![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
"The principal security hole of this service is an inability to verify credit cards safely." This (approximately) was the second of the two sentences which comprised the first revision. It was written by an anonymous user. I can't find any evidence of this. Perhaps the anon had an axe to grind? Pending evidence, I've deleted it. Tualha ( Talk) 15:21, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following edit:
Please feel free to reinsert it after it's been toned down from being an anti-eBay rant to being something close to what you'd read in an encyclopedia. kmccoy (talk) 01:30, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Ebay has previously stated that it is just a venue. After acquiring paypal it has become more than a venue by listing in auctions whether the buyer accepts paypal (no other payment options listed) and allowing buyers to sort by paypal. Next, sellers with Paypal accounts that have issues such as chargebacks or stolen cards from buyers result in their ebay accounts being closed as well. In August 2005, it required that sellers who take paypal not refuse credit card payments, which result in fees. [1] Beginning in January 2006, ebay now prohibits any online payment system except Paypal, as stated here. Ebay only gives Bidpay.com as its alternative, a company that has already gone out of business before the policy. This singularly requires that online payments through ebay must use ebay's system, paypal. Questions of illegality and antitrust have been raised over this new rule. Ebay specifically prohibits E-gold, a legitimate competitor to Paypal.
Based on ebay's policy, here, a seller can have their account banned for accepting payment through Moneybookers.
If something must be included I would revise it to something like the following...
Beginning January 2006, ebay's Safe Payments Policy prohibits the use of Moneybookers for auction payments [2]. Based on ebay's policy a seller can have their account banned for accepting payment through Moneybookers.
Even in this abbreviated form I still do not think this is relevant information, especially considering that the policy makes no mention of moneybookers and is far from exclusive in its list of allowable payment options. It is simply not NPOV.
If the only reason that moneybookers is not allowed is that ebay owns Paypal then there is no reason for this here. If it was prohibited because of questions about its security or reliability then I could see it getting a mention. Jasongetsdown 18:45, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
The smaller version is more precise, but it needs to explain why. Ebay of course never says they're prohibiting everything except paypal because they own paypal. They claim it's for safety reasons and what not. So Jasongetsdown, Ebay says it's security or reliability. But most people think it's because ebay owns paypal.
DyslexicEditor
08:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
As a result of ebay's purchase of Paypal, beginning xxxx 2005 ebay's Safe Payments Policy prohibits the use of Moneybookers and some similar services for auction payments [3]. Based on ebay's policy a seller can have their account banned for accepting payment through Moneybookers.
September 2006. The links above take you to the ebay policy "Accepted Payments" At the bottom of that policy is a box which says "Some examples" Clicking on this gives a range of payment examples which are and are not permitted. Moneybookers is in the permitted section.
Ok, someone added this...
However, according to ebay Canada's country manager Jordan Banks Moneybookers is still an acceptable form of payment.
...And now I'm confused. I've asked eBay support for the official line. They should be getting back to me in a bit. Jasongetsdown 14:44, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Ebay's told me no many times.
DyslexicEditor
01:07, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
as stated at http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html -- (James McNally) (talkpage) 02:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
"Moneybookers claim to have over 2.4 million users and processed over €2,000 million in transactions" - is this per year, per day? -- Cryout 07:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Their turnover and member numbers are since inception. -- trademe 14:23, 23 January 2007 (NZDT)
anyone can explain this fee, by using an example? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nkour ( talk • contribs) 23:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC).
