This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
http://news.softpedia.com/news/mit-creates-untraceable-anonymous-messaging-system-called-vuvuzela-497537.shtml • Sbmeirow • Talk • 14:09, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
In order for this article's history section to stay on topic, I think it should focus on the history of the Signal apps and not stray off topic by discussing the history of its developers or its components. Other messaging apps' adoption of the Signal Protocol is discussed in detail in its own section in the Signal Protocol article, and the collaboration of Open Whisper Systems with tech companies to integrate the Signal Protocol into their messaging apps is discussed in the Open Whisper Systems article. In order to stay on topic, it would be better to mention other messaging apps' adoption of the Signal Protocol in the section of this article that is dedicated to the Signal Protocol. -- Dodi 8238 ( talk) 09:30, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
The referenced article https://theintercept.com/2016/06/22/battle-of-the-secure-messaging-apps-how-signal-beats-whatsapp/ takes time to read and will soon be out of date, but provides valuable information including that WhatsApp has Signal baked in but also has a critical security hole in automatic unencrypted cloud backups.
It would be helpful for readers to see at a glance how they can choose among app options to trade off strong privacy with interoperability with existing user bases. Having not yet researched other end-to-end encrypted messaging apps I'm not sure whether this would belong on the Signal page or somewhere on its own.
Eecharlie ( talk) 05:10, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Signal compile allways many proprietary software in the source code, example: the gms:play-services-gcm, the gms:play-services-maps and the gms:play-services-places. [1] but I have found no way to insert this aspect into the article. The cleaner says the source code is not a primary source...
Where is a journalist who has the source code read again? -- 46.89.140.83 ( talk) 04:23, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
The page claims that Signal will work without play services. This is not correct. The app will not run without it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.45.186 ( talk) 18:52, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
The [±] symbol to update the version information has vanished? Why/How can I update it now? HerrHartmuth ( talk) 07:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Signal is currently available in Iran, but due to Google's limitations it is not possible to receive notifications. AmirHossein Marjani ( talk) 09:22, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
I'm sorry if I edit this wrong, I don't know how to do this right on mobile.
I'll go straight to the point. I've been going down the rabbit hole of crypto security and I found something disturbing in a couple of articles, and if what they claim is true, then this should absolutely be present in Wikipedia to alert users. I've done some very basic research and it seems legit so far.
Also, I'm well aware this article isn't politically neutral, but that's besides the point, I'm not posting this as a political act against a government or a party, but rather as a concerned person about authoritarianism. It's very suspicious to say the least that it is the government that funds something that's supposed to protect you from the government.
Also I don't know how to sign from mobile so feel free to add it yourself lol, sorry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.136.243.62 ( talk) 06:46, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:00, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
Elon Musk tweeted about this app which tweet led to a massive number of signups for the alternative app to WhatsApp. Source Rizosome ( talk) 19:37, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
See WP:NOTNEWS. If this starts being covered by other outlets and has lasting significance, we can add it then. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 16:03, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Chetsford, while I appreciate your recent addition, I feel it may be misleading and approaches an NPOV violation. Any application that offers truly strong encryption will be useful for anyone seeking not to have their messages traced. That's why many journalists and politicians use Signal, and it's why (apparently) many bad actors also use it. I would recommend integrating the content into another section or counterbalancing with sources like the following, which place Signal's recent rise in popularity in the context of recent changes to WhatsApp (Signal is more popular now not just because Parler was shut down, but also because WhatsApp just changed its software) and offer more historical context. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 07:25, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Chetsford, I looked at your | contribution and I see that many of your sources do not match the text you added. At best, there is a topical resemblance of Wiki text with the source content. At worst, the provided source directly contradicts the Wiki text. Anton.bersh ( talk) 13:04, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Should the following be included (a) in the lead, (b) in the body, (c) removed from the article entirely? Chetsford ( talk) 15:45, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Use by far right, white nationalists, terrorists
