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Hey all, I'm rather new to Wikipedia and would like to know your opinion on a change that I think is necessary. The picture in the info box of a Sinhalese man in Bombay seems rather old and not very clearly depicting of the current generation of Sinhalese people. Can we edit the picture to a more modern depiction of a Sinhalese person? If not, what are the reasons not to do so. Thank you. ඩිජිටල්0සෝමේ ( talk) 07:32, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
“Sinhalese” is not recorded by the UK census specifically, the figure for Sri Lankans includes groups like Tamils, Moors etc
The previous source was a letter from a Sri Lankan high commissioner criticising a person for visiting what he considered a separatist event, and points to their “far higher” contribution to British society and is extremely biased.
I have found only one paper so far on the Sinhalese community (“ The exact number of the Sri Lankan diaspora living in the United Kingdom is not known, as they have not been included in any form of census.”) - http://researchonline.ljmu.ac.uk/id/eprint/11772/1/2019nandasinghephd.pdf
Please update if you have any proper sources
New Zealand’s original source listed : https://teara.govt.nz/en/sri-lankans/3%7Ctitle=3
Refers to Sri Lankans as a whole, as its census data, far fewer choose to identify as “Sinhala/Tamil etc.” so impossible to ascertain how many of each exist
Would appreciate any clear sources
Due to the conflation with other Sri Lankans the diaspora numbers can be very skewed caution is advised
Australia’s number quoted : https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/mca/files/2016-cis-sri-lanka.PDF
This only referred to the number who said they were born on the island of Sri Lanka, and this is again census data
Proper citations are needed for nearly all countries listed so its usefulness to the page is questionable.
Let me know what you think about the numbers
AlbusWulfricDumbledore ( talk) 21:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:38, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
Mr @ JohnWiki159:, Mahavamsa says that Vijaya and his entourage married nobles women from the pandya kingdom. Southern Madura refers to madurai, and pandu refers to the pandya kingdom. The chapter also refers to thousands of settlers migrating from the Pandya kingdom (of the 18 guilds). See the notes in the Mahavamsa chapter at the end. In the Gananath Obeysekera article he clearly states that Vijaya married a pandya princess:
"Subsequently, in a formal ceremonial, he married a princess from South Madurapura (in the Tamil country, distinguished from North Madurapura, the land of Krsna). There were no heirs from this marriage, and Vijaya's brother's son was brought from Sinhapura to take over the kingship.(5) This is the foundational myth for Sri Lankan history and it is an inescapable part of the historical consciousness of the Sinhalas. Modern scholars have scarcely noted the fact that it is a myth of ethnic separation and integration. The land is consecrated and cleansed of evil spirits by the Buddha for Vijaya to land; the hunters are descended from Vijaya but by an illegitimate union, and hence outside the pale of legitimate kingship and Buddhist history and civilization. The Tamils are affines; they do not inherit the dynasty; it goes back to Pandu Vasudeva, whose name resonates with that of the protagonists of the Mahabharata. Yet, unlike the Vaddas, the Tamils are not only kinfolk but also co- founders of the nation. This aspect of the myth has been almost completely forgotten or ignored in recent times. The rest of the Vijaya myth appears everywhere and is so powerful that virtually everyone treats it as an empirically "true" beginning of Sri Lankan history."
Mahavamsa says:
"When the messengers were quickly come by ship to the city of Madhura they laid the gifts and letter before the king. The king took counsel with his ministers, and since he was minded to send his daughter (to Lanka) he, having first received also daughters of others for the ministers (of VIJAYA), nigh upon a hundred maidens, proclaimed with beat of drum: `Those men here who are willing to let a daughter depart for Lanka shall provide their daughters with a double store of clothing and place them at the doors of their houses. By this sign shall we (know that we may) take them to ourselves.’ When he had thus obtained many maidens and had given compensation to their families, he sent his daughter, bedecked with all her ornaments, and all that was needful for the journey,17 and all the maidens whom he had fitted out, according to their rank, elephants withal and horses and waggons, worthy of a king, and craftsmen and a thousand families of the eighteen guilds, entrusted with a letter to the conqueror VIJAYA. All this multitude of men disembarked at Mahatittha; for that very reason is that landing-place known as Mahatittha."
