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This needs a link from poo
It is done. GusGus 21:43, 2004 Feb 25 (UTC)
I would have to vote, Shrove Tuesday is on its own. Being raised in the Episcopal Church I have always heard the term Shrove Tuesday even before I herd of Mardi Gras. I feel that the root of the celebration is the same but they have different feelings associated with them. Most people feel that Mardi Gras is a celebration just for the fun of it with a historical religious root that many have forgotten. Mardi Gras is also a week long event that ends on Shrove Tuesday. I think that most people who are familiar with Shrove Tuesday would feel that it is mainly a religious day to prepare for lent. The feast before the fast.
I'm new here, but i'll put in my two cents worth. The name in the US is not "Fat Tuesday", rather that is an OCCASIONALLY tolerated translation of same. That is, "Mardi Gras" is far more common, and probably came first.
Aside from in Seattle, I have rarely HEARD "Fat Tuesday" actually. And I have *never* heard "Shrove" or "Shriven" - until I went googling around yesterday! I would say that for most people in the US, parties and festivals call "Mardi Gras", while more serious or quasi-religious contexts use "the night before Lent". Even at a church supper last night, everyone was calling it "the night before Lent". No "Shrove", no "Fat" anything.
Nor had I ever heard of "Pancake Day" before either, but something is brewing this year - I saw *6* local churches having "pancake supper"s last night; google caches reveal that last year most of them were simply "pot lucks", no mention of pancakes.
Jumping on the bandwagon, IHOP (chain resto) served *FREE* pancakes all day yesterday! A spokesman confirmed that this was the first time they've ever done that.
I suspect that within 2-3 years, the term "Pancake Day" will start to pop up in the US. If some celeb starts dropping it, perhaps earlier.
Cheers
xxxxx
Well, just to add my two cents: In Southern Germany we celebrate Fat Thursday (= Schmotziger Dunnschtig). "Schmotzig" means fatty/greasy and points to cookies baked in a lot of fat (some types of pancakes = "Fasnachtsküchle" or the "Berliner" = the donut without the hole).
Just a note for anyone who might consider adding alternative translations of "Fat Tuesday": for those not familiar with the US "Mardi Gras", the usual translation in the States is "Fat Tuesday" and that is also an alternative name for the festival. I've ventured the opinion that the "gras" could actually be better translated literally as "greasy" or "fatty", but this seems to be a matter of disagreement. My idea is that "gras", which can mean "fatty" (as in "cheveux gras" seen on bottles of shampoo for greasy hair), refers to the butter and lard people ate on that day, before giving it up, thus "fatty Tuesday". However, other people believe that "gras", which can mean "overweight", refers to the weight people put on eating that food, thus "overweight Tuesday". To me this seems only a matter of opinion, but as the name "Fat Tuesday" is so common, I'm being told my opinion, although a few others share it, is irrelevant and unhelpful and should not be added to the page. As I don't know if I'm right and it's just an alternative idea, I'm removing it, but I thought I'd write a note here in case anyone else had the same idea. Saintswithin 10:21, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
As a catholic australian, this day is also referred in my family as pancake tuesday. Not sure how universal it is and is undoubtably from the irish name for it. --agrosquid
I'm a Newfoundlander and we always have referred to it as Pancake Tuesday. I think this can and should be reflected in the article here, especially given the obvious wide usage of Pancake Tuesday among different cultures that observe the day. It can be mentioned very briefly and without much problem. I see no problem with adding this small tidbit of necessary information. -- Bentonia School ( talk) 10:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
With the praiseworthy Wikipedian penchant for a punctilious accuracy that rises above mere outworn tradition and non-American usage, shouldn't this more correctly have been at Shriven Tuesday and, following the general practice, eliminating a redirect from "Shrove Tuesday"? The verb, surely is "shrive, shrove, shriven" "shrove" being the past tense but "shriven" being the preferable past participle to be employed as an adjective according to Wikipedia standards. By settling upon an exquisitely correct title, wouldn't we be demonstrating the superior dependability of our information? Perhaps this would be suitably determined by a vote. -- Wetman 04:58, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Wouldn't the british conjugation be "shrive, shrove, shrived" actually? They are not wont to use the -en forms as often as us Yanks - cf. use of "has drived" where an American would say "has driven".
Come to think of it, I'm even surprised they use the O form in the past tense. As with
US: drive, drove, driven UK: drive, drived, drived
wouldn't a Brit be inclined to use "shrived" as the simple past?
In any case, I do agree with your point about needing the participle, but you can't "correct" a term which has been wrong for 100s of years. I'm sure there are other such examples.
Cheers
xxxxx
I know this is woefully out of date, but I've never heard a literate (i.e. over the age of 5 or so particularly) Brit say 'drived' - the above is tosh. 87.112.67.243 15:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
^^^ - Indeed, "drived" is not used by any Englishman over the age of 4. You cannot change the name (i.g. Shrove Tuesday) due to bad spelling/grammar/verb conjugation as it is no longer a sentence, therefore it cannot be corrected.
