This article was nominated for deletion on 30 October 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was redirect to Amateur astronomy. |
This page was proposed for deletion by an editor in the past. |
To-do list for Skygazing:
|
The bulk of this article should be translated from fr:Observation du ciel, which is a featured article. However, the name of the article is dubious. Possible suggestions are at Wikipedia:Translation into English#French. But more likely, this is a merge job -- Thewayforward 23:34, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
...as suggested on 9 June 2006 (UTC) by Halfblue. (Initial list added by Izogi 04:02, 10 June 2006 (UTC))
I'll post my translation work as I write it here, so that if I get interrupted someone else can make use of the work. Sbwoodside 22:30, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Intro:
Astronomy owes its existence to people who have, throughout history, through passion or curiosity raised their eyes to the sky.
The practise of skygazing, approached with a practical bent, quickly reveals the magnificence of celestial objects. Simple naked-eye observation of the sky can reveal the basics of astronomy and a better understanding of the cosmos in which we live, and can be extended, by the more enthusiastic observers, by the use of more powerful instruments which permit the study of deep space.
To being with, it is a good idea to know what can be seen with the available instruments, if considering a purchase, what precautions are necessary in observing certain phenomena, and knowing the optimal conditions for night-time observation. Sbwoodside 22:30, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Pleae note the existence of the article Amateur astronomy. They should link each other, or perhaps even merged. -- Pjacobi 15:20, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
Why is this article called "skygazing" instead of "stargazing?" As an amateur astronomer I've never really heard the word skygazing before as everyone stargazes. I'm not the only one on this: in a Google search, for example, stargazing gets around 2 million hits but skygazing gets around 10,000.
My view is that sky visual phenomena is all cool, but atmospheric optic effects are what a lot of people understand by skygazing. Less popular than stargazing maybe, but still a distinctly different activity. In the digital age of increased mobility we have storm-chasers, for instance, no astronomical content there, and my specific interest is in sun/moon effects on airborne ice crytals, often at high altitude, but not really astronomic as far as i know. The cross-over takes place in the very high altitudes, where the solar energy sometimes creates light called aurora. Now thats typically referred to as astronomical. I have recently split my astro websites into two, one astronomic and one atmospheric. Skygazing clearly includes ALL sky visual features, astronomical AND clouds, optic effects, aircraft, flocks of birds, etc. Astronomy generally refers to ONLY objects/effects in space, or caused by illuminators from space, ie high altitude and further distant. I vote for an individual article, skygazing (atmospheric) but maybe stating up front its boundaries of interest, and skygazing (astronomy) to be directed to astronomy. moza 02:33, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Would you suggest merging the "nocturnal" part of this article with Amateur Astronomy, and leaving the "diurnal" bit to skygazing/Amateur Atmospherics? Perhaps then the two entries would be less redundant. Tamarkot 04:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
The section on telescopes is full of inaccuracies (that may have come from translation?). Most of those entries are also redundant since each type of telescope has its own Wikipedia entry. And the description of observable objects seems to imply only that type of instrument can observe it, which is incorrect. I guess those things can be fixed if and when this article is merged with amateur astronomy. Halfblue 23:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
If I knew how to post a "To Do List" I would (I'll get the hang of this Wiki stuff some day;^)). I was thinking about other fields similar to this and I though "How do they handle Trainspotter? Trying to even look that up took me to ---> Railfan where you will find the opening paragraph:
That is where this article sits right now... it really should be a redirect to Amateur astronomy. What this article needs for a start is an opening paragraph that explains what Skygazing is... and if that that paragraph also describes Amateur astronomy then there is the heart of the problem. I have been an Amateur astronomer for 30 years or more and I have never come across a separate field called "Skygazing". That does not mean I may not be woefully ignorant of the term. So I would give you "To Do" #1.... an opening paragraph that describes Skygazing as a separate distinct well known field (or one that should be well known) in the English-speaking world. Halfblue 21:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
"Light playing on water drops, dust or ice crystals in the atmosphere produces a host of visual spectacles - rainbows, halos, glories, coronas and many more. Some can be seen almost every day or so, some are once in a lifetime sights. Find out where to see them and how they form. Then seek and enjoy them outdoors." I'm not suggesting that we copy that, but that we use that for inspiration. I think we need to be very careful that we dont throw out the baby with the bath water; a bit of how-to is inevitable in some ways, that doesnt have to make the article a manual though. the term skygazing is both a verb describing the action and a noun describing the process and person. Encyclopedic answers to standard queries such as what is it? who does it? why do they do it? why is it done? how is it done? what do they see? ie what are the benefits? what are the hazards? ( I recently had 'eye arc-burn' from too much cloud irisation watching), where do i go for more info? how can i identify what I see? how rare is the effect? what different sorts of skygazing is there? history, why is it useful, cultural, different uses. If the translated French article can be moved to a more appropriate title, Observation of the sky, (Astronomy is observation of the universe, mostly space) then a new article could easily emerge. perhaps go back in the history to before i added stuff and messed the translation up. thoughts? moza 15:19, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
In one of the very first sections in this article I read the following line:
"Sunspots and solar eclipses can be viewed during the day using a telescope or binoculars to avoid permanent blindness."