There is no mention in Mahavamsa of Sinhalese being descendants of Nagas. Vijaya and his men married women from the Pandya country (Note 16- Now Madura, in the south of the Madras Presidency.). Metta79 ( talk) 14:21, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Mahavamsa mentions both mixture with yakkhas and pandya settlers, you cant selectively pick and choose what you want from Mahavamsa. Also it is very rude to ask to take it to the talk page and then make such biased edits, without discussion. Seriously you say Sinhalese are descended from yakkhas based on the kuveni story, whose descendants are described as the pulindas/veddahs. But then you ignore the thousands of settlers Mahavamsa mentions from the pandya kingdom, including the wives of Vijaya and his men. Metta79 ( talk) 16:48, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Dakkhina Madura (southern Madura) of the Pandu kingdom as identified by scholars as Madurai of the Pandya kingdom. Pandu is the word used to describe the Pandya dynasty throughout the Pali chronicles of Mahavamsa and Culavamsa. Metta79 ( talk) 17:24, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Siv hela and ravana 'theory' is well known pseudo history that has no place in an encyclopedia. Not one trained historian or linguist will agree with this fringe theory. I've already shown how it does not keep in with WP:PARITY. None of the sources you have used satisfy WP:SCHOLARSHIP and are poets, novelists etc. Not trained scholars in the field. Metta79 ( talk) 22:25, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
@ JohnWiki159:, the ancient Sinhala Prakrit word for 4 is catara, which is closer to Sanskrit/Prakrit catur (compare to modern Sinhala hatara, Sinhala often has c>h or s>h change from Prakrit/Sanskrit). This word 'Siv' is not even attested in the ancient period, let alone the fake term Sivhela. It is impossible for this fake term 'Siv-hela' to have existed in the prehistoric period. There is no evidence of this term existing anywhere in the ancient inscriptions or literature!!!
https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/about/vilaveva-inscription-a-short-notarial-deed-on-stone/
https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/ancient-sinhala-numerals/
https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/about/a-table-of-numerals/
Metta79 ( talk) 05:39, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
"Also, I don't think you are a trained scholar to completely disregard their hard work." You do not know my background, I actually do have formal university training in this field (History, Sanskrit, Linguistics). But that is besides the point.
Regarding the book you have linked, the author is clear that Ravana is MYTHOHISTORY:
"it shows that the identification of Lanka (from the Ramayana) with Sri Lanka and Ravana as the king of Lanka have been part of (alternative) mythistorical imaginations of the Sinhalese." Page 12.
Please at least read what you are linking. Just because some amateur nationalists believe in clearly made up mythohistorical imaginations (which only emerged in the post independence period mind you), does not give it the right to be put in a serious encyclopedia. Otherwise, we would have all sorts of myths and nonsense polluting a serious scholarly website, which is what Wikipedia is supposed to be. Metta79 ( talk) 12:24, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
It seems you have problems understanding her words. She clearly says on those pages that this siv hela theory is 'creative' meaning made up by modern day people like the poet Arisen. She does not say anywhere that it's historical. The difference between Mahavamsa and this nonsense, is that Mahavamsa is an ancient chronicle with a lot of historical value and truth corroborated by ancient inscriptions, it's the most important source of ancient Sri Lankan history. It has been historically analysed by historians. It's not some modern made up myth created out of thin air like Siv Hela. Metta79 ( talk) 10:07, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
the notability of a fringe theory must be judged by statements from verifiable and reliable sources, not the proclamations of its adherents.The sources you gave are primarily "proclamations of its adherents". As already mentioned, I don't have any problem with adding any theory even if it is considered fringe, particularly if the theory is popular, but it needs to be carefully written to reflect independent academic opinion so that it is not an WP:UNDUE promotion of a fringe idea. If you can find more assessment by independent academics, try again with something that's carefully-worded, and if your edits get continually disputed, then start a Wikipedia:Requests for comment to gather opinions from the wider community on whether it can be included in the article. Hzh ( talk) 11:34, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
References
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:08, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