87.74.10.145 08:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I argue that "Shrove Tuesday" ought to be maintained as a separate article regardless of etymology for the strict and simple reason that this is how it's referred to in many regions, including the region I am from (the southeastern United States, specifically North Carolina). Many Protestant Christian churches here which have no Lenten fast from meat still celebrate Shrove Tuesday *by that name* with at least a secular event; hence merging this with Mardi Gras might provoke further confusion. 199.90.32.252 02:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)H. Fisher
The term "Shrove Tuesday" is by far the more widely used term in the English speaking world - sometimes, the term "Pancake Day" is used as a synonym for the day, but purists will almost certainly insist that the day gets called "Shrove Tuesday". ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 19:46, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
I am not saying that my question is true, or a fact but it really seems that Christians stole Shrove Tuesday from Pagans, or Balts when Lithuanian king Mindaugas was Baptised, and all of the Lithuanian kingdom was turned/converted to Christianity although they were Pagans. In England, the time of Shrove Tuesday tradition begining was 1445, which was 200 years later after the baptism (1251). In old times, i guess that the spreading of the Shrove tuesday would have went from eastern europe to the celtic (western) europe slowly. Basically i would think that hes a traitor or something and if anyone knows any information about these times, please tell me! User:Wykis
Still, most traditions are being held in Lithuania and Latvia, as well as Poland and other countries around.
Raised as a catholic in australia, 'pancake tuesday' was the name of the day used for kids, we still use the old english 'shrove' among adults, so both is acceptable. The reason was to use up certain 'luxury' foods before giving them up for lent. I really wouldn't say australians refer to the day as 'pancake tuesday' exclusively.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.7.38 ( talk • contribs)
Shrove Tuesday is when you prepare your self for Lent to start. You would eat pancakes to fill yourself up with sugar because you are fasting because Jesus was in the desert for forty days and was not tempted but he was pushed to be tempted.
Why was the score of the race deleted? Isopropyl 03:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
...is a crepe? Sherurcij ( talk) ( Terrorist Wikiproject) 23:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
When I was living in Scotland, the local Dundonians told me that the reason for eating pancakes on "Shrove Tuesday", was to use up the eggs and milk in the house the night before Lent starts (time of penance and giving up of luxuries). I think something to that effect should be added to the article, because to this point that connection is not clear. Yahawena 20:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)Els
I'm suggesting a merge or other possible reorganisation at talk:Mardi Gras. Stevage 11:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
No way. We are researching Shrove Tuesday for an Australian Catholic school assignment. Mardi Gras isn't relevant to us, though we'd love to visit and participate in one! 210.49.178.252 07:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
No, absolutely not... cross links could be added, but Shrove Tuesday has a character and a tradition all its own, distinct from Mardi Gras, though both recognize the last day before Lent.
So can we remove the suggestion to merge? W00tfest99 19:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Agree with removing the suggestion to merge, can someone do this? 194.80.32.10 20:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to join the chorus of disagreement. Mardi Gras is a festival to the rest of the world, Shrove Tuesday is a day to make enough pancakes to start involuntary bulimia. The two just happen to be on the same day now, they have diverged so far. Big Moira 02:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Merge flag removed, consensus quite clearly against (and a year old) 79.72.85.150 ( talk) 21:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
This isn't quite an accurate description of fastnachts. They are like a donut, but there is no hole, and they are less sweet. Also, there is never glaze, but they are sometimes dusted with powdered sugar. We refer to Fat Tuesday as Fastnacht (or Fastnaucht) Day, Fastnacht meaning "Fast Night."
reference: http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?S=2917435 "Some fastnachts are made with yeast, some with potatoes and yeast, and some without either. They call for lard if available. Traditionally, all fastnachts were made with, and fried in, lard" (in order to use up the house's lard befor Lent).
Actually, living in Lancaster county, commercially, glazed is what we predominantly find (and sell out the fastest) I don't know if this is technically correct for the historical culture.
Trex005 14:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
As an Australian, I have never heard of Pancake Day or Shrove Tuesday refered to as Mardi Gras. I think merging the two titles would make it more confusing for non-Americans to find what information they are looking for. When I hear Mardi Gras, I think of the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, or the Mardi Gras held in Rio. I had no idea that some people thought that Mardi Gras and Pancake Day were the same thing!
Some more investigation would need to be done into this to see if it is really true of most commonwealth countries, but here in Canada we seem to follow the tradition under the UK, Ireland and Australia heading for the most part, calling it "Shrove Tuesday" or occasionally "Pancake Tuesday". Mardi Gras is associated with the New Orleans or Brazilian festivities. The unique tradition here is that we tend to put maple syrup rather than icing sugar on the pancakes. Anyways, perhaps the title for that section should be changed to "Commonwealth Countries" if my suspicion that practices across the commonwealth are mostly similar. Opinions? Renzo 80 15:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Here in Northern Ireland I've never known Shrove Tuesday to be a holiday, contrary to what the article states Easter Monday/Tuesday is the official Easter related public holiday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.249.105 ( talk) 18:23, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
According to the discussion above "Pancake Tuesday" and "Pancake Day" are both used roughly equally, but in different areas. Danikat ( talk) 19:52, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Fastnacht day is a very specific cultures celebration. It may be for the same event, but I don't think they should be merged. Maybe just linked to each other. Trex005 14:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Fasnacht is a very important cultural event in Switzerland (like Carnival is to Rio or Venice) and has nothing to do with Pancakes or the English holiday beyond the fact that it also occurs before Ash Wednesday. Additionally, I'm sure much can be said about both topics, and they would probably each grow to be too large to keep in one article anyway. Let's just link to them in either article but allow each to remain separate. Goldfishbutt 04:46, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree as well - do not merge Fasnacht with Shrove Tuesday, as Fasnacht has different roots. Never in 25 years in southern Germany have I heard of any link between Fasnacht and pancakes...
