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This article is poorly written--what the heck are "Sinixt"? Are they Indians, rabbits, tumbleweeds, or what? All the article states is that they were "inhabitants" who were declared "extinct". Very confusingly written. Matt Yeager ♫ ( Talk?) 23:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
The Sinixt or "Lakes" were a Salishan-speaking people allied with the Ktunaxa who were declared extinct in Canada after the smallpox and otherwise depopulated, but a few survivors remain in the United States. Their territory was the Kootenay and Arrow Lakes of BC (Nelson-Castlegar-Nakusp area). Skookum1 07:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Sinixt were not, to my knowledge "Allied with the Ktunaxa". The Ktunaxa arrived in the Arrow Lakes region of BC from the plains, and were permitted to stay by the Sinixt, who already occupied the land
According to this film: 'The Sinix't , Bringing Home the Bones' the Sinix't were not, nor never were 'extinct' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nm0_EX97rU
More info on their website here
http://sinixtnation.org/content/sinixt-nation-launch-massive-land-claim (not that the film and the website are related, they're not)
Veryscarymary (
talk)
14:57, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for expanding this; I wrote the stub but knew little more about the Sinixt than what's here and there in BC history and historical journalism articles. A few questions, though:
hey skookum1 Yah, I saw the article was flagged for improvement so I added a few things. It obvioulsy will need to be cleaned up and citations added, but I am a bit too busy at the moment. Will get to it though.
I am not familiar with your Teit reference at the moment. Part of the confusion was that Boas/Teit classified the Sinixt within the larger "Okanagan", but then subdivided the Okanagan proper to sometimes include a "Lake" division, as opposed to the "Lakes" which is always a reference to the sinixt. My suspicion is that he was referring to the former, although I am definately interested.
I will also add a language stub. I recall reading it was similar to colville, but more 'drawn out'.
Teit (and others) describe the late pre-contact war with the Ktunaxa, in which the Sinixt were eventually able to stop the aggressors by a final large-scale raid on the Southern Ktunaxa.
There is, however, quite a lot of evidence that there was significant regional conflict at some time prior to the smallpox. Many pithouse villages seem to have been abandoned in the 1400s. I suspect that there was major Athabaskan/Salish/Ktunaxa conflict far beyond the basic Nicola/chilcotin enigma. Let's not forget that the Apache/navajo etc. had only just arrived in the Southern plains when the Spanish got there in the 1500s (The Apache were reeking havoc at the time amongst the non-nomadic peoples who were indigenous to the area.). There are differing theories among archeologists about whether it was strictly a plains migration or 'inter-montaine'.
––––
Just changed a couple things. I changed it from 3800 years to "over 4000" years in order to me more accurate with respect to the "Salish Expansion". The evidence suggests the Salish came into the area 4500 years ago or so. Someone asked who they replaced? This is something virtually impossible to answer. After all, when we talk about the Salish expansion, we are including the Flathead, Spokane, Colvile, Okanagan, Shuswap, Thompson, etc. etc. There is an "archeological gap" of a couple hundred years prior to this. The biggest distinction between them and the people they replaced is that the people(s) they replaced were more clearly nomadic. Hence it is quite difficult to say. Both ancestors to the Ktunaxa and Sahaptin are good bets, although the nomadic nature of the times meant that there was probably a lot of changes over time. Regardless, we should not forget that 4500 years is longer than the "Irish" have been in Ireland or the "British" have been in England. Yes, there were Irish and British before, but 4500 is long before the Galic, the Norse, the Norman, the Romans or other populating groups entered those areas and gave them the genetics and languages spoken there today. 4500 years is a long long long long time.