1. Entire Southern India is not Tamil. There are many other non-Tamil speaking populations in Southern India.
2. Dravida in ancient terms meant geographic region bounded on 3 sides by sea = Indian peninsula starting from the mid part of India (south Vindhya mountains)
3. No where Dravida meant Tamil. Tamil had their own unique name Thamizh and were specifically confined to Tamil Nadu state of India
4. Sinhalese language is not spoken anywhere in India. It uniquely developed in Sri Lanka, thus Sinhalese culture and language indigenous to Sri Lanka.
5. Gene flow into Sinhalese population has come from various sources, with Maratha people sharing common ancestry with Sinhalese, as opposed to Bengal as per Singh et al research. There is a strong west Eurasian gene flow into Sri Lanka.
4.South Indian gene flows did happen, but despite this, the Sir Lankan population is considered homogenous with Sri Lankan tamils of U.K (STU) not ST (sri lanka tamils as a whole) being genetically related to Sinhalese, than rest of India.
all Sinhalese and all Tamils (including Tamil Nadu) are NOT genetically related and all of Sinhalese ancestry 'DID NOT' came from Tamil Nadu of South India.
Sri Lankan Tamils particularly the Sri Lankan Tamils in U.K (STU) mostly of upper caste Tamils who who migrated long ago as proffessions mostly from wealthy families are closely related to the Sinhalese as compared to OTHER indian populations including Indian tamil Nadu tamils. Gabrielasirwatham ( talk) 00:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
The new edit today made
"A 2023 genetics study by Singh et al confirmed North Indian affiliation to the Sinhalese population and deeply rooted common genetic ancestry with the Maratha.. The research study clearly shows a higher West Eurasian gene flow to Sinhalese, than South India.The research also indicates some genetic relationship with South India as well, which may be probably true for the Karava castes among coastal Sinhalese based on Sinhalese historical description of Karava immigration from south India and adoption into Buddhism. Research has also indicated a link between Sri Lankan Tamils in U.K (STU) and Sinhalese castes."
This is in balanced summary of the research studies taken.
Not all Tamils are related to Sinhalese, except Sri Lankan Tamils of u.k (stu) It is not Sinhalese who share entire genetics with Tamils as metta79 falsely keeps stating, it is STU that shares links to the Sinhalese, as compared to rest of South Asian populations Mentioned about the Karava castes already mentioned in the wikipeda article later on, in light of the research findings of some Indian gene flow. Karavas emigrated from south India, but nowhere it is proven they were Tamils. Their ancestor probably may have come from Kerala or Andhra pradesh or Karnataka or whatever.
Deep rooted common genetic ancestry with Marathas
I did not say Sinhalese came from Marathas, except both are sharing a common ancestry as per the research findings. Stating a west-Indian flow to Sri Lanka rather than Bengali flow to Sri Lanka as previous research (using lesser reliable technology) has stated.
That being said, Sinhalese are genetically diverse. So it is not correct to state that Sinhalese are all related to all Tamils. Some Tamils (STU) are related to Sinhalese. Gabrielasirwatham ( talk) 00:46, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
PAGE 3, SINGH ET AL 2023, 4TH PARAGRAPH https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10514440/pdf/main.pdf
" However, we have found slightly higher gene flow (but non-significant) from some North and Northwest Indian than the South Indian populations"(Table S2)
The most extensive genetic study done on the srilankan ethnicities point out that Sinhalese have a higher gene flow from the bengalis than any other race but the person name Metta79 keep on removing that info from Wikipedia when most of the genetic studies provided by both private and government studies shows that Sinhalese have higher gene flow from bengalis than the others and I hope it will be changed soon to the updated one
Ultra8K (
talk)
06:53, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
Old dosent mean inaccurate- Age do matter, and that is the Wikipedia guideline - see WP:AGE MATTERS. Newer research is generally preferred.
