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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In the past few weeks there's been some dispute over which portrait should be used to represent Bolívar in his infobox. In order to avoid an edit war, I'd suggest proper consensus be reached here before further edits are made. Below are some candidates which have been under in contention. Krisgabwoosh ( talk) 19:52, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
I have gutted the relevant section and reduced it to but one link. – ♠Vami _IV†♠ 05:03, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
There are monuments in the US as well, why aren't they listed? Like this one in New Orleans: https://louisianadigitallibrary.org/islandora/object/state-lhp:7656 and I work on Bolivar Street in New Orleans which is named after him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:A40:5B90:1D49:A67A:1A81:CC1E ( talk) 05:42, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
While Simon Bolivar is credited with liberating five (5) nations, the article in English fails to mention Panama -a former territory of Colombia- as one of the "current" countries led by him to independence from the Spanish Empire. In the Spanish version of the same entry, the correction has been made in a way that better reflects the extent of Bolivar's accomplishments. 2601:80:4681:5EC0:4542:5EB3:DD4C:CE54 ( talk) 20:36, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
I saw that the Arabic version of the article is fairly comprehensive and throughly cited. Perhaps we should import some of the citations to here as well? CactiStaccingCrane ( talk) 06:44, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Simón Bolívar Day and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 2#Simón Bolívar Day until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
TartarTorte
13:19, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Reviewer: Premeditated Chaos ( talk · contribs) 22:54, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
Fun and cool experiment in which Guerillero and I team up to tackle a GAN of epic proportions. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 22:54, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
Going into this with the mindset that FAC is likely. I'm going to pick on redundancy esepcially, because this is such a long article we really can't afford to add more words when we don't need them.
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As for the Royalists and letting Bolívar go, that's a funny story I cut for brevity. So, the guy controlling La Guaira for the Republic turns Royalist and closes the port to stop other Republicans from attempting escape, but Bolívar slips the net and goes to Caracas. Everybody knows he's a firebreathing Republican so he can't stay, but he has friends on both sides and crashes on a Royalist friend's couch. Said friend arranges an audience with Monteverde to get Bolívar a passport so he can go into exile. The friend tries to spin this as Bolívar rendering service to the Crown or whatever, but Bolívar right then and there scoffs and goes "pfft imagine serving a king, how cringe", and the friend does the whole "ix nae" thing. Monteverde responds to this by going "ummm ok anyway everyone goes through these phases", dismisses Bolívar, and very much lives to regret letting him leave. The biographies relate how future mentions of the name Bolívar in Monteverde's presence caused the color to drain from his face. – ♠Vamí _IV†♠ 05:46, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
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Okay. At long last, the first pass is done. I'm sorry it took so long. I noticed that I often found myself asking why certain things were happening. I'm not sure if it's just me being dense (and I am, self-admittedly, somewhat dense when it comes to history as a topic) or if it's a consequence of trying to save words and glossing over things. But especially with all the flip-flopping of loyalties, it feels important to me to explain to the reader why people are doing stuff. Aside from that, my major criticism is the last few sections, which do feel like they could be increased a bit (as I noted). ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 08:42, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
I am going to be focusing on 2a, 2b, 3a, and 4 here:
This line of questions is meant to be a conversation. I am not suggesting any actions from you. I don't think it will be needed for GA, but it will hopefully reveal things that future FA reviewers may ask. All of your dead tree sourcing is from the last 20 years except Masur (1969). (Aside: you are missing that it is the revised edition.) It has been 74 years since the first edition and 54 years since the revised edition. For any source, that is a long time. With all of the recent scholarship that you have included, I worry that the field has moved past it. In your research, does Masur's biography still hold up as well as it did when he died in 1975? Do the contemporary sources speak of it? If so, in what regard? -- In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 12:54, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
This line of questions is meant to be a conversation. I am not suggesting any actions from you. I don't think it will be needed for GA, but it will hopefully reveal things that future FA reviewers may ask. With the exception of Cardozo Uzcátegui 2011, you exclusively rely on Anglophone scholarship about Bolívar. In your research, are there any major differences between it and the Spansh-language scholarship? Are we missing anything -- In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 12:54, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
Good enough for GA, but I worry about the over cite issues for FA -- Guerillero Parlez Moi 15:06, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
I am separating out my 28 March commentary from above, as it has not been addressed. The article says:
Right now, the article is reflecting a chavista/Cuban bias on this issue, and one that does not even accurately present what the Cuban source says. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 11:01, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
With ample reliable sources, there is no need to use a) biased sources, and b) primary medical sources. This article is interpreting Auwaerter's primary source work (see WP:MEDRS) rather than using secondary sources which have done that more accurately. Radio Rebelde should be completely removed, not the least because the article deals with the facial reconstruction (naturally, because they irritated most Venezuelans by digging up and cutting up their hero without finding any evidence of Chavez's conspiracy theory, so they focused instead on rebuilding Bolivar to make him look more indigenous) more than the conspiracy theories, and because reliable sources are available. The primary medical source could be used as an adjunct to what secondary sources say about it. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 11:41, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
The extensive use of interlanguage links (ILL) to the Spanish Wiki is most impressive and to be commended, but hiding the actual names of things/articles/battles/campaigns behind Easter-eggy links should be minimized. It's also possible via an ILL to name the article as it would be named on en.wiki (although I forget how). Generally, the Easter egg links could be minimized throughout (not just on ILLs). SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 12:04, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
|
