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"In 1948, Prokofiev was attacked for producing 'anti-democratic formalism'."
You don't say. By whom? Or do we want to avoid saying?
LewisChessman ( talk) 03:17, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
Considering the Russian invasion of Ukraine, is it accurate to describe Prokofiev as a "Russian" composer? Honest question, not trying to revise things if that is true.
He was born in Ukraine, but was he ethnically Russian or Ukrainian? I think it's important to be accurate here for the sake of not inadvertently supporting cultural erasure.
Even if he was ethnically Russian, he was born in Ukraine, so it seems fair to list him in the "Ukrainian Composers" category. Modern Ukraine is not an ethnostate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boringalias ( talk • contribs) 19:29, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
He was born in Ukraini. How come that in the text say that he was Russian? 89.152.100.251 ( talk) 22:20, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Projofiev is NOT a russian composerget your facts straight Projofiev was born as ukrainian i know very well you will ignore this fact and continue w russian — but the truth is Prokofiev was ukrainian/ american composer having studied in russia Now who is right you are me? The history books got it wrong which is no big surprise to me paul kenner louisiana 2600:8807:4801:C900:7900:674:B1B6:16AC ( talk) 00:35, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Hello, why is there no Infobox about this great composer? What are the issues? Er nesto ( talk) 20:18, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Regardless of Curry's insistence, it's only reasonable to say Russian composer born in present-day Ukraine 76.11.2.233 ( talk) 21:28, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
It's clear that a single 'editor' has decided to monopolise the subject of Prokofiev's nationality and won't tolerate the slightest compromise on his insistence that the composer was ONLY Russian and not also Ukrainian. By that measure, the early Americans of the late 18th century would be British and not American (admittedly some of them did think that, though most didn't). Ukraine means lower border lands and the Rus started in Kiev, not Moscow. If anything, Ukraine has precedence in the nationality parade. 86.140.171.159 ( talk) 01:59, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Prokofiev’s status as a Russian patriot—the manner in which he considered himself distinctly Russian—is confirmed and clarified by [his] diaries. […] At the same time, Prokofiev possessed his own enormous nostalgia for pre-1917 St. Petersburg and a concomitant sense of Russia's imperial destiny and grandeur. In his trips to Russia in 1927 and 1929, Prokofiev responded more to the continuities than to the changes. He felt overwhelmingly attached to the Russian urban landscape and the mores of his contemporaries in the intelligentsia.
Nationality needs to be discussed as consensus hasn't been reached and no one editor is entitled to railroad that consensus. The following link is useful in determining the redefinition now being discussed.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/listening-to-russian-music-in-putins-shadow Historicallibrarian ( talk) 23:19, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:37, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
The Reddit thread linked (when read in full) illustrates a good argument for changing which of Prokofiev's two birthdays (or pairs of birthdays with OS) this article should consider the principal one (see note 2 below the article). We are currently in disagreement with the Encyclopædia Britannica, because of citation 6, an entry in a "concise" 1990s dictionary - potentially overestimating the trustworthiness of birth certificates and underestimating the importance of Prokofiev's own view of his birthday. PurpleQuaver ( talk) 01:20, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Prokofiev was born on 23th of april, not 27th. Fix it please. Glebushko0703 ( talk) 14:39, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Prokofieff (i.e. Prokofiev) LCCN2014708419 Crop 2.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July 25, 2023. A preview of the POTD can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-07-25. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Aviafanboi ( talk) 02:34, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
Does Golan v. Holder still apply to Prokofiev's works? As he died 70 years ago last year are his works now public domain? 2A02:A46A:2C29:1:95E3:C2DB:2C39:2D60 ( talk) 01:40, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
@ CurryTime7-24: I think that the Ukrainian name of Sergei could be added. For example, in the article Leonid Brezhnev, even he self-described himself as a Russian, there's also a Ukrainian name added which probably is because he was born in Ukraine. PoisonHK ✉ Sapiens dominabitur astris 16:01, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
According to the sources in the article, SSP's parents were ethnic Russians. At the time of his birth, the region he was born was a legally recognized part of Russia and often referred to as such. Moreover, although SSP referred to himself at times as a "guy from the Steppes", he neither ever proclaimed himself to be of Ukrainian ethnicity nor did he ever claim to speak the language. To the best of my knowledge, there is no testimony from friends, colleagues, etc. that confirm he spoke Ukrainian. Because of that, the transcription of SSP's name in Ukrainian Cyrillic that @ PoisonHK: added a short while ago may be anachronistic. For what it's worth, their user page may suggest that this might be a WP:NOTADVOCACY matter. — CurryTime7-24 ( talk) 16:06, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
I believe that what appears as superscripts [n 2] and [n 3] should appear in the article body, [n 2] for consistency with multiple other articles that show pronunciation info in-line, and [n 3] because it can interest people to know about his birthday.
