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Disputing the present root of the name Sibyl or Cybelle or various other incarnations of the goddess's name:
The root presently provided is not wrong, but it's an intermediary form and not the original. Introduced into Greece from Asia Minor it was previously CYBELE and prior to that Cybebe, with the C pronounced as a "K". The "Y" is pronounced "OO" as it also should be when pronouncing Cyrus "KOUROS". CYBEBE ------> Koo BIBI Kooh BIBI Lady of the mountain. (Kooh = Mountain, Bibi = Lady, Old old Persian, Iranian, the root of most present Indo European languages.)
We have in Iran many Ladies of the mountain, converted by some ruse into shrines of prominent Moslem ladies of the holy line of the prophet. One of the most famous being at Ghom (= Cumae??)
Sibyl and Cybele Kybele are not connected etymologically or any other direct way.Is this really true they sound so similar,there must be some very ancient relationship? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.178.68.92 ( talk) 02:48, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
This text, spuriously attributed to "the medieval monks" has been moved here. Knowing who has actually made this up, and when, might give it a place in this otherwise carefully nuanced article ( Wetman):
"The mediaeval monks reckoned twelve Sibyls, and gave to each a separate prophecy and distinct emblem:-
I removed the text in the 3rd paragraph because most of it was repeated word for word in the sibylline books topic that are referenced. It seemed redundant to have it here and then have it repeated in the exacly in the linked topic. The remainder of the text is speaking of the birthplaces of up to 3 different sibyls and has nothing to do with the books and therefore I was going to move the text to the specific topics for the appropriate sibyl. Being redundant is perhaps okay, I don't see how having information in the wrong section is helpful to the reader.
I found the following text at http://www.goddess.org/vortices/notes/cybele.html
Marcus Terentius Varro, the Roman scholar and director of Caesar's library said there were eleven Sibyls, one each residing in the great centers of the world. In Persia she was Sibylla Persica, and was depicted as carrying a lantern and had a serpent under her feet; in Libya, Sibylla Libyea held a lighted torch; at Delphi, the Sibylla Delphica wore a crown of thorns; at Cumae, Sibylla Cumana had an stone manger; at Samos, Sibylla Cania bore a reed and a candle; the Sibylla Cimmeria carried a cross; Sibylla Erythreia held a white rose; on the Tibur, Sibylla Tibertina was dressed in animal skins and carried the fascista bundle of rods; at Marpessa, Sibylla Europa carried sword; on the Hellesport, Sibylla Hellespontina carried a flowering branch; Sibylla Phrygia carried a banner and prophesied resurrection.
how do I decide if it's true and since we know Varro exist, who should get credit if the text is added? Varro or the website where this is found?
This entry is a fantastic blend of 19c. scholarship and modern religious fantasy. Although decked out with citations and other markers of reliability, it is almost completely disconnected from contemporary classical scholarship. I particularly resent that the "Delphic Oracle" is redirected here, and then completely mischaracterized. The writers' efforts to assert Delphi's connections with female divinities is remarkable; I beg you to find anything like this in a published, peer-reviewed book of the last 25 years! The entry also evinces a baldly POV attitude toward Christian authors, "reductionists," etc.
This is Wikipedia at its worst. It is junk. Lectiodifficilior 22:45, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This is once more the trunk entry for sibyls. Individual sibyls are still at individual entries, ideally with more material than is once again here. A great deal remains to be done. -- Wetman 06:34, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
The figure of the ageless sibyl has been confused with the Graeae by an editor who claimed that "the mark of a Sibyl possessed with the second sight is the gift to be able to take her eyes out and then put them back in." Such crackerbarrel iconography is passed around and around in social groups who are deprived of libraries. The Internet is littered with such material. We shouldn't be adding to it. -- Wetman 02:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
The article now says this, but I'll repeat it on the talk page: the Pythia is an entirely separate figure from the Delphic Sibyl, and Wikipedia should not confuse the two. Now it seems that in medieval times the two did get combined, and if that's the case it's an entirely appropriate matter for the Sibyl or Delphic Sibyl articles to cover, but in doing so, it would be good to make it clear that the mixing of the two only happened long after the oracle ceased operating. --Akhilleus ( talk) 06:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Is it a Position (ministry), identifiable Person, an Oracle, a Lineage (Mistress/Dissiple), an Institution?
The striking example, the entry of Libyan Sibyl in the main article says she was presiding over the oracle at Siwa Oasis. This oracle is associated with Cambyses II, and with Alexander. About 2 centuries of time span. The same question applies to the Pythia entry above.