I grew up entirely in the US. We referred to it as Shrove Tuesday before I knew of the connection to Mardi Gras. For reference, I grew up in the Houston area in the Episcopal Church. We celebrated with a pancake supper at the church every year. I don't recall actually referring to the day as Pancake Day, though. In fact, we used the terminology separately, with Mardi Gras just being an overall celebration and Shrove Tuesday more tied to the religious aspects. I realize my info is not officially a reliable source, but it was jarring to me to see us excluded from the term. I wonder if perhaps it was an Episcopal thing, what with the Anglican connection? I see someone else mentioned Episcopal up there. -- Siradia ( talk) 04:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Can we add detail of the current year's date to the top of the page?
When I come to a holiday/date-related page from a search engine I am usually looking for the date for the current or coming year, so - agrandising myself to a typical Wikipedia user - it would be very useful to have the dates for the current and coming year at the top of the page. If you backed holiday/date-related pages with a list/table of dates you could generate that quite easily.
Willllll ( talk) 04:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I know this is rather trivial, it's in the same vein as the annual restocking of Creme Eggs before Easter: Jif, a brand of lemon juice (sold in plastic lemons as well as bottles) have advertised for Pancake Tuesday in Ireland (and probably UK) with the tagline of "Jif Lemon Day, have you forgotten something?" (plate with lemon juice, no pancakes) to remind people to lay in some lemon juice for the occasion.
zoney ♣ talk 00:13, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
This television advertising was run in South East England when I was young. I can't remember exactly when probably late 80's or early 90's but I remember the advert very clearly. I could never understand why people didn't just buy lemons! P.S. The advert also indicates that "pancake day" was the usual colloquial term for Shrove Tuesday at the time in this area or else the marketing men would probably have said "Jif Lemon Tuesday" instead.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.40.25 ( talk) 16:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
We do not need to clutter the article up with pieces of trivial information such as that one. Most Wikipedians (myself included) are against Wikipedia going in for advertising (after all, see Wikipedia: What Wikipedia is not; so it is best if this article simply concentrates on the more academic, historical and cultural aspects of dissemination of knowledge about Shrove Tuesday. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 16:29, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
I have never heard anybody call Pancake Tuesday "Shrove Tuesday" in Ireland. I notice the article which claims this is not Irish and also terms Ireland as part of something called the "British Isles". I'm removing this nonsense immediately. 86.42.84.131 ( talk) 11:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
It is called "Pancake Tuesday" in Ireland. I was born and raised in Ireland as were my parents. I am 57 years old. I have a TV and radio and a computer. I read Irish newspapers. I have travelled widely in Ireland. if it was called Shrove Tuesday here, don't you think I might have noticed by now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.218.46 ( talk) 19:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Use of the term "British Isles" is controversial though, whatever about the history of the term being purely a geographic term. It's rather silly to pretend no-one's going to have any problem with Ireland being termed on of the British Isles. The term should be avoided where it is unnecessary (indeed often what is meant is specifically UK and Ireland, i.e. not necessarily Isle of Man, etc.) zoney ♣ talk 11:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
With all due respect, I am Polish and I know what we celebrate. The Polish people do not celebrate "Fat Thursday", there is no such thing. Paczkis are eaten on "Fat Tuesday". I challenge you to find anyone who is celebrating "Fat Thursday". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jedam ( talk • contribs) 17:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
David and Lesgles, are either one of you Polish? Lesgles, you provided the link to the Polish version of the same incorrect article that exists in English, which doesn't prove anything. When I offered the challenge, I meant for someone to find a news article celebrating "Fat Thursday" 2009. Poles don't celebrate "Fat Thursday". I am a 45 year old, Polish American, Roman Catholic and I know my traditions. Here are some resources: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9405E0D7103CF933A25751C0A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1 or http://reliableanswers.com/general/celebrate_fat_tuesday.asp or http://easteuropeanfood.about.com/od/fattuesday/Fat_Tuesday.htm or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P5t9M6vIRs Jedam 01:33, 18 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jedam ( talk • contribs)
I humbly stand corrected! In all my years, I had never heard any Polish family, friends, or relatives mention "Fat Thursday"; it has always been "Fat Tuesday". (How far does this celebration actually date back?) This experience has taught me a valuable lesson about patience and discernment. I apologize. And thank you for not taking that gauntlet (see above) and chopping off my head! You have all been very patient and understanding. Thank you. Therese Jedam 23:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
There's an image of the "Mardi Gras Flag" under "Dates". What is this, and what relevance does it have? Bagunceiro ( talk) 14:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I've never ever heard of anyone in the UK eating pancakes with a "meat stew", not even in the past. 78.147.248.174 ( talk) 22:46, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm from Yorkshire and in my locality we traditionally do eat it with meat stew. It was a way of people using up all their meat, eggs and milk before lent. My family and I (as well as pretty much everyone I know) still eats pancakes with a beef stew and potatoes. It's only my southern-born father who introduced us to the sweet variety - and then only as a dessert. Do people actually have sweet pancakes as a main meal? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
81.145.139.130 (
talk) 09:09, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
In answer to the above: yes, some people do have just sweet pancakes as a meal. That was the tradition when I was growing up in the 80s, my parents were from Northumberland and the West Midlands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.242.36 ( talk) 13:49, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
With so much coverage of what the day is called as Mardi Gras (and associated terms) and how it is celebrated in Catholic countries and communities, this article loses focus. Shrove Tuesday was part of a Protestant tradition formed after the Reformation. There is a separate article on Mardi Gras, and the many celebrations, names, and foods of Catholic countries and ethnic communities do not need to be repeated here. That is too much to wade through. Also, the article circles around, repeating content about foods (pancakes) in the UK and Commonwealth countries, then about sports traditions, then more about food. It is very repetitious and needs serious editing.-- Parkwells ( talk) 16:30, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm from Catholic from Canada, and when we celebrated Shrove/Pancake Tuesday, we always baked coins into the pancakes. Does anyone else know about this tradition, was it isolated to us, or did other people do it as well, and what were its origins??? 94.100.23.52 ( talk) 11:27, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
In Finland and Sweden, the day is associated with the almond paste-filled semla pastry.
