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There's a short article in the July issue of Trains which refers to this locomotive as the "SC-44". I haven't seen this usage anywhere else yet. If that's in fact the designation, then this article should move to Siemens SC-44 (see e.g. Siemens ACS-64). Mackensen (talk) 17:08, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
This image appears to be a copyright violation from the Railway Gazette; we can't use it. Mackensen (talk) 13:45, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Let's talk about this image. First, I'm sorry to say that I don't think it's very good. The angle is strange, the lighting is poor. The WSDOT markings are barely visible. If it was all we had then that would be one thing, but the image it replaced, File:IDTX SC-44 4601 (27231590613).jpg, is vastly superior, although it we already have a similar image in the infobox. Second, it's a PNG instead of a JPG, with the EXIF data stripped out. This makes me wonder about its provenance, especially given the repeated attempts to add unfree images to this article over the last few days. I think we're better off with the second IDOT image for now, until someone (maybe even WSDOT) contributes a clear shot from the Pacific Northwest. Others? Mackensen (talk) 17:39, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
There is a relevant discussion at Commons:Deletion requests/File:WSDOT 1400 being transported on the Southwest Chief, March 2017.png regarding this image. @ Slenderman7676: your comments? Mackensen (talk) 17:32, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
The text "with onboard energy storage" in: In response to a 2013 RFI from Metro-North Railroad, Siemens indicated the possibility of producing a dual-mode variant of the Charger with onboard energy storage for use by Metro-North and Long Island Rail Road. is useless, every dual-mode loc with 3rd has onboard energy storage, that can they use to travel with max 5 mph between the gaps in 3rd rail system... SRich ( talk) 18:02, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians! I was wondering if anyone had or could locate an image of one of the new MARC Chargers. I will also post this message on Talk:MARC Train. I would do it, but while I have experience editing articles, I don't know anything about adding images, especially when it comes to copyright, etc. Thanks! Daybeers ( talk) 22:04, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
The latest Passenger Train Journal indicates that the Brightline units are designated SCB-40, not SC-44. Railway Age made a similar report in June: [2]. It's not clear to me what differences, if any, exist between the two. The old datasheets had the same figures. Mackensen (talk) 22:28, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
Various editors are claiming 20 additional units for the Pacific Surfliner, to be delivered 2018-2020, on top of the existing 22 units (6 original + 14 ordered in 2015 + 2 ordered in 2016). I do not believe this is correct. Per this Caltrans press release, the latter 14+2 units are to be produced beginning in 2018. Per this article, they are specifically for the Surfliner. Those 14+2 will be the ones displacing the F59s to Metra - not an additional order. Pi.1415926535 ( talk) 23:48, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
2111 entered testing on Pacific Surfliner #763 in a F59-Cab-Coach-Coach-Cafe-Superliner-Pacific Business Class-Charger layout. I saw it this morning. 2600:8802:4601:9400:5889:BA57:ECD9:CAC1 ( talk) 01:13, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
@ Will74205: The 2017 derailment has absolutely no connection to the locomotive being a Charger. It being the first Charger to be wrecked is not a significant event in service history like first service or retirement is. (In particular, there is no reason this article should cover details of the accident like the cause.) There is no reason to have updates on individual locomotives in an article that covers hundreds of them. Pi.1415926535 ( talk) 23:58, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
There was a similar discussion at Talk:EMD_F40PH#Accidents and incidents, where I took largely the same line as Pi. Note that in the article on the EMD SDP40F, where the locomotive's design was a contributing factor in a dozen derailments, this is discussed as prose and not broken out into a list of incidents. Admittedly I don't believe any of those derailments resulted in the death of a passenger. Mackensen (talk) 17:05, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
What are the reasons why the Siemens Chargers replaced the F59PHIs for Amtrak's Cascade and Pacific Surfliner? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clrichey ( talk • contribs) 05:33, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Simple. Cleaner, faster, and more fuel-efficient. It’s also built to modern emission tier regulations. The F59s are already 20 years old. Thankfully Metra has chosen to buy the units. Davidng913 ( talk) 21:32, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
The F59s aren't that old, are they? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clrichey ( talk • contribs) 04:22, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
“The top speed in service is 125 mph (201 km/h), but MARC is the only operator currently operating the Charger at that speed.”
A commuter railway operating trains at 125 mph? That’s an insanely fast speed for a frequent-stop service in urban/suburban areas…and most trains in the US operate at less than 100 mph.
