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Do we have a reliable source for the correct spelling of her first name? Laval ( talk) 11:12, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
I don't understand the casual tone of the speculation in this article. Is there any chance she's dead? Are police/FBI actively looking for her? 209.172.25.240 ( talk) 05:31, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Considering issues of BLP at other articles about Scientologists and sourcing issues that have been brought up, it is only fair to bring them up here. Technically speaking, based on general standards of BLP upheld at articles such as Grant Cardone, this article is essentially totally speculative and completely in violation of WP:BLP. I had a hell of a time simply having the simple fact of Cardone's membership in the church being retained, whereas in this article, we have speculation being presented as fact. For some reason, the editors who opposed the fact of Cardone's affiliation with Scientology have no such issues with the flagrant violations of BLP in this article. Something is amiss here. Laval ( talk) 00:37, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
Six years later, these BLP concerns remain. Whether or not Miscavige has been “disappeared” is irrelevant. Whether or not you find the “Church” of Scientology to be repugnant is also irrelevant. What is relevant, is that the BLP policy demands we use reliable sourcing for this (and every) article about a person presumed to be alive. This is not a soapbox. That man from Nantucket ( talk) 11:57, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
Wow. Not reliably sourced yet but if this story takes off (and it will, I'm sure) expect a lot more media coverage soon. Prioryman ( talk) 18:29, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
Check it out for yourselves: [1]
Numerous other outlets are running with this story. This shows just how screwed up this article is. Wikipedia is better than this tabloid rumormongering. Laval ( talk) 12:47, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
I'll just say this to all those who have insisted this article be nothing more than a receptacle of tabloid fodder: WP:BLP. Laval ( talk) 12:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
I've just read the Village Voice article, and it's pretty clear that it wasn't a cover-up, so I included some text to clarify this. The article is by Tony Ortega, but I don't think that's a problem, because even though he's not neutral, he's critical of Scientology, and the article helps to clear up the obvious questions about how it's possible that "three rifle shots to the chest and one to the head" could well be consistent with suicide, even if very unusual. The article also includes his discussions with the investigating officers, who were personally convinced that it was a suicide. -- Slashme ( talk) 13:36, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
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Looks like the Scientology Cult has their hands deep into trying to cover up her disappearance... even to the extend of editing Wikipedia. Please don't think that the public is stupid and that we haven't already deduced exactly who you are and where you're connecting from. You already know that we are Legion, we never forgive, we never forget, and we still run this. It's been over ten years and you still haven't learned your lesson... even after we took you to school.
Wikipedia isn't the place for you to spread your counter-truths... now run along. And for future reference, please understand that the public is on to the tactics of your violent, abusive and fraudulent religious cult. You're not fooling anyone. The only acceptable proof that Shelly hasn't been purposely disappeared by David and his version of the Gestapo, known as OSA, is to produce her.. and you won't do that. Why? Because you can't.
To everyone else, what you should know is that the CoS is known to go online and try to dispel the truth being told about them... spreading disinformation, propaganda and other lies on the web through forums, newsgroups and any number of other sources. Scientology is also widely known to "disappear" and "destroy" people, as confirmed by their own ex-members... and there are more ex-members than current members for a very good reason. The LAPD never proved that they actually saw or spoke to Shelly in person to confirm her status. The LAPD are bedfellowed with the CoS... just as the corrupt police in Clearwater and other places are. You can't trust law enforcement... especially when they're being bribed by this sick, dangerous cult.
In the spirit of the factual integrity required by Wikipedia, this article will be undergoing massive editing in accordance with what is and isn't factually known. Any edits thereafter should duly being in accordance with said rules or the changes will be reverted. This isn't the place for he-said, she-said B.S.
The second paragraph (re: Tom Cruise et. al) has at least been truncated at this time to more or less stay on topic. Everything else was excessive and already covered in previous articles regarding Tom Cruise, Scientology, etc.
