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The intro is very choppy and could use some work to more properly introduce the article. I'll try to get to it when I can. Mcorco2 ( talk) 08:51, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The way citations are made do not comply with wikipedia standards and most of the word put under the influences of the Arab period are anything but Arabic. The information is also not complete. 99.51.150.199 ( talk) 04:57, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I think content about Sicilian adverbs would be appropriate, most likely in the section on distinguishing features of Sicilian. Like other Southern Italian dialects, Sicilian avoids -mente adverbs, and this is novel for speakers of other romance languages. Some example adverbs would be appreciated. Note: I'm no expert on Sicilian, but I am finding no online information about adverbial construction in Sicilian, except that it doesn't use -mente. Example adverbs have been mostly adverbs of time and place, with only a couple of manner, such as those found here: Lingua Siciliana - Lesson 4.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bearsbearsbears ( talk • contribs) 16:28, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
How do you say "Good Luck" or "Blessings" "Good Fortune" in Sicilian?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.119.80.138 ( talk) 08:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
This article is quite chauviniste and its fully based on "Etnlogue" book. The sicilian language is part of "meridionali estremi"(= "southern languages") as the picture in the page shows. Dialleti merdionali estremi are: "sicilian", southern calabrian, southern Apulia language, and southern Campania language. Sayng "Dialetti meridionali estremi" is sicilian is like affirming England is UK. A completely non-sence —Preceding unsigned comment added by Firestorm81 ( talk • contribs) 10:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Don't know who has written this article, but I think it is of poor knowledge of the two languages sicilian and italian, or that one is a political motivated one. To translate fìmmina to donna is not wrong, but the most would translate it to femmina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.237.175.155 ( talk) 11:36, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Where is there any evidence for the claim that there is a significant number of Sicilian speakers in the United States? I live in one of the US cities cited as having a sizable Sicilian-speaking population. I never hear it anymore. I do not know of a single Bostonian who speaks Sicilian as their only native language, does not speak English better than Sicilian, does not prefer to speak English, or speaks Sicilian on any regular basis. My father has not spoken Sicilian for more than 30 minutes total in the past 30 years.
Sicilian immigration into the US ended about 100 years ago. There are no more than a handful of Sicilian immigrants who are still alive. Very few Americans are of 100% Sicilian ancestry. Little remains of the ancestral identity of most white Americans. Bostoner ( talk) 01:49, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
You are all 3 incorrect. There are many Americans including myself not only fluent in Sicilan, but speak it regularly. The language is preserved and taught through family association, church organizations and societies, as well as social and ethnic historical clubs. Cosand ( talk) 20:18, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
It's great that you speak Sicilian - please continue to do so, and preserve the language here in the US!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.113.121 ( talk) 01:42, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
User:Angelo.romano deleted my contribution with (rv - as you said in your comments, it's not even Sicilian, but just a mixture of Italian with Sicilian words. So, WP:TRIVIA quite inappropriate for this article.):
I think it should appear in the article because Sicilian rarely is seen on the screen. Even more, it represented Italy at the Oscars, so it gets projected abroad in Sicilian (locally subtitled). The dialogue tries to represent everyday Bagheria life. Hence characters talk Sicilian and Italian depending on context, just as real Sicilians did. For example, the school is in Italian, but the shepherds talk Sicilian.
It is also an example of the role of Sicilian in the media today. If you have an recent example of Sicilian given a higher profile, mention it. Otherwise Baaria should go in the article. The contrast between the Sicilian and the Italian dubbings also shows the degree of mutual intelligibility.
I'm not a expert in the language, but I think in the Sicilian version, they speak "full Sicilian" (and Italian and Sicilian-accented Italian and even English in some scenes), not "a mixture". It depends on which character in which context, just as in real 20th century Sicily. If you understood otherwise, please suggest a rephrasing. -- Error ( talk) 19:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Sicilian (an older version) is spoken sporadically in the Godfather series of Oscar winning movies. It is also spoken sporadically in the Inspector Montalbano TV series, much to my amusement. Australian of Sicilian descent (parents). 203.214.22.116 ( talk) 04:00, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
I added a "citation needed" in the section about the verb "to have" (link), where it reads: "Sicilian may use the verb jiri, to go, to signify the act of being about to do something. Italian does not use the verb andare, to go, in this way". As an Italian I can witness that Italian does indeed use the verb "avere" (to have) in equivalent constructs. For example as a teacher I might say "Andiamo a vedere ..." (we're going to see, literally: we go to see), or as an anchorman I could say "Andiamo ad ascoltare ..." (we're going to listen, literally: we go to listen).