Is there a reliable source for the MARC speed? The provided source doesn’t actually back up the 125 mph claim. User2346 ( talk) 10:33, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
I’m going to cut that part of the article. In the (very likely) event of a reliable source cropping up that backs the 125mph claim it can be reverted. User2346 ( talk) 16:30, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 15:53, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
Although it seems likely the new locos will be based on the Charger, none of the citations specify the model of the new locomotives. Doesn't seem like it belongs on the Charger page? MetalJulia ( talk) 06:48, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
“ |developed from = Vectron (locomotive)
|variants with their own articles = Siemens ACS-64 ”
The ACS-64 has been in-service before the Charger (hints the order) if you know where to include the information previously mentioned above please do and if possible, let me know. I don’t know where is the right place.
(PS: I planned on including the previously mentioned above in its respective article; Again, I don’t know where is the right place.)
-- Sroth0616 ( talk) 21:49, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
This article currently states:
The Auxiliary Power Vehicle will contain a pantograph, transformers and a powered truck. In electrified territory, the APV will draw power from overhead lines, which will be fed to the powered truck and the traction motors in the locomotive. Outside of electrified territory, the ALC-42E will function like a typical diesel–electric locomotive. This combination will reduce the use of Amtrak's existing Siemens ACS-64 electric locomotives to just long-distance trains that continue off the Northeast Corridor. [1]
This text is not supported by its citation.
Amtrak currently runs three types of services on the Northeast Corridor:
Trains in the second category currently are powered by ACS-64s through New York and change engines at New Haven, Philadelphia, or DC. Confusingly, some trains named Northeast Regional fall into the third category, not the second, because they continue to Springfield, MA or various places in Virginia — but neither do all Northeast Regionals fall into the third category.
The current text in the article suggests the ALC-42s will replace the use of ACS-64s for trains of the second category, but not the third.
However, the cited report discusses replacing the ACS as follows (pages 126-7):
Twenty-six (26) catenary-diesel dual-power trainsets, consisting of an ALC-42E locomotive and six passenger cars, for use on the Downeaster, Vermonter, Pennsylvanian, Palmetto, Carolinian and Keystone Service. The passenger car closest to the locomotive will be an Auxiliary Power Vehicle (APV)…Twenty-four (24) catenary-diesel dual-power trainsets (with a short term option to acquire eight more), consisting of an ALC-42E locomotive and eight passenger cars, for use on Northeast Regional including through trains to Virginia and Springfield, Massachusetts. These trainsets will also include an APV for use on the NEC.
That quote implies that Amtrak does plan to use new ALC-42s at least to replace the ACS-64s currently used for trains of the third category, but leaves ambiguous whether the trains of the second category will be replaced as well. However, the source continues (page 132):
ACS-64 Electric Locomotives Amtrak’s purchase of ICTs will reduce the number of ACS-64 electric locomotives required for daily revenue service…The exact quantities of units displaced and the timing have not yet been determined.
Note the use of the word "reduce" (not "eliminate")! The most parsimonious explanation I see for this report is that Amtrak continues to plan to use the ACS-64s on trains of the second category. Note that this interpretation of the source is the opposite of the current claim in the article.
@ RickyCourtney:, you and I appear to have begun an WP:EDITWAR over whether this is an accurate interpretation of the report. If you disagree with my intepretation, please explain here why, or find a reliable source supporting the article text as currently constituted. Thanks, Bernanke's Crossbow ( talk) 07:33, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
So the ALC-42 locomotives that Amtrak purchased are clearly having problems. Back in February 2022, the inaugural run had to be led by a P42 ( https://railfan.com/amtraks-alc-42-debut-mired-by-technical-troubles/). Now fast forward to January 2023, they are still having problems in terms of winter weather. Per the Siemens chairperson, the locomotives were losing power in "unusually extreme circumstances where the locomotive experiences drastic changes in temperature" ( https://railfan.com/amtraks-new-long-distance-chargers-continue-to-struggle/).
Right now, I notice no parts of this page ever mentions any technical problems. I'm not sure what teh consensus is on that, but seeing that there are still issues literally after a year, I'm not sure if that makes it any notable. I would appreciate any opinions regarding whether or not technical issues are considered trivial or semi-important. For instance, the HSP-46 page mentions their technical problems, but neither the F125 nor the Charger pages mentions this.
-- Davidng913 ( talk) 17:53, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
Would it make sense to have a table to explicitly compare the different variants to make it clear what the differences are? The article currently just casually mentions it but doesn’t lay out it in much detail. — lensovet– talk – 17:46, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
I thought Metro-North would be receiving SC-44 units for replacing the West of Hudson Fleet. Or at least they were considering it. The full text from the Port Jervis Line and MNCR rolling stock pages: " In July 2018, Metro-North Rail Commuter Council Vice Chairman Orrin Getz announced the agency's intention to purchase 15 new Siemens Charger SC-44 locomotives to replace the current locomotive fleet for the Port Jervis Line."
