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Well... what do think will be the major elements at the end of the war?
Lets also not forget that the US will probably topple the "Mexican Emperor" and set up a republic, like the one in Quebec. (If Turtledove goes so far as to mention what happens to the Empire of Mexico.)
I think, however, that the author is wrong about the atom bomb, like Germany in our timeline, I think the Confederates will capitulate before the bomb is ready. I believe that if Turtledove continues this atomic plotline, it will be dropped on a much stronger Japan, which will free up Pacific resources.
The REAL interesting question is what about imperial Germany? Turtledove has hinted that Germany is a much more tolerant place in his time-line then it was in ours. I believe one character even mentioned how "all the jewish scientists work for the Germans." If this is true, that means Einstein never immigrates and could be working on a German bomb. If Turtledove is going to be consistant with his analogies, then I predict that the Germans will drop the atomic bomb on London towards the end of this book, setting up a German-US cold war.
what will happen to frace and the uk when they loose? france and uk will loose more land or will germany be more lesant.
As for myself: details are sketchy, but the impression I got was that the Tsarist Russian empire is basically a bunch of pushovers that never really recovered from their civil war. The Germans are holding their own in Europe, and were never under serious threat of actual defeat; the big point of the European front is that neither the Confederates or the USA have allies in Europe who can send help to them as in the Second Mexican War, and they're on their own. The Germans *do* have most of their nuclear physicists. Japan meanwhile...no one is seriously trying to stop. The USA is fighting for its survival and Japan realized it would be difficult to beat, so for the moment set out to take Malaysia and the British possessions; the entire reason the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor was because they wanted the USA to stop protesting their invasion of Southeast Asia with sanctions. In TL-191, the US is basically already saying "we're so busy with the Confederacy, you can keep Asia for all we care, just leave our Sandwich Islands alone". Although he doesn't focus on it, they're really setting up Japan as a future superpower. Will the more militarized USA of TL-191 do better against them? Dunno; the Mormon problem might never go away, and occupying/forcibly Reconstructing the Confederacy might eat up a lot of manpower. The good news is that beating up on the Confederacy means taking Mexico and Cuba as well, plus they've already got Quebec, and Canada has some rebel problems but that shouldn't turn out to be too serious. Basically, the war is going to end with the entire North American continent plus the Caribbean as the USA's personal playground...but it will take decades to properly secure it. Meanwhile, will Japan take Australia? That's not certain. I seriously doubt France or Britain will long survive the war and Russia is already more than half dead. And what of India? If Britian loses they'll side with Germany and the USA. Long story short: the Confederates WILL NOT get the bomb. They were already blatantly far behind even the USA, and with the strike on their nuclear physicists, its a lost cause. The question is if the USA will get the bomb quick enough to do any serious damage. Richmond is already shot to pieces. Bombing New Orleans would rob them of a major port. They might want to drop the big on on Atlanta instead of marching the troops in, but at the rate things are going I think Morell will outpace them. Frankly, I think it's down to the psychological blows of Columbia or Charleston, South Carolina to hit where the Confederacy started (Charleston for Sumter, Columbia the first statehouse to secede). As for the Germans...again, you don't bomb the enemy's capital with a nuke; 1-you need someone left to surrender 2-by that point in the war you've already heavily bombed your enemies capital. You use a nuke on a relatively undamaged city for maximum damage. Japan was playing the Entente and Central Power off against each other. Well, I'm not sure; but I seriously doubt "In at the Death" will be the very last TL-191 novel. - Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 19:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
What happened to Britain in the end ?
Gashmak 13:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
i not to sure what happens to britian get nucked and then i think churchil get overthrowen birtian surrenders but does england continue to its ocupation of ireland? you don't realy get much info —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.246.25 ( talk) 19:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Jon 19:30, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
If there is a cold war, it will likely be between the US and the CS. The CSA has considered itself a separate country for 60 years now and so won't be easily folded into the USA. What could happen is that a lot of die-hards escape into Mexico and keep the Confederacy alive that way. This way, the CSA will be split into two, much like Germany was split between East and West. One thing that it's important to point out is that, in the real world, the world was divided between capitalism and communism. In the 191 timeline, democracy and socialism has only flourished in the United States. Because of this, if there were a cold war between the U.S. and Germany, it might be because of socialist democracy vs. imperial monarchy. If this were to happen, North America and Europe would be fighting a cold war with each other with Asia and Africa caught between them, much like Europe was caught between the US and the USSR in the real world. - 05 August 2006
Speculation shouldn't be here at all. -- Stlemur 13:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
One thing is very clearly hinted at: though the German-Austrian alliance is headed to winning the war in Europe, Austro-Hungaria would still fall apart in the aftermath, and probably do so more in a far more messy and bloody way than in our liftime, more like the collapse of OTL Yugolsavia. Adam Keller 11:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the article on Timeline's 191 World War II would be a much better place for this section than this article. Jon 21:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Is there information on sequels? At the end of the book, it seems to set up a multipolar cold war type world, with Japan, UK+France+Russia, US+Germay (or separately)... 132.205.44.5 22:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
( Bobbo9000 06:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC)Bobbo9000)
"is made one nation."
I think "lives under one government" is more accurate. 'Nation' in typical American vernacular means country, but more etymologically 'nation' refers to groups of people defined as having some sort of genealogical or historical connection to each other irrespective of statehood. As the CSA and USA surely consider each other separate peoples moreso in 1945 than in 1865, surely some recognition of their difference would be appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.6.192 ( talk) 07:52, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Please avoid sections about possible sequels or events that would happen in the future unless you have a credible source from the author or another party backing up such a claim. Zombie Hunter Smurf ( talk) 19:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Well... what do think will be the major elements at the end of the war?
