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The Chinese article on these islands contains the Japanese name Senkaku (尖閣) 22 times, including references in the introduction. The Japanese article on these islands only mentions the name Diaoyu (釣魚) 5 times, with no reference in the introduction. I would suggest that the Chinese part of Wikipedia is more open-minded than the Japanese part. I would also suggest that it is flawed to think of the various language versions of Wikipedia as completely separate from each other. The quixotic "English name" of the islands is an unattainable ideal. The name difference "Senkaku" and "Diaoyu" does not exist solely in English. In Japan/China it is 尖閣 vs 釣魚. All four of these characters are pronounceable in both languages, so the different naming is purely political. It is like Falkands vs Malvinas. History (and Wikipedia) are written by the winners. Bias is unavoidable. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 07:44, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Some pro-Senkaku contributors say that standard English references use Senkaku, and that previous RfC's have shown this. Is there a link to these previous RfC's? I find it difficult to easily get at the documentation that supports the Senkaku-only view. As for encyclopedias, Britannica seems to use both Senkaku and Diaoyu. See http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/158244/Dependent-States-Year-In-Review-1996/91925/Pacific Other encyclopedias simply copy the Columbia Encyclopedia article (with references), which chooses to stick with just Senkaku. Google Maps uses both Senkaku and Diaoyu. This is compared to Google Maps usage of "Liancourt" for the islands between Korea and Japan. University research papers seem to favor the dual use of Senkaku and Diaoyu. See http://international.uiowa.edu/files/international.uiowa.edu/files/file_uploads/drifte_senkaku_article_1.pdf and http://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/bfa92a47-1f5f-4c23-974c-f92e1ed27be4/The-Senkaku-Diaoyu-Island-Controversy--A-Crisis-Po.aspx and http://scar.gmu.edu/book-chapter/daioyusenkaku-dispute-identity-based-conflict-toward-sino-japan-reconciliation I have trouble seeing how the pro-Senkaku people stipulate that English language encyclopedias, maps, news and research papers all overwhelmingly confirm Senkaku. It seems that the majority of evidence now weighs in favor of joint use of Senkaku and Diaoyu. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 22:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
We've got this in the article:
The collective use of the name "Senkaku" to denote the entire group began with the advent of the controversy in the 1970s.
but I can't find this in the given source. Kendall-K1 ( talk) 23:38, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
I think it is wrong to require that sources be non-dispute-related. The fact of the matter is, if there were not a dispute, then there would not be an English-language article about these islands. These islands are uninhabited and only 7 km2 in size. You can find many island groups near both Japan and China of similar size, about which there are no English-language articles. If the dispute is the only reason for the article's existence, then it is ridiculous to stipulate that all naming resources must be non-dispute-related. The dispute itself is the only reason for the article's existence and length in the first place. Furthermore, in terms of common usage, the number of people viewing Senkaku/Diaoyu in dispute-related sources is likely to be millions of times higher than the number of people viewing obscure nautical charts used by ship captains. If we are looking for the most common English name, then we must be realistic about the most common English sources. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 06:17, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
...what would it be? I think that Pinnacle Islands is the worst choice, because the name is totally unused in any of the major works (except as a note like "called Pinnacle in English", and even that's rare). While, yes, a long time ago Wikipedia chose Liancourt Rocks as a compromise name, a lot of that was because they couldn't really find hardly any references in English at all, and thus choosing either the Korean or Japanese name seemed wholly arbitrary. In the case of these islands, however, there's been tons of press; and it seems that there has been a shift (probably, we'll need to RfC later on on the matter) towards both journalists and scholars, and maybe even other tertiary sources, towards using both names.
If that's the case (that most use both), then the "logical" choice would be Senkaku/Diaoyu or Diaoyu/Senkaku (just to clarify, I believe that I used to assert that names with slashes are not allowed, but I've found out that they are, you just have to take care with the talk pages). But how do we choose which one? The argument I'd lay out in favor of S/D is that 1) Japan still maintains de facto control of the islands, including a continuing promise from the US to intervene on Japan's behalf, and 2) Senkaku was for quite a long time the much more dominant term in English. In favor of D/S, I'd argue just alphabetical. But I'm interested in the opinion of others.