-- Astabada ( talk) 15:42, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I wanted to point out this discrepancy. I made it also in the talk of Neapolitan language. Nothing personal towards Sicily , Sicilians and Sicilian language , that I love (I have supported from years that Sicilian must be declared an official language in Sicilian region) , but it appears to me as a discrimination unjust and unjustified ! Anno1443
I would like to refactor the references in this page to use the inline citation style of footnote. Currently it uses parenthitical references ( Hull, 1989) instead of inline references [1]. I will keep separate the Notes and the References since the page already does this. Does anybody have any objections to using this style of footnote? It is the prevailing method here and is easier (IMO) to maintain.
Sample Footnotes
Thanks, Dusty| 💬| You can help! 16:04, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
'DR, TR — Similarly, Sicilian has a unique pronunciation of the digraphs -tr- and -dr- as [tʃɹ] and [dʒɹ], not common to Italian. The sound of -tr- is exactly like that heard in English tree and the sound of -dr- exactly like the digraph heard in English dragon.
This is inconsistent. There is no ʃ in English TR, and no ʒ in English DR. Can someone clarify what the correct pronunciation is, please? Prof Wrong ( talk) 20:58, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
The sentence of ethnologue is unnecessary, because it’s impossible to think that sicilian and italian languages are the same thing. Between sicilian and italian there is not the same differences than between, for example, serbian, croatian and bosnian. The similarities between sicilian and italian concern just part of lexicon, because they are both romance languages and because they influence each other (for obvious social political reasons), but the grammar and overall the phonology is completely different. A stranger can think that czech and slovakian are the same language because they sound very similar; often a stranger cannot distinguish spanish and catalan (despite they are rather distinguishable), but even a stranger can realize that italian and sicilian are two different languages.
The IPA transliteration of the digraphs “tr”, “dr”, aren’t [tʃɹ], [dʒɹ]. In Sicilian they are typical affricate sounds, so [ʈ͡ʂ], [ɖ͡ʐ]. Listen the chart [
[1]] it’s exactly like that.
The digraph “ci” is not [ç], or rather in some (limited) areas the sound is like that but in majority of Sicily it’s [ʃ], like english “sh” but more faint. In english “sh” is actually [ʃʃ], always strong, instead in sicilian there is a [ʃ] written usually “ci”/“ce” and a [ʃʃ] just like in english, written usually “sci”/”sce”. Sicilian language unfortunately use the italian orthography because it hasn’t a standard peculiarly sicilian.
The trigraph “str” in not pronounced [ʃɹ] but simply [ʂː], it’s a unique sound, always strong. “Shr” in english is different, even if more similar than italian.
It’s true, “j” can be pronounced in different ways, but not like “jelly” in English. “Un jornu” is [uŋˈgjɔɾnu] not [unˈdʒoɾnu]. “Tri jorna” is [ʈ͡ʂigˈgjɔɾna], not [triˈɡjoɾna]; [tr] and [o] in sicilian don’t exist. The pronounce [ˈddʒɔɾnu] can existe just in “bon giornu” (good morning), but it is an italianism, in sicilian in fact the correct pronunciation should be [bbɔŋˈgjɔɾnu].
I’m Sicilian.--16:30, 23 May 2014 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
188.153.229.189 (
talk)
"The 2nd person singular (polite) of the Imperative does not follow the same pattern as the rest of the tense. The 2nd person singular and plural employ the Present Indicative in place of the Imperative, while the 2nd person singular (polite), because of its formality, employs the Present Subjunctive, which makes it less of a command and more of a request."