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Simón Bolívar article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | Simón Bolívar has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on September 10, 2004, September 7, 2005, July 24, 2006, September 7, 2006, July 24, 2007, July 24, 2008, July 24, 2009, July 24, 2010, and July 24, 2023. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was created or improved during WikiProject Latin America's " Latin American and the Caribbean 10,000 Challenge", which started on November 1, 2016, and is ongoing. You can help out! |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In the past few weeks there's been some dispute over which portrait should be used to represent Bolívar in his infobox. In order to avoid an edit war, I'd suggest proper consensus be reached here before further edits are made. Below are some candidates which have been under in contention. Krisgabwoosh ( talk) 19:52, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
I have gutted the relevant section and reduced it to but one link. – ♠Vami _IV†♠ 05:03, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
There are monuments in the US as well, why aren't they listed? Like this one in New Orleans: https://louisianadigitallibrary.org/islandora/object/state-lhp:7656 and I work on Bolivar Street in New Orleans which is named after him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:A40:5B90:1D49:A67A:1A81:CC1E ( talk) 05:42, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
While Simon Bolivar is credited with liberating five (5) nations, the article in English fails to mention Panama -a former territory of Colombia- as one of the "current" countries led by him to independence from the Spanish Empire. In the Spanish version of the same entry, the correction has been made in a way that better reflects the extent of Bolivar's accomplishments. 2601:80:4681:5EC0:4542:5EB3:DD4C:CE54 ( talk) 20:36, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
I saw that the Arabic version of the article is fairly comprehensive and throughly cited. Perhaps we should import some of the citations to here as well? CactiStaccingCrane ( talk) 06:44, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Simón Bolívar Day and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 2#Simón Bolívar Day until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
TartarTorte
13:19, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Premeditated Chaos ( talk · contribs) 22:54, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
Fun and cool experiment in which Guerillero and I team up to tackle a GAN of epic proportions. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 22:54, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
Going into this with the mindset that FAC is likely. I'm going to pick on redundancy esepcially, because this is such a long article we really can't afford to add more words when we don't need them.
Extended content
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As for the Royalists and letting Bolívar go, that's a funny story I cut for brevity. So, the guy controlling La Guaira for the Republic turns Royalist and closes the port to stop other Republicans from attempting escape, but Bolívar slips the net and goes to Caracas. Everybody knows he's a firebreathing Republican so he can't stay, but he has friends on both sides and crashes on a Royalist friend's couch. Said friend arranges an audience with Monteverde to get Bolívar a passport so he can go into exile. The friend tries to spin this as Bolívar rendering service to the Crown or whatever, but Bolívar right then and there scoffs and goes "pfft imagine serving a king, how cringe", and the friend does the whole "ix nae" thing. Monteverde responds to this by going "ummm ok anyway everyone goes through these phases", dismisses Bolívar, and very much lives to regret letting him leave. The biographies relate how future mentions of the name Bolívar in Monteverde's presence caused the color to drain from his face. – ♠Vamí _IV†♠ 05:46, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
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Okay. At long last, the first pass is done. I'm sorry it took so long. I noticed that I often found myself asking why certain things were happening. I'm not sure if it's just me being dense (and I am, self-admittedly, somewhat dense when it comes to history as a topic) or if it's a consequence of trying to save words and glossing over things. But especially with all the flip-flopping of loyalties, it feels important to me to explain to the reader why people are doing stuff. Aside from that, my major criticism is the last few sections, which do feel like they could be increased a bit (as I noted). ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 08:42, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
I am going to be focusing on 2a, 2b, 3a, and 4 here:
This line of questions is meant to be a conversation. I am not suggesting any actions from you. I don't think it will be needed for GA, but it will hopefully reveal things that future FA reviewers may ask. All of your dead tree sourcing is from the last 20 years except Masur (1969). (Aside: you are missing that it is the revised edition.) It has been 74 years since the first edition and 54 years since the revised edition. For any source, that is a long time. With all of the recent scholarship that you have included, I worry that the field has moved past it. In your research, does Masur's biography still hold up as well as it did when he died in 1975? Do the contemporary sources speak of it? If so, in what regard? -- In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 12:54, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
This line of questions is meant to be a conversation. I am not suggesting any actions from you. I don't think it will be needed for GA, but it will hopefully reveal things that future FA reviewers may ask. With the exception of Cardozo Uzcátegui 2011, you exclusively rely on Anglophone scholarship about Bolívar. In your research, are there any major differences between it and the Spansh-language scholarship? Are we missing anything -- In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 12:54, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
Good enough for GA, but I worry about the over cite issues for FA -- Guerillero Parlez Moi 15:06, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
I am separating out my 28 March commentary from above, as it has not been addressed. The article says:
Right now, the article is reflecting a chavista/Cuban bias on this issue, and one that does not even accurately present what the Cuban source says. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 11:01, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
With ample reliable sources, there is no need to use a) biased sources, and b) primary medical sources. This article is interpreting Auwaerter's primary source work (see WP:MEDRS) rather than using secondary sources which have done that more accurately. Radio Rebelde should be completely removed, not the least because the article deals with the facial reconstruction (naturally, because they irritated most Venezuelans by digging up and cutting up their hero without finding any evidence of Chavez's conspiracy theory, so they focused instead on rebuilding Bolivar to make him look more indigenous) more than the conspiracy theories, and because reliable sources are available. The primary medical source could be used as an adjunct to what secondary sources say about it. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 11:41, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
The extensive use of interlanguage links (ILL) to the Spanish Wiki is most impressive and to be commended, but hiding the actual names of things/articles/battles/campaigns behind Easter-eggy links should be minimized. It's also possible via an ILL to name the article as it would be named on en.wiki (although I forget how). Generally, the Easter egg links could be minimized throughout (not just on ILLs). SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 12:04, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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