I think this needs to be rewritten before someone hurts themselves.
David
In the section about the moon there is a picture of an increasing moon that is inverted so that it looks like a decreasing moon. The note describes it as a decreasing moon which is incorrect but fixing it would probably be confusing to some people. I would recommend finding a different picture.
Although the editors on this talk page are unlikely to engage in anything less than polite discussion, this Yellow Smiley will nonetheless serve as a reminder for any future editors who may occasionally be tempted to lapse. Courtesy of the Random Smiley Project.
I have added a ((howto)) tag to this article. At this point this article should probably:
Halfblue 00:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I understand already that most editors want the best for every article, and the rules can be endlessley quoted to try and achieve that. Common sense says that the term skygazing by its very content applies to the sky 24/7. The sky doesn't go away during the day. I dont see the point in moving the skygazing content away, and I see a strong error in pointing the term to astronomy. I am an astronomer, and I am a skygazer. but while skygazing is similiar to stargazing, (with the naked eye) stargazing is different to cloud/halo/CZA/CHA/parhelia/glory and all the other kinds of skygazing that take place mostly during the day. And night cloud-gazing is not astronomy either. So while it might serve some purpose to be cut up and moved, I still see that its better served having a life of its own. It brings into question the greater editing process, my understanding of editing is additive as well as subtractive, I couldnt have not noticed the consensus seeems to be heavily biased toward subtractive and distillation, even total destruction. I wonder why I am the one singled out to fix this article, when there are so many oh so dedicated editors that could fix it quickly. Oh thats right, it takes hard work to locate and write a good article, and even harder work int his case making the images to illustrate it; so much easier to denigrate it, cut it up and cast it to the winds. The wierd thing is that the 17,000 results will continue to grow, the meaning of the term will continue to become clearer as its used more, and wikipedia will then catch up when all the smoke is cleared. I think that looking back to the first rule of wikipedia is instructive, if its bad for the encyclopedia then ignore the rule. I think it would be much better to behave with a generous and energetic spirit, than repeated and mundane educations about the rules that seems to be the modus operandi to permeate this place. The thing is I would jump int here and work hard at building what I would consider to be a good article, to find that within a short time its cut apart for some rule, and my energy was wasted. I perceive enormous waste and damage here behind the scenes, and thats too high a price to pay for the external success, in my opinion. Wikipedia works as a composite of all the rules, not just a few singled out to support the action being justified. Look, you can do whatever you like if youre prepared to have it undone, the method to obtain relative stability is to get agreement from a range of sources, people, editors, etc. even then its not safe, as another group of editors may not agree, and they can form a a whole new consensus, thats at odds with the original. This is especialy true when we cross cultural and national boundaries, and wiki is fully global of course. But then what would I know.