Lets also not forget that the US will probably topple the "Mexican Emperor" and set up a republic, like the one in Quebec. (If Turtledove goes so far as to mention what happens to the Empire of Mexico.)
I think, however, that the author is wrong about the atom bomb, like Germany in our timeline, I think the Confederates will capitulate before the bomb is ready. I believe that if Turtledove continues this atomic plotline, it will be dropped on a much stronger Japan, which will free up Pacific resources.
The REAL interesting question is what about imperial Germany? Turtledove has hinted that Germany is a much more tolerant place in his time-line then it was in ours. I believe one character even mentioned how "all the jewish scientists work for the Germans." If this is true, that means Einstein never immigrates and could be working on a German bomb. If Turtledove is going to be consistant with his analogies, then I predict that the Germans will drop the atomic bomb on London towards the end of this book, setting up a German-US cold war.
what will happen to frace and the uk when they loose? france and uk will loose more land or will germany be more lesant.
As for myself: details are sketchy, but the impression I got was that the Tsarist Russian empire is basically a bunch of pushovers that never really recovered from their civil war. The Germans are holding their own in Europe, and were never under serious threat of actual defeat; the big point of the European front is that neither the Confederates or the USA have allies in Europe who can send help to them as in the Second Mexican War, and they're on their own. The Germans *do* have most of their nuclear physicists. Japan meanwhile...no one is seriously trying to stop. The USA is fighting for its survival and Japan realized it would be difficult to beat, so for the moment set out to take Malaysia and the British possessions; the entire reason the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor was because they wanted the USA to stop protesting their invasion of Southeast Asia with sanctions. In TL-191, the US is basically already saying "we're so busy with the Confederacy, you can keep Asia for all we care, just leave our Sandwich Islands alone". Although he doesn't focus on it, they're really setting up Japan as a future superpower. Will the more militarized USA of TL-191 do better against them? Dunno; the Mormon problem might never go away, and occupying/forcibly Reconstructing the Confederacy might eat up a lot of manpower. The good news is that beating up on the Confederacy means taking Mexico and Cuba as well, plus they've already got Quebec, and Canada has some rebel problems but that shouldn't turn out to be too serious. Basically, the war is going to end with the entire North American continent plus the Caribbean as the USA's personal playground...but it will take decades to properly secure it. Meanwhile, will Japan take Australia? That's not certain. I seriously doubt France or Britain will long survive the war and Russia is already more than half dead. And what of India? If Britian loses they'll side with Germany and the USA. Long story short: the Confederates WILL NOT get the bomb. They were already blatantly far behind even the USA, and with the strike on their nuclear physicists, its a lost cause. The question is if the USA will get the bomb quick enough to do any serious damage. Richmond is already shot to pieces. Bombing New Orleans would rob them of a major port. They might want to drop the big on on Atlanta instead of marching the troops in, but at the rate things are going I think Morell will outpace them. Frankly, I think it's down to the psychological blows of Columbia or Charleston, South Carolina to hit where the Confederacy started (Charleston for Sumter, Columbia the first statehouse to secede). As for the Germans...again, you don't bomb the enemy's capital with a nuke; 1-you need someone left to surrender 2-by that point in the war you've already heavily bombed your enemies capital. You use a nuke on a relatively undamaged city for maximum damage. Japan was playing the Entente and Central Power off against each other. Well, I'm not sure; but I seriously doubt "In at the Death" will be the very last TL-191 novel. - Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici 19:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
What happened to Britain in the end ?
Gashmak 13:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
i not to sure what happens to britian get nucked and then i think churchil get overthrowen birtian surrenders but does england continue to its ocupation of ireland? you don't realy get much info —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.246.25 ( talk) 19:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Jon 19:30, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
If there is a cold war, it will likely be between the US and the CS. The CSA has considered itself a separate country for 60 years now and so won't be easily folded into the USA. What could happen is that a lot of die-hards escape into Mexico and keep the Confederacy alive that way. This way, the CSA will be split into two, much like Germany was split between East and West. One thing that it's important to point out is that, in the real world, the world was divided between capitalism and communism. In the 191 timeline, democracy and socialism has only flourished in the United States. Because of this, if there were a cold war between the U.S. and Germany, it might be because of socialist democracy vs. imperial monarchy. If this were to happen, North America and Europe would be fighting a cold war with each other with Asia and Africa caught between them, much like Europe was caught between the US and the USSR in the real world. - 05 August 2006
Speculation shouldn't be here at all. -- Stlemur 13:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
One thing is very clearly hinted at: though the German-Austrian alliance is headed to winning the war in Europe, Austro-Hungaria would still fall apart in the aftermath, and probably do so more in a far more messy and bloody way than in our liftime, more like the collapse of OTL Yugolsavia. Adam Keller 11:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the article on Timeline's 191 World War II would be a much better place for this section than this article. Jon 21:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Is there information on sequels? At the end of the book, it seems to set up a multipolar cold war type world, with Japan, UK+France+Russia, US+Germay (or separately)... 132.205.44.5 22:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
( Bobbo9000 06:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC)Bobbo9000)
"is made one nation."
I think "lives under one government" is more accurate. 'Nation' in typical American vernacular means country, but more etymologically 'nation' refers to groups of people defined as having some sort of genealogical or historical connection to each other irrespective of statehood. As the CSA and USA surely consider each other separate peoples moreso in 1945 than in 1865, surely some recognition of their difference would be appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.6.192 ( talk) 07:52, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Please avoid sections about possible sequels or events that would happen in the future unless you have a credible source from the author or another party backing up such a claim. Zombie Hunter Smurf ( talk) 19:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)