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The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support. Helps clarify at what this article is about. Shorter form "Silver/Bronze Star" is may be recognizable to Americans familiar with military culture, but not outside. Feels a bit slangy/jargony. A helpful improvement for clarity, consistency and is its official name too.
Walrasiad (
talk)
22:36, 19 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Support On the first page of Google Scholar results for Silver Star, only 2 were for the medal
[1]. Others included
silver nanoparticle,
Silver Star, Montana, a Chinese film journal, etc. From a global perspective, I'm skeptical that this is the primary topic in reliable sources. (
t ·
c) buidhe04:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose, and retain at current title. It seems to me there are three aspects to this - (1) is it primary topic for Silver Star, (2) is Silver Star the more common name for it than Silver Star Medal (or medal), and (3) If we include Medal, how should it be capitalised? Now on (1), I've checked the page views,
[2] for some of the most likely entries at
Silver Star (disambiguation) and this one dwarfs any other by a factor of 10, with the lion's share across all. So it looks like it is primary topic. Secondly, as I mentioned below, an ngram
[3] shows that when one compares awarded a silver star vs awarded a silver star medal, which should exclude most other meanings, the former massively outranks the latter, even taking into account that matches for SS are also matches for SSM. So on (1) and (2) my first choice, and I believe the correct action, is to keep the article exactly where it is. If, for whatever reason, the closer here does nonetheless decide that a move is necessary for whatever reason, I think
Silver Star (medal) and
Silver Star medal would be preferable, there isn't much evidence it's a proper name.
This ngram shows a bit of a lead for the capitalised version, but not the "substantial majority" required by
MOS:CAPS; and as recently as 2009, the Silver Star medal variant was in the lead. Cheers —
Amakuru (
talk)
12:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Discussion
@
Extorc and
ExtorcDev: please could I request a relist on this one? I think there's more analysis needed to figure out the true usage here, and in particular I don't think it's at all clear that "Silver Star Medal" is a proper name, including the "Medal" part. See
[4] for example, showing that "awarded a silver star" is hugely more common than "awarded a silver star medal", in any capitalisation. I think either
Silver Star medal or
Silver Star (medal) might be better titles, and would like to discuss that with the participants. Thanks —
Amakuru (
talk)
12:01, 26 May 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Amakuru Alright, I will do that. Also, in future if you see any activity from the ExtorcDev account, you can address it to the Extorc account. This one is only used when I wish to test my scripts.
ExtorcDev (
talk)
12:29, 26 May 2023 (UTC)reply
For what it's worth, the Department of Defense uses the term
Silver Star. There's no qualifier or 'medal' seen anywhere.
Intothatdarkness 01:39, 27 May 2023 (UTC) (adding) The most recent version of Title 10, USC (the main authorizing document for the military in the United States) also refers to it as the Silver Star
here. That same link does mention the Bronze Star Medal, but that could be because there are TWO varieties of the Bronze Star...the standard BSM which can be awarded for general conduct and the BSM with V device indicating it was awarded for Valor (actions in combat). The Silver Star is (in theory at least) only awarded for actions in combat.
Intothatdarkness01:48, 27 May 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Conflict between content and Infobox?
The page states "The Silver Star Medal is awarded for gallantry, so long as the action does not justify the award of one of the next higher valor awards: the Distinguished Service Cross, the Navy Cross, the Air Force Cross, or the Coast Guard Cross." however the Infobox states that the next higher medals are the Distinguished Service Medal (Army), Navy Distinguished Service Medal, Distinguished Service Medal (Air and Space Forces) and Coast Guard Distinguished Service Medal. I assume that this conflict arises because the Silver Star is a valor award, while the various Distinguished Service Medals are meritorious service awards. How should this conflict/confusion be addressed?
Mztourist (
talk)
04:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Possibly with an asterisk by the non-valor awards linked to a note explaining the difference. It's an order of precedence thing, and mixing valor and service awards as is often done can be confusing to non-specialists.
