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The article, prior to my edit, claimed that the offering ceased during the siege of Jerusalem due to the unavailability of sacrificial animals. While this is logical, no source was given.
Rashi (to Taanit 26b) explains that the tamid offering was outlawed by imperial decree.
-- Hanina 16:53, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Im a hasidic Jew and i read a page that said that we worship a g-d named Yawea well It is not trou And on the ninth of av only people that are 12 and over fas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.234.44.94 ( talk) 22:44, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Was there a pressing reason to change the numbered list into a long, prosaic sentence? It is now less easy to read; and it is less apparent to a casual reader that there are indeed five calamaties listed. חנינא ( talk) 17:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
It wasn't a bulleted list, it was an enumerated list, and in this instance number is significant. The context is already given in the body of the article: The source is no less than the Mishna, which itself explicitly introduces the list with the number "five." As an article about what is today a Rabbinic observance (and was never more than midivre sofrim), even nondescript midrashim should be fair game, but certainly a text as authoritative as a mishna should given Due Weight. חנינא ( talk) 22:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I made a couple of minor changes to the article: somebody referred to the passage in Jeremiah 52 as indicating the breaching of the walls as being on the 9th of Tammuz. Jeremiah makes the same claim in 39:2, and I added that. It's important because, as I also made clear, it's the verse in 39:2 that the Yerushalmi is quoting. The only other change I made was to the Yerushalmi reference. Somebody wrote IV,4, but it's actually IV,5 -- 58.173.105.252 ( talk) 07:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
See subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.198.109.25 ( talk) 13:30, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Seventeenth of Tammuz/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs references and reference citations. Badbilltucker 17:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 17:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 05:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
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I just checked a perpetual calendar program and July 4, 1776, fell on the 17th of Tammuz. This raises two points:
1. Is that a coincidence or did the Second Continental Congress intentionally pick this day? If it was intentional, someone should update the relevant U.S. history articles that discuss the timing of the Declaration of Independence to reflect the reason the date was chosen.
2. While is it definitely not one of the calamities mentioned in the Mishna, do we have a reliable source to say that American independence was NOT a calamity befalling the Jewish people? I tend to think it was actually beneficial to the Jews, but I'm not sure that everyone would agree. If there is no objective standard to decide what is a calamity and what is a good event, then we should just list all the important events that fell on this day without commenting on which were calamities. (Unless the list is suppose to be a list of only the calamities that led to the fast, which would necessarily exclude any that occurred later.)
47.139.41.191 ( talk) 18:49, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on 15 dates. show |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The article, prior to my edit, claimed that the offering ceased during the siege of Jerusalem due to the unavailability of sacrificial animals. While this is logical, no source was given.
Rashi (to Taanit 26b) explains that the tamid offering was outlawed by imperial decree.
-- Hanina 16:53, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Im a hasidic Jew and i read a page that said that we worship a g-d named Yawea well It is not trou And on the ninth of av only people that are 12 and over fas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.234.44.94 ( talk) 22:44, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Was there a pressing reason to change the numbered list into a long, prosaic sentence? It is now less easy to read; and it is less apparent to a casual reader that there are indeed five calamaties listed. חנינא ( talk) 17:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
It wasn't a bulleted list, it was an enumerated list, and in this instance number is significant. The context is already given in the body of the article: The source is no less than the Mishna, which itself explicitly introduces the list with the number "five." As an article about what is today a Rabbinic observance (and was never more than midivre sofrim), even nondescript midrashim should be fair game, but certainly a text as authoritative as a mishna should given Due Weight. חנינא ( talk) 22:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I made a couple of minor changes to the article: somebody referred to the passage in Jeremiah 52 as indicating the breaching of the walls as being on the 9th of Tammuz. Jeremiah makes the same claim in 39:2, and I added that. It's important because, as I also made clear, it's the verse in 39:2 that the Yerushalmi is quoting. The only other change I made was to the Yerushalmi reference. Somebody wrote IV,4, but it's actually IV,5 -- 58.173.105.252 ( talk) 07:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
See subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.198.109.25 ( talk) 13:30, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Seventeenth of Tammuz/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs references and reference citations. Badbilltucker 17:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 17:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 05:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Seventeenth of Tammuz. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:21, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
I just checked a perpetual calendar program and July 4, 1776, fell on the 17th of Tammuz. This raises two points:
1. Is that a coincidence or did the Second Continental Congress intentionally pick this day? If it was intentional, someone should update the relevant U.S. history articles that discuss the timing of the Declaration of Independence to reflect the reason the date was chosen.
2. While is it definitely not one of the calamities mentioned in the Mishna, do we have a reliable source to say that American independence was NOT a calamity befalling the Jewish people? I tend to think it was actually beneficial to the Jews, but I'm not sure that everyone would agree. If there is no objective standard to decide what is a calamity and what is a good event, then we should just list all the important events that fell on this day without commenting on which were calamities. (Unless the list is suppose to be a list of only the calamities that led to the fast, which would necessarily exclude any that occurred later.)
47.139.41.191 ( talk) 18:49, 21 July 2019 (UTC)