I'm not experienced enough to do the editing myself.
[n 2] /prəˈkɒfiɛf, proʊ-, -ˈkɔː-, -ˈkoʊ-, -jɛf, -jɛv, -iəf/; Russian: Сергей Сергеевич Прокофьев, tr. Sergey Sergeyevich Prokofiev, IPA: [sʲɪˈrɡʲej sʲɪˈrɡʲe(j)ɪvʲɪtɕ prɐˈkofʲjɪf] ⓘ; alternative transliterations of his name include Sergey or Serge, and Prokofief, Prokofieff, or Prokofyev. In this name that follows Eastern Slavic naming customs, the patronymic is Sergeyevich and the family name is Prokofiev
[n 3] While Sergei Prokofiev himself believed 11/23 April to be his birth date, the posthumous discovery of his birth certificate showed that he was actually born four days later, on 15/27 April. AK2022 ( talk) 12:21, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Please place new discussions at the bottom of the talk page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sergei Prokofiev article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Sergei Prokofiev has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on April 27, 2017. |
This
level-4 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"In 1948, Prokofiev was attacked for producing 'anti-democratic formalism'."
You don't say. By whom? Or do we want to avoid saying?
LewisChessman ( talk) 03:17, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
Considering the Russian invasion of Ukraine, is it accurate to describe Prokofiev as a "Russian" composer? Honest question, not trying to revise things if that is true.
He was born in Ukraine, but was he ethnically Russian or Ukrainian? I think it's important to be accurate here for the sake of not inadvertently supporting cultural erasure.
Even if he was ethnically Russian, he was born in Ukraine, so it seems fair to list him in the "Ukrainian Composers" category. Modern Ukraine is not an ethnostate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boringalias ( talk • contribs) 19:29, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
He was born in Ukraini. How come that in the text say that he was Russian? 89.152.100.251 ( talk) 22:20, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Projofiev is NOT a russian composerget your facts straight Projofiev was born as ukrainian i know very well you will ignore this fact and continue w russian — but the truth is Prokofiev was ukrainian/ american composer having studied in russia Now who is right you are me? The history books got it wrong which is no big surprise to me paul kenner louisiana 2600:8807:4801:C900:7900:674:B1B6:16AC ( talk) 00:35, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Hello, why is there no Infobox about this great composer? What are the issues? Er nesto ( talk) 20:18, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Regardless of Curry's insistence, it's only reasonable to say Russian composer born in present-day Ukraine 76.11.2.233 ( talk) 21:28, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
It's clear that a single 'editor' has decided to monopolise the subject of Prokofiev's nationality and won't tolerate the slightest compromise on his insistence that the composer was ONLY Russian and not also Ukrainian. By that measure, the early Americans of the late 18th century would be British and not American (admittedly some of them did think that, though most didn't). Ukraine means lower border lands and the Rus started in Kiev, not Moscow. If anything, Ukraine has precedence in the nationality parade. 86.140.171.159 ( talk) 01:59, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Prokofiev’s status as a Russian patriot—the manner in which he considered himself distinctly Russian—is confirmed and clarified by [his] diaries. […] At the same time, Prokofiev possessed his own enormous nostalgia for pre-1917 St. Petersburg and a concomitant sense of Russia's imperial destiny and grandeur. In his trips to Russia in 1927 and 1929, Prokofiev responded more to the continuities than to the changes. He felt overwhelmingly attached to the Russian urban landscape and the mores of his contemporaries in the intelligentsia.