Should be changed to
In Finland and Sweden, the day is associated with the semla pastry filled with almond paste or whipped cream and jam.
Because the pastry is avaliable in 2 forms with these 2 fillings, not just with almond paste
Mobygirl1985 ( talk) 16:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
The pancake bell was moved from the corner of Huntress Row and Westborough to the Coorner of North Street and Westborough in Scarborough
92.17.135.220 ( talk) 19:07, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
Also known as Crepe Tuesday.
Michelle92e ( talk) 22:33, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Since the Pancake Race at Olney is the most famous Pancake Race in the United Kingdom, Olney could have had a a lot more prominence in the section "Festivities". ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 00:09, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
The early reference is to "English speaking countries" but then there is a contradiction. We read "especially Ireland, the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada " - fair enough, they are all English-speaking - but why is the reference then given to Germany and the Philippines? The language of Germany is German, and in the Philipinnes, it is Filipino, which is based on Tagalog. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 00:51, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Now that the dust has settled about mardi gras and jeudi gras and shriven etc, can we address the fact that this article is about Shrove Tuesday and not mardi gras, by noting that the lede goes on about pancakes before addressing the topic? Pancake Tuesday (which is as ancient a thing as "Turkey day" for American Thanksgiving) can be mentioned later, as a link to another article. -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 17:58, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
The sources cited for the pagan history link do not seem particularly scholarly - I wonder just how reliable that whole idea is. The Catholic Encyclopedia referenced indicates that the concept of Shrove Tuesday is older. Someone must have researched this. -- Beardo ( talk) 06:46, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
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I've found a reliable informative website, which is ranking on Bing and Yahoo search engines on 1st page (even on Google but not on 1st page) which have all the articles containing Shrove Tuesday, Pancake Day and Ash Wednesday. Thus, I want to edit some information here regarding Shrove Tuesday. People will let know about the website ( http://www.shrovetuesday.org/) which i'm discussing on it, If editors can edit the information from that website. Thus, it will be really helpful for the visitors, who'll the find the right information. Thanks Amar77711 ( talk) 20:38, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
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I have removed a false claim about the "Four Pillars" of Christianity. It had been refuted in the article, without making reference to a source. The source cited to bolster the false claim is not a reliable source for Christian doctrine, it is a secular, commercial purveyor of "business news". These reporters have no interest in fact-checking outside their milieu. I have replaced it with a source from the Orthodox Church. 2600:8800:1880:2B95:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 ( talk) 03:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
I'm afraid I messed something up. There was some vandalism today, probably from being a featured article. I tried reversing it, but it looks like an anonymous editor was trying to do the same thing at the same time. I'm going to give up, and hope someone smart enoughcan revert the changes all the way back. Fcrary ( talk) 23:25, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
The article suffers from being a mix of tourism and folklore. This is evident in the confusion over who has ever heard of it, and the difference between Shrove Tuesday and Mardi Gras; indeed this confusion starts in the first line. E.g. "Shrove Tuesday is observed by many Christians, including Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists and Roman Catholics,[2] who "make a special point of self-examination, of considering what wrongs they need to repent, and what amendments of life or areas of spiritual growth they especially need to ask God's help in dealing with."[3]" I looked at the first footnote ([2] and Roman Catholics are not mentioned anywhere in the article. The article is the sort of thing a town journalist writes to describe what some folks are doing on Tuesday. It is not academic and does not prove anything. I looked at footnote [3]. It is Anglican and again not academic, even though it is hosted at an academic site. So it does not reference anything other than what the author has heard of.
So the problem here is a sort of original research, where the person who wrote the above line put together some pious thoughts and created a sentence that is really not true.
The article seems to assume that Shrove Tuesday is some sort of universal 'thing' which because of its date is superimposed over another sort of universal thing "Mardi gras" which it is not the same as. And neither "Shrove Tuesday" nor "Mardi gras" are "observed" or "celebrated" as religious days in the sense that say Christmas or Ash Wednesday are observed. They are cultural concepts that arose in a religious culture.