The Signal app has been used for organizing by the far right, [1] [2] [3] militias [2] and white nationalists, [4] including by planners of the Unite the Right II rally in 2018. [5] In January 2021, downloads of Signal increased after Amazon, Apple and Google deplatformed the extremist social networking site Parler [6] with Vox's Rani Molla writing that it was possible "Signal’s most recent surge has been propped up by protesters — this time those on the right". [7] The Signal Foundation has not provided information about how or if it moderates messages being exchanged by the far right and QAnon conspiracists. [1] [8] According to CNN, Signal's security can offer "safe haven to a terrorist in Syria and the person in the United States he's trying to recruit to commit an act of mass murder" while the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reports Signal is being used by "tech-savvy criminals". [9] [10] In 2016, authorities in India arrested members of a suspected ISIS-affiliated terrorist cell that had used the Signal app to communicate. [11]
Chetsford ( talk) 15:45, 13 January 2021 (UTC); edited 20:46, 13 January 2021 (UTC) (sorry, one portion and source [Vox] was cut-off in the original copy, above, I've updated it as of this datestamp)
References
"The use of Signal and Telegram is really dangerous. They appear to be at this moment welcoming hateful users who've been kicked off other platforms or been made to feel unwelcome on other platforms," says Harry Fernandez, a director at Change the Terms, a non-profit tracking online hate speech. "And it's dangerous that they don't appear to have any infrastructure in place to police these platforms."
Both Signal and Telegram attributed the recent download surge to new users fleeing WhatsApp, a chief competitor that recently made changes to its privacy settings. This undoubtedly drew in some users but is, at most, only part of the story. "I'm really skeptical," says Will Partin, an analyst at Data & Society, an internet research outfit who monitors right-wing hate speech online. He sees a "PR crisis" brewing for the two apps as conservative groups take hold there—and the companies say nothing publicly about the influx. Or about intentions to turn away the new users.
In the days since rioters stormed Capitol Hill, fringe groups like armed militias, QAnon conspiracy theorists and far-right supporters of President Trump have vowed to continue their fight in hundreds of conversations on a range of internet platforms. Some of the organizers have moved to encrypted messaging apps like Telegram and Signal, which cannot be as easily monitored as social media platforms.
Telegram and Signal are far more stable and secure and could prove more enduring homes and recruitment stations for far-right groups.
This year, Kessler and his fellow white nationalist co-organizers switched much of their rally planning throughout the summer to private groups on Facebook Messenger and the encrypted texting app Signal...
A year later, in the runup to an ultimately barely attended sequel to Unite the Right in D.C., organizers appeared to stay off the platform, opting instead to discuss logistics over Facebook Messenger and the encrypted texting app Signal.
The jump in new Signal downloads also followed the riots in Washington D.C. and moves by Amazon (AMZN), Apple (AAPL) and Google (GOOGL) to cut ties with Parler, the social networking service favored by members of the far-right.
Apps like Signal and Telegram have not said if or how they would moderate content relating to QAnon or other extremist groups since experiencing a rise in traffic in recent days.
The Signal app encrypts phone calls. Wickr sends self-destructing messages ... The result? The same technology that keeps a conversation private between you and a family member also gives a safe haven to a terrorist in Syria and the person in the United States he's trying to recruit to commit an act of mass murder.
A group of terrorist suspects in India said to be inspired by Islamic State wanted to emulate US whistleblower Edward Snowden and use encrypted communication tool Signal to stay in touch, it was revealed in interrogation by the National Investigation Agency (NIA).