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Please remove Affiliate spamming, thanks -- Hu12 ( talk) 20:09, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Moneybookers is a payment service as well as a money transfer service - can someone edit the type definition in the box at the top of the page to read 'Online Payment and Money Transfer Service'? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobyjwalsh ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
The parent company of Moneybookers is now 'Investcorp Technology Partners' - this needs to be amended as is it currently reads Gatcombe which is a factual error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobyjwalsh ( talk • contribs) 11:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Could an established user please add to the "Major drawbacks as reported by users include:" section that Moneybookers refuse to refund money stolen from an account by criminals. We recently lost £450.07 in 4 Send Money transactions to [email protected] and [email protected] on 24 and 25 April 2008. This cleared the account. Maybe they hacked the login, maybe it was an inside job, moneybookers aren't saying. All they said was "Unfortunately the hacked ammount cannot be refunded - we are really sorry for the inconvenience caused." - Moneybookers333 ( talk) 17:07, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I would like to question the objectivity of this article. It is my concern that the author might be Skrill itself. Please add citations and make sure that this article meet the wikipedia standards. -- 109.70.49.30 ( talk) 23:39, 11 May 2012 (UTC) Sebastian
-- 173.255.160.184 ( talk) 22:49, 15 May 2012 (UTC) Sebastian
re: this edit: Most sites have TOS, and violating them can lead to suspension or termination of the account. For example, Section 4 of the PayPal User Agreement says something similar.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 10:40, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
ianmacm, kashmiri, it's a financial issue I'm trying to explain. You mentioned PayPal User Agreement, which is saying "...your access to the Service may be suspended or terminated". Don't you see the difference? Termination of access to a service vs. closure of an account? Simple example: you go to your bank which suspects you in money laundry. Instead of a normal practice to freeze your account, they just close it. If you don't have account, there is no place to keep your money -> you loose your money because they only suspect you in a laundry. Doesn't it seems ridiculous? Another part of PayPal User Agreement: "You will cooperate fully with PayPal Wells Fargo, MasterCard or VISA to investigate..." Is this still "similar" to TOS of Moneybookers? Obviously not. That's was my message: termination of contract is absolutely normal practice, but if somebody is deciding on their own discretion (and without any involvement of interested party) of whether they can own somebody's money, that's outstanding fact in financial operations, isn't it?
Wikiuserleo 16:34, 14 September 2012 (UTC) — Wikiuserleo ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Not sure what you mean by "broadly similar". I'm specifying and very concrete parts of these two documents, no generics. Because I was not aware of those facts and most importantly, their interpretation, I lost my money, and it turned to be lawful! Before creation of an account with Moneybookers, I consulted Wikipedia as one of sources that could tell me about that organization. Now I have additional knowledge that Moneybookers may keep somebody's money because they'll decide so on their own discretion and according to their TOS, as it turned out. Doesn't it seem to be a knowledge that other people using Wikipedia should have? Do you want to put censorship at this point? Otherwise please suggest how can the page can be improved to account this ridiculous, as I see, financial terms of usage, which has little to do with usual practice of *safe* financial operations in today's world.
Wikiuserleo 17:22, 14 September 2012 (UTC) — Wikiuserleo ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
It seems that you persistently don't understand the key issue. Even taking the two points from your last comment: 1) the url you provided mentions about a *procedure of resolution* of a case, while I'm saying that Moneybookers can just say (in simple words for better understanding, but according to the legal document they issued) "we decided so, and we don't want to hear any objection". 2)The edits are not about a specific case, but about a valuable note of existing documents of the company, which is not obvious on their own - that's why I insist on added value of the comments. Wikiuserleo 17:53, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
The lead says " Also, US-based customers cannot receive money from non-US accounts, and non-US customers cannot upload funds using cards or accounts located in the United States." But should it say something like "US based customers cannot send money to, nor receive money from, non-US accounts"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.127.103.208 ( talk) 20:05, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi, I work at Skrill (Moneybookers) and would like to change this page wholesale, as we are rebranding as Skrill. I want to make some factual updates I cannot create a Skrill page as it is already taken as a link to the Moneybookers page. Could you help me find out how I could fix this? 154.32.157.63 ( talk) 12:55, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
I find it interesting that this page has been locked for editing, yet requests source information. The following is an article from the Baltimore Sun, a credible news outlet.
Car Bargains Used in Wire Payment Fraud
If someone overseas is offering to sell you a popular car for less than its Kelley Blue Book value, don't get rolled over, the Better Business Bureau of Greater Maryland warned.
Advertising such cars through online classifieds and trade magazines, scam artists pose as sellers from outside the country. To give the buyer a false sense of security, the seller claims the transaction will be completed through Moneybookers.com, which is a United Kingdom-based service that is similar to PayPal.com.
Follow-up e-mail messages from the seller are drafted to appear to be from Moneybookers. Buyers are then asked to send a fully insured and refundable 30 percent down payment on the car and they're instructed to wire the money to the seller in London, contrary to Moneybookers' policies.
