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Why on earth this guy is classified as an KGB agent in the English Wikipedia?
He was a civilian sailor. He studied in a merchant marine college. He was not even in the military, much less in the KGB. The whole "anti-chtistian squad" ordeal he (he!) describes is a banal neighborhood watch system ("druzhina") that existed everywhere in the Soviet Union. Citizens were organized in para-police squads that patrolled the streets and indeed picked up drunks and broke fights in the clubs (as he himself and this article mentions multiple times). Yes, druzhinas were vectored at underground church services - when they could find one, - but this has very little to do with the KGB and in any case does not make a druzhina member a KGB agent.
Once again: what makes you classify this person as a KGB agent? It's a merchant sailor, a radioman, nothing more. Not an officer even - too young to get an officer rank, this was just a college that produced rank and file sailors. I don't question his druzhina involvement and the whole underground Christiany stuff, but I assure you that he had zero ties with the KGB (it did not work this way in the Soviet Union).
Fix the link to the Russian article on him: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Курдаков,_Сергей (You did not even get his name right in Russian, both in the link and in the article).
Translate that article using Google Translate and get more reliable info on him from there.
Learn about druzhina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_People's_Druzhina (and compare it to the crap you have here).
You have been had by people with political agenda.
From looking over the previously used source, as well as the one other source I discovered online, I have come to the conclusion that there is absolutely no reliable source for the alleged documentary Forgive Me Sergei. Following the guidelines outlined by WP:RS and other Wikipedia policies, I do not believe the website http://www.forgivemesergei.com/, which is the website of the very obscure documentary about Sergei Kourdakov and the source that was previously used on this article, to be a reliable source for any Wikipedia. To start off, WP:RS states that "self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." As far as I can tell, the website is the main source of information in regard to this film and the first to publish information about it. WP:RS also states that a source can be used only if, among other reasons, "there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity." One large reason that leads me to doubt its authenticity is its apparent identity crisis. The title of the website (what you read on the top of a browser) is "Forgive Me, Sergei", while the banner of the website uses "Forgive Me Sergei", without the comma. And on the bottom of each page, a crucial spelling mistake exists to the title: "Forgive Me Sergi". The fact that this error has existed since the website's creation in 2006 (see 2006 archived edition) and has lasted for more than three years does little to turn this website into a 'reliable source'.
The single other reference that I have found in pertaining to this film is this advertisement found on a shady news source known as The Online News Station. The reliability of this source is thrown into serious doubt when a logical check is performed: The article starts off with two still images from the film, the first of which is claimed to be Irene Dobrovlenskaya (known in Kourdakov's autobiography as Big Irene) with an unknown individual. The caption for the image states that Irene, then 80 years old (assumingly at the time this article was published in 2006), was the founder of the Bareshevo orphanage, which celebrated it's 70th anniversary in 2001. Assuming that is true, Irene would have to be five years old to have founded the orphanage in time. Even if we were to assume that Irene was 80 in 2001 and not in 2006, Irene would have to be ten years old to found the orphanage in time. Therefore, something must be terribly incorrect in the article, and the source cannot be used as a reliable source either. Eugeniu B +1 07:29, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
The documentary is on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkEqC0jHdJ8 . This still opens a lot of questions, though the interview with Underground Evangelism at the end of the book makes them look especially shady. I have a lot of doubts about Koudakov's story after watching it. 87.139.107.213 ( talk) 09:20, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
It's generally a good idea to have at least two reference citations per paragraph, particularly for paragraphs in the body of the text. 165.134.155.135 ( talk) 20:10, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
I wonder why nobody has ever heard about Natasha, especially from Perestroyka on. Allegedly, she went back to the Ukraine; and then? Has she died; did she abominate any media racket, or what? She would be the crown witness for the reliability of the whole story. Hellsepp -- Hellsepp ( talk) 18:16, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
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Resolved This issue has been resolved, and I have therefore removed the tag, if not already done. No further action is necessary.—
cyberbot II
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20:18, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 04:36, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
The article is based mostly on the controversial autobiography, not on independent sources, therefore I added the templates POV and Partisan sources. We should clearly separate the real life of SK and the events from his novel-autobiography, which are not supported by any outside evidence (or are even contrary to the evidence). Ioannes Pragensis ( talk) 08:38, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sergei Kourdakov article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Why on earth this guy is classified as an KGB agent in the English Wikipedia?