It might make sense, if it weren't for the fact that Romance 3rd person (=2nd person polite in most of those lgs) imperative is always derived from subjunctive, and it can be traced back to Latin (coniunctivus iussivus, prohibitivus & optativus, I believe). It's a case of a fancy explanation for a feature that was simply inherited. 176.221.120.207 ( talk) 20:51, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Apparently it is referred in the work Giarrizzo, Salvatore (1989). Dizionario Etimologico Siciliano. Herbita Editrice. Someone should check this source. 79.117.153.178 ( talk) 15:20, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
The article contains two statements about "Italic languages": "Sicilian has the oldest literary tradition of the Italic languages", and "Sicilian became the first of the Italic languages to be used as a literary language". Is this an erroneous substitution of the term "Italic" in place of "Romance"? Cicero, Virgil, and Horace all wrote in the first century BC, in Latin, an Italic language par excellence. Kotabatubara ( talk) 21:09, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
I'm confused by this section:
In particular, I can see either four or three "prehistoric groups": Sicels (or Siculi, or Siculians—who arrived between the second and first millennia BC), Sicani, Elymians, and Morgetes (four groups), versus "indigenous population", Phoenicians, and Greeks (three groups, the first of which has 4 subgroups). But in the three-split, there are two Indo-European groups (the Sicels, per the article), and the Greeks (because I know ;-). Can someone with knowledge or access to the sources clarify this? -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 13:11, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
The verifiability/referencing notice has been there for many years now. A lot has been fixed up over the years, but what is needed now is a concerted effort from a few committed users to go through it all, make it as tight as possible, ensure absolutely everything is fully and correctly referenced, and then finally get rid of the notices. The references are all out there, I have dozens in my personal library, and there are dozens more available online, so it comes down to a bit of hard work. I'm in contact with a few knowledgeable wikipedians who might be able to help, if there's anyone else out there wanting to help, it will be appreciated. πιππίνυ δ - (dica) 01:08, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
I have now completed a thorough review of this article in an attempt to fix all the referencing issues, adding new ones where required, as such, I have deleted the various notices which have been there for a while. Any expansion of topics such as phonology and grammar can probably use new articles because this one has become quite big. Please leave a comment if you think something else can be improved, or if made any errors in my revision. Cheers, πιππίνυ δ - (dica) 02:37, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Hello, first of all, my congrats to all the users which are working hard on this page, I am Sicilian and seeing this makes me really proud. Unfortunately I saw some "political" edits coming from user deeply involved in this article such as change of nationalities and an indiscriminate replacement of Italian terms/infobox/templates with Sicilian ones. Well, I don't know if you are scholars or simply Sicilians like me or Americans with Sicilian ancestry, my point is that this wonderful work on the Sicilian language shouldn't be confused and polluted by unreal political claims since it does not pertain to contemporary history as well as to modern Sicilian society.-- 80.104.150.166 ( talk) 16:36, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
I would rather welcome a statement on what might have been the official language of Sicily used in the Parliament and official state correspondence at different points in the history of the Sicilian kingdom, particularly after its re-founding in the 12th C. This is an encyclopaedia where I would hope to find an answer to such a question. I am not really interested in whether there were Arabs or Jews or Gauls or Lombards etc living in Sicily but in what was the official language used in official correspondence by the Kingdom of Sicily once it was founded. As the official language of the Kingdom, I would have thought it would be something this article should provide some information about. Was it Latin? Old/Middle Sicilian? South Italian? Italo-Norman? Arabic? Skamnelis ( talk) 16:46, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Salentino dialect in its own article is described as a dialect of Sicilian language. Here it is only mentioned in the header, and not at all in the section on dialects. Could someone look at the issue and work a bit on it? noychoH ( talk) 09:52, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
On the 'Sicilian orthography' page (at 'Ḍḍ, ḍḍ'), I see that both /dː/ and /ɖː/ exist, so shouldn't /ɖː/ be added to the phonology table? Exarchus ( talk) 12:26, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
I have edited the phonemes table and someone seems to have made few changes.
I now realise that adding all persistently geminated consonants as long phonemes on the chart might have been excessive, although there are some that are pronounced as such 100% of the time (mainly /ɖ/, /d͡ʒ/ and /b/). But of course, phonological analysis may vary (they might be regarded as sequences of two identical consonants /bb/, etc.) and the sources aren't exactly thorough on the topic, especially on a wider pan-Sicilian scale, so adding them not as geminates but as specifically long vowels with the triangular semicolon may be misleading or incorrect. That was my mistake.
However, /ɖ/ is surely a separate phoneme from /l/ and /d/, even though it evolved from Latin -LL-. It's true that some areas consistently or occasionally retained /ll/ and that sometimes younger speakers slip into [dː] due to Italian influence, but it's still absolutely a phoneme, and it contrasts with 'double-l' /ll/ too in modern dialects. If it's ok, I'll remove the parenthesis (so that it lookes like a proper phoneme and not an allophone) and provide sources. I'll make sure to correct the description below so that the article doesn't imply that [ɖ] is a surface realisation of /ll/. The sound is traditionally regarded as a retroflex consonant but I think post-alveolar is also a good way to describe it, so nothing to note there. Teangacha ( talk) 22:17, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
Cite error: There are <ref group=deleted ref>
tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=deleted ref}}
template (see the
help page).