Cohn-Gordon-2016
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The following source, from the NYT, came out after this RfC started, and may be of interest to participants. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 23:11, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
-- Guy Macon ( talk) 02:46, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
There is a wave of misinformation about Signal claiming that it is a government op with backdoor, per:
There appear to be fragments of facts that have been strung together to suggest that Signal is vulnerable. The vulnerability referred to apparently relates to iPhones with “partial AFU,” which stands for “after first unlock.” I don't have an iPhone, but I suppose that is a persistent unlocked state. In any event, it would appear that it was the iPhone that was hacked, not the Signal app itself. Naturally, messages need to be decrypted before they can be displayed. It is at that point, after decryption, that the messages are vulnerable to hacking on a mobile phone that has been hacked. I know Wikipedia is not Reddit, but Wikipedia is the de-facto reference. I am sure that this article can be improved if this alleged vulnerability is addressed. I am sure that there are others who are more qualified than I am to make such edits.
Enquire (
talk) 22:58, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Two points of contention. (1) The very first sentence in the intro for this article says that this is a cross-platform centralized software... Yet the description contains three paragraphs, and none of them mention anything about a centralized topology, go between, central or middling process, or centralized server for that matter! (2) Further, the opening intro mentions repeatedly that the software communicates one to one or peer-to-peer or P2P - this all indicates to me that the word centralized should be removed from the first sentence. Is anyone in agreement?? -From Peter {a.k.a. Vid2vid ( talk | contribs)} 23:38, 8 April 2021 (UTC).
There also seem to be 2 dates listed. 24.68.171.129 ( talk) 03:13, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
"In 2022 it was reported some Dutch government officials adopted Signal, sparking some controversy."
Can someone who reads Dutch elaborate on this? As is, it's quite uninformative. Birdsinthewindow ( talk) 00:31, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
Under the heading "Use by criminals", there is a sentence that begins "Far right right-wing militias". On the face of it, it looks like an accidental tautology, and therefore it should be edited.
Another problem with that phrasing is, it sounds as if the author was trying to influence the reader. I googled the phrase "Far right right-wing militias", and I did not find it to be a "common phrasing".
Maybe "right-wing militias", or "far right militias" would be more appropriate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwrede ( talk • contribs) 20:25, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
I agree with Legowerewolf's suggestion. Birdsinthewindow ( talk) 00:30, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
http://news.softpedia.com/news/mit-creates-untraceable-anonymous-messaging-system-called-vuvuzela-497537.shtml • Sbmeirow • Talk • 14:09, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
In order for this article's history section to stay on topic, I think it should focus on the history of the Signal apps and not stray off topic by discussing the history of its developers or its components. Other messaging apps' adoption of the Signal Protocol is discussed in detail in its own section in the Signal Protocol article, and the collaboration of Open Whisper Systems with tech companies to integrate the Signal Protocol into their messaging apps is discussed in the Open Whisper Systems article. In order to stay on topic, it would be better to mention other messaging apps' adoption of the Signal Protocol in the section of this article that is dedicated to the Signal Protocol. -- Dodi 8238 ( talk) 09:30, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
The referenced article https://theintercept.com/2016/06/22/battle-of-the-secure-messaging-apps-how-signal-beats-whatsapp/ takes time to read and will soon be out of date, but provides valuable information including that WhatsApp has Signal baked in but also has a critical security hole in automatic unencrypted cloud backups.
It would be helpful for readers to see at a glance how they can choose among app options to trade off strong privacy with interoperability with existing user bases. Having not yet researched other end-to-end encrypted messaging apps I'm not sure whether this would belong on the Signal page or somewhere on its own.
Eecharlie ( talk) 05:10, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Signal compile allways many proprietary software in the source code, example: the gms:play-services-gcm, the gms:play-services-maps and the gms:play-services-places. [1] but I have found no way to insert this aspect into the article. The cleaner says the source code is not a primary source...
Where is a journalist who has the source code read again? -- 46.89.140.83 ( talk) 04:23, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
The page claims that Signal will work without play services. This is not correct. The app will not run without it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.45.186 ( talk) 18:52, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
The [±] symbol to update the version information has vanished? Why/How can I update it now? HerrHartmuth ( talk) 07:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Signal is currently available in Iran, but due to Google's limitations it is not possible to receive notifications. AmirHossein Marjani ( talk) 09:22, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
I'm sorry if I edit this wrong, I don't know how to do this right on mobile.