check it out Paul Moss 04:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
" [3] and see "
Archaeoastronomy: Skywatching in the Native American Southwest by Ronald McCoy (Paperback - Mar 1994)" Paul Moss 05:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I propose a move to "Stargazing" per earlier arguments and (1) "stargazing" is the more common term in English, (2) the whole content of this article is devoted to observation of the celestial realm, not meteorology and (3) the much-discussed merge with amateur astronomy has never reached consensus.-- Pharos 05:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Image:Telescope Newton Celestron.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 08:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Telescope Schmidt-Cassegrain Celestron.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 08:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
This page has been transwiki imported to Wikiversity at v:Skygazing where it will be developed into a learning project. -- mikeu talk 20:39, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 30 October 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was redirect to Amateur astronomy. |
This page was proposed for deletion by an editor in the past. |
To-do list for Skygazing:
|
The bulk of this article should be translated from fr:Observation du ciel, which is a featured article. However, the name of the article is dubious. Possible suggestions are at Wikipedia:Translation into English#French. But more likely, this is a merge job -- Thewayforward 23:34, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
...as suggested on 9 June 2006 (UTC) by Halfblue. (Initial list added by Izogi 04:02, 10 June 2006 (UTC))
I'll post my translation work as I write it here, so that if I get interrupted someone else can make use of the work. Sbwoodside 22:30, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Intro:
Astronomy owes its existence to people who have, throughout history, through passion or curiosity raised their eyes to the sky.
The practise of skygazing, approached with a practical bent, quickly reveals the magnificence of celestial objects. Simple naked-eye observation of the sky can reveal the basics of astronomy and a better understanding of the cosmos in which we live, and can be extended, by the more enthusiastic observers, by the use of more powerful instruments which permit the study of deep space.
To being with, it is a good idea to know what can be seen with the available instruments, if considering a purchase, what precautions are necessary in observing certain phenomena, and knowing the optimal conditions for night-time observation. Sbwoodside 22:30, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Pleae note the existence of the article Amateur astronomy. They should link each other, or perhaps even merged. -- Pjacobi 15:20, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
Why is this article called "skygazing" instead of "stargazing?" As an amateur astronomer I've never really heard the word skygazing before as everyone stargazes. I'm not the only one on this: in a Google search, for example, stargazing gets around 2 million hits but skygazing gets around 10,000.
My view is that sky visual phenomena is all cool, but atmospheric optic effects are what a lot of people understand by skygazing. Less popular than stargazing maybe, but still a distinctly different activity. In the digital age of increased mobility we have storm-chasers, for instance, no astronomical content there, and my specific interest is in sun/moon effects on airborne ice crytals, often at high altitude, but not really astronomic as far as i know. The cross-over takes place in the very high altitudes, where the solar energy sometimes creates light called aurora. Now thats typically referred to as astronomical. I have recently split my astro websites into two, one astronomic and one atmospheric. Skygazing clearly includes ALL sky visual features, astronomical AND clouds, optic effects, aircraft, flocks of birds, etc. Astronomy generally refers to ONLY objects/effects in space, or caused by illuminators from space, ie high altitude and further distant. I vote for an individual article, skygazing (atmospheric) but maybe stating up front its boundaries of interest, and skygazing (astronomy) to be directed to astronomy. moza 02:33, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Would you suggest merging the "nocturnal" part of this article with Amateur Astronomy, and leaving the "diurnal" bit to skygazing/Amateur Atmospherics? Perhaps then the two entries would be less redundant. Tamarkot 04:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
The section on telescopes is full of inaccuracies (that may have come from translation?). Most of those entries are also redundant since each type of telescope has its own Wikipedia entry. And the description of observable objects seems to imply only that type of instrument can observe it, which is incorrect. I guess those things can be fixed if and when this article is merged with amateur astronomy. Halfblue 23:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
If I knew how to post a "To Do List" I would (I'll get the hang of this Wiki stuff some day;^)). I was thinking about other fields similar to this and I though "How do they handle Trainspotter? Trying to even look that up took me to ---> Railfan where you will find the opening paragraph:
That is where this article sits right now... it really should be a redirect to Amateur astronomy. What this article needs for a start is an opening paragraph that explains what Skygazing is... and if that that paragraph also describes Amateur astronomy then there is the heart of the problem. I have been an Amateur astronomer for 30 years or more and I have never come across a separate field called "Skygazing". That does not mean I may not be woefully ignorant of the term. So I would give you "To Do" #1.... an opening paragraph that describes Skygazing as a separate distinct well known field (or one that should be well known) in the English-speaking world. Halfblue 21:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
"Light playing on water drops, dust or ice crystals in the atmosphere produces a host of visual spectacles - rainbows, halos, glories, coronas and many more. Some can be seen almost every day or so, some are once in a lifetime sights. Find out where to see them and how they form. Then seek and enjoy them outdoors." I'm not suggesting that we copy that, but that we use that for inspiration. I think we need to be very careful that we dont throw out the baby with the bath water; a bit of how-to is inevitable in some ways, that doesnt have to make the article a manual though. the term skygazing is both a verb describing the action and a noun describing the process and person. Encyclopedic answers to standard queries such as what is it? who does it? why do they do it? why is it done? how is it done? what do they see? ie what are the benefits? what are the hazards? ( I recently had 'eye arc-burn' from too much cloud irisation watching), where do i go for more info? how can i identify what I see? how rare is the effect? what different sorts of skygazing is there? history, why is it useful, cultural, different uses. If the translated French article can be moved to a more appropriate title, Observation of the sky, (Astronomy is observation of the universe, mostly space) then a new article could easily emerge. perhaps go back in the history to before i added stuff and messed the translation up. thoughts? moza 15:19, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
In one of the very first sections in this article I read the following line:
"Sunspots and solar eclipses can be viewed during the day using a telescope or binoculars to avoid permanent blindness."