I suggest that this article be trimmed of its whimsy and its imperialism. -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 00:57, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
No strong keep Mardi Gras as is. The term 'Mardi Gras' is widely used in many non-Anglo societies - most who have never heard of Strove / Pancake Tuesday. 'Mardi Gras' has increasing usage in Western Societies. B20097 ( talk) 21:17, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
When I search for this article, the short description that comes up reads exactly "Day in February or March preceding Ash Wednesday}fun at with a motel hotel". Please can this error be fixed Mrmariomaster ( talk) 11:46, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
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This needs a link from poo
It is done. GusGus 21:43, 2004 Feb 25 (UTC)
I would have to vote, Shrove Tuesday is on its own. Being raised in the Episcopal Church I have always heard the term Shrove Tuesday even before I herd of Mardi Gras. I feel that the root of the celebration is the same but they have different feelings associated with them. Most people feel that Mardi Gras is a celebration just for the fun of it with a historical religious root that many have forgotten. Mardi Gras is also a week long event that ends on Shrove Tuesday. I think that most people who are familiar with Shrove Tuesday would feel that it is mainly a religious day to prepare for lent. The feast before the fast.
I'm new here, but i'll put in my two cents worth. The name in the US is not "Fat Tuesday", rather that is an OCCASIONALLY tolerated translation of same. That is, "Mardi Gras" is far more common, and probably came first.
Aside from in Seattle, I have rarely HEARD "Fat Tuesday" actually. And I have *never* heard "Shrove" or "Shriven" - until I went googling around yesterday! I would say that for most people in the US, parties and festivals call "Mardi Gras", while more serious or quasi-religious contexts use "the night before Lent". Even at a church supper last night, everyone was calling it "the night before Lent". No "Shrove", no "Fat" anything.
Nor had I ever heard of "Pancake Day" before either, but something is brewing this year - I saw *6* local churches having "pancake supper"s last night; google caches reveal that last year most of them were simply "pot lucks", no mention of pancakes.
Jumping on the bandwagon, IHOP (chain resto) served *FREE* pancakes all day yesterday! A spokesman confirmed that this was the first time they've ever done that.
I suspect that within 2-3 years, the term "Pancake Day" will start to pop up in the US. If some celeb starts dropping it, perhaps earlier.
Cheers
xxxxx
Well, just to add my two cents: In Southern Germany we celebrate Fat Thursday (= Schmotziger Dunnschtig). "Schmotzig" means fatty/greasy and points to cookies baked in a lot of fat (some types of pancakes = "Fasnachtsküchle" or the "Berliner" = the donut without the hole).
Just a note for anyone who might consider adding alternative translations of "Fat Tuesday": for those not familiar with the US "Mardi Gras", the usual translation in the States is "Fat Tuesday" and that is also an alternative name for the festival. I've ventured the opinion that the "gras" could actually be better translated literally as "greasy" or "fatty", but this seems to be a matter of disagreement. My idea is that "gras", which can mean "fatty" (as in "cheveux gras" seen on bottles of shampoo for greasy hair), refers to the butter and lard people ate on that day, before giving it up, thus "fatty Tuesday". However, other people believe that "gras", which can mean "overweight", refers to the weight people put on eating that food, thus "overweight Tuesday". To me this seems only a matter of opinion, but as the name "Fat Tuesday" is so common, I'm being told my opinion, although a few others share it, is irrelevant and unhelpful and should not be added to the page. As I don't know if I'm right and it's just an alternative idea, I'm removing it, but I thought I'd write a note here in case anyone else had the same idea. Saintswithin 10:21, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
As a catholic australian, this day is also referred in my family as pancake tuesday. Not sure how universal it is and is undoubtably from the irish name for it. --agrosquid
I'm a Newfoundlander and we always have referred to it as Pancake Tuesday. I think this can and should be reflected in the article here, especially given the obvious wide usage of Pancake Tuesday among different cultures that observe the day. It can be mentioned very briefly and without much problem. I see no problem with adding this small tidbit of necessary information. -- Bentonia School ( talk) 10:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
With the praiseworthy Wikipedian penchant for a punctilious accuracy that rises above mere outworn tradition and non-American usage, shouldn't this more correctly have been at Shriven Tuesday and, following the general practice, eliminating a redirect from "Shrove Tuesday"? The verb, surely is "shrive, shrove, shriven" "shrove" being the past tense but "shriven" being the preferable past participle to be employed as an adjective according to Wikipedia standards. By settling upon an exquisitely correct title, wouldn't we be demonstrating the superior dependability of our information? Perhaps this would be suitably determined by a vote. -- Wetman 04:58, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Wouldn't the british conjugation be "shrive, shrove, shrived" actually? They are not wont to use the -en forms as often as us Yanks - cf. use of "has drived" where an American would say "has driven".
Come to think of it, I'm even surprised they use the O form in the past tense. As with
US: drive, drove, driven UK: drive, drived, drived
wouldn't a Brit be inclined to use "shrived" as the simple past?
In any case, I do agree with your point about needing the participle, but you can't "correct" a term which has been wrong for 100s of years. I'm sure there are other such examples.
Cheers
xxxxx
I know this is woefully out of date, but I've never heard a literate (i.e. over the age of 5 or so particularly) Brit say 'drived' - the above is tosh. 87.112.67.243 15:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
^^^ - Indeed, "drived" is not used by any Englishman over the age of 4. You cannot change the name (i.g. Shrove Tuesday) due to bad spelling/grammar/verb conjugation as it is no longer a sentence, therefore it cannot be corrected.