The BBB warned that this scam has developed into a multilevel strategy in which consumers are sent e-mail modeled after the Moneybookers format. Links to online chats with scammers posing as Moneybookers reps are included in the e-mail to lure unsuspecting buyers.
The scam has been so successful that documented reports to the BBB have shown that some eager buyers lost thousands - and then sent an additional 30 percent to the scam artists.
When it comes to sending money via wire services, take Western Union's advice: The Western Union Money Transfer Service is not intended to send money to someone you don't know. Americanpooje ( talk) 22:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
They are pure scammers who made their online "service" to look like a legal one, but in fact this is just a shell with nothing inside. Once you upload a small amount to your account balance from previously verified credit card and then try to withdraw it back either to visa card or bank account, you get an email like this:
Dear %USERNAME%, We would like to inform you that your account is temporarily suspended for payments following a routine security audit. In order to lift the restrictions imposed on your account, please comply with the following requests: 1. For what purpose are you using your Skrill account? 2. Provide the following documents: - A full colour copy of a valid, official identification document; such as your international passport (double page), national identity card or drivers licence (front and back). This is required in order for us to verify your identity. - A copy of a paper utility bill (Gas Bill/Electricity Bill) or bank statement issued in the last three months clearly displaying your name and address that has been received at the registered postal address detailed on your Skrill account. This is required in order for us to verify your address. The required documents/information should be sent via email to [email protected]. Please accept our apologies for any possible inconvenience, however Skrill must adhere to strict security standards which are there to protect your account privacy. Please be aware that your account will remain frozen until you comply with this request. We thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter. Kind regards, Skrill Security
After that you can try to contact them as much as you like and you will NEVER receive a single response. Moreover, you will not even see that your account has been blocked when you are logged it, you may even think that you have wrongly speficied your birth date when creating an account because you will get "transfer failed" message every time after specifying your birth date when trying to withrdaw your money back. It even seems that they have a support ticket system because the email they send has ticket number attahced, but even this is just a decoration with nothing behind because you will never get any reply, and you cannot access your previously sent requests via their "help" system in any way! Aaleksanyants ( talk) 07:31, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
"The principal security hole of this service is an inability to verify credit cards safely." This (approximately) was the second of the two sentences which comprised the first revision. It was written by an anonymous user. I can't find any evidence of this. Perhaps the anon had an axe to grind? Pending evidence, I've deleted it. Tualha ( Talk) 15:21, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following edit:
Please feel free to reinsert it after it's been toned down from being an anti-eBay rant to being something close to what you'd read in an encyclopedia. kmccoy (talk) 01:30, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Ebay has previously stated that it is just a venue. After acquiring paypal it has become more than a venue by listing in auctions whether the buyer accepts paypal (no other payment options listed) and allowing buyers to sort by paypal. Next, sellers with Paypal accounts that have issues such as chargebacks or stolen cards from buyers result in their ebay accounts being closed as well. In August 2005, it required that sellers who take paypal not refuse credit card payments, which result in fees. [1] Beginning in January 2006, ebay now prohibits any online payment system except Paypal, as stated here. Ebay only gives Bidpay.com as its alternative, a company that has already gone out of business before the policy. This singularly requires that online payments through ebay must use ebay's system, paypal. Questions of illegality and antitrust have been raised over this new rule. Ebay specifically prohibits E-gold, a legitimate competitor to Paypal.
Based on ebay's policy, here, a seller can have their account banned for accepting payment through Moneybookers.
If something must be included I would revise it to something like the following...
Beginning January 2006, ebay's Safe Payments Policy prohibits the use of Moneybookers for auction payments [2]. Based on ebay's policy a seller can have their account banned for accepting payment through Moneybookers.
Even in this abbreviated form I still do not think this is relevant information, especially considering that the policy makes no mention of moneybookers and is far from exclusive in its list of allowable payment options. It is simply not NPOV.
If the only reason that moneybookers is not allowed is that ebay owns Paypal then there is no reason for this here. If it was prohibited because of questions about its security or reliability then I could see it getting a mention. Jasongetsdown 18:45, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
The smaller version is more precise, but it needs to explain why. Ebay of course never says they're prohibiting everything except paypal because they own paypal. They claim it's for safety reasons and what not. So Jasongetsdown, Ebay says it's security or reliability. But most people think it's because ebay owns paypal.