Is there a reason why this info is not being included on this page? Davidng913 ( talk) 03:16, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Siemens Charger article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
There's a short article in the July issue of Trains which refers to this locomotive as the "SC-44". I haven't seen this usage anywhere else yet. If that's in fact the designation, then this article should move to Siemens SC-44 (see e.g. Siemens ACS-64). Mackensen (talk) 17:08, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
This image appears to be a copyright violation from the Railway Gazette; we can't use it. Mackensen (talk) 13:45, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Let's talk about this image. First, I'm sorry to say that I don't think it's very good. The angle is strange, the lighting is poor. The WSDOT markings are barely visible. If it was all we had then that would be one thing, but the image it replaced, File:IDTX SC-44 4601 (27231590613).jpg, is vastly superior, although it we already have a similar image in the infobox. Second, it's a PNG instead of a JPG, with the EXIF data stripped out. This makes me wonder about its provenance, especially given the repeated attempts to add unfree images to this article over the last few days. I think we're better off with the second IDOT image for now, until someone (maybe even WSDOT) contributes a clear shot from the Pacific Northwest. Others? Mackensen (talk) 17:39, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
There is a relevant discussion at Commons:Deletion requests/File:WSDOT 1400 being transported on the Southwest Chief, March 2017.png regarding this image. @ Slenderman7676: your comments? Mackensen (talk) 17:32, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
The text "with onboard energy storage" in: In response to a 2013 RFI from Metro-North Railroad, Siemens indicated the possibility of producing a dual-mode variant of the Charger with onboard energy storage for use by Metro-North and Long Island Rail Road. is useless, every dual-mode loc with 3rd has onboard energy storage, that can they use to travel with max 5 mph between the gaps in 3rd rail system... SRich ( talk) 18:02, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians! I was wondering if anyone had or could locate an image of one of the new MARC Chargers. I will also post this message on Talk:MARC Train. I would do it, but while I have experience editing articles, I don't know anything about adding images, especially when it comes to copyright, etc. Thanks! Daybeers ( talk) 22:04, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
The latest Passenger Train Journal indicates that the Brightline units are designated SCB-40, not SC-44. Railway Age made a similar report in June: [2]. It's not clear to me what differences, if any, exist between the two. The old datasheets had the same figures. Mackensen (talk) 22:28, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
Various editors are claiming 20 additional units for the Pacific Surfliner, to be delivered 2018-2020, on top of the existing 22 units (6 original + 14 ordered in 2015 + 2 ordered in 2016). I do not believe this is correct. Per this Caltrans press release, the latter 14+2 units are to be produced beginning in 2018. Per this article, they are specifically for the Surfliner. Those 14+2 will be the ones displacing the F59s to Metra - not an additional order. Pi.1415926535 ( talk) 23:48, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
2111 entered testing on Pacific Surfliner #763 in a F59-Cab-Coach-Coach-Cafe-Superliner-Pacific Business Class-Charger layout. I saw it this morning. 2600:8802:4601:9400:5889:BA57:ECD9:CAC1 ( talk) 01:13, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
@ Will74205: The 2017 derailment has absolutely no connection to the locomotive being a Charger. It being the first Charger to be wrecked is not a significant event in service history like first service or retirement is. (In particular, there is no reason this article should cover details of the accident like the cause.) There is no reason to have updates on individual locomotives in an article that covers hundreds of them. Pi.1415926535 ( talk) 23:58, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
There was a similar discussion at Talk:EMD_F40PH#Accidents and incidents, where I took largely the same line as Pi. Note that in the article on the EMD SDP40F, where the locomotive's design was a contributing factor in a dozen derailments, this is discussed as prose and not broken out into a list of incidents. Admittedly I don't believe any of those derailments resulted in the death of a passenger. Mackensen (talk) 17:05, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
What are the reasons why the Siemens Chargers replaced the F59PHIs for Amtrak's Cascade and Pacific Surfliner? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clrichey ( talk • contribs) 05:33, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Simple. Cleaner, faster, and more fuel-efficient. It’s also built to modern emission tier regulations. The F59s are already 20 years old. Thankfully Metra has chosen to buy the units. Davidng913 ( talk) 21:32, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
The F59s aren't that old, are they? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clrichey ( talk • contribs) 04:22, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
“The top speed in service is 125 mph (201 km/h), but MARC is the only operator currently operating the Charger at that speed.”
A commuter railway operating trains at 125 mph? That’s an insanely fast speed for a frequent-stop service in urban/suburban areas…and most trains in the US operate at less than 100 mph.