87.74.10.145 08:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I argue that "Shrove Tuesday" ought to be maintained as a separate article regardless of etymology for the strict and simple reason that this is how it's referred to in many regions, including the region I am from (the southeastern United States, specifically North Carolina). Many Protestant Christian churches here which have no Lenten fast from meat still celebrate Shrove Tuesday *by that name* with at least a secular event; hence merging this with Mardi Gras might provoke further confusion. 199.90.32.252 02:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)H. Fisher
The term "Shrove Tuesday" is by far the more widely used term in the English speaking world - sometimes, the term "Pancake Day" is used as a synonym for the day, but purists will almost certainly insist that the day gets called "Shrove Tuesday". ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 19:46, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
I am not saying that my question is true, or a fact but it really seems that Christians stole Shrove Tuesday from Pagans, or Balts when Lithuanian king Mindaugas was Baptised, and all of the Lithuanian kingdom was turned/converted to Christianity although they were Pagans. In England, the time of Shrove Tuesday tradition begining was 1445, which was 200 years later after the baptism (1251). In old times, i guess that the spreading of the Shrove tuesday would have went from eastern europe to the celtic (western) europe slowly. Basically i would think that hes a traitor or something and if anyone knows any information about these times, please tell me! User:Wykis
Still, most traditions are being held in Lithuania and Latvia, as well as Poland and other countries around.
Raised as a catholic in australia, 'pancake tuesday' was the name of the day used for kids, we still use the old english 'shrove' among adults, so both is acceptable. The reason was to use up certain 'luxury' foods before giving them up for lent. I really wouldn't say australians refer to the day as 'pancake tuesday' exclusively.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.7.38 ( talk • contribs)
Shrove Tuesday is when you prepare your self for Lent to start. You would eat pancakes to fill yourself up with sugar because you are fasting because Jesus was in the desert for forty days and was not tempted but he was pushed to be tempted.
Why was the score of the race deleted? Isopropyl 03:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
...is a crepe? Sherurcij ( talk) ( Terrorist Wikiproject) 23:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
When I was living in Scotland, the local Dundonians told me that the reason for eating pancakes on "Shrove Tuesday", was to use up the eggs and milk in the house the night before Lent starts (time of penance and giving up of luxuries). I think something to that effect should be added to the article, because to this point that connection is not clear. Yahawena 20:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)Els
I'm suggesting a merge or other possible reorganisation at talk:Mardi Gras. Stevage 11:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
No way. We are researching Shrove Tuesday for an Australian Catholic school assignment. Mardi Gras isn't relevant to us, though we'd love to visit and participate in one! 210.49.178.252 07:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
No, absolutely not... cross links could be added, but Shrove Tuesday has a character and a tradition all its own, distinct from Mardi Gras, though both recognize the last day before Lent.
So can we remove the suggestion to merge? W00tfest99 19:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Agree with removing the suggestion to merge, can someone do this? 194.80.32.10 20:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to join the chorus of disagreement. Mardi Gras is a festival to the rest of the world, Shrove Tuesday is a day to make enough pancakes to start involuntary bulimia. The two just happen to be on the same day now, they have diverged so far. Big Moira 02:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Merge flag removed, consensus quite clearly against (and a year old) 79.72.85.150 ( talk) 21:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
This isn't quite an accurate description of fastnachts. They are like a donut, but there is no hole, and they are less sweet. Also, there is never glaze, but they are sometimes dusted with powdered sugar. We refer to Fat Tuesday as Fastnacht (or Fastnaucht) Day, Fastnacht meaning "Fast Night."
reference: http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?S=2917435 "Some fastnachts are made with yeast, some with potatoes and yeast, and some without either. They call for lard if available. Traditionally, all fastnachts were made with, and fried in, lard" (in order to use up the house's lard befor Lent).
Actually, living in Lancaster county, commercially, glazed is what we predominantly find (and sell out the fastest) I don't know if this is technically correct for the historical culture.
Trex005 14:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
As an Australian, I have never heard of Pancake Day or Shrove Tuesday refered to as Mardi Gras. I think merging the two titles would make it more confusing for non-Americans to find what information they are looking for. When I hear Mardi Gras, I think of the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, or the Mardi Gras held in Rio. I had no idea that some people thought that Mardi Gras and Pancake Day were the same thing!
Some more investigation would need to be done into this to see if it is really true of most commonwealth countries, but here in Canada we seem to follow the tradition under the UK, Ireland and Australia heading for the most part, calling it "Shrove Tuesday" or occasionally "Pancake Tuesday". Mardi Gras is associated with the New Orleans or Brazilian festivities. The unique tradition here is that we tend to put maple syrup rather than icing sugar on the pancakes. Anyways, perhaps the title for that section should be changed to "Commonwealth Countries" if my suspicion that practices across the commonwealth are mostly similar. Opinions? Renzo 80 15:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Here in Northern Ireland I've never known Shrove Tuesday to be a holiday, contrary to what the article states Easter Monday/Tuesday is the official Easter related public holiday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.249.105 ( talk) 18:23, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
According to the discussion above "Pancake Tuesday" and "Pancake Day" are both used roughly equally, but in different areas. Danikat ( talk) 19:52, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Fastnacht day is a very specific cultures celebration. It may be for the same event, but I don't think they should be merged. Maybe just linked to each other. Trex005 14:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Fasnacht is a very important cultural event in Switzerland (like Carnival is to Rio or Venice) and has nothing to do with Pancakes or the English holiday beyond the fact that it also occurs before Ash Wednesday. Additionally, I'm sure much can be said about both topics, and they would probably each grow to be too large to keep in one article anyway. Let's just link to them in either article but allow each to remain separate. Goldfishbutt 04:46, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree as well - do not merge Fasnacht with Shrove Tuesday, as Fasnacht has different roots. Never in 25 years in southern Germany have I heard of any link between Fasnacht and pancakes...
