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Does klister derive from the Norwegian word klister? In that case, it is understandably that it is sticky, since it literally means "glue" (or "paste"). I think it's very likely that this is the case, but for the moment, I'm trying to find hard proof.
There's no need to insert links to ski wax manufacturers' websites. Lowrydr310
I edited the kick wax preparation section, but now I realized it's already discussed early in the article.
Why is my link to the WaxFax article continually deleted? There is a lot of valuable information in there. I'm not spamming the Wikipedia text with references to my wax. Although the article contains references to our company, it is more an informative article discussing the most advanced ski wax in existence. When describing the science and advancements in ski wax, its almost impossible not to mention our technology and achievements in the field. -Hertel Wax
-while I wasn't the one deleting your links, I think its entirely plausible to talk about ski wax technology without mentioning your company. Ultimately wax is a pretty simple animal, a hydrocarbon chain with temperature specific saturation (anyone that has taken a semester of organic chemistry can tell you that). Yes you put surfactants in there, but so does everyone else, there is nothing surprising or revolutionary contained in your pdf that demands it be a matter of public record. I'm not going to remove your links (I'll leave that to people more accustomed to dealing with such matters), but I will defend their decision to do so.-- FlamingoChavez ( talk) 01:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I've removed a great deal of instructional content from this article. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not an instructional manual, it's an encyclopaedia. Content that gives step by step guides is not appropriate here, there are other websites specifically for this. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 23:20, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
I would have greatly appreciated the instructional content and find deleting it to be incredibly counter productive. Some of the best uses of technology are when it's used for objectives not originally considered by the designer. Encyclopedia or not, why remove good information? 173.32.165.193 ( talk) 03:46, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Under Hot Waxing:
versus
Can anyone clean this up and add references? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plhofmei ( talk • contribs) 02:35, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I read this, and I have real problems with its assumptions. Talbot, the author, separates kick and glide waxes; my experience for thirty years (OMG!) is that cross-country ski wax does both depending whether or not you are pressing down on it. Talbot also claims that the camber of the ski prevents the middle of the ski from touching the snow when weight is evenly distributed; this easily proves he has never cross-country skied!
To clarify, I use the wax rated for the temperature range for the entire ski, then add the next higher temperature-rated wax to the underfoot and, optionally, the ends; this latter is the "kicker." If snow is fresh and cold, kicker is probably not needed. Older icy snow and/or higher temperatures require higher temperature-rated waxes and often a very liberal smearing of soft, sticky kicker wax.
The theory, as it has been explained to me, is that cross country skiing depends on water for grip, that water has a higher coefficient of friction on wax than snow does. Pressing down on the snow, or compressing it, creates the thin layer of water for grip that Talbot claims allows slide.
Either way, the above waxing strategy has worked for me for longer than I can remember! I will further attempt to clarify the phenomena, and if Talbot proves to be wrong as I think he is, I will remove the link.-- John Bessa ( talk) 01:09, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
Kick wax is used to create friction to allow classic cross country skiers to push off the snow with one foot and glide with the other. Kick wax is designed have a high static coefficient of friction and a low kinetic coefficient of friction. The soft, tacky wax embeds the show crystals in its base through the force of the skiers downward kick. When the kick is finished, the skier transfers his weight to the other leg to make the next quick. Without any downward force, the forward motion of the ski lightly wipes the wax clean and ready to glide.
— Tyler Freeman [1]
The difference between a kick and glide wax is temperature and, to a lesser degree, other snow conditions. A glide wax at warmer temperatures is a kick wax at lower temperatures. A wax that is a kick wax at a lower temperature is useless at a higher temperature as it will "ball up" the snow under the skis, and has to be scraped off.
-- John Bessa ( talk) 21:33, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Kickwax contains both grip and glide components. This is true for current and older kickwaxes (and klisters). The method of coating the entire ski base from tip to tail with kickwax is a method that was used with wooden skis to improve their glide. For competitive skiers prior to the early 1970's the glide zones of wooden skis were coated with a colder, harder kickwax to increase glide. With the introduction of synthetic (plastic) ski bases grip application was reduced to only the kick zone because the plastic bases had better glide properties than kickwax. The camber of the kick zone is to raise the kickwax out of the snow to further reduce drag -- this comment is applicable to wooden skis too. A properly selected ski, modern or wooden, will close the camber of a ski when a complete weight shift happens thereby physically engaging the kickwax.
Kickwax does NOT engage grip with liquid water. Glide is engaged with a very thin film of liquid water. The structure of solid water (snow) presses into the kickwax creating a solid physical interaction. When snow crystals cannot penetrate into the kickwax enough then the physical interaction will break free under load. When snow crystals penetrate too much then the crystals cannot be released from the kickwax leading to "clumping" or sometimes icing. The correctly selected kickwax to match the conditions will have enough crystal penetration depth for grip, yet be shallow enough to easily be freed during the glide phase. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barking ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
I have commented out the following passage, pending discussion:
I find two things highly improbable: 1) that any X-C ski resort would have one million visitors, much less each one having that many and 2) that a significant fraction of them would have PFOA waxes on their skis. — User:HopsonRoad 15:02, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
@ HopsonRoad: Some comments:
Regards --— Erik Jr. 12:26, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Does klister derive from the Norwegian word klister? In that case, it is understandably that it is sticky, since it literally means "glue" (or "paste"). I think it's very likely that this is the case, but for the moment, I'm trying to find hard proof.