DyslexicEditor
08:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
As a result of ebay's purchase of Paypal, beginning xxxx 2005 ebay's Safe Payments Policy prohibits the use of Moneybookers and some similar services for auction payments [3]. Based on ebay's policy a seller can have their account banned for accepting payment through Moneybookers.
September 2006. The links above take you to the ebay policy "Accepted Payments" At the bottom of that policy is a box which says "Some examples" Clicking on this gives a range of payment examples which are and are not permitted. Moneybookers is in the permitted section.
Ok, someone added this...
However, according to ebay Canada's country manager Jordan Banks Moneybookers is still an acceptable form of payment.
...And now I'm confused. I've asked eBay support for the official line. They should be getting back to me in a bit. Jasongetsdown 14:44, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Ebay's told me no many times.
DyslexicEditor
01:07, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
as stated at http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html -- (James McNally) (talkpage) 02:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
"Moneybookers claim to have over 2.4 million users and processed over €2,000 million in transactions" - is this per year, per day? -- Cryout 07:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Their turnover and member numbers are since inception. -- trademe 14:23, 23 January 2007 (NZDT)
anyone can explain this fee, by using an example? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nkour ( talk • contribs) 23:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC).
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Please remove Affiliate spamming, thanks -- Hu12 ( talk) 20:09, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Moneybookers is a payment service as well as a money transfer service - can someone edit the type definition in the box at the top of the page to read 'Online Payment and Money Transfer Service'? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobyjwalsh ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
The parent company of Moneybookers is now 'Investcorp Technology Partners' - this needs to be amended as is it currently reads Gatcombe which is a factual error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobyjwalsh ( talk • contribs) 11:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Could an established user please add to the "Major drawbacks as reported by users include:" section that Moneybookers refuse to refund money stolen from an account by criminals. We recently lost £450.07 in 4 Send Money transactions to [email protected] and [email protected] on 24 and 25 April 2008. This cleared the account. Maybe they hacked the login, maybe it was an inside job, moneybookers aren't saying. All they said was "Unfortunately the hacked ammount cannot be refunded - we are really sorry for the inconvenience caused." - Moneybookers333 ( talk) 17:07, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I would like to question the objectivity of this article. It is my concern that the author might be Skrill itself. Please add citations and make sure that this article meet the wikipedia standards. -- 109.70.49.30 ( talk) 23:39, 11 May 2012 (UTC) Sebastian
-- 173.255.160.184 ( talk) 22:49, 15 May 2012 (UTC) Sebastian
re: this edit: Most sites have TOS, and violating them can lead to suspension or termination of the account. For example, Section 4 of the PayPal User Agreement says something similar.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 10:40, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
ianmacm, kashmiri, it's a financial issue I'm trying to explain. You mentioned PayPal User Agreement, which is saying "...your access to the Service may be suspended or terminated". Don't you see the difference? Termination of access to a service vs. closure of an account? Simple example: you go to your bank which suspects you in money laundry. Instead of a normal practice to freeze your account, they just close it. If you don't have account, there is no place to keep your money -> you loose your money because they only suspect you in a laundry. Doesn't it seems ridiculous? Another part of PayPal User Agreement: "You will cooperate fully with PayPal Wells Fargo, MasterCard or VISA to investigate..." Is this still "similar" to TOS of Moneybookers? Obviously not. That's was my message: termination of contract is absolutely normal practice, but if somebody is deciding on their own discretion (and without any involvement of interested party) of whether they can own somebody's money, that's outstanding fact in financial operations, isn't it?
Wikiuserleo 16:34, 14 September 2012 (UTC) — Wikiuserleo ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Not sure what you mean by "broadly similar". I'm specifying and very concrete parts of these two documents, no generics. Because I was not aware of those facts and most importantly, their interpretation, I lost my money, and it turned to be lawful! Before creation of an account with Moneybookers, I consulted Wikipedia as one of sources that could tell me about that organization. Now I have additional knowledge that Moneybookers may keep somebody's money because they'll decide so on their own discretion and according to their TOS, as it turned out. Doesn't it seem to be a knowledge that other people using Wikipedia should have? Do you want to put censorship at this point? Otherwise please suggest how can the page can be improved to account this ridiculous, as I see, financial terms of usage, which has little to do with usual practice of *safe* financial operations in today's world.