I'll go straight to the point. I've been going down the rabbit hole of crypto security and I found something disturbing in a couple of articles, and if what they claim is true, then this should absolutely be present in Wikipedia to alert users. I've done some very basic research and it seems legit so far.
Also, I'm well aware this article isn't politically neutral, but that's besides the point, I'm not posting this as a political act against a government or a party, but rather as a concerned person about authoritarianism. It's very suspicious to say the least that it is the government that funds something that's supposed to protect you from the government.
Also I don't know how to sign from mobile so feel free to add it yourself lol, sorry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.136.243.62 ( talk) 06:46, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:00, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
Elon Musk tweeted about this app which tweet led to a massive number of signups for the alternative app to WhatsApp. Source Rizosome ( talk) 19:37, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
See WP:NOTNEWS. If this starts being covered by other outlets and has lasting significance, we can add it then. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 16:03, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Chetsford, while I appreciate your recent addition, I feel it may be misleading and approaches an NPOV violation. Any application that offers truly strong encryption will be useful for anyone seeking not to have their messages traced. That's why many journalists and politicians use Signal, and it's why (apparently) many bad actors also use it. I would recommend integrating the content into another section or counterbalancing with sources like the following, which place Signal's recent rise in popularity in the context of recent changes to WhatsApp (Signal is more popular now not just because Parler was shut down, but also because WhatsApp just changed its software) and offer more historical context. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 07:25, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Chetsford, I looked at your | contribution and I see that many of your sources do not match the text you added. At best, there is a topical resemblance of Wiki text with the source content. At worst, the provided source directly contradicts the Wiki text. Anton.bersh ( talk) 13:04, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Should the following be included (a) in the lead, (b) in the body, (c) removed from the article entirely? Chetsford ( talk) 15:45, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Use by far right, white nationalists, terrorists
The Signal app has been used for organizing by the far right, [1] [2] [3] militias [2] and white nationalists, [4] including by planners of the Unite the Right II rally in 2018. [5] In January 2021, downloads of Signal increased after Amazon, Apple and Google deplatformed the extremist social networking site Parler [6] with Vox's Rani Molla writing that it was possible "Signal’s most recent surge has been propped up by protesters — this time those on the right". [7] The Signal Foundation has not provided information about how or if it moderates messages being exchanged by the far right and QAnon conspiracists. [1] [8] According to CNN, Signal's security can offer "safe haven to a terrorist in Syria and the person in the United States he's trying to recruit to commit an act of mass murder" while the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reports Signal is being used by "tech-savvy criminals". [9] [10] In 2016, authorities in India arrested members of a suspected ISIS-affiliated terrorist cell that had used the Signal app to communicate. [11]
Chetsford ( talk) 15:45, 13 January 2021 (UTC); edited 20:46, 13 January 2021 (UTC) (sorry, one portion and source [Vox] was cut-off in the original copy, above, I've updated it as of this datestamp)
References
"The use of Signal and Telegram is really dangerous. They appear to be at this moment welcoming hateful users who've been kicked off other platforms or been made to feel unwelcome on other platforms," says Harry Fernandez, a director at Change the Terms, a non-profit tracking online hate speech. "And it's dangerous that they don't appear to have any infrastructure in place to police these platforms."
Both Signal and Telegram attributed the recent download surge to new users fleeing WhatsApp, a chief competitor that recently made changes to its privacy settings. This undoubtedly drew in some users but is, at most, only part of the story. "I'm really skeptical," says Will Partin, an analyst at Data & Society, an internet research outfit who monitors right-wing hate speech online. He sees a "PR crisis" brewing for the two apps as conservative groups take hold there—and the companies say nothing publicly about the influx. Or about intentions to turn away the new users.