As you can see, I've been making extensive additions based on Lawney Reyes' memoir, and citing them rather specifically. Could someone possibly improve the citation on the rest of the material? - Jmabel | Talk 06:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Even if only as a stub, as with Okanagan language, plus any refs that might google up for it; there's passages from Teit about them, and I've seen recent mainstream journalistic-history articles on them here in BC, though nothing on their language directly. That article would then get the Salishan languages category instead of this one; there are other hierarchies to be had here too, like the indigenous languages of the Plateau category and some others; whatever's on Syilx and Secwepemc, I guess. Anyway, separate language articles also infer that hopefully there's material on the Sinixt language (Sinixt'stn?) somewhere out there to form the stub with; other than that vague refs that it's closely related to Colville and [[[Okanagan language|Syilx'tsn]] (Okaganan) and such is fine; just to establish the stub. The modern Colville language/dialect, which I understand to be a creole of many Salishan languages from the area (and others?), also deserves its own article; again even if only a stub. But I wouldn't know what to call it; unless it has a self-description/name, e.g. Syilx'tsn vs Okanagan language; as the indigenous name is preferable. Skookum1 08:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Just curious, if there's someone from Colville or the ONA who could explain, and maybe amend the article appropriately - because the Sinixt are part of the Colville, and Colville is part of the ONA, does the ONA represent the Sinixt's interests in BC/Canada? Because I know there's some talking going on, even though no movement (I think) to treaty process; but I do know Sinixt rights/claims have been advanced up here, at last in print/web somewhere if not in process. I know there's something to do with archaeological digs with Sinixt involvement, and with Sinixt political implications, and I think some court proceedings as well as local orgs in support of them (nice thing about the West Kootenay as to the broad-mindedness of the neighbours...). I think they may also be somehow connected to Fort Shepherd Provincial Pari (if that links, I'm not sure), or Fort Shepherd anyway, which was established to serve them as customers when the border cut Colville, then the biggest fur trade centre, in the area, off from British territory; it's been restored and I think there's Sinixt involvement somehow, or permissions or something; something in the news up here, within the last five years anyway; don't know where to dig but it's out there.... Skookum1 08:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Alternately, is it just the Okanagan families among the Colville who are allied/in the same tribal council with the Canadian Okanagan, or all the Colville?
ONA do not represent the Sinixt, at least not with the full permission of Autonomous Sinixt Elders. In the U.S., the Sinixt were forcefully amalgamated into the Colville Confederated Tribes. In Canada, they were declared legally extinct for the purposes of the Indian Act in 1956. As such, many of the groups around them attempt to use their lack of status (and the fact that many Sinixt chose membership in neighbouring territories so they could stay in Canada) as a means to co-opt/claim their territory for resources, speak on their behalf or both. The Sinixt were there for the founding of ONA, but Eva Orr, the Sinixt Elder present to represent the Sinixt at that time refused membership, because ONA tried lumping the Sinixt in with the Okanagan Indian Band against their will. Before colonization, the Sinixt were an autonomous group for thousands of years. ONA and Colville Confederated Tribes currently have a Memorandum of Understanding and jointly make decisions in Sinixt Territory in Canada "on behalf" of the Sinixt, even though members (namely Marilyn James) of the elder structure laid out by Eva Orr before she died have repeatedly told both groups they do not speak for the Autonomous Sinixt north of the Canada/U.S. border. As for archy digs, yes there are at least two I am aware of in the Slocan Valley, relating mainly to pithouses that are somewhere around 2,500 years old. They can be identified as Sinixt because the Sinixt bury their dead in a manner quite different from their neighbours. There would be many more digs, but approximately 90% of Sinixt archaeological sites were flooded when the Columbia River Treaty was signed and the dams started going up-Shane 473-cultural anthropologist specializing in Sinixt Culture and Dialect (haven't used my account proper in a while and am having trouble getting back in).