Intothatdarkness13:01, 25 May 2023 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Orders, decorations, and medals, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
orders, decorations, and
medals on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Orders, decorations, and medalsWikipedia:WikiProject Orders, decorations, and medalsTemplate:WikiProject Orders, decorations, and medalsOrders, decorations, and medals articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is related to the Pritzker Military Museum & Library WikiProject. Please copy assessments of the article from the most major WikiProject template to this one as needed.Pritzker Military LibraryWikipedia:GLAM/PritzkerTemplate:WikiProject Pritzker-GLAMPritzker Military Library-related articles
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support. Helps clarify at what this article is about. Shorter form "Silver/Bronze Star" is may be recognizable to Americans familiar with military culture, but not outside. Feels a bit slangy/jargony. A helpful improvement for clarity, consistency and is its official name too.
Walrasiad (
talk)
22:36, 19 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Support On the first page of Google Scholar results for Silver Star, only 2 were for the medal
[1]. Others included
silver nanoparticle,
Silver Star, Montana, a Chinese film journal, etc. From a global perspective, I'm skeptical that this is the primary topic in reliable sources. (
t ·
c) buidhe04:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose, and retain at current title. It seems to me there are three aspects to this - (1) is it primary topic for Silver Star, (2) is Silver Star the more common name for it than Silver Star Medal (or medal), and (3) If we include Medal, how should it be capitalised? Now on (1), I've checked the page views,
[2] for some of the most likely entries at
Silver Star (disambiguation) and this one dwarfs any other by a factor of 10, with the lion's share across all. So it looks like it is primary topic. Secondly, as I mentioned below, an ngram
[3] shows that when one compares awarded a silver star vs awarded a silver star medal, which should exclude most other meanings, the former massively outranks the latter, even taking into account that matches for SS are also matches for SSM. So on (1) and (2) my first choice, and I believe the correct action, is to keep the article exactly where it is. If, for whatever reason, the closer here does nonetheless decide that a move is necessary for whatever reason, I think
Silver Star (medal) and
Silver Star medal would be preferable, there isn't much evidence it's a proper name.
This ngram shows a bit of a lead for the capitalised version, but not the "substantial majority" required by
MOS:CAPS; and as recently as 2009, the Silver Star medal variant was in the lead. Cheers —
Amakuru (
talk)
12:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Discussion
@
Extorc and
ExtorcDev: please could I request a relist on this one? I think there's more analysis needed to figure out the true usage here, and in particular I don't think it's at all clear that "Silver Star Medal" is a proper name, including the "Medal" part. See
[4] for example, showing that "awarded a silver star" is hugely more common than "awarded a silver star medal", in any capitalisation. I think either
Silver Star medal or
Silver Star (medal) might be better titles, and would like to discuss that with the participants. Thanks —
Amakuru (
talk)
12:01, 26 May 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Amakuru Alright, I will do that. Also, in future if you see any activity from the ExtorcDev account, you can address it to the Extorc account. This one is only used when I wish to test my scripts.
ExtorcDev (
talk)
12:29, 26 May 2023 (UTC)reply
For what it's worth, the Department of Defense uses the term
Silver Star. There's no qualifier or 'medal' seen anywhere.
Intothatdarkness 01:39, 27 May 2023 (UTC) (adding) The most recent version of Title 10, USC (the main authorizing document for the military in the United States) also refers to it as the Silver Star
here. That same link does mention the Bronze Star Medal, but that could be because there are TWO varieties of the Bronze Star...the standard BSM which can be awarded for general conduct and the BSM with V device indicating it was awarded for Valor (actions in combat). The Silver Star is (in theory at least) only awarded for actions in combat.
Intothatdarkness01:48, 27 May 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Conflict between content and Infobox?
The page states "The Silver Star Medal is awarded for gallantry, so long as the action does not justify the award of one of the next higher valor awards: the Distinguished Service Cross, the Navy Cross, the Air Force Cross, or the Coast Guard Cross." however the Infobox states that the next higher medals are the Distinguished Service Medal (Army), Navy Distinguished Service Medal, Distinguished Service Medal (Air and Space Forces) and Coast Guard Distinguished Service Medal. I assume that this conflict arises because the Silver Star is a valor award, while the various Distinguished Service Medals are meritorious service awards. How should this conflict/confusion be addressed?
Mztourist (
talk)
04:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Possibly with an asterisk by the non-valor awards linked to a note explaining the difference. It's an order of precedence thing, and mixing valor and service awards as is often done can be confusing to non-specialists.
Intothatdarkness13:01, 25 May 2023 (UTC)reply