Finally, let me be very clear: it is well known that I have long been the strongest "supporter" of the Senkaku Islands name. I'm not stating with complete certainty that I accept that the names have fully shifted, enough that we should change our article (I'll want to do some searches myself). But the newest presented evidence (see the above section) does make me think that there is at least good reason to believe it may have changed, and thus the time is ripe for another community reconideration, and that I myself might even be inclined to support a dual name. But I'm not quite there yet, so please don't quote me as solidly in one "camp" or the other. Qwyrxian ( talk) 13:40, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Alright, maybe this isn't the place to pull the discussion back two centuries, but I still insist on the point that the renaming of this article should 1.follow global events and 2.go further back in time. I just can't agree that "because US government...' or "because Google search...' and then a conclusion. China had, is trying to, and will retake the Diaoyu Islands.And Westwind, if you are a American and having pretty rough times now, tell your government to back off and really stay neutral. Wikireader20000 ( talk) 15:14, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
I think it is becoming increasingly clear that the article name should be changed to either Senkaku/Diaoyu or Diaoyu/Senkaku. Choosing between the two is difficult. In the interest of making slow and conservative changes, I would suggest first changing the article name to Senkaku/Diaoyu, and then continuing the discussion on whether the order should be switched. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 19:42, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Clearly a very small minority with way too much authority is determined to maintain the bias in this article for whatever their own personal reasons are. This is not a forum. It is Wikipedia. Love how you played the RfC card. Very political and the status quo of bias is maintained. The merit and reliability of Wikipedia is damaged but the current status quo is maintained. 98.200.208.230 ( talk) 08:11, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Qwyrxian, if I get you right, Wikipedia's naming regulations are too rigid too adapt to the fact that any naming, any naming, has too take into account of all related historical information?-- Wikireader20000 ( talk) 09:57, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Qwyrxian, more straightforward is much better. No need of going around or giving too much options (ranked) to make participants deviated, and then this will result in the RfC failed. If we respect the current rational discussion and reliable sources provided, we should be clear single "Senkaku" same as single "Diaoyu" is not in line with RSs and wiki policies and guidelines. "Pinnacle Islands" is less used in the modern time. As Westwind273 pointed out: "WP:WIAN says that sources must be modern". So it is very reasonable that the new RfC straightforwardly asks participants if use dual name and which dual name they want to choose. Much simpler. Let me draft it but please be patient. BTW, your ranked order is created by you but not supported by reliable sources.--Lvhis (talk) 00:32, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
@ Qwyrxian you worte "under the same flawed logic that got us Liancourt Rocks". There was no flawed logic in the name follows procedure (and indeed the U.S. Board on Geographic Names wanted to follow Wikipedia's lead on this name until the Koreans complained through diplomatic and political channels [2]). For example your suggested solution of placing both names in the article title has been rejected repeatedly for other article titles two reasons. The first is technical see although subpages have been disabled in article space they have not for talk pages and so archiving and searching becomes confusing see AC/DC is an article but talk pages are under talk:AC/DC where the parent page is talk:AC (if you do not understand this point then you would not be alone, it took me some time to understand what the problem was and why it is undesirable -- but it is a known technical issue against this type of page name). The second and more important one is it tends to move the debate from the title to the first name in the title, and as such the name is no more stable than before (see WP:STROKE CITY), but there are dozens of examples of where a slash solution would be used if it were accepted (most Belgium names for a start). If it could be shown that the name order predominated in most English language usage (including across national variates of English) then such a solution would be possible. In the case of Liancourt Rocks given the non neutrality of the other names "Liancourt Rocks" was the best choice (meeting both the WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NPOV).-- PBS ( talk) 16:58, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