this is a well cited book- Only two sources that cited it given there, so as far as the scientific community goes, that genetic study is largely ignored. It's irrelevant if other non-scientific sources cite the book, citation by historians are ignored by scientists (you also didn't provide proof that it's recommended by historians). I would suggest you use newer sources for Bengalis is you want to make the claim. I see also that the book contains very old research that is no longer used by modern scientists. Just checked that the journal from Metta79 is iScience, not Cell itself, but one of the journals by Cell Press, in any case, you can't expect other people to cite it when it has just been published. Both yours and Metta79's can be given in Genetic studies on Sinhalese where you can have a fuller discussion. You need sources about Blacks and Tamils who forgot their roots. Hzh ( talk) 14:42, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
References
PAGE 3, SINGH ET AL 2023, 4TH PARAGRAPH https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10514440/pdf/main.pdf
" However, we have found slightly higher gene flow (but non-significant) from some North and Northwest Indian than the South Indian populations"(Table S2) Gabrielasirwatham ( talk) 07:43, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
@ Gabrielasirwatham: the study does not say that Sinhalese are genetically closest to Maratha. It says there is a trace of ancestry that is affiliated with them. But overall they cluster closest with both sets of Tamils. Please read the study again properly and have a close look at the graphs, tables and charts. Metta79 ( talk) 10:49, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
References
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10514440/
Please refer to the above latest genetic research link by Singh Et Al 2023
This is clearly what it states in the highlights of the study done on Sinhalese genes (3rd section below the graphical abstract and summary).
Higher West Eurasian genetic component in Śrī Laṅkā than South India • A strong gene flow beyond the boundary of ethnicity and language in Śrī Laṅkā • Traces of common roots of Sinhala with Maratha
It also confirms that the upper caste Sri Lankan Tamils in the U.K have close genetic relationship with Sinhalese, confirming the historical narrative that some Sinhalese upper castes were force-assimilated into Tamil culture after the invasion of the northern part of the island by the Chola Empire.
Tamil nationalists keep vandalizing this page, to state greater gene inflow from south India by misquoting this study. Gabrielasirwatham ( talk) 23:50, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Hey all, I'm rather new to Wikipedia and would like to know your opinion on a change that I think is necessary. The picture in the info box of a Sinhalese man in Bombay seems rather old and not very clearly depicting of the current generation of Sinhalese people. Can we edit the picture to a more modern depiction of a Sinhalese person? If not, what are the reasons not to do so. Thank you. ඩිජිටල්0සෝමේ ( talk) 07:32, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
“Sinhalese” is not recorded by the UK census specifically, the figure for Sri Lankans includes groups like Tamils, Moors etc
The previous source was a letter from a Sri Lankan high commissioner criticising a person for visiting what he considered a separatist event, and points to their “far higher” contribution to British society and is extremely biased.
I have found only one paper so far on the Sinhalese community (“ The exact number of the Sri Lankan diaspora living in the United Kingdom is not known, as they have not been included in any form of census.”) - http://researchonline.ljmu.ac.uk/id/eprint/11772/1/2019nandasinghephd.pdf
Please update if you have any proper sources
New Zealand’s original source listed : https://teara.govt.nz/en/sri-lankans/3%7Ctitle=3
Refers to Sri Lankans as a whole, as its census data, far fewer choose to identify as “Sinhala/Tamil etc.” so impossible to ascertain how many of each exist
Would appreciate any clear sources
Due to the conflation with other Sri Lankans the diaspora numbers can be very skewed caution is advised
Australia’s number quoted : https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/mca/files/2016-cis-sri-lanka.PDF
This only referred to the number who said they were born on the island of Sri Lanka, and this is again census data
Proper citations are needed for nearly all countries listed so its usefulness to the page is questionable.
