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The article needs a description of a Brenneke slug. RPellessier | (Talk) 06:50, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I don't agree that this should be merged in Shotgun shell, but I think the minor slug articles would benefit from being merged into this, such as Brenneke slug, Foster slug, etc. Arthurrh 01:35, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with the proposed merge: There is enough information in the Brenneke slug article to justify itself. Additionally, if articles are merged, the differences between various shotgun slugs will be minimized, and users will be less inclined to add additional information about individaul slugs. Twanebo 23:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
This article describes the Brenneke slug as being a variant of the Foster slug, but the individual articles on each slug indicate that the Brenneke slug dates to the 1890's, and that the Foster slug was not invented until the mid 1900's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.91.83 ( talk) 17:45, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
This article claims that the 'rifling' on a Foster slug imparts spin, but the Foster slug article states that it does not. Which is it? 203.20.253.5 04:36, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I just happened by and noticed the lead changes tense twice and isn't very clear all around. I will try to tweak it but don't have time at present so if someone else gets a shot please do so.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 19:01, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
This article really needs some references - right now most of the info is unsourced. AliveFreeHappy ( talk) 00:09, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
It would be of great value if this article discussed the benefits of slugs as compared traditional rifles in generic terms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.146.159.115 ( talk) 03:57, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
A recent edit added a large paragraph directly into the "Use" section. It concerns an alleged study done by a company called Mountaintop Technologies.
The existing body of the section claimed that shotgun slugs provide better range while hunting. The new additions from the edit claim this to be false, and go on to claim the study proved it true. On top of this, rather than modifying the whole section to show the new information, it was added in such a manner that causes it to look more like a forum post, as if arguing with the existing information rather than just updating it.
As a final point, while it concerns a study done, there is no citation anywhere in the section. I was going to edit it to fit better on the page, without the argumentative nature, however I was unsure if the lack of citations concerning a study meant that the edit should simply be reverted.
Could someone more familiar with the guidelines concerning citations decide if it should stay?
Zamte ( talk) 05:35, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
The article states that all "sabot slugs" are of jacketed or monolithic copper construction. However, I am given to understand that Federal Cartridge Co. manufactures and sells a saboted shotgun slug in calibers 12 and 20 gauge that is an unjacketed projectile made of pure soft lead, about 0.58" caliber in 12 gauge, in a plastic sleeve, apparently intended for use with rifled barrels. I do not think that this is the first such design ever to have existed, and in fact the article mentions the old BRI designs from forty years ago.
Also, speaking of ammunition for shotguns that discharges a single large projectile contained in a protective sleeve of some kind, would the old Finnish hunter's trick of removing the lead birdshot from a shotgun shell and replacing it with a large (15-18mm) steel ball bearing wrapped in paper, ball bearing and wrapping thickness chosen carefully and fitted to the specific shotgun so that it will not damage the choke? This was, back in the Depression Era, a way for a hunter who might have had only a shotgun and not a rifle in his possession to hunt for elk or wild boar. It was said to be not very accurate, and could only be used effectively within 30-40m, but was much preferable to a pointy stick. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.41.40.24 ( talk) 17:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:42, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
I added a reference that stated that the projectile was spun. This edit has been repeatedly reverted to a flawed, inaccurate edit that does not reflect either the reference or reality. For one, this statement, "The actual purpose of these fins is solely to minimize the friction on both the barrel and projectile" is untrue. The fins impart spin that stabilizes the bullet. This is not gyroscopic stabilization, rather the reference says it corrects for imperfections in the slug. -- Winged Brick ( talk) 02:57, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Starting a new section to explain my reversion point-by-point: 1) "Ribs" are the preferred term per U.S. patent 2,414,863. They are also a more accurate description as 'fin' implies that they stabilize the slug by spinning it through the air. Rather, they act more like reverse rifling acting on the projectile in the bore, per the patent. It is also desirable to use the same nomenclature throughout the article. 2) Spin: The spin is, indeed, imparted on the projectile. Two separate styles of slug use external rifling to spin the projectiles. This spins them slowly and improves accuracy. This has been authoritatively demonstrated by the article I linked. 3) Range: The slug has no intrinsic range. It is wholly subjective and in the place of any statutory/manufacturers recommendation, or broad consensus, 'range' should be left out as arbitrary and, frankly, silly. 4) Choke wear: Manufacturers consistently state that the slug is SAFE to be fired from any choke. Modern choke is designed to withstand steel shot without damage. A lead slug that is DESIGNED to be shot safely through the choke does not wear the choke. That is, of course, unless you have a darned good reference that says it does. I need measurements and barrel life estimates. 5) Handloading: Wikipedia is not a reloading manual. I removed reloading suggestions. -- Winged Brick ( talk) 20:51, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