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sicilian language article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The intro is very choppy and could use some work to more properly introduce the article. I'll try to get to it when I can. Mcorco2 ( talk) 08:51, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The way citations are made do not comply with wikipedia standards and most of the word put under the influences of the Arab period are anything but Arabic. The information is also not complete. 99.51.150.199 ( talk) 04:57, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I think content about Sicilian adverbs would be appropriate, most likely in the section on distinguishing features of Sicilian. Like other Southern Italian dialects, Sicilian avoids -mente adverbs, and this is novel for speakers of other romance languages. Some example adverbs would be appreciated. Note: I'm no expert on Sicilian, but I am finding no online information about adverbial construction in Sicilian, except that it doesn't use -mente. Example adverbs have been mostly adverbs of time and place, with only a couple of manner, such as those found here: Lingua Siciliana - Lesson 4.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bearsbearsbears ( talk • contribs) 16:28, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
How do you say "Good Luck" or "Blessings" "Good Fortune" in Sicilian?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.119.80.138 ( talk) 08:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
This article is quite chauviniste and its fully based on "Etnlogue" book. The sicilian language is part of "meridionali estremi"(= "southern languages") as the picture in the page shows. Dialleti merdionali estremi are: "sicilian", southern calabrian, southern Apulia language, and southern Campania language. Sayng "Dialetti meridionali estremi" is sicilian is like affirming England is UK. A completely non-sence —Preceding unsigned comment added by Firestorm81 ( talk • contribs) 10:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Don't know who has written this article, but I think it is of poor knowledge of the two languages sicilian and italian, or that one is a political motivated one. To translate fìmmina to donna is not wrong, but the most would translate it to femmina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.237.175.155 ( talk) 11:36, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Where is there any evidence for the claim that there is a significant number of Sicilian speakers in the United States? I live in one of the US cities cited as having a sizable Sicilian-speaking population. I never hear it anymore. I do not know of a single Bostonian who speaks Sicilian as their only native language, does not speak English better than Sicilian, does not prefer to speak English, or speaks Sicilian on any regular basis. My father has not spoken Sicilian for more than 30 minutes total in the past 30 years.
Sicilian immigration into the US ended about 100 years ago. There are no more than a handful of Sicilian immigrants who are still alive. Very few Americans are of 100% Sicilian ancestry. Little remains of the ancestral identity of most white Americans. Bostoner ( talk) 01:49, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
You are all 3 incorrect. There are many Americans including myself not only fluent in Sicilan, but speak it regularly. The language is preserved and taught through family association, church organizations and societies, as well as social and ethnic historical clubs. Cosand ( talk) 20:18, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
It's great that you speak Sicilian - please continue to do so, and preserve the language here in the US!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.113.121 ( talk) 01:42, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
User:Angelo.romano deleted my contribution with (rv - as you said in your comments, it's not even Sicilian, but just a mixture of Italian with Sicilian words. So, WP:TRIVIA quite inappropriate for this article.):
I think it should appear in the article because Sicilian rarely is seen on the screen. Even more, it represented Italy at the Oscars, so it gets projected abroad in Sicilian (locally subtitled). The dialogue tries to represent everyday Bagheria life. Hence characters talk Sicilian and Italian depending on context, just as real Sicilians did. For example, the school is in Italian, but the shepherds talk Sicilian.
It is also an example of the role of Sicilian in the media today. If you have an recent example of Sicilian given a higher profile, mention it. Otherwise Baaria should go in the article. The contrast between the Sicilian and the Italian dubbings also shows the degree of mutual intelligibility.
I'm not a expert in the language, but I think in the Sicilian version, they speak "full Sicilian" (and Italian and Sicilian-accented Italian and even English in some scenes), not "a mixture". It depends on which character in which context, just as in real 20th century Sicily. If you understood otherwise, please suggest a rephrasing. -- Error ( talk) 19:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Sicilian (an older version) is spoken sporadically in the Godfather series of Oscar winning movies. It is also spoken sporadically in the Inspector Montalbano TV series, much to my amusement. Australian of Sicilian descent (parents). 203.214.22.116 ( talk) 04:00, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
I added a "citation needed" in the section about the verb "to have" (link), where it reads: "Sicilian may use the verb jiri, to go, to signify the act of being about to do something. Italian does not use the verb andare, to go, in this way". As an Italian I can witness that Italian does indeed use the verb "avere" (to have) in equivalent constructs. For example as a teacher I might say "Andiamo a vedere ..." (we're going to see, literally: we go to see), or as an anchorman I could say "Andiamo ad ascoltare ..." (we're going to listen, literally: we go to listen).