The relocation of Colville had little to do with a specific tribe; if anything it was the relocation of HBC operations to Fort Shepherd much later on that might have, but not Colville; all tribes in the area of Kettle Falls were teh reason why, partly, but mostly it had to do with ease of shipping. As for the lcaim that thet Sinixt played "a major but unheralded role in the fur trade", not sure how this can even be said, as if other native peoples didn't have at least an equivalent role, and all are "heralded" in the annals of the fur trade. And as for having a role in the border dispute, I'll repeat my edit comment - "puh-LEEXE!". In what fashion could these be any kind of reality? They were consulted? They advised London or Washington? Even the HBC in the Northwest didn't have a major role, it was all played out in the capitals. Totally uncitable and confabulous, I removed it. If you've got a reason/cite why it was the case, put it back in. This may be Sinixt-elder lore, but it bears no resemblance to reality as known by anyone else......and for those who hate my guts here, and may have induced or know who induced the emailed threat against me, I've never been given so much reason to stand up to bullying and will watch this article for further confabulations and overblown "facts". I do the same on non-aboriginal articles, i.e. critical editing, and thinking I've singled hte Sinixt out for "Indian-hater" persecution is just more bunk of the same kind that shows up in Sinixt "histories" published of late; I'm not saying editors here have been party to this; but editors here should be aware of the lack of substance of materials from items like the Tyee article and its kidn, and also be aware that threatening someone into silence is a surefire way to get them to raise their voice even louder. I've done huge amounts of work making sure indigenous sensitivities are reflected across BC articles and beyond; to be accused of being an "Indian-hater" because I won't buy into someone's paranoid lies.....well, it's just another paranoid lie, isn't it? Skookum1 ( talk) 17:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi there. I will endeavour to get the cite showing that Fort Colville was created in part to be closer to the Lakes and their territory. I agree that it should remain off the page until it's cited. I recall a specific reference (must`ve been from Simpson or even higher up) that one reason Spokane House was being replaced was to be more central to the productive and "vast" lands of the Lakes. There had even been a satellite "Fort of the Lakes" on Arrow Lake for a while. As for their role in the fur trade, the vast majority of Fort Colville records are unfortunately missing from the HBC archives and lost. The existing records that specify returns by nation show that the Lakes had the highest overall returns. The "major role" includes this fact, especially considering that this made the Lakes the top producing trappers at the most important interior fort in the Columbia District. This era (pre-1830) also coincided with the real on-the-ground "not so cold war" over the whole Columbia, when American settlers had not actually arrived and any American claim to the Territory was rather weaker than the British (not to mention the locals). The earliest records (including US sources) confirm that notwithstanding the Anglo-American Convention of 1818, Spokane/Colville/Sinixt/Flathead/PendOreilles/coeur d'Alene/and Nez Perce all were involved in acting, even violently, to stymie the earliest American overland Mountain Men and independent traders encroaching from the South and East. This is quite apart from any "London and Washington" negotiations, and in my mind can be reasonably characterised as a "major but unheralded role". Put it this way, not one British soldier ever stepped foot in this region during the entire dispute. In my mind, it would be folly to say that the dispute over the Columbia only occurred in Washington and London. I agree, however, that such statement are appropriately left off the page until they're cited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phillips arm ( talk • contribs) 07:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
It was Simpson who ordered, in 1825, the construction of Fort Colville to replace Spokane House as the regional district headquarters. At least part of the reason was because Spokane House was poorly located in terms of trade traffic patterns. Company officials had been trying to relocate Spokane House since the pre-1821 North West Company days. Donald MacKenzie got Fort Nez Perces built in 1818 and tried to have it take over the operations of Spokane House. Apparently traders and trappers so enjoyed Spokane House itself they raised an outcry whenever it was proposed to be moved. It took Simpson to finally make it happen. So one reason for the move to Fort Colville was because Spokane House was simply a strategically poor location for a district headquarters. A location on the Columbia River was much more sensible in terms of trade routes and traffic. Another reason was that Simpson thought farms and ranches around Fort Colville would be very productive. He was right: After a few years Fort Colville was supplying foodstuffs over a huge area, from the Snake River country to Kamloops and New Caledonia, and even provided seed-wheat to Fort Edmonton. Certainly there could be other reasons, like being closer to major fur producing areas.