Let me know what you think about the numbers
AlbusWulfricDumbledore ( talk) 21:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:38, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
Mr @ JohnWiki159:, Mahavamsa says that Vijaya and his entourage married nobles women from the pandya kingdom. Southern Madura refers to madurai, and pandu refers to the pandya kingdom. The chapter also refers to thousands of settlers migrating from the Pandya kingdom (of the 18 guilds). See the notes in the Mahavamsa chapter at the end. In the Gananath Obeysekera article he clearly states that Vijaya married a pandya princess:
"Subsequently, in a formal ceremonial, he married a princess from South Madurapura (in the Tamil country, distinguished from North Madurapura, the land of Krsna). There were no heirs from this marriage, and Vijaya's brother's son was brought from Sinhapura to take over the kingship.(5) This is the foundational myth for Sri Lankan history and it is an inescapable part of the historical consciousness of the Sinhalas. Modern scholars have scarcely noted the fact that it is a myth of ethnic separation and integration. The land is consecrated and cleansed of evil spirits by the Buddha for Vijaya to land; the hunters are descended from Vijaya but by an illegitimate union, and hence outside the pale of legitimate kingship and Buddhist history and civilization. The Tamils are affines; they do not inherit the dynasty; it goes back to Pandu Vasudeva, whose name resonates with that of the protagonists of the Mahabharata. Yet, unlike the Vaddas, the Tamils are not only kinfolk but also co- founders of the nation. This aspect of the myth has been almost completely forgotten or ignored in recent times. The rest of the Vijaya myth appears everywhere and is so powerful that virtually everyone treats it as an empirically "true" beginning of Sri Lankan history."
Mahavamsa says:
"When the messengers were quickly come by ship to the city of Madhura they laid the gifts and letter before the king. The king took counsel with his ministers, and since he was minded to send his daughter (to Lanka) he, having first received also daughters of others for the ministers (of VIJAYA), nigh upon a hundred maidens, proclaimed with beat of drum: `Those men here who are willing to let a daughter depart for Lanka shall provide their daughters with a double store of clothing and place them at the doors of their houses. By this sign shall we (know that we may) take them to ourselves.’ When he had thus obtained many maidens and had given compensation to their families, he sent his daughter, bedecked with all her ornaments, and all that was needful for the journey,17 and all the maidens whom he had fitted out, according to their rank, elephants withal and horses and waggons, worthy of a king, and craftsmen and a thousand families of the eighteen guilds, entrusted with a letter to the conqueror VIJAYA. All this multitude of men disembarked at Mahatittha; for that very reason is that landing-place known as Mahatittha."
There is no mention in Mahavamsa of Sinhalese being descendants of Nagas. Vijaya and his men married women from the Pandya country (Note 16- Now Madura, in the south of the Madras Presidency.). Metta79 ( talk) 14:21, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Mahavamsa mentions both mixture with yakkhas and pandya settlers, you cant selectively pick and choose what you want from Mahavamsa. Also it is very rude to ask to take it to the talk page and then make such biased edits, without discussion. Seriously you say Sinhalese are descended from yakkhas based on the kuveni story, whose descendants are described as the pulindas/veddahs. But then you ignore the thousands of settlers Mahavamsa mentions from the pandya kingdom, including the wives of Vijaya and his men. Metta79 ( talk) 16:48, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Dakkhina Madura (southern Madura) of the Pandu kingdom as identified by scholars as Madurai of the Pandya kingdom. Pandu is the word used to describe the Pandya dynasty throughout the Pali chronicles of Mahavamsa and Culavamsa. Metta79 ( talk) 17:24, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Siv hela and ravana 'theory' is well known pseudo history that has no place in an encyclopedia. Not one trained historian or linguist will agree with this fringe theory. I've already shown how it does not keep in with WP:PARITY. None of the sources you have used satisfy WP:SCHOLARSHIP and are poets, novelists etc. Not trained scholars in the field. Metta79 ( talk) 22:25, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
@ JohnWiki159:, the ancient Sinhala Prakrit word for 4 is catara, which is closer to Sanskrit/Prakrit catur (compare to modern Sinhala hatara, Sinhala often has c>h or s>h change from Prakrit/Sanskrit). This word 'Siv' is not even attested in the ancient period, let alone the fake term Sivhela. It is impossible for this fake term 'Siv-hela' to have existed in the prehistoric period. There is no evidence of this term existing anywhere in the ancient inscriptions or literature!!!
https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/about/vilaveva-inscription-a-short-notarial-deed-on-stone/
https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/ancient-sinhala-numerals/
https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/about/a-table-of-numerals/
Metta79 ( talk) 05:39, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
"Also, I don't think you are a trained scholar to completely disregard their hard work." You do not know my background, I actually do have formal university training in this field (History, Sanskrit, Linguistics). But that is besides the point.
