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OK, so the controversy around Severina's entry in the ESC has completely waned so I brought it down to deserved levels of explanation. I hope that there are fans out there who can expand Severina's page with actual information about her career, rather than absolutely disgraceful and unnecessary descriptions of her sex tape. We all have sex, hopefully, and we all know what it looks like, hopefully!!!
I don't know enough about Severina, but she's had a career span of about 18 years, and she deserves a bit more than just two paragraphs about her song sounding like Serbian music (which is just pathetic -- so what if it does sound like Serbian music -- dear God, if it sounded like Cuban music no one would say a thing, and Serbs make a decent minority in Croatia whilst there's very little Cubans!). So please, people, keep in mind that this is an encyclopedia, not a place for us to express our frustrations and intolerance. The only intolerance should exist toward bad English and biased information!!!
Thanks! -- Ogidog 03:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- - Ogidog, How much is Severina paying you ???? Your BLATANT CENSORSHIP of information on this page is the REAL DISGRACE !!! Who are YOU to decide what information is suitable and what is not ??? Who are YOU to decide what is unnecessary or what can or can't be put on this page. How Dare You act as if you own this page. What you are doing is nothing short of abusing the system to fulfill your personal agenda, which seems to be "damage control" on behalf of severina. Wikipedia is about free, limitless, truthful information, by the people - for the people ! Your contemptible actions of censoring and deleting truthful, accurate information to serve your own agenda goes against everything wikipedia stands for and is absolutely despicable !! The Sex scandal information you delete is not only accurate, its is also highly relevant. The Sex scandal itself is the only reason why 90% of people outside croatia know severina at all, as it was a world wide reported scandal, increasing her fame significantly in a matter of days ! But also, it is very important to get across the exact graphic nature of what the tape containes as it is only then can we get a REAL grasp of WHY this tape was such a BIG DEAL, and also on WHY it impacted her image SO MUCH ! The relevancy of this information cannot be denied by any fair person who knows anything about this story. Even the press had more details than this ! Relevant truthful information cannot be denied, and WILL NOT BE DENIED, especially by some self serving, information suppressing, disgrace of a user like YOU !
Your addition lacks neutrality, as it portrays only the negative part of the acceptance of the song. One would get the impression that beyond this last week, and the porn tape (as well as the use of the word infamous!!!), there is no career to Severina. I don't like Severina that much at all personally, and I may be annoyed by her existence, however, it's only fair to respect that she is a star, and if she doesn't have a full-blown entry, the people who are annoyed by her, yet do not think that her career deserves the space, should list the problem in one bullet -- something like "the win casued controversy in the purist part of the Croatian public".
Your addition is inappropriate in length due to the length of the entire entry. Write the whole article appropriate to her career, and then point out the two dark spots that overshadow the whole decade-worth of someone's career.
Where is the expert knowledge: Sanja Dolezal? Vecernji list? Please...
Ggidog 24.2.242.93 21:35, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't particularly care for Severina, but I endeavored to edit this article because I don't think that it presents an encyclopedic view of the entry. Severina is far more popular than the what the article implies, and far less scandal-ridden. It's important to note that she's a pop singer, and as such subject to ongoing critique (similar to Britney Spears, Madonna, etc.) so it is redundant to list all of the scandals or all of the criticisms.
Sorry, you cannot just pick random people to prove your point. Also, there is no such thing as "ekavian" or "jekavian" etc. EurowikiJ 17:17, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Then the entire section ought to be removed (which I'd also be happy with). The comments about the song being a 'provocation' weren't made by 'a number of' politicians: they were made by these two named individuals at the instigation of a populist tabloid in Croatia ( http://www.24sata.hr/articles/view/17549/).
This in turn was based on an erroneous claim that the song was in the ekavica dialect associated with Serbia (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Serbo-Croatian_language) rather than the ikavica dialect spoken in the Croatian regions from which the 'folklore' used in the song was supposedly drawn. 194.66.92.113 17:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a small edit war going on between EurowikiJ and 24.2.242.93. Any chance we can stop the edits and discuss the matter more fully here? Also, don't forget about WP:3RR. -- Yamla 22:37, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Oh and BTW, It is a shame that this discussion page has been turned into the 24.2.242.xxx's private sandbox. EurowikiJ 12:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I have marked the page as protected. I think the reasons are obvious. This is certainly not a permanent measure, I or any other admin can unprotect the page once the dispute is resolved. -- Yamla 04:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Sysops! please, add cs:severina into article, interwiki is important. THX -- Aktron 15:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
explicit language, undocumented article-- Greece666 22:54, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
It is very obvious that english is not your first language, and it's not your name that gives people that impression, it's your use of english in this article. I will now post every single change you made and show you why they are ALL subjective OR bad uses of english :
1. You changed reported world wide - to - reported worldwidely . If you knew english, you would know that "Worldwidely" IS NOT A WORD !!!! Stop changing it !