FraudyMissCabbage ( talk) 13:35, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Reliable sources indicate that the LAPD investigated allegations that Shelly was missing or had disappeared, and met with Shelly, and then closed those complaints as unfounded. So, we should avoid referring to Shelly as having disappeared. The better terminology is that she has been out of the public eye. Cosmic Sans ( talk) 17:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Just say what we know: she was last seen in public in 2007; missing person reports were investigated, etc. Jonathunder ( talk) 21:17, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
The article states she was has not been seen in public since August 2007, but both references for that statement say 2006. Another sentence in the second paragraph states, "Shortly afterwards, in June 2006, she no longer made any appearances in public." So which is it, June 2006 or August 2007? Melonkelon ( talk) 03:02, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Greyfell removed the words "retreat into private life" with the edit summary of "subtle editorializing." Can you explain why? Diff: [ [3]] May His Shadow Fall Upon You Talk 13:17, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
The info box says Shelly has died, but I don't see confirmation of this in the BLP. It is my understanding that, as far as we know, her current life status is still unconfirmed and only based on speculation. Writethisway ( talk) 19:35, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 00:34, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Shelly Miscavige → Controversy on Michele Miscavige's public absence – Shelly Miscavige is only known for her public absence, as what all the reliable sources discuss. She is not notable as her own person and does not warrant her own article. The page is better contextually if moved to “Controversy of Michele/Shelly Miscavige’s public absence” to correctly represent the content of the page. Cupnoodle2021 ( talk) 20:11, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
The entire "Scientology career" section of the article, including everything about Tom Cruise and Miscavige's role in finding a girlfriend for him, is all sourced to the same book, Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief, by Lawrence Wright. Given how obviously controversial all of this is, I'm surprised that a single source is cited for so much factual material. Is all of that really undisputed fact? — BarrelProof ( talk) 05:59, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
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In Scientology, there is no "first lady". David Miscavige is overwhelmingly considered the one and only leader of Scientology — universally referred to as "COB" (or infrequently as "COB RTC"), but his wife Shelly was never presented as anything akin to the concept of First lady. The concept of a First lady is a revered honorary title indicating social status or respect and courtesy. Shelly Miscavige was David Miscavige's "Communicator", which is on the same level as an executive assistant, administrative assistant or secretary in corporate America. David Miscavige held national events by himself, without Shelly. The idea that someone married to the leader is always called "First lady" is incorrect. Grorp ( talk) 02:09, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Shelly Miscavige article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 24 March 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Do we have a reliable source for the correct spelling of her first name? Laval ( talk) 11:12, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
I don't understand the casual tone of the speculation in this article. Is there any chance she's dead? Are police/FBI actively looking for her? 209.172.25.240 ( talk) 05:31, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Considering issues of BLP at other articles about Scientologists and sourcing issues that have been brought up, it is only fair to bring them up here. Technically speaking, based on general standards of BLP upheld at articles such as Grant Cardone, this article is essentially totally speculative and completely in violation of WP:BLP. I had a hell of a time simply having the simple fact of Cardone's membership in the church being retained, whereas in this article, we have speculation being presented as fact. For some reason, the editors who opposed the fact of Cardone's affiliation with Scientology have no such issues with the flagrant violations of BLP in this article. Something is amiss here. Laval ( talk) 00:37, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
Six years later, these BLP concerns remain. Whether or not Miscavige has been “disappeared” is irrelevant. Whether or not you find the “Church” of Scientology to be repugnant is also irrelevant. What is relevant, is that the BLP policy demands we use reliable sourcing for this (and every) article about a person presumed to be alive. This is not a soapbox. That man from Nantucket ( talk) 11:57, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
Wow. Not reliably sourced yet but if this story takes off (and it will, I'm sure) expect a lot more media coverage soon. Prioryman ( talk) 18:29, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
Check it out for yourselves: [1]
Numerous other outlets are running with this story. This shows just how screwed up this article is. Wikipedia is better than this tabloid rumormongering. Laval ( talk) 12:47, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
I'll just say this to all those who have insisted this article be nothing more than a receptacle of tabloid fodder: WP:BLP. Laval ( talk) 12:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
I've just read the Village Voice article, and it's pretty clear that it wasn't a cover-up, so I included some text to clarify this. The article is by Tony Ortega, but I don't think that's a problem, because even though he's not neutral, he's critical of Scientology, and the article helps to clear up the obvious questions about how it's possible that "three rifle shots to the chest and one to the head" could well be consistent with suicide, even if very unusual. The article also includes his discussions with the investigating officers, who were personally convinced that it was a suicide. -- Slashme ( talk) 13:36, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Michele Miscavige. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Looks like the Scientology Cult has their hands deep into trying to cover up her disappearance... even to the extend of editing Wikipedia. Please don't think that the public is stupid and that we haven't already deduced exactly who you are and where you're connecting from. You already know that we are Legion, we never forgive, we never forget, and we still run this. It's been over ten years and you still haven't learned your lesson... even after we took you to school.