I grew up entirely in the US. We referred to it as Shrove Tuesday before I knew of the connection to Mardi Gras. For reference, I grew up in the Houston area in the Episcopal Church. We celebrated with a pancake supper at the church every year. I don't recall actually referring to the day as Pancake Day, though. In fact, we used the terminology separately, with Mardi Gras just being an overall celebration and Shrove Tuesday more tied to the religious aspects. I realize my info is not officially a reliable source, but it was jarring to me to see us excluded from the term. I wonder if perhaps it was an Episcopal thing, what with the Anglican connection? I see someone else mentioned Episcopal up there. -- Siradia ( talk) 04:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Can we add detail of the current year's date to the top of the page?
When I come to a holiday/date-related page from a search engine I am usually looking for the date for the current or coming year, so - agrandising myself to a typical Wikipedia user - it would be very useful to have the dates for the current and coming year at the top of the page. If you backed holiday/date-related pages with a list/table of dates you could generate that quite easily.
Willllll ( talk) 04:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I know this is rather trivial, it's in the same vein as the annual restocking of Creme Eggs before Easter: Jif, a brand of lemon juice (sold in plastic lemons as well as bottles) have advertised for Pancake Tuesday in Ireland (and probably UK) with the tagline of "Jif Lemon Day, have you forgotten something?" (plate with lemon juice, no pancakes) to remind people to lay in some lemon juice for the occasion.
zoney ♣ talk 00:13, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
This television advertising was run in South East England when I was young. I can't remember exactly when probably late 80's or early 90's but I remember the advert very clearly. I could never understand why people didn't just buy lemons! P.S. The advert also indicates that "pancake day" was the usual colloquial term for Shrove Tuesday at the time in this area or else the marketing men would probably have said "Jif Lemon Tuesday" instead.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.40.25 ( talk) 16:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
We do not need to clutter the article up with pieces of trivial information such as that one. Most Wikipedians (myself included) are against Wikipedia going in for advertising (after all, see Wikipedia: What Wikipedia is not; so it is best if this article simply concentrates on the more academic, historical and cultural aspects of dissemination of knowledge about Shrove Tuesday. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 16:29, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
I have never heard anybody call Pancake Tuesday "Shrove Tuesday" in Ireland. I notice the article which claims this is not Irish and also terms Ireland as part of something called the "British Isles". I'm removing this nonsense immediately. 86.42.84.131 ( talk) 11:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
It is called "Pancake Tuesday" in Ireland. I was born and raised in Ireland as were my parents. I am 57 years old. I have a TV and radio and a computer. I read Irish newspapers. I have travelled widely in Ireland. if it was called Shrove Tuesday here, don't you think I might have noticed by now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.218.46 ( talk) 19:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Use of the term "British Isles" is controversial though, whatever about the history of the term being purely a geographic term. It's rather silly to pretend no-one's going to have any problem with Ireland being termed on of the British Isles. The term should be avoided where it is unnecessary (indeed often what is meant is specifically UK and Ireland, i.e. not necessarily Isle of Man, etc.) zoney ♣ talk 11:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
With all due respect, I am Polish and I know what we celebrate. The Polish people do not celebrate "Fat Thursday", there is no such thing. Paczkis are eaten on "Fat Tuesday". I challenge you to find anyone who is celebrating "Fat Thursday". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jedam ( talk • contribs) 17:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
David and Lesgles, are either one of you Polish? Lesgles, you provided the link to the Polish version of the same incorrect article that exists in English, which doesn't prove anything. When I offered the challenge, I meant for someone to find a news article celebrating "Fat Thursday" 2009. Poles don't celebrate "Fat Thursday". I am a 45 year old, Polish American, Roman Catholic and I know my traditions. Here are some resources: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9405E0D7103CF933A25751C0A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1 or http://reliableanswers.com/general/celebrate_fat_tuesday.asp or http://easteuropeanfood.about.com/od/fattuesday/Fat_Tuesday.htm or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P5t9M6vIRs Jedam 01:33, 18 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jedam ( talk • contribs)
I humbly stand corrected! In all my years, I had never heard any Polish family, friends, or relatives mention "Fat Thursday"; it has always been "Fat Tuesday". (How far does this celebration actually date back?) This experience has taught me a valuable lesson about patience and discernment. I apologize. And thank you for not taking that gauntlet (see above) and chopping off my head! You have all been very patient and understanding. Thank you. Therese Jedam 23:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
There's an image of the "Mardi Gras Flag" under "Dates". What is this, and what relevance does it have? Bagunceiro ( talk) 14:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I've never ever heard of anyone in the UK eating pancakes with a "meat stew", not even in the past. 78.147.248.174 ( talk) 22:46, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm from Yorkshire and in my locality we traditionally do eat it with meat stew. It was a way of people using up all their meat, eggs and milk before lent. My family and I (as well as pretty much everyone I know) still eats pancakes with a beef stew and potatoes. It's only my southern-born father who introduced us to the sweet variety - and then only as a dessert. Do people actually have sweet pancakes as a main meal? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
81.145.139.130 (
talk) 09:09, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
In answer to the above: yes, some people do have just sweet pancakes as a meal. That was the tradition when I was growing up in the 80s, my parents were from Northumberland and the West Midlands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.242.36 ( talk) 13:49, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
With so much coverage of what the day is called as Mardi Gras (and associated terms) and how it is celebrated in Catholic countries and communities, this article loses focus. Shrove Tuesday was part of a Protestant tradition formed after the Reformation. There is a separate article on Mardi Gras, and the many celebrations, names, and foods of Catholic countries and ethnic communities do not need to be repeated here. That is too much to wade through. Also, the article circles around, repeating content about foods (pancakes) in the UK and Commonwealth countries, then about sports traditions, then more about food. It is very repetitious and needs serious editing.-- Parkwells ( talk) 16:30, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm from Catholic from Canada, and when we celebrated Shrove/Pancake Tuesday, we always baked coins into the pancakes. Does anyone else know about this tradition, was it isolated to us, or did other people do it as well, and what were its origins??? 94.100.23.52 ( talk) 11:27, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
In Finland and Sweden, the day is associated with the almond paste-filled semla pastry.