2. You changed she was doing all of this - to - she had a sexual intercourse . Several things wrong here; first, "sexual intercourse" is very specificly only 1 kind of sexual act, however severina did MANY kinds of sexual actsin the video, so it would be wrong to only single out the "intercourse" as the only thing she did or the only reason why it was "shocking", because i'm sure even if there was no "intercourse" on the video, as it still had all of the other sexual acts such a oral sex, handjob, etc, it would STILL be "shocking" to the public, so it's not about the "intercourse". Also even if it was, the english again in not correct, you cannot say had "a" sexual intercourse, so again its wrong, so stop changing it !
3. You changed the video was already widely available on the internet. However, while perhaps ruining her religious image.. - to - the video was already widely available on the internet. However, while the video-tape probably ruined her religious image.. There is NO NEED to say again "video-tape" when it is CLEAR that is what the subject is ! Its just POINTLESS REPETITION and is NOT NEEDED SO STOP CHANGING IT !!
4 You changed ..it actually boosted her career, especially internationally as the story was reported around the world and millions who had never heard of Severina now knew of her. - to - ..the negative publicity actually boosted her career, as the story was reported on an international level. Changing "it" (meaning the video) to "negative publicity" is not correct as "it" didn't mean publicity, "it" purely meant the video. and also calling news about the tape "negative publicity" is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE and has no place on a neutral article such as this. News is (meant to be) neutral, opinion articles can be subjective (negative or positive).
5. You Removed The new image has so far been successful for her. When people go through "scandals" and their whole images are DESTROYED, it can mean the end their career. In this case however, Severina has been able to adapt to a different image after the scandal, and this sentence is there to indicate that her career was not distroyed and that she has been able to be successful with a changed image ! Something completely true as she was even representing her country at Eurovision ! So stop changing it !!!
- I-jex 21 may 2006
i wont rv any more. anyone interested look here-- Greece666 22:56, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
i would also like to add, that the changes i tried to make to the article have little to do with language (except from some obvious mistakes, as the repetition of the word "the"). what i essentially tried to fix is POV and comments such as "the nation" referring to the croatian ppl, as if they were the only nation of the world. -- Greece666 22:49, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, I-jex, I'm sorry that for you sexual intercourse is "very specificly only 1 kind of sexual act", but check entry on sexual_intercourse and it may take your sex life to the new peaks!
I've added an external link to Severina's sex tape twice (and seen it get deleted both times), because it's discussed in the article and is significant enough that I've twice seen it referred to in other material on Severina. Unless there is a policy against linking to porn (and no such policy exists, of course), why isn't this link important to the article? The following is a direct link to the sex video, NSFW: http://www.spankwire.com/articles/29118/Full_Sex_Tape.html
Using any other copy of the whole video would be fine. It's not about this specific source but about linking to the relevant material. -- Nick Douglas 08:25, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
That link is in no way appropriate for the general population that uses Wikipedia. Remember, she's a singer, not a pron star, so children might be looking at that link. Furthermore, most people can access that video on fileshare, so the link is not needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.189.97.117 ( talk) 02:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Any clinical description of the contents of the sex tape, which was presumably never intended for public release, appears to be a violation of the Wikipedia policy on biographies of living persons, which states (under Presumption in favor of privacy):
"An important rule of thumb when writing biographical material about living persons is "do no harm". Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid, and as such it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives. BLPs must be written conservatively, with regard for the subject's privacy." 128.218.20.69 ( talk) 07:08, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Severina is a Croatian singer, but due to similarity in languages and cultural ties, her fame exceeds Croatian borders as she is one of major pop stars in all neighboring ex-Yugoslavian countries: Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia. I consider it relevant, since she is not just a local celebrity (like many), but a regional one (and wider). 109.93.245.201 ( talk) 12:11, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
The song "Prevara" is a plagiarism of the song "Na sen" by Polish singer Urszula.
