested. Additionally I think we should use caution in suggesting too much of a distinction between slaves and prisoners of war, because as the authors point out, all slaves are prisoners. The only real difference is the fine line between product of war and by-product of war. 24.251.107.39 ( talk) 18:12, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Where does Alaska have an eastern coast? Doesn't Canada border on its East? 2600:1700:F7E0:D870:8EA:4F51:1AEB:7624 ( talk) 16:54, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Slavery among Native Americans in the United States article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I propose merging Native American slave ownership into Slavery among Native Americans in the United States. Having two separate articles can lead to WP:CFORK, and decreases the visibility of both articles. I think a merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems. -- Brinerat ( talk) 13:11, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
It appears as though one or more of the authors of this article have attempted to create a distinction here that Native Americans did not buy, sell, and trade slaves as property and that the system of 'chattel' slavery was invented or otherwise introduced by arriving Europeans. Several sources have been offered to support that, wherein the idea is never even suggested or is outright contradicted. So it would appear that this is an original idea created by an author in search of a source. To begin with what the sources actually say:
(Indian Slavery In Colonial Times, Lauber) pg 26-27 "The slaves possessed by a givern Indian tribe were oftener obtained through barter with other tribes. This intertribal traffic, though probably not common, was evidently far-reaching." pg 32 "The Menominee did not usually engage in these distant wars, but they, and probably other tribes, had Pawnee slaves whom they purchased of the Ottawa, Sauk and others who had captured them" pg 37 "The existence of barter or trade among the different tribes [...] as a means of obtaining slaves has been already noted. Hence it follows that slaves, along with wampum, furs, etc., served as a medkium of exchange in trade. Furthermore, they served as gifts or objects of barter whereby capives belonging to the possessor's tribe might be obtained, and by which an unfriendly tribe of individual might be placated."
(Indian Slavery in Colonial America, Gallay) pg 8 "Some Native American societies were slaving societies - where pursuit of captives was central to the culture and economy"
(Indians of North America) pg 332 "Slaves were obtained by taking prisoners in raids, but, once slave status was established, the slave could be bought or sold, either from one society to another or from one freeman to another within the same society. The owner had the power of life and death over the slave" ... "Slaves were allowed to marry each other in most localities, but their children usually remained slaves, thus showing that slavery was hereditary."
So while we can talk about the change of scale or culture that came with the international slave trade, any suggestion that these things were unknown to the native American is wrong, and raises questions as to why that narrative is being suggested. Additionally I think we should use caution in suggesting too much of a distinction between slaves and prisoners of war, because as the authors point out, all slaves are prisoners. The only real difference is the fine line between product of war and by-product of war. 24.251.107.39 ( talk) 18:12, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Where does Alaska have an eastern coast? Doesn't Canada border on its East? 2600:1700:F7E0:D870:8EA:4F51:1AEB:7624 ( talk) 16:54, 17 March 2023 (UTC)