Should be changed to
In Finland and Sweden, the day is associated with the semla pastry filled with almond paste or whipped cream and jam.
Because the pastry is avaliable in 2 forms with these 2 fillings, not just with almond paste
Mobygirl1985 ( talk) 16:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
The pancake bell was moved from the corner of Huntress Row and Westborough to the Coorner of North Street and Westborough in Scarborough
92.17.135.220 ( talk) 19:07, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
Also known as Crepe Tuesday.
Michelle92e ( talk) 22:33, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Since the Pancake Race at Olney is the most famous Pancake Race in the United Kingdom, Olney could have had a a lot more prominence in the section "Festivities". ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 00:09, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
The early reference is to "English speaking countries" but then there is a contradiction. We read "especially Ireland, the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada " - fair enough, they are all English-speaking - but why is the reference then given to Germany and the Philippines? The language of Germany is German, and in the Philipinnes, it is Filipino, which is based on Tagalog. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 00:51, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Now that the dust has settled about mardi gras and jeudi gras and shriven etc, can we address the fact that this article is about Shrove Tuesday and not mardi gras, by noting that the lede goes on about pancakes before addressing the topic? Pancake Tuesday (which is as ancient a thing as "Turkey day" for American Thanksgiving) can be mentioned later, as a link to another article. -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 17:58, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
The sources cited for the pagan history link do not seem particularly scholarly - I wonder just how reliable that whole idea is. The Catholic Encyclopedia referenced indicates that the concept of Shrove Tuesday is older. Someone must have researched this. -- Beardo ( talk) 06:46, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
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I've found a reliable informative website, which is ranking on Bing and Yahoo search engines on 1st page (even on Google but not on 1st page) which have all the articles containing Shrove Tuesday, Pancake Day and Ash Wednesday. Thus, I want to edit some information here regarding Shrove Tuesday. People will let know about the website ( http://www.shrovetuesday.org/) which i'm discussing on it, If editors can edit the information from that website. Thus, it will be really helpful for the visitors, who'll the find the right information. Thanks Amar77711 ( talk) 20:38, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
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I have removed a false claim about the "Four Pillars" of Christianity. It had been refuted in the article, without making reference to a source. The source cited to bolster the false claim is not a reliable source for Christian doctrine, it is a secular, commercial purveyor of "business news". These reporters have no interest in fact-checking outside their milieu. I have replaced it with a source from the Orthodox Church. 2600:8800:1880:2B95:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 ( talk) 03:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
I'm afraid I messed something up. There was some vandalism today, probably from being a featured article. I tried reversing it, but it looks like an anonymous editor was trying to do the same thing at the same time. I'm going to give up, and hope someone smart enoughcan revert the changes all the way back. Fcrary ( talk) 23:25, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
The article suffers from being a mix of tourism and folklore. This is evident in the confusion over who has ever heard of it, and the difference between Shrove Tuesday and Mardi Gras; indeed this confusion starts in the first line. E.g. "Shrove Tuesday is observed by many Christians, including Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists and Roman Catholics,[2] who "make a special point of self-examination, of considering what wrongs they need to repent, and what amendments of life or areas of spiritual growth they especially need to ask God's help in dealing with."[3]" I looked at the first footnote ([2] and Roman Catholics are not mentioned anywhere in the article. The article is the sort of thing a town journalist writes to describe what some folks are doing on Tuesday. It is not academic and does not prove anything. I looked at footnote [3]. It is Anglican and again not academic, even though it is hosted at an academic site. So it does not reference anything other than what the author has heard of.
So the problem here is a sort of original research, where the person who wrote the above line put together some pious thoughts and created a sentence that is really not true.
The article seems to assume that Shrove Tuesday is some sort of universal 'thing' which because of its date is superimposed over another sort of universal thing "Mardi gras" which it is not the same as. And neither "Shrove Tuesday" nor "Mardi gras" are "observed" or "celebrated" as religious days in the sense that say Christmas or Ash Wednesday are observed. They are cultural concepts that arose in a religious culture.
I suggest that this article be trimmed of its whimsy and its imperialism. -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 00:57, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
No strong keep Mardi Gras as is. The term 'Mardi Gras' is widely used in many non-Anglo societies - most who have never heard of Strove / Pancake Tuesday. 'Mardi Gras' has increasing usage in Western Societies. B20097 ( talk) 21:17, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
When I search for this article, the short description that comes up reads exactly "Day in February or March preceding Ash Wednesday}fun at with a motel hotel". Please can this error be fixed Mrmariomaster ( talk) 11:46, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
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