-- Connection 21:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Add to this, the Cumaean Sibyl has various names "Amaltheia, Demophile, Deiphobe, Herophile, or Taraxandra. (In Virgil's Aeneid, she is called Deiphobe, daughter of Glaucus.)"-- Connection 11:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I completely agree with the question. The introduction of this article is not so clear for those who have no idea what a sibyl is (like myself). What is a sibyl? Are they just any prophetess or a particular type of prophetess? What's the difference between a prophetess and a sibyl? Do they particularly prophesize a particular thing or general things? If there were a were a woman today in Japan prophesizing about the destruction of Japan would she be a sibyl? If they were only known through legends, then what kind of legends, European, Christian, Mediterranean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.121.207.60 ( talk) 08:33, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
The Sibyl was located at Marpessus? (Not only born there). The name should be changed?-- Connection 13:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
All assertions added to this article need to be attributed. Otherwise this article will be as full of blather as the individual articles on individual sibyls. Please don't cut 'n paste stuff from those articles to this one.-- Wetman ( talk) 20:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I haven't been able to find any references that discuss a sibyl foretelling anything about Alexander the Great. However, I have found 2 sources that indirectly connects the two. One says "Nicanor...wrote the deeds of Alexander the Great, is said to have reported a Persian sibyl." page 184 and "Nicanor...who wrote a history of Alexander the Great, speaks of one of these Persian Sibyls.." page 19 Perhaps a sibyl did not foresee Alexander but rather the mentioning of the two in the same sources have led to a misunderstanding? Coinmanj ( talk) 09:39, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
The word "sibyl" is not a proper noun everywhere. It could be a title in some places (e.g., "Alexander the Great met the Persian Sibyl") but not in others (e.g., "Alexander the Great looked for a sibyl in Persia.") Compare "bishop" for a contemporary analogy. There's "the Bishop of Rome" and "a bishop in Rome." I am making edits to clarify based on this rule. -- GoldCoastPrior ( talk) 01:53, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
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The article gives no definition of an Sibyl. If you come here to understand what a sibyl is, you will not find that.The article immediately starts with an advanced discussion about etymology. Hdela ( talk) 09:17, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Disputing the present root of the name Sibyl or Cybelle or various other incarnations of the goddess's name:
The root presently provided is not wrong, but it's an intermediary form and not the original. Introduced into Greece from Asia Minor it was previously CYBELE and prior to that Cybebe, with the C pronounced as a "K". The "Y" is pronounced "OO" as it also should be when pronouncing Cyrus "KOUROS". CYBEBE ------> Koo BIBI Kooh BIBI Lady of the mountain. (Kooh = Mountain, Bibi = Lady, Old old Persian, Iranian, the root of most present Indo European languages.)
We have in Iran many Ladies of the mountain, converted by some ruse into shrines of prominent Moslem ladies of the holy line of the prophet. One of the most famous being at Ghom (= Cumae??)
Sibyl and Cybele Kybele are not connected etymologically or any other direct way.Is this really true they sound so similar,there must be some very ancient relationship? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.178.68.92 ( talk) 02:48, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
This text, spuriously attributed to "the medieval monks" has been moved here. Knowing who has actually made this up, and when, might give it a place in this otherwise carefully nuanced article ( Wetman):
"The mediaeval monks reckoned twelve Sibyls, and gave to each a separate prophecy and distinct emblem:-
I removed the text in the 3rd paragraph because most of it was repeated word for word in the sibylline books topic that are referenced. It seemed redundant to have it here and then have it repeated in the exacly in the linked topic. The remainder of the text is speaking of the birthplaces of up to 3 different sibyls and has nothing to do with the books and therefore I was going to move the text to the specific topics for the appropriate sibyl. Being redundant is perhaps okay, I don't see how having information in the wrong section is helpful to the reader.
I found the following text at http://www.goddess.org/vortices/notes/cybele.html
Marcus Terentius Varro, the Roman scholar and director of Caesar's library said there were eleven Sibyls, one each residing in the great centers of the world. In Persia she was Sibylla Persica, and was depicted as carrying a lantern and had a serpent under her feet; in Libya, Sibylla Libyea held a lighted torch; at Delphi, the Sibylla Delphica wore a crown of thorns; at Cumae, Sibylla Cumana had an stone manger; at Samos, Sibylla Cania bore a reed and a candle; the Sibylla Cimmeria carried a cross; Sibylla Erythreia held a white rose; on the Tibur, Sibylla Tibertina was dressed in animal skins and carried the fascista bundle of rods; at Marpessa, Sibylla Europa carried sword; on the Hellesport, Sibylla Hellespontina carried a flowering branch; Sibylla Phrygia carried a banner and prophesied resurrection.
how do I decide if it's true and since we know Varro exist, who should get credit if the text is added? Varro or the website where this is found?
