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I note that someone removed Wilson's comments about submarines "underhand, unfair and damned un-English" as being unreferenced. His comments about submariners being hanged as pirates has also been removed. Whilst I'm certain this was good faith, both items were already referenced in this earlier version via an internal link to Royal Navy Submarine Service#The Jolly Roger and the Submarine Service. If the references in these links are wrong, then that's a different matter.
Wilson was an incredibly brave man as well as arguably the leading torpedo expert of his day, fully aware of the submarine threat to Britain's command of the seas.
I intend to restore his comments, but include sufficient context to enable the reader to understand the reason and background for his comments though I'm happy for someone else to do this. I hope this will not be contentious but comments welcome.
JRPG (
talk)
12:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed the "underhand, unfair and damned un-English" as unreferenced. Captain Peter Hore, in The Habit of Victory (p. 302) states categorically that there's no evidence of him having ever said it. I didn't remove the reference to hanging (that was Dormskirk), but the context it was provided with was utterly inadequate. -- Simon Harley ( Talk | Library). 19:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I know wiki editors are supposed to be painfully polite but let's be honest - this reeks of bad faith editing. There is clearly a strong interest by some parties to cover up Wilson's opposition to submarines. The man is single-handedly responsible for the "jolly roger" tradition - HOW on earth can this be debated in good faith? IMO this article and its talk page are an excellent example of why this website has become so unreliable. By creating a hierarchy of editors who can strike down edits by anon users and obsessing over proper etiquite (rather than robust academic debate) you have [intentionally] created an environment where bad faith editors can easily push their POV while hiding behind often painfully transparent (and meaningless) rhetoric. Given the direction the site has been going it is clear that this behavior is being encouraged for political purposes and NOT academic accuracy.
Now ban me again for speaking the truth you all know; I care not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.183.1 ( talk) 20:46, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
The Montagu story in Booth is by his own admission based on the autobiographical account of the salvage officer's son, who was a little boy at the time. Per WP:VERIFIABILITY I'd say there's a "conflict of interest" in using such a source as the sole basis for trashing Wilson's handling of the Montagu salvage. For the record, the Admiralty had noted in Wilson's service records, "T.L. satisfaction expressed at manner in which operations for salvage of 'Montagu' were carried out." (ADM 196/86. f. 30.) Unless someone wants to cry "Conspiracy!" then there is a clear discrepancy here - one can't lose a battleship then be commended for the manner in which one did it - and to err on the side of a patently dubious source is madness. — Simon Harley ( Talk | Library). 19:43, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
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I've updated this - his biographer, who served alongside him, seemed to think that being named after Tug Wilson, the boxer, was more likely. The dates certainly make sense - the boxer was briefly world-famous in 1882, just the right time for Arthur Wilson to pick up the nickname after his VC.
The story about him offering a tug to a ship failing to come into harbour is fairly widely quoted, but there are a few other versions of it floating around (eg threatening to tow a sluggish cruiser out of dock), and the earliest versions of it seem to be quoted in the early 1900s. Would be interesting to know when the "Tug" nickname is first recorded for him. Andrew Gray ( talk) 13:10, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved by strong consensus. Andrewa ( talk) 07:23, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
Sir Arthur Wilson, 3rd Baronet → Arthur Wilson, 3rd Baronet – 'Sir' is a prefix and it's more common to not include in article titles; see Winston Churchill and Isaac Newton. Engineerchange ( talk) 03:38, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | This article was created or added to during the Victoria Cross Reference Migration. It may contain material that was used with permission from victoriacross.net. |
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I note that someone removed Wilson's comments about submarines "underhand, unfair and damned un-English" as being unreferenced. His comments about submariners being hanged as pirates has also been removed. Whilst I'm certain this was good faith, both items were already referenced in this earlier version via an internal link to Royal Navy Submarine Service#The Jolly Roger and the Submarine Service. If the references in these links are wrong, then that's a different matter.
Wilson was an incredibly brave man as well as arguably the leading torpedo expert of his day, fully aware of the submarine threat to Britain's command of the seas.
I intend to restore his comments, but include sufficient context to enable the reader to understand the reason and background for his comments though I'm happy for someone else to do this. I hope this will not be contentious but comments welcome.
JRPG (
talk)
12:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed the "underhand, unfair and damned un-English" as unreferenced. Captain Peter Hore, in The Habit of Victory (p. 302) states categorically that there's no evidence of him having ever said it. I didn't remove the reference to hanging (that was Dormskirk), but the context it was provided with was utterly inadequate. -- Simon Harley ( Talk | Library). 19:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I know wiki editors are supposed to be painfully polite but let's be honest - this reeks of bad faith editing. There is clearly a strong interest by some parties to cover up Wilson's opposition to submarines. The man is single-handedly responsible for the "jolly roger" tradition - HOW on earth can this be debated in good faith? IMO this article and its talk page are an excellent example of why this website has become so unreliable. By creating a hierarchy of editors who can strike down edits by anon users and obsessing over proper etiquite (rather than robust academic debate) you have [intentionally] created an environment where bad faith editors can easily push their POV while hiding behind often painfully transparent (and meaningless) rhetoric. Given the direction the site has been going it is clear that this behavior is being encouraged for political purposes and NOT academic accuracy.
Now ban me again for speaking the truth you all know; I care not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.183.1 ( talk) 20:46, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
The Montagu story in Booth is by his own admission based on the autobiographical account of the salvage officer's son, who was a little boy at the time. Per WP:VERIFIABILITY I'd say there's a "conflict of interest" in using such a source as the sole basis for trashing Wilson's handling of the Montagu salvage. For the record, the Admiralty had noted in Wilson's service records, "T.L. satisfaction expressed at manner in which operations for salvage of 'Montagu' were carried out." (ADM 196/86. f. 30.) Unless someone wants to cry "Conspiracy!" then there is a clear discrepancy here - one can't lose a battleship then be commended for the manner in which one did it - and to err on the side of a patently dubious source is madness. — Simon Harley ( Talk | Library). 19:43, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Arthur Wilson (Royal Navy officer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:55, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
I've updated this - his biographer, who served alongside him, seemed to think that being named after Tug Wilson, the boxer, was more likely. The dates certainly make sense - the boxer was briefly world-famous in 1882, just the right time for Arthur Wilson to pick up the nickname after his VC.
The story about him offering a tug to a ship failing to come into harbour is fairly widely quoted, but there are a few other versions of it floating around (eg threatening to tow a sluggish cruiser out of dock), and the earliest versions of it seem to be quoted in the early 1900s. Would be interesting to know when the "Tug" nickname is first recorded for him. Andrew Gray ( talk) 13:10, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved by strong consensus. Andrewa ( talk) 07:23, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
Sir Arthur Wilson, 3rd Baronet → Arthur Wilson, 3rd Baronet – 'Sir' is a prefix and it's more common to not include in article titles; see Winston Churchill and Isaac Newton. Engineerchange ( talk) 03:38, 23 January 2024 (UTC)