-- Astabada ( talk) 15:42, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I wanted to point out this discrepancy. I made it also in the talk of Neapolitan language. Nothing personal towards Sicily , Sicilians and Sicilian language , that I love (I have supported from years that Sicilian must be declared an official language in Sicilian region) , but it appears to me as a discrimination unjust and unjustified ! Anno1443
I would like to refactor the references in this page to use the inline citation style of footnote. Currently it uses parenthitical references ( Hull, 1989) instead of inline references [1]. I will keep separate the Notes and the References since the page already does this. Does anybody have any objections to using this style of footnote? It is the prevailing method here and is easier (IMO) to maintain.
Sample Footnotes
Thanks, Dusty| 💬| You can help! 16:04, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
'DR, TR — Similarly, Sicilian has a unique pronunciation of the digraphs -tr- and -dr- as [tʃɹ] and [dʒɹ], not common to Italian. The sound of -tr- is exactly like that heard in English tree and the sound of -dr- exactly like the digraph heard in English dragon.
This is inconsistent. There is no ʃ in English TR, and no ʒ in English DR. Can someone clarify what the correct pronunciation is, please? Prof Wrong ( talk) 20:58, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
The sentence of ethnologue is unnecessary, because it’s impossible to think that sicilian and italian languages are the same thing. Between sicilian and italian there is not the same differences than between, for example, serbian, croatian and bosnian. The similarities between sicilian and italian concern just part of lexicon, because they are both romance languages and because they influence each other (for obvious social political reasons), but the grammar and overall the phonology is completely different. A stranger can think that czech and slovakian are the same language because they sound very similar; often a stranger cannot distinguish spanish and catalan (despite they are rather distinguishable), but even a stranger can realize that italian and sicilian are two different languages.
The IPA transliteration of the digraphs “tr”, “dr”, aren’t [tʃɹ], [dʒɹ]. In Sicilian they are typical affricate sounds, so [ʈ͡ʂ], [ɖ͡ʐ]. Listen the chart [
[1]] it’s exactly like that.
The digraph “ci” is not [ç], or rather in some (limited) areas the sound is like that but in majority of Sicily it’s [ʃ], like english “sh” but more faint. In english “sh” is actually [ʃʃ], always strong, instead in sicilian there is a [ʃ] written usually “ci”/“ce” and a [ʃʃ] just like in english, written usually “sci”/”sce”. Sicilian language unfortunately use the italian orthography because it hasn’t a standard peculiarly sicilian.
The trigraph “str” in not pronounced [ʃɹ] but simply [ʂː], it’s a unique sound, always strong. “Shr” in english is different, even if more similar than italian.
It’s true, “j” can be pronounced in different ways, but not like “jelly” in English. “Un jornu” is [uŋˈgjɔɾnu] not [unˈdʒoɾnu]. “Tri jorna” is [ʈ͡ʂigˈgjɔɾna], not [triˈɡjoɾna]; [tr] and [o] in sicilian don’t exist. The pronounce [ˈddʒɔɾnu] can existe just in “bon giornu” (good morning), but it is an italianism, in sicilian in fact the correct pronunciation should be [bbɔŋˈgjɔɾnu].
I’m Sicilian.--16:30, 23 May 2014 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
188.153.229.189 (
talk)
"The 2nd person singular (polite) of the Imperative does not follow the same pattern as the rest of the tense. The 2nd person singular and plural employ the Present Indicative in place of the Imperative, while the 2nd person singular (polite), because of its formality, employs the Present Subjunctive, which makes it less of a command and more of a request."