In the days since rioters stormed Capitol Hill, fringe groups like armed militias, QAnon conspiracy theorists and far-right supporters of President Trump have vowed to continue their fight in hundreds of conversations on a range of internet platforms. Some of the organizers have moved to encrypted messaging apps like Telegram and Signal, which cannot be as easily monitored as social media platforms.
Telegram and Signal are far more stable and secure and could prove more enduring homes and recruitment stations for far-right groups.
This year, Kessler and his fellow white nationalist co-organizers switched much of their rally planning throughout the summer to private groups on Facebook Messenger and the encrypted texting app Signal...
A year later, in the runup to an ultimately barely attended sequel to Unite the Right in D.C., organizers appeared to stay off the platform, opting instead to discuss logistics over Facebook Messenger and the encrypted texting app Signal.
The jump in new Signal downloads also followed the riots in Washington D.C. and moves by Amazon (AMZN), Apple (AAPL) and Google (GOOGL) to cut ties with Parler, the social networking service favored by members of the far-right.
Apps like Signal and Telegram have not said if or how they would moderate content relating to QAnon or other extremist groups since experiencing a rise in traffic in recent days.
The Signal app encrypts phone calls. Wickr sends self-destructing messages ... The result? The same technology that keeps a conversation private between you and a family member also gives a safe haven to a terrorist in Syria and the person in the United States he's trying to recruit to commit an act of mass murder.
A group of terrorist suspects in India said to be inspired by Islamic State wanted to emulate US whistleblower Edward Snowden and use encrypted communication tool Signal to stay in touch, it was revealed in interrogation by the National Investigation Agency (NIA).
Cohn-Gordon-2016
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The following source, from the NYT, came out after this RfC started, and may be of interest to participants. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 23:11, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
-- Guy Macon ( talk) 02:46, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
There is a wave of misinformation about Signal claiming that it is a government op with backdoor, per:
There appear to be fragments of facts that have been strung together to suggest that Signal is vulnerable. The vulnerability referred to apparently relates to iPhones with “partial AFU,” which stands for “after first unlock.” I don't have an iPhone, but I suppose that is a persistent unlocked state. In any event, it would appear that it was the iPhone that was hacked, not the Signal app itself. Naturally, messages need to be decrypted before they can be displayed. It is at that point, after decryption, that the messages are vulnerable to hacking on a mobile phone that has been hacked. I know Wikipedia is not Reddit, but Wikipedia is the de-facto reference. I am sure that this article can be improved if this alleged vulnerability is addressed. I am sure that there are others who are more qualified than I am to make such edits.
Enquire (
talk) 22:58, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Two points of contention. (1) The very first sentence in the intro for this article says that this is a cross-platform centralized software... Yet the description contains three paragraphs, and none of them mention anything about a centralized topology, go between, central or middling process, or centralized server for that matter! (2) Further, the opening intro mentions repeatedly that the software communicates one to one or peer-to-peer or P2P - this all indicates to me that the word centralized should be removed from the first sentence. Is anyone in agreement?? -From Peter {a.k.a. Vid2vid ( talk | contribs)} 23:38, 8 April 2021 (UTC).
There also seem to be 2 dates listed. 24.68.171.129 ( talk) 03:13, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
"In 2022 it was reported some Dutch government officials adopted Signal, sparking some controversy."
Can someone who reads Dutch elaborate on this? As is, it's quite uninformative. Birdsinthewindow ( talk) 00:31, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
Under the heading "Use by criminals", there is a sentence that begins "Far right right-wing militias". On the face of it, it looks like an accidental tautology, and therefore it should be edited.
Another problem with that phrasing is, it sounds as if the author was trying to influence the reader. I googled the phrase "Far right right-wing militias", and I did not find it to be a "common phrasing".
Maybe "right-wing militias", or "far right militias" would be more appropriate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwrede ( talk • contribs) 20:25, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
I agree with Legowerewolf's suggestion. Birdsinthewindow ( talk) 00:30, 30 December 2022 (UTC)