Nationality needs to be discussed as consensus hasn't been reached and no one editor is entitled to railroad that consensus. The following link is useful in determining the redefinition now being discussed.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/listening-to-russian-music-in-putins-shadow Historicallibrarian ( talk) 23:19, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:37, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
The Reddit thread linked (when read in full) illustrates a good argument for changing which of Prokofiev's two birthdays (or pairs of birthdays with OS) this article should consider the principal one (see note 2 below the article). We are currently in disagreement with the Encyclopædia Britannica, because of citation 6, an entry in a "concise" 1990s dictionary - potentially overestimating the trustworthiness of birth certificates and underestimating the importance of Prokofiev's own view of his birthday. PurpleQuaver ( talk) 01:20, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Prokofiev was born on 23th of april, not 27th. Fix it please. Glebushko0703 ( talk) 14:39, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Prokofieff (i.e. Prokofiev) LCCN2014708419 Crop 2.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July 25, 2023. A preview of the POTD can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-07-25. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Aviafanboi ( talk) 02:34, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
Does Golan v. Holder still apply to Prokofiev's works? As he died 70 years ago last year are his works now public domain? 2A02:A46A:2C29:1:95E3:C2DB:2C39:2D60 ( talk) 01:40, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
@ CurryTime7-24: I think that the Ukrainian name of Sergei could be added. For example, in the article Leonid Brezhnev, even he self-described himself as a Russian, there's also a Ukrainian name added which probably is because he was born in Ukraine. PoisonHK ✉ Sapiens dominabitur astris 16:01, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
According to the sources in the article, SSP's parents were ethnic Russians. At the time of his birth, the region he was born was a legally recognized part of Russia and often referred to as such. Moreover, although SSP referred to himself at times as a "guy from the Steppes", he neither ever proclaimed himself to be of Ukrainian ethnicity nor did he ever claim to speak the language. To the best of my knowledge, there is no testimony from friends, colleagues, etc. that confirm he spoke Ukrainian. Because of that, the transcription of SSP's name in Ukrainian Cyrillic that @ PoisonHK: added a short while ago may be anachronistic. For what it's worth, their user page may suggest that this might be a WP:NOTADVOCACY matter. — CurryTime7-24 ( talk) 16:06, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
I believe that what appears as superscripts [n 2] and [n 3] should appear in the article body, [n 2] for consistency with multiple other articles that show pronunciation info in-line, and [n 3] because it can interest people to know about his birthday.
I'm not experienced enough to do the editing myself.
[n 2] /prəˈkɒfiɛf, proʊ-, -ˈkɔː-, -ˈkoʊ-, -jɛf, -jɛv, -iəf/; Russian: Сергей Сергеевич Прокофьев, tr. Sergey Sergeyevich Prokofiev, IPA: [sʲɪˈrɡʲej sʲɪˈrɡʲe(j)ɪvʲɪtɕ prɐˈkofʲjɪf] ⓘ; alternative transliterations of his name include Sergey or Serge, and Prokofief, Prokofieff, or Prokofyev. In this name that follows Eastern Slavic naming customs, the patronymic is Sergeyevich and the family name is Prokofiev
[n 3] While Sergei Prokofiev himself believed 11/23 April to be his birth date, the posthumous discovery of his birth certificate showed that he was actually born four days later, on 15/27 April. AK2022 ( talk) 12:21, 25 April 2024 (UTC)