According to D.W. Meinig, beaver returns for the Fort Colville district were regularly among the largest of the whole Columbia District, excepting New Caledonia and the sometimes the Snake River expeditions. Meinig writes that most of the furs from Fort Colville came from the Flathead and Kootenay countries. But by "Kootenay" he seems to mean the country around Kootenay Post, on the Kootenay River near present-day Libby, Montana. I'm not very knowledge on the indigenous geography on this region, but wouldn't this post be in Kootenai (Ktunaxa) territory rather than Sinixt? But then, Meinig could be wrong, or I could be misunderstanding. I thought I'd post these observations though. Forgive me if I've misunderstood things -- I'm not clear on quite where the "Lakes country" is exactly. Pfly ( talk) 23:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Might be worth adding that the earlier smallpox epidemics are believed to have spread overland from New Spain, via inter-indigenous contact, and did not come overland from the East; and re the last sentence although the next paragraph explores some of that instablity, the drift ot htis sentence has a subtext that this political upheaval is to be blamed on the Indian Wars farther east, resulting in Blackfoot raids and the Ktunaxa push into the Kootenays; the theory is POV in and of itself and while not stated here, it seems implied. There's no proof that the period of instability did not go back a lot farther; the story of Nicola's lineage goes back to at least 1670 and speaks ofwars throughtout the Plateau and adjoining areas. Unless that's to be blamed on butterfly-effects frmo the Indian Wars on the Atlantic Seaboard and the Southeast...again, not written POV-ly here, but implied/hinted and recognizable to those who have heard the other story. Political upheaval doesn't adequately describe slave raids or the Blackfoot presence in the Big Bend and upper Arrow...... Skookum1 ( talk) 05:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chipewyan people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 09:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 23:34, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
Sinixt people → Sinixt – target is redirect to current title; on June 8, 2011 by Kwami with no regard to PRIMARYTOPIC or WP:UNDAB. Skookum1 ( talk) 05:44, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Sinixt/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
needs full writing = expansion/revision and also separate language article --
Skookum1 (6 May 06)
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Last edited at 23:34, 1 April 2014 (UTC). Substituted at 06:16, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Why does the infobox say "Total population: 250 in the US," then the article text goes on to mention that a bunch of Sinixt people also live in British Columbia, Canada? Please fix. 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 03:20, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
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This article is poorly written--what the heck are "Sinixt"? Are they Indians, rabbits, tumbleweeds, or what? All the article states is that they were "inhabitants" who were declared "extinct". Very confusingly written. Matt Yeager ♫ ( Talk?) 23:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
The Sinixt or "Lakes" were a Salishan-speaking people allied with the Ktunaxa who were declared extinct in Canada after the smallpox and otherwise depopulated, but a few survivors remain in the United States. Their territory was the Kootenay and Arrow Lakes of BC (Nelson-Castlegar-Nakusp area). Skookum1 07:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Sinixt were not, to my knowledge "Allied with the Ktunaxa". The Ktunaxa arrived in the Arrow Lakes region of BC from the plains, and were permitted to stay by the Sinixt, who already occupied the land
According to this film: 'The Sinix't , Bringing Home the Bones' the Sinix't were not, nor never were 'extinct' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nm0_EX97rU
More info on their website here
http://sinixtnation.org/content/sinixt-nation-launch-massive-land-claim (not that the film and the website are related, they're not)
Veryscarymary (
talk)
14:57, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for expanding this; I wrote the stub but knew little more about the Sinixt than what's here and there in BC history and historical journalism articles. A few questions, though:
hey skookum1 Yah, I saw the article was flagged for improvement so I added a few things. It obvioulsy will need to be cleaned up and citations added, but I am a bit too busy at the moment. Will get to it though.
I am not familiar with your Teit reference at the moment. Part of the confusion was that Boas/Teit classified the Sinixt within the larger "Okanagan", but then subdivided the Okanagan proper to sometimes include a "Lake" division, as opposed to the "Lakes" which is always a reference to the sinixt. My suspicion is that he was referring to the former, although I am definately interested.
I will also add a language stub. I recall reading it was similar to colville, but more 'drawn out'.
Teit (and others) describe the late pre-contact war with the Ktunaxa, in which the Sinixt were eventually able to stop the aggressors by a final large-scale raid on the Southern Ktunaxa.
