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Archive 1 |
Interesting article. But what exactly is your source on this:
Do you have anything to support that the word was originally used among homosexuals as an acronym (which may be the case today), rather than as a euphemism? -- JJay 22:19, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Sonic Mew and thanks for your response. I checked your cited source- (Crystal, David, The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language, Cambridge University Press; 2 edition, 2003). On page 134 he discusses the word “gay” but makes no mention of “good as you”. In fact this idea is examined at length on the Wikipedia Gay page (under folk etymologies), where “good as you'” is identified as a backronym (based on a fake etymology). I will therefore edit that part in your article. -- JJay 14:35, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
It may be a cultural issue, but in North America 'Punk' certainly doesn't mean someone who doesn't stand up for themselves and gets pushed around. This example should be cut or fixed.-- 142.25.33.159 23:56, 25 January 2006 (UTC) It does in certain socio-cultural North American contexts such as hip-hop, urban, and inner-city communities and among younger people. You are right that there is an omission of the more widespread use of "punk" to mean a rebellious or badly behaved (usually young male) person.
Please would editors not simply add sections on individual examples of semantic change, as the talk page suggests might happen. There few words in the Englush language (never mind others). If we are going to have examples, we should restrict them to clear examples which illustrate types of change, and we should include them within a section on the change, not separately. Controversial words like "gay" are more likely to be subjects of edit wars and/or vandalisation, so let's stick to things like notorious.-- Nema Fakei 11:21, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I decided to rv the page partly because the change of Aeusoes removed the distinctions between 2nd level headings and 3rd level headings, thus making two headings redundant (one of which empty). I'm also not convinced about making 'gay' a pejoration: it could equally be a euphemism or just an extension. Additionally, since homosexuality is received very differently across the English-speaking world, the effects on how the word is used varies. Encyclopaedic examples need to be clear-cut, to help users distinguish between different types of semantic change.-- Nema Fakei 13:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Is there a linguistic term for a the phenomenon of a word losing linguistic intensity (such as "spill", which once meant "to destroy"?) Does the opposite ever occur? The Jade Knight 05:27, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the term is "weakening," and it is much more common than the opposite phenomenon, "strengthening." An example of strengthening is the word "drown" which originally meant something along the lines of "to drink," or "to get wet" according to C.M. Millward's A Biography of the English Language.
The page has Meillet identify 3 causes of semantic change, after which there are only two bullet points. Can anyone clarify Meillet's position in this article? Dsp13 00:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
User:JdeJ has accused me of vandalism and reverted my contribution. He has written on me here. I would like to repeat my reply here.
I am not going to change the article again myself, but hope that somebody else is convinced of my viewpoint. - Sinatra 14:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
This policy does not prohibit editors with specialist knowledge from adding their knowledge to Wikipedia, but it does prohibit them from drawing on their personal knowledge without citing their sources. If an editor has published the results of their research in a reliable publication, they may cite that source while writing in the third person and complying with our NPOV policy. See also Wikipedia's guidelines on conflict of interest
I've finally completed a revised version of this article, but would like to have it commented before I replace the current version. Please add your comments here. Thanks. - Sinatra 15:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
what class if any for this semantic reversal?-- 86.132.116.42 23:19, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
It belongs to "Amelioration" (which is from French "Ameliorer" means "to improve") -- because the word "bad" originally has a negative connotation, but is now being used to mean "good", other examples inculdes "wicked" (evil→superb), and pretty (cunning and sly→attractive). I dont think this is on the article, so I think I might add this into the article. The opposite of amelioration is pejoration. Ingramhk ( talk) 06:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Does no one find this article a bit confusing to read? I personally think that under "Types of semantic change", there should just be one list, and not an explanation of which scholars think if something should be classed as a semantic change; and maybe have another section later to explain what the scholars think. I think this will make the article a lot easier to read for people who have no previous ideas about semantic change. Ingramhk ( talk) 06:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that Semantic progression is pretty much the same topic as this article, so I think a merge would be appropriate. The Almighty Google says that "semantic change" is the most common term ( Semantic progression, 1,420, Semantic change, 77,300, Semantic shift, 27,100), so this seems like the logical destination. - kotra ( talk) 00:34, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