This entry is a fantastic blend of 19c. scholarship and modern religious fantasy. Although decked out with citations and other markers of reliability, it is almost completely disconnected from contemporary classical scholarship. I particularly resent that the "Delphic Oracle" is redirected here, and then completely mischaracterized. The writers' efforts to assert Delphi's connections with female divinities is remarkable; I beg you to find anything like this in a published, peer-reviewed book of the last 25 years! The entry also evinces a baldly POV attitude toward Christian authors, "reductionists," etc.
This is Wikipedia at its worst. It is junk. Lectiodifficilior 22:45, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This is once more the trunk entry for sibyls. Individual sibyls are still at individual entries, ideally with more material than is once again here. A great deal remains to be done. -- Wetman 06:34, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
The figure of the ageless sibyl has been confused with the Graeae by an editor who claimed that "the mark of a Sibyl possessed with the second sight is the gift to be able to take her eyes out and then put them back in." Such crackerbarrel iconography is passed around and around in social groups who are deprived of libraries. The Internet is littered with such material. We shouldn't be adding to it. -- Wetman 02:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
The article now says this, but I'll repeat it on the talk page: the Pythia is an entirely separate figure from the Delphic Sibyl, and Wikipedia should not confuse the two. Now it seems that in medieval times the two did get combined, and if that's the case it's an entirely appropriate matter for the Sibyl or Delphic Sibyl articles to cover, but in doing so, it would be good to make it clear that the mixing of the two only happened long after the oracle ceased operating. --Akhilleus ( talk) 06:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Is it a Position (ministry), identifiable Person, an Oracle, a Lineage (Mistress/Dissiple), an Institution?
The striking example, the entry of Libyan Sibyl in the main article says she was presiding over the oracle at Siwa Oasis. This oracle is associated with Cambyses II, and with Alexander. About 2 centuries of time span. The same question applies to the Pythia entry above.
-- Connection 21:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Add to this, the Cumaean Sibyl has various names "Amaltheia, Demophile, Deiphobe, Herophile, or Taraxandra. (In Virgil's Aeneid, she is called Deiphobe, daughter of Glaucus.)"-- Connection 11:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I completely agree with the question. The introduction of this article is not so clear for those who have no idea what a sibyl is (like myself). What is a sibyl? Are they just any prophetess or a particular type of prophetess? What's the difference between a prophetess and a sibyl? Do they particularly prophesize a particular thing or general things? If there were a were a woman today in Japan prophesizing about the destruction of Japan would she be a sibyl? If they were only known through legends, then what kind of legends, European, Christian, Mediterranean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.121.207.60 ( talk) 08:33, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
The Sibyl was located at Marpessus? (Not only born there). The name should be changed?-- Connection 13:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
All assertions added to this article need to be attributed. Otherwise this article will be as full of blather as the individual articles on individual sibyls. Please don't cut 'n paste stuff from those articles to this one.-- Wetman ( talk) 20:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I haven't been able to find any references that discuss a sibyl foretelling anything about Alexander the Great. However, I have found 2 sources that indirectly connects the two. One says "Nicanor...wrote the deeds of Alexander the Great, is said to have reported a Persian sibyl." page 184 and "Nicanor...who wrote a history of Alexander the Great, speaks of one of these Persian Sibyls.." page 19 Perhaps a sibyl did not foresee Alexander but rather the mentioning of the two in the same sources have led to a misunderstanding? Coinmanj ( talk) 09:39, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
The word "sibyl" is not a proper noun everywhere. It could be a title in some places (e.g., "Alexander the Great met the Persian Sibyl") but not in others (e.g., "Alexander the Great looked for a sibyl in Persia.") Compare "bishop" for a contemporary analogy. There's "the Bishop of Rome" and "a bishop in Rome." I am making edits to clarify based on this rule. -- GoldCoastPrior ( talk) 01:53, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:30, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
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The article gives no definition of an Sibyl. If you come here to understand what a sibyl is, you will not find that.The article immediately starts with an advanced discussion about etymology. Hdela ( talk) 09:17, 16 January 2024 (UTC)