Regarding the book you have linked, the author is clear that Ravana is MYTHOHISTORY:
"it shows that the identification of Lanka (from the Ramayana) with Sri Lanka and Ravana as the king of Lanka have been part of (alternative) mythistorical imaginations of the Sinhalese." Page 12.
Please at least read what you are linking. Just because some amateur nationalists believe in clearly made up mythohistorical imaginations (which only emerged in the post independence period mind you), does not give it the right to be put in a serious encyclopedia. Otherwise, we would have all sorts of myths and nonsense polluting a serious scholarly website, which is what Wikipedia is supposed to be. Metta79 ( talk) 12:24, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
It seems you have problems understanding her words. She clearly says on those pages that this siv hela theory is 'creative' meaning made up by modern day people like the poet Arisen. She does not say anywhere that it's historical. The difference between Mahavamsa and this nonsense, is that Mahavamsa is an ancient chronicle with a lot of historical value and truth corroborated by ancient inscriptions, it's the most important source of ancient Sri Lankan history. It has been historically analysed by historians. It's not some modern made up myth created out of thin air like Siv Hela. Metta79 ( talk) 10:07, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
the notability of a fringe theory must be judged by statements from verifiable and reliable sources, not the proclamations of its adherents.The sources you gave are primarily "proclamations of its adherents". As already mentioned, I don't have any problem with adding any theory even if it is considered fringe, particularly if the theory is popular, but it needs to be carefully written to reflect independent academic opinion so that it is not an WP:UNDUE promotion of a fringe idea. If you can find more assessment by independent academics, try again with something that's carefully-worded, and if your edits get continually disputed, then start a Wikipedia:Requests for comment to gather opinions from the wider community on whether it can be included in the article. Hzh ( talk) 11:34, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
References
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:08, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
1. Entire Southern India is not Tamil. There are many other non-Tamil speaking populations in Southern India.
2. Dravida in ancient terms meant geographic region bounded on 3 sides by sea = Indian peninsula starting from the mid part of India (south Vindhya mountains)
3. No where Dravida meant Tamil. Tamil had their own unique name Thamizh and were specifically confined to Tamil Nadu state of India
4. Sinhalese language is not spoken anywhere in India. It uniquely developed in Sri Lanka, thus Sinhalese culture and language indigenous to Sri Lanka.
5. Gene flow into Sinhalese population has come from various sources, with Maratha people sharing common ancestry with Sinhalese, as opposed to Bengal as per Singh et al research. There is a strong west Eurasian gene flow into Sri Lanka.
4.South Indian gene flows did happen, but despite this, the Sir Lankan population is considered homogenous with Sri Lankan tamils of U.K (STU) not ST (sri lanka tamils as a whole) being genetically related to Sinhalese, than rest of India.
all Sinhalese and all Tamils (including Tamil Nadu) are NOT genetically related and all of Sinhalese ancestry 'DID NOT' came from Tamil Nadu of South India.
Sri Lankan Tamils particularly the Sri Lankan Tamils in U.K (STU) mostly of upper caste Tamils who who migrated long ago as proffessions mostly from wealthy families are closely related to the Sinhalese as compared to OTHER indian populations including Indian tamil Nadu tamils. Gabrielasirwatham ( talk) 00:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
The new edit today made
"A 2023 genetics study by Singh et al confirmed North Indian affiliation to the Sinhalese population and deeply rooted common genetic ancestry with the Maratha.. The research study clearly shows a higher West Eurasian gene flow to Sinhalese, than South India.The research also indicates some genetic relationship with South India as well, which may be probably true for the Karava castes among coastal Sinhalese based on Sinhalese historical description of Karava immigration from south India and adoption into Buddhism. Research has also indicated a link between Sri Lankan Tamils in U.K (STU) and Sinhalese castes."