He was a civilian sailor. He studied in a merchant marine college. He was not even in the military, much less in the KGB. The whole "anti-chtistian squad" ordeal he (he!) describes is a banal neighborhood watch system ("druzhina") that existed everywhere in the Soviet Union. Citizens were organized in para-police squads that patrolled the streets and indeed picked up drunks and broke fights in the clubs (as he himself and this article mentions multiple times). Yes, druzhinas were vectored at underground church services - when they could find one, - but this has very little to do with the KGB and in any case does not make a druzhina member a KGB agent.
Once again: what makes you classify this person as a KGB agent? It's a merchant sailor, a radioman, nothing more. Not an officer even - too young to get an officer rank, this was just a college that produced rank and file sailors. I don't question his druzhina involvement and the whole underground Christiany stuff, but I assure you that he had zero ties with the KGB (it did not work this way in the Soviet Union).
Fix the link to the Russian article on him: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Курдаков,_Сергей (You did not even get his name right in Russian, both in the link and in the article).
Translate that article using Google Translate and get more reliable info on him from there.
Learn about druzhina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_People's_Druzhina (and compare it to the crap you have here).
You have been had by people with political agenda.
From looking over the previously used source, as well as the one other source I discovered online, I have come to the conclusion that there is absolutely no reliable source for the alleged documentary Forgive Me Sergei. Following the guidelines outlined by WP:RS and other Wikipedia policies, I do not believe the website http://www.forgivemesergei.com/, which is the website of the very obscure documentary about Sergei Kourdakov and the source that was previously used on this article, to be a reliable source for any Wikipedia. To start off, WP:RS states that "self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." As far as I can tell, the website is the main source of information in regard to this film and the first to publish information about it. WP:RS also states that a source can be used only if, among other reasons, "there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity." One large reason that leads me to doubt its authenticity is its apparent identity crisis. The title of the website (what you read on the top of a browser) is "Forgive Me, Sergei", while the banner of the website uses "Forgive Me Sergei", without the comma. And on the bottom of each page, a crucial spelling mistake exists to the title: "Forgive Me Sergi". The fact that this error has existed since the website's creation in 2006 (see 2006 archived edition) and has lasted for more than three years does little to turn this website into a 'reliable source'.
The single other reference that I have found in pertaining to this film is this advertisement found on a shady news source known as The Online News Station. The reliability of this source is thrown into serious doubt when a logical check is performed: The article starts off with two still images from the film, the first of which is claimed to be Irene Dobrovlenskaya (known in Kourdakov's autobiography as Big Irene) with an unknown individual. The caption for the image states that Irene, then 80 years old (assumingly at the time this article was published in 2006), was the founder of the Bareshevo orphanage, which celebrated it's 70th anniversary in 2001. Assuming that is true, Irene would have to be five years old to have founded the orphanage in time. Even if we were to assume that Irene was 80 in 2001 and not in 2006, Irene would have to be ten years old to found the orphanage in time. Therefore, something must be terribly incorrect in the article, and the source cannot be used as a reliable source either. Eugeniu B +1 07:29, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
The documentary is on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkEqC0jHdJ8 . This still opens a lot of questions, though the interview with Underground Evangelism at the end of the book makes them look especially shady. I have a lot of doubts about Koudakov's story after watching it. 87.139.107.213 ( talk) 09:20, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
It's generally a good idea to have at least two reference citations per paragraph, particularly for paragraphs in the body of the text. 165.134.155.135 ( talk) 20:10, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
I wonder why nobody has ever heard about Natasha, especially from Perestroyka on. Allegedly, she went back to the Ukraine; and then? Has she died; did she abominate any media racket, or what? She would be the crown witness for the reliability of the whole story. Hellsepp -- Hellsepp ( talk) 18:16, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
\bccel\.us\b
on the local blacklistIf you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II NotifyOnline 19:51, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Resolved This issue has been resolved, and I have therefore removed the tag, if not already done. No further action is necessary.—
cyberbot II
NotifyOnline
20:18, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Sergei Kourdakov. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 04:36, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
The article is based mostly on the controversial autobiography, not on independent sources, therefore I added the templates POV and Partisan sources. We should clearly separate the real life of SK and the events from his novel-autobiography, which are not supported by any outside evidence (or are even contrary to the evidence). Ioannes Pragensis ( talk) 08:38, 6 December 2020 (UTC)