There is, however, quite a lot of evidence that there was significant regional conflict at some time prior to the smallpox. Many pithouse villages seem to have been abandoned in the 1400s. I suspect that there was major Athabaskan/Salish/Ktunaxa conflict far beyond the basic Nicola/chilcotin enigma. Let's not forget that the Apache/navajo etc. had only just arrived in the Southern plains when the Spanish got there in the 1500s (The Apache were reeking havoc at the time amongst the non-nomadic peoples who were indigenous to the area.). There are differing theories among archeologists about whether it was strictly a plains migration or 'inter-montaine'.
––––
Just changed a couple things. I changed it from 3800 years to "over 4000" years in order to me more accurate with respect to the "Salish Expansion". The evidence suggests the Salish came into the area 4500 years ago or so. Someone asked who they replaced? This is something virtually impossible to answer. After all, when we talk about the Salish expansion, we are including the Flathead, Spokane, Colvile, Okanagan, Shuswap, Thompson, etc. etc. There is an "archeological gap" of a couple hundred years prior to this. The biggest distinction between them and the people they replaced is that the people(s) they replaced were more clearly nomadic. Hence it is quite difficult to say. Both ancestors to the Ktunaxa and Sahaptin are good bets, although the nomadic nature of the times meant that there was probably a lot of changes over time. Regardless, we should not forget that 4500 years is longer than the "Irish" have been in Ireland or the "British" have been in England. Yes, there were Irish and British before, but 4500 is long before the Galic, the Norse, the Norman, the Romans or other populating groups entered those areas and gave them the genetics and languages spoken there today. 4500 years is a long long long long time.
As you can see, I've been making extensive additions based on Lawney Reyes' memoir, and citing them rather specifically. Could someone possibly improve the citation on the rest of the material? - Jmabel | Talk 06:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Even if only as a stub, as with Okanagan language, plus any refs that might google up for it; there's passages from Teit about them, and I've seen recent mainstream journalistic-history articles on them here in BC, though nothing on their language directly. That article would then get the Salishan languages category instead of this one; there are other hierarchies to be had here too, like the indigenous languages of the Plateau category and some others; whatever's on Syilx and Secwepemc, I guess. Anyway, separate language articles also infer that hopefully there's material on the Sinixt language (Sinixt'stn?) somewhere out there to form the stub with; other than that vague refs that it's closely related to Colville and [[[Okanagan language|Syilx'tsn]] (Okaganan) and such is fine; just to establish the stub. The modern Colville language/dialect, which I understand to be a creole of many Salishan languages from the area (and others?), also deserves its own article; again even if only a stub. But I wouldn't know what to call it; unless it has a self-description/name, e.g. Syilx'tsn vs Okanagan language; as the indigenous name is preferable. Skookum1 08:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Just curious, if there's someone from Colville or the ONA who could explain, and maybe amend the article appropriately - because the Sinixt are part of the Colville, and Colville is part of the ONA, does the ONA represent the Sinixt's interests in BC/Canada? Because I know there's some talking going on, even though no movement (I think) to treaty process; but I do know Sinixt rights/claims have been advanced up here, at last in print/web somewhere if not in process. I know there's something to do with archaeological digs with Sinixt involvement, and with Sinixt political implications, and I think some court proceedings as well as local orgs in support of them (nice thing about the West Kootenay as to the broad-mindedness of the neighbours...). I think they may also be somehow connected to Fort Shepherd Provincial Pari (if that links, I'm not sure), or Fort Shepherd anyway, which was established to serve them as customers when the border cut Colville, then the biggest fur trade centre, in the area, off from British territory; it's been restored and I think there's Sinixt involvement somehow, or permissions or something; something in the news up here, within the last five years anyway; don't know where to dig but it's out there.... Skookum1 08:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Alternately, is it just the Okanagan families among the Colville who are allied/in the same tribal council with the Canadian Okanagan, or all the Colville?