If the dispute is over an article's title, then the procedure to use is WP:RM, not RfC. The reason for this is that the RM procedure is tailored for move requests in ways that an RfC is not. The RM procedure follows the Wikipedia Policy page for article titles and its naming conventions, RfCs tend to get sidetracked into all sorts of of other guidance that is not focused on names. The RM procedure has a review process to review if the closing administrator has followed the procedures the RfC does not. The last time an RfC was used for a really controversial move it took months for the fireworks to died down (see Talk:Men's rights movement/Archive 12#Action at WP:ANI concerning the RFC and its closure (August 2012) and follow it from there). So I strongly recommend that you use RM and not RfC for requested moves on this page. -- PBS ( talk) 16:58, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Quick comments (only minutes to spend on WP today): 1) remove all of the policy links; we expect RfC commenters to seek out policies as needed, and to have them come up in the discussion itself. 2) The intro paragraph must to be changed as it's not neutral. It is not stating the dispute, it's taking the strong position that the sources clearly show the use of a dual name. Even though I agree that the sources lean that way, we cannot make the RfC intro paragraph say that. If you want to say that, you (or anyone else) should add that in your own comments in the responses section.The RfC is not seeking to get consensus to change to a dual name. The RfC is extended our current dispute of "what should the name be" to the wider community. So, the part after sentence 1 of paragraph 1 should be replaced with something like,
A number of editors have raised the concern that, particularly in light of changing representation in sources, the community should revisit the issue of the article name. Specifically, as discussed in the talk page section above Talk:Senkaku Islands#Specific References, some editors have proposed changing this to a dual name, such as "Diaoyu/Senkaku" or "Senkaku/Diaoyu"
That would also then require changes to later parts, since, for example, there's no "list of reliable sources" to refer back to. My big message, though, is this: that RfC draft is not neutral (it pushes a specific position in the debate), and doing so would be grounds for the immediate termination of that RfC and possible arbitration-related enforcement against anyone posting it. Please note that I mean no disrespect to you, Lvhis--I totally understand why you've phrased it the way you did, and this sort of "proposal" would be acceptable in most types of writing, but not in the very specific set of rules relating to how we make RfC proposals on Wikipedia. Qwyrxian ( talk) 23:19, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
-- Ubikwit 連絡 見学/迷惑 00:37, 7 December 2013 (UTC)Despite the "rediscovery" of the Diaoyu islands by Koga in 1884, the decree by Empress Dowager Cixi in 1893 will provide the key evidence to terminate the Japanese soi-distant rediscovery theory. Therefore, all evidence suggests that the Chinese fulfilled their sovereign duty to manifest effective control of the Diaoyu islands.
"The result of this part will be decided by simple straw polls or votes." This is contrary to the RM process which explains that decisions are based on opinions expressed within the context of the the WP:AT and WP:CONSENSUS policies (see Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions and more specifically the section Determining consensus). This is yet another example of why the RM process and its rules based around interpreting WP:AT is a better way to decide a page title than using an RfC with ad-hock rule made up by those who wish to initiate an RfC. -- PBS ( talk) 23:36, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
To reflect the ongoing RM/CM as follows and to attract more participants, I am adding NPOV-Title tag on corresponding articles. This tag can be removed when the RM/CM closed.-- Lvhis ( talk) 18:19, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Wow. This is a current event and giving the current situation a dual name title is the obvious rational solution and we all know consensus would agree. So what's with the clearly bias support. Wikipedia is taking a side with this issue. Obvious and undeniable. The majority agrees. Yet somehow the encyclopedia that anyone can edit is being restricted by a minority. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.200.208.230 ( talk) 07:43, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
As this story pops up in the news over and over the western slanted bias is crystal clear. Diaoyu / Senkaku OR Senkaku / Diaoyu
Wikipedia has fallen victim to US controls and propaganda standards and willingly complies with to order to pick a side and keep the bias slanted Against the Chinese.
Trust and credibility are invalidated by the choice to take sides. 108.247.104.253 ( talk) 04:41, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Forgive my tone if it is overly passionate. In this day and age of NSA listeners their is undoubtedly an equal number of NSA writers as well as CIA, FBI, and many more government affiliated and / or sponsored writer / blogger / editor. Nobody is infallible or above scrutiny. Major companies want certain articles written about them certain ways and governments want certain articles written certain ways. .......
One idea of a suggestion might be to limit editing of the article from the disputing nations in question. In the case of the disputed Senkaku article here wiki would be limited the edit powers from IPs from the ranges of China, and Japan and USA. This would not stop the determined sponsored political editors (a wiki page should be made on that kind of editor) They would use proxies. However it would stop the masses from those nations swaying and spinning the article into ...into.. whatever is going on with this article.
