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May I suggest that you redirect to a more intuitive article title? StoptheDatabaseState 21:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
From looking at Dictionary of National Biography, it would seem that there has been some mixing of the information of a father and son
There are a number of significant discrepancies that would seem to need to be checked against further references. -- billinghurst ( talk) 14:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
Good catch. Now fixed: the son is the actual Alexander Home, 1st Lord Home, article doesn't exist as I write this. Charles Matthews ( talk) 10:30, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
@ Billinghurst and Charles Matthews: We have now got Sir Alexander Home of that ilk (succeeded 1424) and Alexander Home, 1st Lord Home (died c.1491) as two separate people. This is in line with the Old DNB (as noted above), the New DNB article on the Home family ( [1]) and with the account in Volume IV of Paul's The Scots Peerage (1907), beginning on page 444 with Sir Alexander Home of Home and Dunglass (d. 1424).
However, by 1914 Paul had changed his mind, writing in Vol. IX 106, that:
"Recent investigation shows that previous writers on this pedigree... have been wrong in making the first Lord Home a separate personage from Sir Alexander. The mistake arose from the supposed necessity of finding a husband for Marion, heiress of Landells, and not perceiving that she was really identical with Marion Lauder."
The corrections suggest instead the following for Sir Alexander's family:
This seems to me rather reasonable, disposing of the Marion/Mariota and George, John, and Patrick doublets. And it presumably becomes unavoidable if the Lauder/de Landells connection is established. It also solves the question of who died in 1456, if the original Sir Alexander was still alive in 1461. And the 1451 Hepburn marriage date also fits in very tidily (was this new research between 1907 and 1914?) -- whereas it would surely have to give, if it were Sir Alexander's grandson that Hepburn was marrying.
On the other hand, even if we stick with Sir Alexander and the 1st Lord being two different individuals, there are a couple of issues with the articles that still should be addressed:
As I said, I do suspect the original version of the article may well have got it right, and the reality may well be that there was only one man. But is the 1914 "correction" enough to go against the 2004 ODNB ?
There's also the question of what to do with the three Wikidata items: Alexander Home, 1st Lord Home (Q4719148), Alexander Home, 1st Lord Home (Q18670672) (separate) and Alexander Home, 1st Lord Home (Q76348701) (combined, following ThePeerage and WikiTree; also in line with the Carcroft peerage site [2]).
My preference would be to merge everything back into the one article, leaving it to a footnote that some sources (such as the ODNB) present two distinct individuals. But are there other thoughts as to what may be the right path? Jheald ( talk) 18:19, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
He thus represents Sir Alexander as a single person in the paper, who had had "the extremely valuable control of the temporal assets of the cell which he had enjoyed since 14 May 1442 as bailie of Coldingham, an office for which he had been prepared to fight his uncle David Home of Wedderburn at great length in the early 1440s" (p.13), and in connection with which he had "triumphantly" fought to protect the possessions of Coldingham at consistory court in St Andrews in January 1442.(p. 7) Sir Alexander was written to by the Prior of Durham on 1 December 1461 for his help to try to avert Patrick Home's proposed take-over of Coldingham. (p.7). By late 1464 he had "dramatically" intervened at Rome in the interest of his own son John. (pp. 13-14). The rest of the article discusses how the three-way contest then unfolded, including the intervention of James III in 1472 to claim the long-term future of Coldingham for himself -- something which, when renewed in 1484-8 in continued opposition to the Homes, "was largely responsible for the revolt which led to his murder after 'Sauchieburn'." (p.21). Jheald ( talk) 11:21, 30 July 2020 (UTC)"Although he founded the economic and political fortunes of his family after the death of his father at Verneuil in 1424, Alexander Home, first Lord Home from 1473, still awaits a biographer: see, however, Scots Peerage, iv, 444-51, and the important correction ibid., ix, 106-7." (p.13, n.4).
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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May I suggest that you redirect to a more intuitive article title? StoptheDatabaseState 21:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
From looking at Dictionary of National Biography, it would seem that there has been some mixing of the information of a father and son
There are a number of significant discrepancies that would seem to need to be checked against further references. -- billinghurst ( talk) 14:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
Good catch. Now fixed: the son is the actual Alexander Home, 1st Lord Home, article doesn't exist as I write this. Charles Matthews ( talk) 10:30, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
@ Billinghurst and Charles Matthews: We have now got Sir Alexander Home of that ilk (succeeded 1424) and Alexander Home, 1st Lord Home (died c.1491) as two separate people. This is in line with the Old DNB (as noted above), the New DNB article on the Home family ( [1]) and with the account in Volume IV of Paul's The Scots Peerage (1907), beginning on page 444 with Sir Alexander Home of Home and Dunglass (d. 1424).
However, by 1914 Paul had changed his mind, writing in Vol. IX 106, that:
"Recent investigation shows that previous writers on this pedigree... have been wrong in making the first Lord Home a separate personage from Sir Alexander. The mistake arose from the supposed necessity of finding a husband for Marion, heiress of Landells, and not perceiving that she was really identical with Marion Lauder."
The corrections suggest instead the following for Sir Alexander's family:
This seems to me rather reasonable, disposing of the Marion/Mariota and George, John, and Patrick doublets. And it presumably becomes unavoidable if the Lauder/de Landells connection is established. It also solves the question of who died in 1456, if the original Sir Alexander was still alive in 1461. And the 1451 Hepburn marriage date also fits in very tidily (was this new research between 1907 and 1914?) -- whereas it would surely have to give, if it were Sir Alexander's grandson that Hepburn was marrying.
On the other hand, even if we stick with Sir Alexander and the 1st Lord being two different individuals, there are a couple of issues with the articles that still should be addressed:
As I said, I do suspect the original version of the article may well have got it right, and the reality may well be that there was only one man. But is the 1914 "correction" enough to go against the 2004 ODNB ?
There's also the question of what to do with the three Wikidata items: Alexander Home, 1st Lord Home (Q4719148), Alexander Home, 1st Lord Home (Q18670672) (separate) and Alexander Home, 1st Lord Home (Q76348701) (combined, following ThePeerage and WikiTree; also in line with the Carcroft peerage site [2]).
My preference would be to merge everything back into the one article, leaving it to a footnote that some sources (such as the ODNB) present two distinct individuals. But are there other thoughts as to what may be the right path? Jheald ( talk) 18:19, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
He thus represents Sir Alexander as a single person in the paper, who had had "the extremely valuable control of the temporal assets of the cell which he had enjoyed since 14 May 1442 as bailie of Coldingham, an office for which he had been prepared to fight his uncle David Home of Wedderburn at great length in the early 1440s" (p.13), and in connection with which he had "triumphantly" fought to protect the possessions of Coldingham at consistory court in St Andrews in January 1442.(p. 7) Sir Alexander was written to by the Prior of Durham on 1 December 1461 for his help to try to avert Patrick Home's proposed take-over of Coldingham. (p.7). By late 1464 he had "dramatically" intervened at Rome in the interest of his own son John. (pp. 13-14). The rest of the article discusses how the three-way contest then unfolded, including the intervention of James III in 1472 to claim the long-term future of Coldingham for himself -- something which, when renewed in 1484-8 in continued opposition to the Homes, "was largely responsible for the revolt which led to his murder after 'Sauchieburn'." (p.21). Jheald ( talk) 11:21, 30 July 2020 (UTC)"Although he founded the economic and political fortunes of his family after the death of his father at Verneuil in 1424, Alexander Home, first Lord Home from 1473, still awaits a biographer: see, however, Scots Peerage, iv, 444-51, and the important correction ibid., ix, 106-7." (p.13, n.4).