89.167.107.212 ( talk) 14:39, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved to appropriate title. Obsuser ( talk) 05:07, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Severina Vučković → Severina – She is not Vučković any more and is best known simply by the name. Severina was moved to Severina (disambiguation). Obsuser ( talk) 15:55, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Severina (singer) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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OK, so the controversy around Severina's entry in the ESC has completely waned so I brought it down to deserved levels of explanation. I hope that there are fans out there who can expand Severina's page with actual information about her career, rather than absolutely disgraceful and unnecessary descriptions of her sex tape. We all have sex, hopefully, and we all know what it looks like, hopefully!!!
I don't know enough about Severina, but she's had a career span of about 18 years, and she deserves a bit more than just two paragraphs about her song sounding like Serbian music (which is just pathetic -- so what if it does sound like Serbian music -- dear God, if it sounded like Cuban music no one would say a thing, and Serbs make a decent minority in Croatia whilst there's very little Cubans!). So please, people, keep in mind that this is an encyclopedia, not a place for us to express our frustrations and intolerance. The only intolerance should exist toward bad English and biased information!!!
Thanks! -- Ogidog 03:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- - Ogidog, How much is Severina paying you ???? Your BLATANT CENSORSHIP of information on this page is the REAL DISGRACE !!! Who are YOU to decide what information is suitable and what is not ??? Who are YOU to decide what is unnecessary or what can or can't be put on this page. How Dare You act as if you own this page. What you are doing is nothing short of abusing the system to fulfill your personal agenda, which seems to be "damage control" on behalf of severina. Wikipedia is about free, limitless, truthful information, by the people - for the people ! Your contemptible actions of censoring and deleting truthful, accurate information to serve your own agenda goes against everything wikipedia stands for and is absolutely despicable !! The Sex scandal information you delete is not only accurate, its is also highly relevant. The Sex scandal itself is the only reason why 90% of people outside croatia know severina at all, as it was a world wide reported scandal, increasing her fame significantly in a matter of days ! But also, it is very important to get across the exact graphic nature of what the tape containes as it is only then can we get a REAL grasp of WHY this tape was such a BIG DEAL, and also on WHY it impacted her image SO MUCH ! The relevancy of this information cannot be denied by any fair person who knows anything about this story. Even the press had more details than this ! Relevant truthful information cannot be denied, and WILL NOT BE DENIED, especially by some self serving, information suppressing, disgrace of a user like YOU !
Your addition lacks neutrality, as it portrays only the negative part of the acceptance of the song. One would get the impression that beyond this last week, and the porn tape (as well as the use of the word infamous!!!), there is no career to Severina. I don't like Severina that much at all personally, and I may be annoyed by her existence, however, it's only fair to respect that she is a star, and if she doesn't have a full-blown entry, the people who are annoyed by her, yet do not think that her career deserves the space, should list the problem in one bullet -- something like "the win casued controversy in the purist part of the Croatian public".
Your addition is inappropriate in length due to the length of the entire entry. Write the whole article appropriate to her career, and then point out the two dark spots that overshadow the whole decade-worth of someone's career.
Where is the expert knowledge: Sanja Dolezal? Vecernji list? Please...
Ggidog 24.2.242.93 21:35, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't particularly care for Severina, but I endeavored to edit this article because I don't think that it presents an encyclopedic view of the entry. Severina is far more popular than the what the article implies, and far less scandal-ridden. It's important to note that she's a pop singer, and as such subject to ongoing critique (similar to Britney Spears, Madonna, etc.) so it is redundant to list all of the scandals or all of the criticisms.
Sorry, you cannot just pick random people to prove your point. Also, there is no such thing as "ekavian" or "jekavian" etc. EurowikiJ 17:17, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Then the entire section ought to be removed (which I'd also be happy with). The comments about the song being a 'provocation' weren't made by 'a number of' politicians: they were made by these two named individuals at the instigation of a populist tabloid in Croatia ( http://www.24sata.hr/articles/view/17549/).
This in turn was based on an erroneous claim that the song was in the ekavica dialect associated with Serbia (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Serbo-Croatian_language) rather than the ikavica dialect spoken in the Croatian regions from which the 'folklore' used in the song was supposedly drawn. 194.66.92.113 17:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a small edit war going on between EurowikiJ and 24.2.242.93. Any chance we can stop the edits and discuss the matter more fully here? Also, don't forget about WP:3RR. -- Yamla 22:37, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Oh and BTW, It is a shame that this discussion page has been turned into the 24.2.242.xxx's private sandbox. EurowikiJ 12:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I have marked the page as protected. I think the reasons are obvious. This is certainly not a permanent measure, I or any other admin can unprotect the page once the dispute is resolved. -- Yamla 04:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Sysops! please, add cs:severina into article, interwiki is important. THX -- Aktron 15:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
explicit language, undocumented article-- Greece666 22:54, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
It is very obvious that english is not your first language, and it's not your name that gives people that impression, it's your use of english in this article. I will now post every single change you made and show you why they are ALL subjective OR bad uses of english :
1. You changed reported world wide - to - reported worldwidely . If you knew english, you would know that "Worldwidely" IS NOT A WORD !!!! Stop changing it !