Is there a reliable source for the MARC speed? The provided source doesn’t actually back up the 125 mph claim. User2346 ( talk) 10:33, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
I’m going to cut that part of the article. In the (very likely) event of a reliable source cropping up that backs the 125mph claim it can be reverted. User2346 ( talk) 16:30, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 15:53, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
Although it seems likely the new locos will be based on the Charger, none of the citations specify the model of the new locomotives. Doesn't seem like it belongs on the Charger page? MetalJulia ( talk) 06:48, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
“ |developed from = Vectron (locomotive)
|variants with their own articles = Siemens ACS-64 ”
The ACS-64 has been in-service before the Charger (hints the order) if you know where to include the information previously mentioned above please do and if possible, let me know. I don’t know where is the right place.
(PS: I planned on including the previously mentioned above in its respective article; Again, I don’t know where is the right place.)
-- Sroth0616 ( talk) 21:49, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
This article currently states:
The Auxiliary Power Vehicle will contain a pantograph, transformers and a powered truck. In electrified territory, the APV will draw power from overhead lines, which will be fed to the powered truck and the traction motors in the locomotive. Outside of electrified territory, the ALC-42E will function like a typical diesel–electric locomotive. This combination will reduce the use of Amtrak's existing Siemens ACS-64 electric locomotives to just long-distance trains that continue off the Northeast Corridor. [1]
This text is not supported by its citation.
Amtrak currently runs three types of services on the Northeast Corridor:
Trains in the second category currently are powered by ACS-64s through New York and change engines at New Haven, Philadelphia, or DC. Confusingly, some trains named Northeast Regional fall into the third category, not the second, because they continue to Springfield, MA or various places in Virginia — but neither do all Northeast Regionals fall into the third category.
The current text in the article suggests the ALC-42s will replace the use of ACS-64s for trains of the second category, but not the third.
However, the cited report discusses replacing the ACS as follows (pages 126-7):
Twenty-six (26) catenary-diesel dual-power trainsets, consisting of an ALC-42E locomotive and six passenger cars, for use on the Downeaster, Vermonter, Pennsylvanian, Palmetto, Carolinian and Keystone Service. The passenger car closest to the locomotive will be an Auxiliary Power Vehicle (APV)…Twenty-four (24) catenary-diesel dual-power trainsets (with a short term option to acquire eight more), consisting of an ALC-42E locomotive and eight passenger cars, for use on Northeast Regional including through trains to Virginia and Springfield, Massachusetts. These trainsets will also include an APV for use on the NEC.
That quote implies that Amtrak does plan to use new ALC-42s at least to replace the ACS-64s currently used for trains of the third category, but leaves ambiguous whether the trains of the second category will be replaced as well. However, the source continues (page 132):
ACS-64 Electric Locomotives Amtrak’s purchase of ICTs will reduce the number of ACS-64 electric locomotives required for daily revenue service…The exact quantities of units displaced and the timing have not yet been determined.
Note the use of the word "reduce" (not "eliminate")! The most parsimonious explanation I see for this report is that Amtrak continues to plan to use the ACS-64s on trains of the second category. Note that this interpretation of the source is the opposite of the current claim in the article.
@ RickyCourtney:, you and I appear to have begun an WP:EDITWAR over whether this is an accurate interpretation of the report. If you disagree with my intepretation, please explain here why, or find a reliable source supporting the article text as currently constituted. Thanks, Bernanke's Crossbow ( talk) 07:33, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
So the ALC-42 locomotives that Amtrak purchased are clearly having problems. Back in February 2022, the inaugural run had to be led by a P42 ( https://railfan.com/amtraks-alc-42-debut-mired-by-technical-troubles/). Now fast forward to January 2023, they are still having problems in terms of winter weather. Per the Siemens chairperson, the locomotives were losing power in "unusually extreme circumstances where the locomotive experiences drastic changes in temperature" ( https://railfan.com/amtraks-new-long-distance-chargers-continue-to-struggle/).
Right now, I notice no parts of this page ever mentions any technical problems. I'm not sure what teh consensus is on that, but seeing that there are still issues literally after a year, I'm not sure if that makes it any notable. I would appreciate any opinions regarding whether or not technical issues are considered trivial or semi-important. For instance, the HSP-46 page mentions their technical problems, but neither the F125 nor the Charger pages mentions this.
-- Davidng913 ( talk) 17:53, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
Would it make sense to have a table to explicitly compare the different variants to make it clear what the differences are? The article currently just casually mentions it but doesn’t lay out it in much detail. — lensovet– talk – 17:46, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
I thought Metro-North would be receiving SC-44 units for replacing the West of Hudson Fleet. Or at least they were considering it. The full text from the Port Jervis Line and MNCR rolling stock pages: " In July 2018, Metro-North Rail Commuter Council Vice Chairman Orrin Getz announced the agency's intention to purchase 15 new Siemens Charger SC-44 locomotives to replace the current locomotive fleet for the Port Jervis Line."
Is there a reason why this info is not being included on this page? Davidng913 ( talk) 03:16, 5 July 2023 (UTC)