The long-standing English language convention has been to express shotgun loads in terms of ounces and grains. Likewise for rifle bullets, the long-standing English language convention has been to specify grains for rifle bullets. Changing to rounded metric units loses all the precision in terms of providing useful English language information. The 7/8 oz. slug is the lightest slug in common use. The 150 grain and 168 grain 30-06 bullets are typically within a tenth or two of a grain of these units. Converting to "rounded" metric units loses all precision, where the precision of the weight in grains becomes other than 150 gr and 168 gr. This is the English Language Wikipedia. The long-standing practice of using both grains and ounces for shotgun loads, and grains for rifle bullets are what all the English language reloading manuals are written in, too. Force-fitting an ill-fitted metric rounding loses all the precisions that are required. As noted in the article, there is no substitution of components when reloading shotgun shells and slugs. The pressures are too close to the maximum. Introducing approximations to very precise English units is simply dangerous. Force-fitting metric rounded data is simply not a way to maintain understanding of the folly of not following longstanding convention. The English units for precise grains and ounces must remain as the primary units, with metric conversions being secondary. The English language shotgun shell reloading books are not written in Metric units. Have restored the English units to prevent misleading readers. Miguel Escopeta ( talk) 16:15, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
A member of the
Guild of Copy Editors,
Miniapolis, reviewed a version of this article for copy editing on April 20, 2020. However, a major copy edit was inappropriate at that time because of the issues specified below, or the other tags now found on this article. Once these issues have been addressed, and any related tags have been cleared, please tag the article once again for {{
copyedit}}. The Guild welcomes all editors with a good grasp of English. Visit our
project page if you are interested in joining! Please address the following issues as well as any other cleanup tags before re-tagging this article with copyedit: Copyvio concerns |
The article needs a description of a Brenneke slug. RPellessier | (Talk) 06:50, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I don't agree that this should be merged in Shotgun shell, but I think the minor slug articles would benefit from being merged into this, such as Brenneke slug, Foster slug, etc. Arthurrh 01:35, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with the proposed merge: There is enough information in the Brenneke slug article to justify itself. Additionally, if articles are merged, the differences between various shotgun slugs will be minimized, and users will be less inclined to add additional information about individaul slugs. Twanebo 23:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
This article describes the Brenneke slug as being a variant of the Foster slug, but the individual articles on each slug indicate that the Brenneke slug dates to the 1890's, and that the Foster slug was not invented until the mid 1900's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.91.83 ( talk) 17:45, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
This article claims that the 'rifling' on a Foster slug imparts spin, but the Foster slug article states that it does not. Which is it? 203.20.253.5 04:36, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I just happened by and noticed the lead changes tense twice and isn't very clear all around. I will try to tweak it but don't have time at present so if someone else gets a shot please do so.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 19:01, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
This article really needs some references - right now most of the info is unsourced. AliveFreeHappy ( talk) 00:09, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
It would be of great value if this article discussed the benefits of slugs as compared traditional rifles in generic terms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.146.159.115 ( talk) 03:57, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
A recent edit added a large paragraph directly into the "Use" section. It concerns an alleged study done by a company called Mountaintop Technologies.
The existing body of the section claimed that shotgun slugs provide better range while hunting. The new additions from the edit claim this to be false, and go on to claim the study proved it true. On top of this, rather than modifying the whole section to show the new information, it was added in such a manner that causes it to look more like a forum post, as if arguing with the existing information rather than just updating it.
As a final point, while it concerns a study done, there is no citation anywhere in the section. I was going to edit it to fit better on the page, without the argumentative nature, however I was unsure if the lack of citations concerning a study meant that the edit should simply be reverted.