2. You changed she was doing all of this - to - she had a sexual intercourse . Several things wrong here; first, "sexual intercourse" is very specificly only 1 kind of sexual act, however severina did MANY kinds of sexual actsin the video, so it would be wrong to only single out the "intercourse" as the only thing she did or the only reason why it was "shocking", because i'm sure even if there was no "intercourse" on the video, as it still had all of the other sexual acts such a oral sex, handjob, etc, it would STILL be "shocking" to the public, so it's not about the "intercourse". Also even if it was, the english again in not correct, you cannot say had "a" sexual intercourse, so again its wrong, so stop changing it !
3. You changed the video was already widely available on the internet. However, while perhaps ruining her religious image.. - to - the video was already widely available on the internet. However, while the video-tape probably ruined her religious image.. There is NO NEED to say again "video-tape" when it is CLEAR that is what the subject is ! Its just POINTLESS REPETITION and is NOT NEEDED SO STOP CHANGING IT !!
4 You changed ..it actually boosted her career, especially internationally as the story was reported around the world and millions who had never heard of Severina now knew of her. - to - ..the negative publicity actually boosted her career, as the story was reported on an international level. Changing "it" (meaning the video) to "negative publicity" is not correct as "it" didn't mean publicity, "it" purely meant the video. and also calling news about the tape "negative publicity" is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE and has no place on a neutral article such as this. News is (meant to be) neutral, opinion articles can be subjective (negative or positive).
5. You Removed The new image has so far been successful for her. When people go through "scandals" and their whole images are DESTROYED, it can mean the end their career. In this case however, Severina has been able to adapt to a different image after the scandal, and this sentence is there to indicate that her career was not distroyed and that she has been able to be successful with a changed image ! Something completely true as she was even representing her country at Eurovision ! So stop changing it !!!
- I-jex 21 may 2006
i wont rv any more. anyone interested look here-- Greece666 22:56, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
i would also like to add, that the changes i tried to make to the article have little to do with language (except from some obvious mistakes, as the repetition of the word "the"). what i essentially tried to fix is POV and comments such as "the nation" referring to the croatian ppl, as if they were the only nation of the world. -- Greece666 22:49, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, I-jex, I'm sorry that for you sexual intercourse is "very specificly only 1 kind of sexual act", but check entry on sexual_intercourse and it may take your sex life to the new peaks!
I've added an external link to Severina's sex tape twice (and seen it get deleted both times), because it's discussed in the article and is significant enough that I've twice seen it referred to in other material on Severina. Unless there is a policy against linking to porn (and no such policy exists, of course), why isn't this link important to the article? The following is a direct link to the sex video, NSFW: http://www.spankwire.com/articles/29118/Full_Sex_Tape.html
Using any other copy of the whole video would be fine. It's not about this specific source but about linking to the relevant material. -- Nick Douglas 08:25, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
That link is in no way appropriate for the general population that uses Wikipedia. Remember, she's a singer, not a pron star, so children might be looking at that link. Furthermore, most people can access that video on fileshare, so the link is not needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.189.97.117 ( talk) 02:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Any clinical description of the contents of the sex tape, which was presumably never intended for public release, appears to be a violation of the Wikipedia policy on biographies of living persons, which states (under Presumption in favor of privacy):
"An important rule of thumb when writing biographical material about living persons is "do no harm". Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid, and as such it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives. BLPs must be written conservatively, with regard for the subject's privacy." 128.218.20.69 ( talk) 07:08, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Severina is a Croatian singer, but due to similarity in languages and cultural ties, her fame exceeds Croatian borders as she is one of major pop stars in all neighboring ex-Yugoslavian countries: Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia. I consider it relevant, since she is not just a local celebrity (like many), but a regional one (and wider). 109.93.245.201 ( talk) 12:11, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
The song "Prevara" is a plagiarism of the song "Na sen" by Polish singer Urszula.
89.167.107.212 ( talk) 14:39, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved to appropriate title. Obsuser ( talk) 05:07, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Severina Vučković → Severina – She is not Vučković any more and is best known simply by the name. Severina was moved to Severina (disambiguation). Obsuser ( talk) 15:55, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
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