Maybe if the Australians and Russians and Koreans and Taiwanese and others all had a chance to edit independent of the disputing nations disputes a better article of indisputable logical neutrality could be written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1zeroate ( talk • contribs) 04:38, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 |
The Chinese article on these islands contains the Japanese name Senkaku (尖閣) 22 times, including references in the introduction. The Japanese article on these islands only mentions the name Diaoyu (釣魚) 5 times, with no reference in the introduction. I would suggest that the Chinese part of Wikipedia is more open-minded than the Japanese part. I would also suggest that it is flawed to think of the various language versions of Wikipedia as completely separate from each other. The quixotic "English name" of the islands is an unattainable ideal. The name difference "Senkaku" and "Diaoyu" does not exist solely in English. In Japan/China it is 尖閣 vs 釣魚. All four of these characters are pronounceable in both languages, so the different naming is purely political. It is like Falkands vs Malvinas. History (and Wikipedia) are written by the winners. Bias is unavoidable. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 07:44, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Some pro-Senkaku contributors say that standard English references use Senkaku, and that previous RfC's have shown this. Is there a link to these previous RfC's? I find it difficult to easily get at the documentation that supports the Senkaku-only view. As for encyclopedias, Britannica seems to use both Senkaku and Diaoyu. See http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/158244/Dependent-States-Year-In-Review-1996/91925/Pacific Other encyclopedias simply copy the Columbia Encyclopedia article (with references), which chooses to stick with just Senkaku. Google Maps uses both Senkaku and Diaoyu. This is compared to Google Maps usage of "Liancourt" for the islands between Korea and Japan. University research papers seem to favor the dual use of Senkaku and Diaoyu. See http://international.uiowa.edu/files/international.uiowa.edu/files/file_uploads/drifte_senkaku_article_1.pdf and http://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/bfa92a47-1f5f-4c23-974c-f92e1ed27be4/The-Senkaku-Diaoyu-Island-Controversy--A-Crisis-Po.aspx and http://scar.gmu.edu/book-chapter/daioyusenkaku-dispute-identity-based-conflict-toward-sino-japan-reconciliation I have trouble seeing how the pro-Senkaku people stipulate that English language encyclopedias, maps, news and research papers all overwhelmingly confirm Senkaku. It seems that the majority of evidence now weighs in favor of joint use of Senkaku and Diaoyu. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 22:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
We've got this in the article:
The collective use of the name "Senkaku" to denote the entire group began with the advent of the controversy in the 1970s.
but I can't find this in the given source. Kendall-K1 ( talk) 23:38, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
I think it is wrong to require that sources be non-dispute-related. The fact of the matter is, if there were not a dispute, then there would not be an English-language article about these islands. These islands are uninhabited and only 7 km2 in size. You can find many island groups near both Japan and China of similar size, about which there are no English-language articles. If the dispute is the only reason for the article's existence, then it is ridiculous to stipulate that all naming resources must be non-dispute-related. The dispute itself is the only reason for the article's existence and length in the first place. Furthermore, in terms of common usage, the number of people viewing Senkaku/Diaoyu in dispute-related sources is likely to be millions of times higher than the number of people viewing obscure nautical charts used by ship captains. If we are looking for the most common English name, then we must be realistic about the most common English sources. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 06:17, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
...what would it be? I think that Pinnacle Islands is the worst choice, because the name is totally unused in any of the major works (except as a note like "called Pinnacle in English", and even that's rare). While, yes, a long time ago Wikipedia chose Liancourt Rocks as a compromise name, a lot of that was because they couldn't really find hardly any references in English at all, and thus choosing either the Korean or Japanese name seemed wholly arbitrary. In the case of these islands, however, there's been tons of press; and it seems that there has been a shift (probably, we'll need to RfC later on on the matter) towards both journalists and scholars, and maybe even other tertiary sources, towards using both names.
If that's the case (that most use both), then the "logical" choice would be Senkaku/Diaoyu or Diaoyu/Senkaku (just to clarify, I believe that I used to assert that names with slashes are not allowed, but I've found out that they are, you just have to take care with the talk pages). But how do we choose which one? The argument I'd lay out in favor of S/D is that 1) Japan still maintains de facto control of the islands, including a continuing promise from the US to intervene on Japan's behalf, and 2) Senkaku was for quite a long time the much more dominant term in English. In favor of D/S, I'd argue just alphabetical. But I'm interested in the opinion of others.