There's no need to insert links to ski wax manufacturers' websites. Lowrydr310
I edited the kick wax preparation section, but now I realized it's already discussed early in the article.
Why is my link to the WaxFax article continually deleted? There is a lot of valuable information in there. I'm not spamming the Wikipedia text with references to my wax. Although the article contains references to our company, it is more an informative article discussing the most advanced ski wax in existence. When describing the science and advancements in ski wax, its almost impossible not to mention our technology and achievements in the field. -Hertel Wax
-while I wasn't the one deleting your links, I think its entirely plausible to talk about ski wax technology without mentioning your company. Ultimately wax is a pretty simple animal, a hydrocarbon chain with temperature specific saturation (anyone that has taken a semester of organic chemistry can tell you that). Yes you put surfactants in there, but so does everyone else, there is nothing surprising or revolutionary contained in your pdf that demands it be a matter of public record. I'm not going to remove your links (I'll leave that to people more accustomed to dealing with such matters), but I will defend their decision to do so.-- FlamingoChavez ( talk) 01:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I've removed a great deal of instructional content from this article. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not an instructional manual, it's an encyclopaedia. Content that gives step by step guides is not appropriate here, there are other websites specifically for this. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 23:20, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
I would have greatly appreciated the instructional content and find deleting it to be incredibly counter productive. Some of the best uses of technology are when it's used for objectives not originally considered by the designer. Encyclopedia or not, why remove good information? 173.32.165.193 ( talk) 03:46, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Under Hot Waxing:
versus
Can anyone clean this up and add references? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plhofmei ( talk • contribs) 02:35, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I read this, and I have real problems with its assumptions. Talbot, the author, separates kick and glide waxes; my experience for thirty years (OMG!) is that cross-country ski wax does both depending whether or not you are pressing down on it. Talbot also claims that the camber of the ski prevents the middle of the ski from touching the snow when weight is evenly distributed; this easily proves he has never cross-country skied!
To clarify, I use the wax rated for the temperature range for the entire ski, then add the next higher temperature-rated wax to the underfoot and, optionally, the ends; this latter is the "kicker." If snow is fresh and cold, kicker is probably not needed. Older icy snow and/or higher temperatures require higher temperature-rated waxes and often a very liberal smearing of soft, sticky kicker wax.
The theory, as it has been explained to me, is that cross country skiing depends on water for grip, that water has a higher coefficient of friction on wax than snow does. Pressing down on the snow, or compressing it, creates the thin layer of water for grip that Talbot claims allows slide.
Either way, the above waxing strategy has worked for me for longer than I can remember! I will further attempt to clarify the phenomena, and if Talbot proves to be wrong as I think he is, I will remove the link.-- John Bessa ( talk) 01:09, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
Kick wax is used to create friction to allow classic cross country skiers to push off the snow with one foot and glide with the other. Kick wax is designed have a high static coefficient of friction and a low kinetic coefficient of friction. The soft, tacky wax embeds the show crystals in its base through the force of the skiers downward kick. When the kick is finished, the skier transfers his weight to the other leg to make the next quick. Without any downward force, the forward motion of the ski lightly wipes the wax clean and ready to glide.
— Tyler Freeman [1]
The difference between a kick and glide wax is temperature and, to a lesser degree, other snow conditions. A glide wax at warmer temperatures is a kick wax at lower temperatures. A wax that is a kick wax at a lower temperature is useless at a higher temperature as it will "ball up" the snow under the skis, and has to be scraped off.
-- John Bessa ( talk) 21:33, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Kickwax contains both grip and glide components. This is true for current and older kickwaxes (and klisters). The method of coating the entire ski base from tip to tail with kickwax is a method that was used with wooden skis to improve their glide. For competitive skiers prior to the early 1970's the glide zones of wooden skis were coated with a colder, harder kickwax to increase glide. With the introduction of synthetic (plastic) ski bases grip application was reduced to only the kick zone because the plastic bases had better glide properties than kickwax. The camber of the kick zone is to raise the kickwax out of the snow to further reduce drag -- this comment is applicable to wooden skis too. A properly selected ski, modern or wooden, will close the camber of a ski when a complete weight shift happens thereby physically engaging the kickwax.
Kickwax does NOT engage grip with liquid water. Glide is engaged with a very thin film of liquid water. The structure of solid water (snow) presses into the kickwax creating a solid physical interaction. When snow crystals cannot penetrate into the kickwax enough then the physical interaction will break free under load. When snow crystals penetrate too much then the crystals cannot be released from the kickwax leading to "clumping" or sometimes icing. The correctly selected kickwax to match the conditions will have enough crystal penetration depth for grip, yet be shallow enough to easily be freed during the glide phase. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barking ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
I have commented out the following passage, pending discussion:
I find two things highly improbable: 1) that any X-C ski resort would have one million visitors, much less each one having that many and 2) that a significant fraction of them would have PFOA waxes on their skis. — User:HopsonRoad 15:02, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
@ HopsonRoad: Some comments:
Regards --— Erik Jr. 12:26, 30 January 2016 (UTC)