ONA do not represent the Sinixt, at least not with the full permission of Autonomous Sinixt Elders. In the U.S., the Sinixt were forcefully amalgamated into the Colville Confederated Tribes. In Canada, they were declared legally extinct for the purposes of the Indian Act in 1956. As such, many of the groups around them attempt to use their lack of status (and the fact that many Sinixt chose membership in neighbouring territories so they could stay in Canada) as a means to co-opt/claim their territory for resources, speak on their behalf or both. The Sinixt were there for the founding of ONA, but Eva Orr, the Sinixt Elder present to represent the Sinixt at that time refused membership, because ONA tried lumping the Sinixt in with the Okanagan Indian Band against their will. Before colonization, the Sinixt were an autonomous group for thousands of years. ONA and Colville Confederated Tribes currently have a Memorandum of Understanding and jointly make decisions in Sinixt Territory in Canada "on behalf" of the Sinixt, even though members (namely Marilyn James) of the elder structure laid out by Eva Orr before she died have repeatedly told both groups they do not speak for the Autonomous Sinixt north of the Canada/U.S. border. As for archy digs, yes there are at least two I am aware of in the Slocan Valley, relating mainly to pithouses that are somewhere around 2,500 years old. They can be identified as Sinixt because the Sinixt bury their dead in a manner quite different from their neighbours. There would be many more digs, but approximately 90% of Sinixt archaeological sites were flooded when the Columbia River Treaty was signed and the dams started going up-Shane 473-cultural anthropologist specializing in Sinixt Culture and Dialect (haven't used my account proper in a while and am having trouble getting back in).
The relocation of Colville had little to do with a specific tribe; if anything it was the relocation of HBC operations to Fort Shepherd much later on that might have, but not Colville; all tribes in the area of Kettle Falls were teh reason why, partly, but mostly it had to do with ease of shipping. As for the lcaim that thet Sinixt played "a major but unheralded role in the fur trade", not sure how this can even be said, as if other native peoples didn't have at least an equivalent role, and all are "heralded" in the annals of the fur trade. And as for having a role in the border dispute, I'll repeat my edit comment - "puh-LEEXE!". In what fashion could these be any kind of reality? They were consulted? They advised London or Washington? Even the HBC in the Northwest didn't have a major role, it was all played out in the capitals. Totally uncitable and confabulous, I removed it. If you've got a reason/cite why it was the case, put it back in. This may be Sinixt-elder lore, but it bears no resemblance to reality as known by anyone else......and for those who hate my guts here, and may have induced or know who induced the emailed threat against me, I've never been given so much reason to stand up to bullying and will watch this article for further confabulations and overblown "facts". I do the same on non-aboriginal articles, i.e. critical editing, and thinking I've singled hte Sinixt out for "Indian-hater" persecution is just more bunk of the same kind that shows up in Sinixt "histories" published of late; I'm not saying editors here have been party to this; but editors here should be aware of the lack of substance of materials from items like the Tyee article and its kidn, and also be aware that threatening someone into silence is a surefire way to get them to raise their voice even louder. I've done huge amounts of work making sure indigenous sensitivities are reflected across BC articles and beyond; to be accused of being an "Indian-hater" because I won't buy into someone's paranoid lies.....well, it's just another paranoid lie, isn't it? Skookum1 ( talk) 17:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi there. I will endeavour to get the cite showing that Fort Colville was created in part to be closer to the Lakes and their territory. I agree that it should remain off the page until it's cited. I recall a specific reference (must`ve been from Simpson or even higher up) that one reason Spokane House was being replaced was to be more central to the productive and "vast" lands of the Lakes. There had even been a satellite "Fort of the Lakes" on Arrow Lake for a while. As for their role in the fur trade, the vast majority of Fort Colville records are unfortunately missing from the HBC archives and lost. The existing records that specify returns by nation show that the Lakes had the highest overall returns. The "major role" includes this fact, especially considering that this made the Lakes the top producing trappers at the most important interior fort in the Columbia District. This era (pre-1830) also coincided with the real on-the-ground "not so cold war" over the whole Columbia, when American settlers had not actually arrived and any American claim to the Territory was rather weaker than the British (not to mention the locals). The earliest records (including