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Shiva Etiquette was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 28 January 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Shiva (Judaism). The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Estherdvorkin. Peer reviewers: M.mills3, AnneD17.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Suggest external link to Jewish Funerals, Burial and Mourning [located at www.Jewish-funerals.org].
Maybe helpful: JewFAQ It's a favorite site of mine. Guy M ( talk) 17:40, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
The last sentence in the "exo-marriages" section should be stricken, as it's an unsupported opinion that seems to refer entirely to the author's home community. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.163.232.140 ( talk) 03:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
The entire section, now entitled "Marriages to non-jew," has no place here. If it does, then all relevant areas of Wikipedia need to be updated with things that, for example, a Muslim might do in some similar circumstances. For example, in the article about assault rifles, there ought to be a section about how Muslims use them to fire in the air during weddings. Of course, that makes no sense for an assault rifle article. Likewise, that some small orthodox Jewish community has a practice of pretending mourning in the case of exogamy, is irrelevant to the description of shiva. It serves only to demonize Jews and I'd hazard a guess why it was entered here in the first place. Moreover, the citation given is the silliest of all; it is to an obscure online mailing list. I'm going to wait 7 days and then remove the section entirely.
Icitrom (
talk)
11:53, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
In any of the paragraphs that being with "traditionally", bear in mind that the customs may vary wildly between communities and families. Binba 07:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
The original version was very wishy-washy, ommitted many crucial concepts, and gave a lot of emotional baggage inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. I have stuck to the facts. The references were not actually being referred to, so I removed these. JFW | T@lk 23:45, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
Question From A Reader:
I am Orthodox and have never yet heard a woman recite the kaddish. I do not know of any Orthodox congregations in which this would be allowed either. Which congregations are part of the "growing" Orthodox community to allow such? Which rabinical seminaries are accepting this practice and presenting it as acceptable to there students? This is a question of true curiosity, and not an attack on the writer.
I suggest renaming the article "Shiv'ah", since that is the spelling usied in the article itself. Any objections? Michagal 16:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I object. Any number of spellings are correct. It is merely an English representation of sounds in another language. The article might mention each of the variety of possible spellings. But the spelling, "shiva" seems fine, to me, for the title. It is short, simple, and a common spelling. Bus stop 16:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
There have been a few occasions where I've heard the term "sitting Shiva" used as a general expression and not necessarily a direct reference to the ritual. An example of this can be found in (of all places) the movie Men in Black II where a talking dog (don't ask) uses the term in the apparent context of "You OK?" It's possible the film might be misusing the term, but if it is sometimes used as a general expression that might be worth noting. 23skidoo ( talk) 14:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I remember seeing in Babylon 5 commander Ivanova sitting Shiva for her father -- don't remember episode, just that it was in 1st season. 76.167.180.208 ( talk) 02:33, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Is "sitting seven (days)" correctly written Shibeth Sheba (שֶׁבֶת שֶׁבַע)? Or might one use the alternate word for seven Shibath (שִׁבְעַת)? Or Shabath (שָׁבַת)? Is there any evidence that the common sounds of shibeth and shibath are the origin of the practice? And consequently, that Sitting Shiva is anciently related to Jubilee (49)? Or Shabua (שָׁבֻעַ) (Feast of the 49 weeks)? Original research, I know, which is why I'm asking on the talk page. Anybody? Anybody? -- TheEditrix2 00:54, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Has anyone ever considered possible historic cultural links between Jewish shiva and the Hindu god Shiva? As I understand, Shiva represents death and destruction, among other things. So there is an obvious functional connection between the two shivas beyond just the similar-sounding words themselves. I really don't know if there's anything to this. Nojamus ( talk) 17:20, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
I doubt we need three separate sections, one after the other, defining "Shiva" to mean "Seven." The initial reading of the word (with Hebrew writing) might be overlooked, or not connected to the concept, so it might make sense to leave one more in, but we don't need that third. Kilyle ( talk) 08:59, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
Hello all! I am an undergraduate student at the University of Miami. During this semester, I enrolled in a class which focuses on the religion of death and dying. Throughout the class, we discuss many different religious beliefs centered around the process of death, burial, etc. On top of this, one of our projects is to pick a Wikipedia article of interest to us and make contributions. I am not personally familiar with the exact process of shiva, however, I have been doing extensive reading and have asked for help from my local Rabbi who runs our Chabad at the University of Miami. I am working hard to ensure that any contributions made are from trusted sources in order to avoid confusion and the addition of false information for future readers.