This is in balanced summary of the research studies taken.
Not all Tamils are related to Sinhalese, except Sri Lankan Tamils of u.k (stu) It is not Sinhalese who share entire genetics with Tamils as metta79 falsely keeps stating, it is STU that shares links to the Sinhalese, as compared to rest of South Asian populations Mentioned about the Karava castes already mentioned in the wikipeda article later on, in light of the research findings of some Indian gene flow. Karavas emigrated from south India, but nowhere it is proven they were Tamils. Their ancestor probably may have come from Kerala or Andhra pradesh or Karnataka or whatever.
Deep rooted common genetic ancestry with Marathas
I did not say Sinhalese came from Marathas, except both are sharing a common ancestry as per the research findings. Stating a west-Indian flow to Sri Lanka rather than Bengali flow to Sri Lanka as previous research (using lesser reliable technology) has stated.
That being said, Sinhalese are genetically diverse. So it is not correct to state that Sinhalese are all related to all Tamils. Some Tamils (STU) are related to Sinhalese. Gabrielasirwatham ( talk) 00:46, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
PAGE 3, SINGH ET AL 2023, 4TH PARAGRAPH https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10514440/pdf/main.pdf
" However, we have found slightly higher gene flow (but non-significant) from some North and Northwest Indian than the South Indian populations"(Table S2)
The most extensive genetic study done on the srilankan ethnicities point out that Sinhalese have a higher gene flow from the bengalis than any other race but the person name Metta79 keep on removing that info from Wikipedia when most of the genetic studies provided by both private and government studies shows that Sinhalese have higher gene flow from bengalis than the others and I hope it will be changed soon to the updated one
Ultra8K (
talk)
06:53, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
Old dosent mean inaccurate- Age do matter, and that is the Wikipedia guideline - see WP:AGE MATTERS. Newer research is generally preferred.
this is a well cited book- Only two sources that cited it given there, so as far as the scientific community goes, that genetic study is largely ignored. It's irrelevant if other non-scientific sources cite the book, citation by historians are ignored by scientists (you also didn't provide proof that it's recommended by historians). I would suggest you use newer sources for Bengalis is you want to make the claim. I see also that the book contains very old research that is no longer used by modern scientists. Just checked that the journal from Metta79 is iScience, not Cell itself, but one of the journals by Cell Press, in any case, you can't expect other people to cite it when it has just been published. Both yours and Metta79's can be given in Genetic studies on Sinhalese where you can have a fuller discussion. You need sources about Blacks and Tamils who forgot their roots. Hzh ( talk) 14:42, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
References
PAGE 3, SINGH ET AL 2023, 4TH PARAGRAPH https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10514440/pdf/main.pdf
" However, we have found slightly higher gene flow (but non-significant) from some North and Northwest Indian than the South Indian populations"(Table S2) Gabrielasirwatham ( talk) 07:43, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
@ Gabrielasirwatham: the study does not say that Sinhalese are genetically closest to Maratha. It says there is a trace of ancestry that is affiliated with them. But overall they cluster closest with both sets of Tamils. Please read the study again properly and have a close look at the graphs, tables and charts. Metta79 ( talk) 10:49, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
References
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10514440/
Please refer to the above latest genetic research link by Singh Et Al 2023
This is clearly what it states in the highlights of the study done on Sinhalese genes (3rd section below the graphical abstract and summary).
Higher West Eurasian genetic component in Śrī Laṅkā than South India • A strong gene flow beyond the boundary of ethnicity and language in Śrī Laṅkā • Traces of common roots of Sinhala with Maratha
It also confirms that the upper caste Sri Lankan Tamils in the U.K have close genetic relationship with Sinhalese, confirming the historical narrative that some Sinhalese upper castes were force-assimilated into Tamil culture after the invasion of the northern part of the island by the Chola Empire.
Tamil nationalists keep vandalizing this page, to state greater gene inflow from south India by misquoting this study. Gabrielasirwatham ( talk) 23:50, 17 April 2024 (UTC)