I think this needs to be rewritten before someone hurts themselves.
David
In the section about the moon there is a picture of an increasing moon that is inverted so that it looks like a decreasing moon. The note describes it as a decreasing moon which is incorrect but fixing it would probably be confusing to some people. I would recommend finding a different picture.
Although the editors on this talk page are unlikely to engage in anything less than polite discussion, this Yellow Smiley will nonetheless serve as a reminder for any future editors who may occasionally be tempted to lapse. Courtesy of the Random Smiley Project.
I have added a ((howto)) tag to this article. At this point this article should probably:
Halfblue 00:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I understand already that most editors want the best for every article, and the rules can be endlessley quoted to try and achieve that. Common sense says that the term skygazing by its very content applies to the sky 24/7. The sky doesn't go away during the day. I dont see the point in moving the skygazing content away, and I see a strong error in pointing the term to astronomy. I am an astronomer, and I am a skygazer. but while skygazing is similiar to stargazing, (with the naked eye) stargazing is different to cloud/halo/CZA/CHA/parhelia/glory and all the other kinds of skygazing that take place mostly during the day. And night cloud-gazing is not astronomy either. So while it might serve some purpose to be cut up and moved, I still see that its better served having a life of its own. It brings into question the greater editing process, my understanding of editing is additive as well as subtractive, I couldnt have not noticed the consensus seeems to be heavily biased toward subtractive and distillation, even total destruction. I wonder why I am the one singled out to fix this article, when there are so many oh so dedicated editors that could fix it quickly. Oh thats right, it takes hard work to locate and write a good article, and even harder work int his case making the images to illustrate it; so much easier to denigrate it, cut it up and cast it to the winds. The wierd thing is that the 17,000 results will continue to grow, the meaning of the term will continue to become clearer as its used more, and wikipedia will then catch up when all the smoke is cleared. I think that looking back to the first rule of wikipedia is instructive, if its bad for the encyclopedia then ignore the rule. I think it would be much better to behave with a generous and energetic spirit, than repeated and mundane educations about the rules that seems to be the modus operandi to permeate this place. The thing is I would jump int here and work hard at building what I would consider to be a good article, to find that within a short time its cut apart for some rule, and my energy was wasted. I perceive enormous waste and damage here behind the scenes, and thats too high a price to pay for the external success, in my opinion. Wikipedia works as a composite of all the rules, not just a few singled out to support the action being justified. Look, you can do whatever you like if youre prepared to have it undone, the method to obtain relative stability is to get agreement from a range of sources, people, editors, etc. even then its not safe, as another group of editors may not agree, and they can form a a whole new consensus, thats at odds with the original. This is especialy true when we cross cultural and national boundaries, and wiki is fully global of course. But then what would I know.
check it out Paul Moss 04:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
" [3] and see "
Archaeoastronomy: Skywatching in the Native American Southwest by Ronald McCoy (Paperback - Mar 1994)" Paul Moss 05:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I propose a move to "Stargazing" per earlier arguments and (1) "stargazing" is the more common term in English, (2) the whole content of this article is devoted to observation of the celestial realm, not meteorology and (3) the much-discussed merge with amateur astronomy has never reached consensus.-- Pharos 05:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Image:Telescope Newton Celestron.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 08:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Telescope Schmidt-Cassegrain Celestron.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 08:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
This page has been transwiki imported to Wikiversity at v:Skygazing where it will be developed into a learning project. -- mikeu talk 20:39, 4 November 2008 (UTC)