During the next few weeks I will be adding information, citations, and editing the page. Since this is my first time doing so, please let me know if there are any issues in my work or if the additions/lay out are not to your liking. I will change them as soon as possible, as I want to ensure everyone is on board with the work being done. In my sandbox, under week 7, there is a ton of information I have gathered that I would like to add. Feel free to leave comments/suggestions under there as well. Also, if anyone is familiar with any articles or journals that may help with significant contributions, I would love to read them in order to add the best content possible. Looking forward to collaborating with everyone! Estherdvorkin ( talk) 18:51, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Wikipedia requires a Neutral Point of View, replacing God with "G-d" is unencyclopedic, it shows a reverence that violates NPV. If this is done again, I will report the editor for violating wikipedia policy, which may result in editor's editing privileges being blocked. 73.166.250.111 ( talk)
The fourth sentence states “Shiva is considered the third stage” (of what the second sentence states are the “five stages”). Given the listing of stages that appears in the section "Stages of bereavement," it is not clear how shiva could be third of the five, unless the five are understood as Aninut, keriah, shiva, sheloshim, and yahrzeit (or yizkor). However, the section “Stages of bereavement” suggests keriah is a part of Aninut. If so, keriah would not be a separate stage, and shiva would not be the third stage. Furthermore, the section “Stages of bereavement” itself states “Following Aninut is shiva...” and that would make shiva the second stage and not the third stage. It seems either the statement that “Shiva is considered the third stage” needs to be changed or the other content needs to be clarified.! WEAbshire ( talk) 14:42, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
There should be an added section of the importance and custom of consoling the bereaved which is lengthy explained in various Jewish sources -- Rashba ( talk) 23:19, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Shiva Etiquette was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 28 January 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Shiva (Judaism). The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Estherdvorkin. Peer reviewers: M.mills3, AnneD17.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Suggest external link to Jewish Funerals, Burial and Mourning [located at www.Jewish-funerals.org].
Maybe helpful: JewFAQ It's a favorite site of mine. Guy M ( talk) 17:40, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
The last sentence in the "exo-marriages" section should be stricken, as it's an unsupported opinion that seems to refer entirely to the author's home community. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.163.232.140 ( talk) 03:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
The entire section, now entitled "Marriages to non-jew," has no place here. If it does, then all relevant areas of Wikipedia need to be updated with things that, for example, a Muslim might do in some similar circumstances. For example, in the article about assault rifles, there ought to be a section about how Muslims use them to fire in the air during weddings. Of course, that makes no sense for an assault rifle article. Likewise, that some small orthodox Jewish community has a practice of pretending mourning in the case of exogamy, is irrelevant to the description of shiva. It serves only to demonize Jews and I'd hazard a guess why it was entered here in the first place. Moreover, the citation given is the silliest of all; it is to an obscure online mailing list. I'm going to wait 7 days and then remove the section entirely.
Icitrom (
talk)
11:53, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
In any of the paragraphs that being with "traditionally", bear in mind that the customs may vary wildly between communities and families. Binba 07:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
The original version was very wishy-washy, ommitted many crucial concepts, and gave a lot of emotional baggage inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. I have stuck to the facts. The references were not actually being referred to, so I removed these. JFW | T@lk 23:45, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
Question From A Reader:
I am Orthodox and have never yet heard a woman recite the kaddish. I do not know of any Orthodox congregations in which this would be allowed either. Which congregations are part of the "growing" Orthodox community to allow such? Which rabinical seminaries are accepting this practice and presenting it as acceptable to there students? This is a question of true curiosity, and not an attack on the writer.