Wikiuserleo 17:22, 14 September 2012 (UTC) — Wikiuserleo ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
It seems that you persistently don't understand the key issue. Even taking the two points from your last comment: 1) the url you provided mentions about a *procedure of resolution* of a case, while I'm saying that Moneybookers can just say (in simple words for better understanding, but according to the legal document they issued) "we decided so, and we don't want to hear any objection". 2)The edits are not about a specific case, but about a valuable note of existing documents of the company, which is not obvious on their own - that's why I insist on added value of the comments. Wikiuserleo 17:53, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
The lead says " Also, US-based customers cannot receive money from non-US accounts, and non-US customers cannot upload funds using cards or accounts located in the United States." But should it say something like "US based customers cannot send money to, nor receive money from, non-US accounts"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.127.103.208 ( talk) 20:05, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi, I work at Skrill (Moneybookers) and would like to change this page wholesale, as we are rebranding as Skrill. I want to make some factual updates I cannot create a Skrill page as it is already taken as a link to the Moneybookers page. Could you help me find out how I could fix this? 154.32.157.63 ( talk) 12:55, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
I find it interesting that this page has been locked for editing, yet requests source information. The following is an article from the Baltimore Sun, a credible news outlet.
Car Bargains Used in Wire Payment Fraud
If someone overseas is offering to sell you a popular car for less than its Kelley Blue Book value, don't get rolled over, the Better Business Bureau of Greater Maryland warned.
Advertising such cars through online classifieds and trade magazines, scam artists pose as sellers from outside the country. To give the buyer a false sense of security, the seller claims the transaction will be completed through Moneybookers.com, which is a United Kingdom-based service that is similar to PayPal.com.
Follow-up e-mail messages from the seller are drafted to appear to be from Moneybookers. Buyers are then asked to send a fully insured and refundable 30 percent down payment on the car and they're instructed to wire the money to the seller in London, contrary to Moneybookers' policies.
The BBB warned that this scam has developed into a multilevel strategy in which consumers are sent e-mail modeled after the Moneybookers format. Links to online chats with scammers posing as Moneybookers reps are included in the e-mail to lure unsuspecting buyers.
The scam has been so successful that documented reports to the BBB have shown that some eager buyers lost thousands - and then sent an additional 30 percent to the scam artists.
When it comes to sending money via wire services, take Western Union's advice: The Western Union Money Transfer Service is not intended to send money to someone you don't know. Americanpooje ( talk) 22:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
They are pure scammers who made their online "service" to look like a legal one, but in fact this is just a shell with nothing inside. Once you upload a small amount to your account balance from previously verified credit card and then try to withdraw it back either to visa card or bank account, you get an email like this:
Dear %USERNAME%, We would like to inform you that your account is temporarily suspended for payments following a routine security audit. In order to lift the restrictions imposed on your account, please comply with the following requests: 1. For what purpose are you using your Skrill account? 2. Provide the following documents: - A full colour copy of a valid, official identification document; such as your international passport (double page), national identity card or drivers licence (front and back). This is required in order for us to verify your identity. - A copy of a paper utility bill (Gas Bill/Electricity Bill) or bank statement issued in the last three months clearly displaying your name and address that has been received at the registered postal address detailed on your Skrill account. This is required in order for us to verify your address. The required documents/information should be sent via email to [email protected]. Please accept our apologies for any possible inconvenience, however Skrill must adhere to strict security standards which are there to protect your account privacy. Please be aware that your account will remain frozen until you comply with this request. We thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter. Kind regards, Skrill Security
After that you can try to contact them as much as you like and you will NEVER receive a single response. Moreover, you will not even see that your account has been blocked when you are logged it, you may even think that you have wrongly speficied your birth date when creating an account because you will get "transfer failed" message every time after specifying your birth date when trying to withrdaw your money back. It even seems that they have a support ticket system because the email they send has ticket number attahced, but even this is just a decoration with nothing behind because you will never get any reply, and you cannot access your previously sent requests via their "help" system in any way! Aaleksanyants ( talk) 07:31, 24 April 2014 (UTC)