It might make sense, if it weren't for the fact that Romance 3rd person (=2nd person polite in most of those lgs) imperative is always derived from subjunctive, and it can be traced back to Latin (coniunctivus iussivus, prohibitivus & optativus, I believe). It's a case of a fancy explanation for a feature that was simply inherited. 176.221.120.207 ( talk) 20:51, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Apparently it is referred in the work Giarrizzo, Salvatore (1989). Dizionario Etimologico Siciliano. Herbita Editrice. Someone should check this source. 79.117.153.178 ( talk) 15:20, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
The article contains two statements about "Italic languages": "Sicilian has the oldest literary tradition of the Italic languages", and "Sicilian became the first of the Italic languages to be used as a literary language". Is this an erroneous substitution of the term "Italic" in place of "Romance"? Cicero, Virgil, and Horace all wrote in the first century BC, in Latin, an Italic language par excellence. Kotabatubara ( talk) 21:09, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
I'm confused by this section:
In particular, I can see either four or three "prehistoric groups": Sicels (or Siculi, or Siculians—who arrived between the second and first millennia BC), Sicani, Elymians, and Morgetes (four groups), versus "indigenous population", Phoenicians, and Greeks (three groups, the first of which has 4 subgroups). But in the three-split, there are two Indo-European groups (the Sicels, per the article), and the Greeks (because I know ;-). Can someone with knowledge or access to the sources clarify this? -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 13:11, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
The verifiability/referencing notice has been there for many years now. A lot has been fixed up over the years, but what is needed now is a concerted effort from a few committed users to go through it all, make it as tight as possible, ensure absolutely everything is fully and correctly referenced, and then finally get rid of the notices. The references are all out there, I have dozens in my personal library, and there are dozens more available online, so it comes down to a bit of hard work. I'm in contact with a few knowledgeable wikipedians who might be able to help, if there's anyone else out there wanting to help, it will be appreciated. πιππίνυ δ - (dica) 01:08, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
I have now completed a thorough review of this article in an attempt to fix all the referencing issues, adding new ones where required, as such, I have deleted the various notices which have been there for a while. Any expansion of topics such as phonology and grammar can probably use new articles because this one has become quite big. Please leave a comment if you think something else can be improved, or if made any errors in my revision. Cheers, πιππίνυ δ - (dica) 02:37, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Hello, first of all, my congrats to all the users which are working hard on this page, I am Sicilian and seeing this makes me really proud. Unfortunately I saw some "political" edits coming from user deeply involved in this article such as change of nationalities and an indiscriminate replacement of Italian terms/infobox/templates with Sicilian ones. Well, I don't know if you are scholars or simply Sicilians like me or Americans with Sicilian ancestry, my point is that this wonderful work on the Sicilian language shouldn't be confused and polluted by unreal political claims since it does not pertain to contemporary history as well as to modern Sicilian society.-- 80.104.150.166 ( talk) 16:36, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
I would rather welcome a statement on what might have been the official language of Sicily used in the Parliament and official state correspondence at different points in the history of the Sicilian kingdom, particularly after its re-founding in the 12th C. This is an encyclopaedia where I would hope to find an answer to such a question. I am not really interested in whether there were Arabs or Jews or Gauls or Lombards etc living in Sicily but in what was the official language used in official correspondence by the Kingdom of Sicily once it was founded. As the official language of the Kingdom, I would have thought it would be something this article should provide some information about. Was it Latin? Old/Middle Sicilian? South Italian? Italo-Norman? Arabic? Skamnelis ( talk) 16:46, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Salentino dialect in its own article is described as a dialect of Sicilian language. Here it is only mentioned in the header, and not at all in the section on dialects. Could someone look at the issue and work a bit on it? noychoH ( talk) 09:52, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
On the 'Sicilian orthography' page (at 'Ḍḍ, ḍḍ'), I see that both /dː/ and /ɖː/ exist, so shouldn't /ɖː/ be added to the phonology table? Exarchus ( talk) 12:26, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
I have edited the phonemes table and someone seems to have made few changes.
I now realise that adding all persistently geminated consonants as long phonemes on the chart might have been excessive, although there are some that are pronounced as such 100% of the time (mainly /ɖ/, /d͡ʒ/ and /b/). But of course, phonological analysis may vary (they might be regarded as sequences of two identical consonants /bb/, etc.) and the sources aren't exactly thorough on the topic, especially on a wider pan-Sicilian scale, so adding them not as geminates but as specifically long vowels with the triangular semicolon may be misleading or incorrect. That was my mistake.
However, /ɖ/ is surely a separate phoneme from /l/ and /d/, even though it evolved from Latin -LL-. It's true that some areas consistently or occasionally retained /ll/ and that sometimes younger speakers slip into [dː] due to Italian influence, but it's still absolutely a phoneme, and it contrasts with 'double-l' /ll/ too in modern dialects. If it's ok, I'll remove the parenthesis (so that it lookes like a proper phoneme and not an allophone) and provide sources. I'll make sure to correct the description below so that the article doesn't imply that [ɖ] is a surface realisation of /ll/. The sound is traditionally regarded as a retroflex consonant but I think post-alveolar is also a good way to describe it, so nothing to note there. Teangacha ( talk) 22:17, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
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