Finally, let me be very clear: it is well known that I have long been the strongest "supporter" of the Senkaku Islands name. I'm not stating with complete certainty that I accept that the names have fully shifted, enough that we should change our article (I'll want to do some searches myself). But the newest presented evidence (see the above section) does make me think that there is at least good reason to believe it may have changed, and thus the time is ripe for another community reconideration, and that I myself might even be inclined to support a dual name. But I'm not quite there yet, so please don't quote me as solidly in one "camp" or the other. Qwyrxian ( talk) 13:40, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Alright, maybe this isn't the place to pull the discussion back two centuries, but I still insist on the point that the renaming of this article should 1.follow global events and 2.go further back in time. I just can't agree that "because US government...' or "because Google search...' and then a conclusion. China had, is trying to, and will retake the Diaoyu Islands.And Westwind, if you are a American and having pretty rough times now, tell your government to back off and really stay neutral. Wikireader20000 ( talk) 15:14, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
I think it is becoming increasingly clear that the article name should be changed to either Senkaku/Diaoyu or Diaoyu/Senkaku. Choosing between the two is difficult. In the interest of making slow and conservative changes, I would suggest first changing the article name to Senkaku/Diaoyu, and then continuing the discussion on whether the order should be switched. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 19:42, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Clearly a very small minority with way too much authority is determined to maintain the bias in this article for whatever their own personal reasons are. This is not a forum. It is Wikipedia. Love how you played the RfC card. Very political and the status quo of bias is maintained. The merit and reliability of Wikipedia is damaged but the current status quo is maintained. 98.200.208.230 ( talk) 08:11, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Qwyrxian, if I get you right, Wikipedia's naming regulations are too rigid too adapt to the fact that any naming, any naming, has too take into account of all related historical information?-- Wikireader20000 ( talk) 09:57, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Qwyrxian, more straightforward is much better. No need of going around or giving too much options (ranked) to make participants deviated, and then this will result in the RfC failed. If we respect the current rational discussion and reliable sources provided, we should be clear single "Senkaku" same as single "Diaoyu" is not in line with RSs and wiki policies and guidelines. "Pinnacle Islands" is less used in the modern time. As Westwind273 pointed out: "WP:WIAN says that sources must be modern". So it is very reasonable that the new RfC straightforwardly asks participants if use dual name and which dual name they want to choose. Much simpler. Let me draft it but please be patient. BTW, your ranked order is created by you but not supported by reliable sources.--Lvhis (talk) 00:32, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
@ Qwyrxian you worte "under the same flawed logic that got us Liancourt Rocks". There was no flawed logic in the name follows procedure (and indeed the U.S. Board on Geographic Names wanted to follow Wikipedia's lead on this name until the Koreans complained through diplomatic and political channels [2]). For example your suggested solution of placing both names in the article title has been rejected repeatedly for other article titles two reasons. The first is technical see although subpages have been disabled in article space they have not for talk pages and so archiving and searching becomes confusing see AC/DC is an article but talk pages are under talk:AC/DC where the parent page is talk:AC (if you do not understand this point then you would not be alone, it took me some time to understand what the problem was and why it is undesirable -- but it is a known technical issue against this type of page name). The second and more important one is it tends to move the debate from the title to the first name in the title, and as such the name is no more stable than before (see WP:STROKE CITY), but there are dozens of examples of where a slash solution would be used if it were accepted (most Belgium names for a start). If it could be shown that the name order predominated in most English language usage (including across national variates of English) then such a solution would be possible. In the case of Liancourt Rocks given the non neutrality of the other names "Liancourt Rocks" was the best choice (meeting both the WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NPOV).-- PBS ( talk) 16:58, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