I suggest renaming the article "Shiv'ah", since that is the spelling usied in the article itself. Any objections? Michagal 16:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I object. Any number of spellings are correct. It is merely an English representation of sounds in another language. The article might mention each of the variety of possible spellings. But the spelling, "shiva" seems fine, to me, for the title. It is short, simple, and a common spelling. Bus stop 16:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
There have been a few occasions where I've heard the term "sitting Shiva" used as a general expression and not necessarily a direct reference to the ritual. An example of this can be found in (of all places) the movie Men in Black II where a talking dog (don't ask) uses the term in the apparent context of "You OK?" It's possible the film might be misusing the term, but if it is sometimes used as a general expression that might be worth noting. 23skidoo ( talk) 14:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I remember seeing in Babylon 5 commander Ivanova sitting Shiva for her father -- don't remember episode, just that it was in 1st season. 76.167.180.208 ( talk) 02:33, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Is "sitting seven (days)" correctly written Shibeth Sheba (שֶׁבֶת שֶׁבַע)? Or might one use the alternate word for seven Shibath (שִׁבְעַת)? Or Shabath (שָׁבַת)? Is there any evidence that the common sounds of shibeth and shibath are the origin of the practice? And consequently, that Sitting Shiva is anciently related to Jubilee (49)? Or Shabua (שָׁבֻעַ) (Feast of the 49 weeks)? Original research, I know, which is why I'm asking on the talk page. Anybody? Anybody? -- TheEditrix2 00:54, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Has anyone ever considered possible historic cultural links between Jewish shiva and the Hindu god Shiva? As I understand, Shiva represents death and destruction, among other things. So there is an obvious functional connection between the two shivas beyond just the similar-sounding words themselves. I really don't know if there's anything to this. Nojamus ( talk) 17:20, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
I doubt we need three separate sections, one after the other, defining "Shiva" to mean "Seven." The initial reading of the word (with Hebrew writing) might be overlooked, or not connected to the concept, so it might make sense to leave one more in, but we don't need that third. Kilyle ( talk) 08:59, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
Hello all! I am an undergraduate student at the University of Miami. During this semester, I enrolled in a class which focuses on the religion of death and dying. Throughout the class, we discuss many different religious beliefs centered around the process of death, burial, etc. On top of this, one of our projects is to pick a Wikipedia article of interest to us and make contributions. I am not personally familiar with the exact process of shiva, however, I have been doing extensive reading and have asked for help from my local Rabbi who runs our Chabad at the University of Miami. I am working hard to ensure that any contributions made are from trusted sources in order to avoid confusion and the addition of false information for future readers.
During the next few weeks I will be adding information, citations, and editing the page. Since this is my first time doing so, please let me know if there are any issues in my work or if the additions/lay out are not to your liking. I will change them as soon as possible, as I want to ensure everyone is on board with the work being done. In my sandbox, under week 7, there is a ton of information I have gathered that I would like to add. Feel free to leave comments/suggestions under there as well. Also, if anyone is familiar with any articles or journals that may help with significant contributions, I would love to read them in order to add the best content possible. Looking forward to collaborating with everyone! Estherdvorkin ( talk) 18:51, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Wikipedia requires a Neutral Point of View, replacing God with "G-d" is unencyclopedic, it shows a reverence that violates NPV. If this is done again, I will report the editor for violating wikipedia policy, which may result in editor's editing privileges being blocked. 73.166.250.111 ( talk)
The fourth sentence states “Shiva is considered the third stage” (of what the second sentence states are the “five stages”). Given the listing of stages that appears in the section "Stages of bereavement," it is not clear how shiva could be third of the five, unless the five are understood as Aninut, keriah, shiva, sheloshim, and yahrzeit (or yizkor). However, the section “Stages of bereavement” suggests keriah is a part of Aninut. If so, keriah would not be a separate stage, and shiva would not be the third stage. Furthermore, the section “Stages of bereavement” itself states “Following Aninut is shiva...” and that would make shiva the second stage and not the third stage. It seems either the statement that “Shiva is considered the third stage” needs to be changed or the other content needs to be clarified.! WEAbshire ( talk) 14:42, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
There should be an added section of the importance and custom of consoling the bereaved which is lengthy explained in various Jewish sources -- Rashba ( talk) 23:19, 25 January 2022 (UTC)