Could someone more familiar with the guidelines concerning citations decide if it should stay?
Zamte ( talk) 05:35, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
The article states that all "sabot slugs" are of jacketed or monolithic copper construction. However, I am given to understand that Federal Cartridge Co. manufactures and sells a saboted shotgun slug in calibers 12 and 20 gauge that is an unjacketed projectile made of pure soft lead, about 0.58" caliber in 12 gauge, in a plastic sleeve, apparently intended for use with rifled barrels. I do not think that this is the first such design ever to have existed, and in fact the article mentions the old BRI designs from forty years ago.
Also, speaking of ammunition for shotguns that discharges a single large projectile contained in a protective sleeve of some kind, would the old Finnish hunter's trick of removing the lead birdshot from a shotgun shell and replacing it with a large (15-18mm) steel ball bearing wrapped in paper, ball bearing and wrapping thickness chosen carefully and fitted to the specific shotgun so that it will not damage the choke? This was, back in the Depression Era, a way for a hunter who might have had only a shotgun and not a rifle in his possession to hunt for elk or wild boar. It was said to be not very accurate, and could only be used effectively within 30-40m, but was much preferable to a pointy stick. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.41.40.24 ( talk) 17:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Shotgun slug. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:42, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
I added a reference that stated that the projectile was spun. This edit has been repeatedly reverted to a flawed, inaccurate edit that does not reflect either the reference or reality. For one, this statement, "The actual purpose of these fins is solely to minimize the friction on both the barrel and projectile" is untrue. The fins impart spin that stabilizes the bullet. This is not gyroscopic stabilization, rather the reference says it corrects for imperfections in the slug. -- Winged Brick ( talk) 02:57, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Starting a new section to explain my reversion point-by-point: 1) "Ribs" are the preferred term per U.S. patent 2,414,863. They are also a more accurate description as 'fin' implies that they stabilize the slug by spinning it through the air. Rather, they act more like reverse rifling acting on the projectile in the bore, per the patent. It is also desirable to use the same nomenclature throughout the article. 2) Spin: The spin is, indeed, imparted on the projectile. Two separate styles of slug use external rifling to spin the projectiles. This spins them slowly and improves accuracy. This has been authoritatively demonstrated by the article I linked. 3) Range: The slug has no intrinsic range. It is wholly subjective and in the place of any statutory/manufacturers recommendation, or broad consensus, 'range' should be left out as arbitrary and, frankly, silly. 4) Choke wear: Manufacturers consistently state that the slug is SAFE to be fired from any choke. Modern choke is designed to withstand steel shot without damage. A lead slug that is DESIGNED to be shot safely through the choke does not wear the choke. That is, of course, unless you have a darned good reference that says it does. I need measurements and barrel life estimates. 5) Handloading: Wikipedia is not a reloading manual. I removed reloading suggestions. -- Winged Brick ( talk) 20:51, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
The long-standing English language convention has been to express shotgun loads in terms of ounces and grains. Likewise for rifle bullets, the long-standing English language convention has been to specify grains for rifle bullets. Changing to rounded metric units loses all the precision in terms of providing useful English language information. The 7/8 oz. slug is the lightest slug in common use. The 150 grain and 168 grain 30-06 bullets are typically within a tenth or two of a grain of these units. Converting to "rounded" metric units loses all precision, where the precision of the weight in grains becomes other than 150 gr and 168 gr. This is the English Language Wikipedia. The long-standing practice of using both grains and ounces for shotgun loads, and grains for rifle bullets are what all the English language reloading manuals are written in, too. Force-fitting an ill-fitted metric rounding loses all the precisions that are required. As noted in the article, there is no substitution of components when reloading shotgun shells and slugs. The pressures are too close to the maximum. Introducing approximations to very precise English units is simply dangerous. Force-fitting metric rounded data is simply not a way to maintain understanding of the folly of not following longstanding convention. The English units for precise grains and ounces must remain as the primary units, with metric conversions being secondary. The English language shotgun shell reloading books are not written in Metric units. Have restored the English units to prevent misleading readers. Miguel Escopeta ( talk) 16:15, 19 May 2020 (UTC)