US sources) confirm that notwithstanding the Anglo-American Convention of 1818, Spokane/Colville/Sinixt/Flathead/PendOreilles/coeur d'Alene/and Nez Perce all were involved in acting, even violently, to stymie the earliest American overland Mountain Men and independent traders encroaching from the South and East. This is quite apart from any "London and Washington" negotiations, and in my mind can be reasonably characterised as a "major but unheralded role". Put it this way, not one British soldier ever stepped foot in this region during the entire dispute. In my mind, it would be folly to say that the dispute over the Columbia only occurred in Washington and London. I agree, however, that such statement are appropriately left off the page until they're cited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phillips arm ( talk • contribs) 07:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
It was Simpson who ordered, in 1825, the construction of Fort Colville to replace Spokane House as the regional district headquarters. At least part of the reason was because Spokane House was poorly located in terms of trade traffic patterns. Company officials had been trying to relocate Spokane House since the pre-1821 North West Company days. Donald MacKenzie got Fort Nez Perces built in 1818 and tried to have it take over the operations of Spokane House. Apparently traders and trappers so enjoyed Spokane House itself they raised an outcry whenever it was proposed to be moved. It took Simpson to finally make it happen. So one reason for the move to Fort Colville was because Spokane House was simply a strategically poor location for a district headquarters. A location on the Columbia River was much more sensible in terms of trade routes and traffic. Another reason was that Simpson thought farms and ranches around Fort Colville would be very productive. He was right: After a few years Fort Colville was supplying foodstuffs over a huge area, from the Snake River country to Kamloops and New Caledonia, and even provided seed-wheat to Fort Edmonton. Certainly there could be other reasons, like being closer to major fur producing areas.
According to D.W. Meinig, beaver returns for the Fort Colville district were regularly among the largest of the whole Columbia District, excepting New Caledonia and the sometimes the Snake River expeditions. Meinig writes that most of the furs from Fort Colville came from the Flathead and Kootenay countries. But by "Kootenay" he seems to mean the country around Kootenay Post, on the Kootenay River near present-day Libby, Montana. I'm not very knowledge on the indigenous geography on this region, but wouldn't this post be in Kootenai (Ktunaxa) territory rather than Sinixt? But then, Meinig could be wrong, or I could be misunderstanding. I thought I'd post these observations though. Forgive me if I've misunderstood things -- I'm not clear on quite where the "Lakes country" is exactly. Pfly ( talk) 23:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Might be worth adding that the earlier smallpox epidemics are believed to have spread overland from New Spain, via inter-indigenous contact, and did not come overland from the East; and re the last sentence although the next paragraph explores some of that instablity, the drift ot htis sentence has a subtext that this political upheaval is to be blamed on the Indian Wars farther east, resulting in Blackfoot raids and the Ktunaxa push into the Kootenays; the theory is POV in and of itself and while not stated here, it seems implied. There's no proof that the period of instability did not go back a lot farther; the story of Nicola's lineage goes back to at least 1670 and speaks ofwars throughtout the Plateau and adjoining areas. Unless that's to be blamed on butterfly-effects frmo the Indian Wars on the Atlantic Seaboard and the Southeast...again, not written POV-ly here, but implied/hinted and recognizable to those who have heard the other story. Political upheaval doesn't adequately describe slave raids or the Blackfoot presence in the Big Bend and upper Arrow...... Skookum1 ( talk) 05:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chipewyan people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 09:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 23:34, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
Sinixt people → Sinixt – target is redirect to current title; on June 8, 2011 by Kwami with no regard to PRIMARYTOPIC or WP:UNDAB. Skookum1 ( talk) 05:44, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Sinixt/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
needs full writing = expansion/revision and also separate language article --
Skookum1 (6 May 06)
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Last edited at 23:34, 1 April 2014 (UTC). Substituted at 06:16, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Why does the infobox say "Total population: 250 in the US," then the article text goes on to mention that a bunch of Sinixt people also live in British Columbia, Canada? Please fix. 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 03:20, 10 April 2022 (UTC)