Wikipedia isn't the place for you to spread your counter-truths... now run along. And for future reference, please understand that the public is on to the tactics of your violent, abusive and fraudulent religious cult. You're not fooling anyone. The only acceptable proof that Shelly hasn't been purposely disappeared by David and his version of the Gestapo, known as OSA, is to produce her.. and you won't do that. Why? Because you can't.
To everyone else, what you should know is that the CoS is known to go online and try to dispel the truth being told about them... spreading disinformation, propaganda and other lies on the web through forums, newsgroups and any number of other sources. Scientology is also widely known to "disappear" and "destroy" people, as confirmed by their own ex-members... and there are more ex-members than current members for a very good reason. The LAPD never proved that they actually saw or spoke to Shelly in person to confirm her status. The LAPD are bedfellowed with the CoS... just as the corrupt police in Clearwater and other places are. You can't trust law enforcement... especially when they're being bribed by this sick, dangerous cult.
In the spirit of the factual integrity required by Wikipedia, this article will be undergoing massive editing in accordance with what is and isn't factually known. Any edits thereafter should duly being in accordance with said rules or the changes will be reverted. This isn't the place for he-said, she-said B.S.
The second paragraph (re: Tom Cruise et. al) has at least been truncated at this time to more or less stay on topic. Everything else was excessive and already covered in previous articles regarding Tom Cruise, Scientology, etc.
FraudyMissCabbage ( talk) 13:35, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Reliable sources indicate that the LAPD investigated allegations that Shelly was missing or had disappeared, and met with Shelly, and then closed those complaints as unfounded. So, we should avoid referring to Shelly as having disappeared. The better terminology is that she has been out of the public eye. Cosmic Sans ( talk) 17:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Just say what we know: she was last seen in public in 2007; missing person reports were investigated, etc. Jonathunder ( talk) 21:17, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
The article states she was has not been seen in public since August 2007, but both references for that statement say 2006. Another sentence in the second paragraph states, "Shortly afterwards, in June 2006, she no longer made any appearances in public." So which is it, June 2006 or August 2007? Melonkelon ( talk) 03:02, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Greyfell removed the words "retreat into private life" with the edit summary of "subtle editorializing." Can you explain why? Diff: [ [3]] May His Shadow Fall Upon You Talk 13:17, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
The info box says Shelly has died, but I don't see confirmation of this in the BLP. It is my understanding that, as far as we know, her current life status is still unconfirmed and only based on speculation. Writethisway ( talk) 19:35, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 00:34, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Shelly Miscavige → Controversy on Michele Miscavige's public absence – Shelly Miscavige is only known for her public absence, as what all the reliable sources discuss. She is not notable as her own person and does not warrant her own article. The page is better contextually if moved to “Controversy of Michele/Shelly Miscavige’s public absence” to correctly represent the content of the page. Cupnoodle2021 ( talk) 20:11, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
The entire "Scientology career" section of the article, including everything about Tom Cruise and Miscavige's role in finding a girlfriend for him, is all sourced to the same book, Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief, by Lawrence Wright. Given how obviously controversial all of this is, I'm surprised that a single source is cited for so much factual material. Is all of that really undisputed fact? — BarrelProof ( talk) 05:59, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:22, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:23, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 11:07, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
In Scientology, there is no "first lady". David Miscavige is overwhelmingly considered the one and only leader of Scientology — universally referred to as "COB" (or infrequently as "COB RTC"), but his wife Shelly was never presented as anything akin to the concept of First lady. The concept of a First lady is a revered honorary title indicating social status or respect and courtesy. Shelly Miscavige was David Miscavige's "Communicator", which is on the same level as an executive assistant, administrative assistant or secretary in corporate America. David Miscavige held national events by himself, without Shelly. The idea that someone married to the leader is always called "First lady" is incorrect. Grorp ( talk) 02:09, 24 January 2023 (UTC)