If the dispute is over an article's title, then the procedure to use is WP:RM, not RfC. The reason for this is that the RM procedure is tailored for move requests in ways that an RfC is not. The RM procedure follows the Wikipedia Policy page for article titles and its naming conventions, RfCs tend to get sidetracked into all sorts of of other guidance that is not focused on names. The RM procedure has a review process to review if the closing administrator has followed the procedures the RfC does not. The last time an RfC was used for a really controversial move it took months for the fireworks to died down (see Talk:Men's rights movement/Archive 12#Action at WP:ANI concerning the RFC and its closure (August 2012) and follow it from there). So I strongly recommend that you use RM and not RfC for requested moves on this page. -- PBS ( talk) 16:58, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Quick comments (only minutes to spend on WP today): 1) remove all of the policy links; we expect RfC commenters to seek out policies as needed, and to have them come up in the discussion itself. 2) The intro paragraph must to be changed as it's not neutral. It is not stating the dispute, it's taking the strong position that the sources clearly show the use of a dual name. Even though I agree that the sources lean that way, we cannot make the RfC intro paragraph say that. If you want to say that, you (or anyone else) should add that in your own comments in the responses section.The RfC is not seeking to get consensus to change to a dual name. The RfC is extended our current dispute of "what should the name be" to the wider community. So, the part after sentence 1 of paragraph 1 should be replaced with something like,
A number of editors have raised the concern that, particularly in light of changing representation in sources, the community should revisit the issue of the article name. Specifically, as discussed in the talk page section above Talk:Senkaku Islands#Specific References, some editors have proposed changing this to a dual name, such as "Diaoyu/Senkaku" or "Senkaku/Diaoyu"
That would also then require changes to later parts, since, for example, there's no "list of reliable sources" to refer back to. My big message, though, is this: that RfC draft is not neutral (it pushes a specific position in the debate), and doing so would be grounds for the immediate termination of that RfC and possible arbitration-related enforcement against anyone posting it. Please note that I mean no disrespect to you, Lvhis--I totally understand why you've phrased it the way you did, and this sort of "proposal" would be acceptable in most types of writing, but not in the very specific set of rules relating to how we make RfC proposals on Wikipedia. Qwyrxian ( talk) 23:19, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
-- Ubikwit 連絡 見学/迷惑 00:37, 7 December 2013 (UTC)Despite the "rediscovery" of the Diaoyu islands by Koga in 1884, the decree by Empress Dowager Cixi in 1893 will provide the key evidence to terminate the Japanese soi-distant rediscovery theory. Therefore, all evidence suggests that the Chinese fulfilled their sovereign duty to manifest effective control of the Diaoyu islands.
"The result of this part will be decided by simple straw polls or votes." This is contrary to the RM process which explains that decisions are based on opinions expressed within the context of the the WP:AT and WP:CONSENSUS policies (see Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions and more specifically the section Determining consensus). This is yet another example of why the RM process and its rules based around interpreting WP:AT is a better way to decide a page title than using an RfC with ad-hock rule made up by those who wish to initiate an RfC. -- PBS ( talk) 23:36, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
To reflect the ongoing RM/CM as follows and to attract more participants, I am adding NPOV-Title tag on corresponding articles. This tag can be removed when the RM/CM closed.-- Lvhis ( talk) 18:19, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Wow. This is a current event and giving the current situation a dual name title is the obvious rational solution and we all know consensus would agree. So what's with the clearly bias support. Wikipedia is taking a side with this issue. Obvious and undeniable. The majority agrees. Yet somehow the encyclopedia that anyone can edit is being restricted by a minority. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.200.208.230 ( talk) 07:43, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
As this story pops up in the news over and over the western slanted bias is crystal clear. Diaoyu / Senkaku OR Senkaku / Diaoyu
Wikipedia has fallen victim to US controls and propaganda standards and willingly complies with to order to pick a side and keep the bias slanted Against the Chinese.
Trust and credibility are invalidated by the choice to take sides. 108.247.104.253 ( talk) 04:41, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Forgive my tone if it is overly passionate. In this day and age of NSA listeners their is undoubtedly an equal number of NSA writers as well as CIA, FBI, and many more government affiliated and / or sponsored writer / blogger / editor. Nobody is infallible or above scrutiny. Major companies want certain articles written about them certain ways and governments want certain articles written certain ways. .......
One idea of a suggestion might be to limit editing of the article from the disputing nations in question. In the case of the disputed Senkaku article here wiki would be limited the edit powers from IPs from the ranges of China, and Japan and USA. This would not stop the determined sponsored political editors (a wiki page should be made on that kind of editor) They would use proxies. However it would stop the masses from those nations swaying and spinning the article into ...into.. whatever is going on with this article.
Maybe if the Australians and Russians and Koreans and Taiwanese and others all had a chance to edit independent of the disputing nations disputes a better article of indisputable logical neutrality could be written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1zeroate ( talk • contribs) 04:38, 15 December 2013 (UTC)