This section seems a bit unfortunate to me because (1) inverted commas and italics are not used consistently, (2) it isn't clear why these examples are given such a prominent place, and (3) it destroys the general structure of the article. Why not add the examples at the respective points under the section "Types of semantic change"? -- Sinatra ( talk) 15:21, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
The lead says, "Semantic change is one of three major processes to find a designation for a concept." Without the other two - much less a source stating that there are exactly three ways to do this - this sentence is fairly pointless. Fishal ( talk) 00:22, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Isn't hyperbole the opposite of what is listed here? Crowley and Bowern (An Introduction to Historical Linguistics, 4th edition, Oxford University Press, 2010, pp. 203) say "an originally strong connotation of a word is lost because of constant use." They give the example of Latin "extonare" (strike with thunder), become French "etonner" (surprise). It is interesting the litotes, which is opposite to hyperbole uses the same example. Neillhowell ( talk) 02:12, 29 October 2010 (UTC)Neil
I noticed people complaining about the examples,but really this article should have tons of examples. it doesnt even link with a "see also" to another page that has a list of specific examples right now. that needs to be changed. most people coming to this page are probably coming to it to learn about specific examples, not just about the phenomenon itself. also it seems like new words are being changed every few years, and a current exhautive list would be very useful here. for example, Im not happy about it at all, but the younger generation has decided to start using the word "sick" to mean(to them) "really cool". I for one think this is a stupid and sick use of the word sick, but where would one go to discover this information if they didn't already know about it? I think this article would be the best place to contain that type of specific information on specific words and list many examples, or at least a link to them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gawdsmak ( talk • contribs) 16:24, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Interesting article. But what exactly is your source on this:
Do you have anything to support that the word was originally used among homosexuals as an acronym (which may be the case today), rather than as a euphemism? -- JJay 22:19, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Sonic Mew and thanks for your response. I checked your cited source- (Crystal, David, The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language, Cambridge University Press; 2 edition, 2003). On page 134 he discusses the word “gay” but makes no mention of “good as you”. In fact this idea is examined at length on the Wikipedia Gay page (under folk etymologies), where “good as you'” is identified as a backronym (based on a fake etymology). I will therefore edit that part in your article. -- JJay 14:35, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
It may be a cultural issue, but in North America 'Punk' certainly doesn't mean someone who doesn't stand up for themselves and gets pushed around. This example should be cut or fixed.-- 142.25.33.159 23:56, 25 January 2006 (UTC) It does in certain socio-cultural North American contexts such as hip-hop, urban, and inner-city communities and among younger people. You are right that there is an omission of the more widespread use of "punk" to mean a rebellious or badly behaved (usually young male) person.
Please would editors not simply add sections on individual examples of semantic change, as the talk page suggests might happen. There few words in the Englush language (never mind others). If we are going to have examples, we should restrict them to clear examples which illustrate types of change, and we should include them within a section on the change, not separately. Controversial words like "gay" are more likely to be subjects of edit wars and/or vandalisation, so let's stick to things like notorious.-- Nema Fakei 11:21, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I decided to rv the page partly because the change of Aeusoes removed the distinctions between 2nd level headings and 3rd level headings, thus making two headings redundant (one of which empty). I'm also not convinced about making 'gay' a pejoration: it could equally be a euphemism or just an extension. Additionally, since homosexuality is received very differently across the English-speaking world, the effects on how the word is used varies. Encyclopaedic examples need to be clear-cut, to help users distinguish between different types of semantic change.-- Nema Fakei 13:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Is there a linguistic term for a the phenomenon of a word losing linguistic intensity (such as "spill", which once meant "to destroy"?) Does the opposite ever occur? The Jade Knight 05:27, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the term is "weakening," and it is much more common than the opposite phenomenon, "strengthening." An example of strengthening is the word "drown" which originally meant something along the lines of "to drink," or "to get wet" according to C.M. Millward's A Biography of the English Language.
The page has Meillet identify 3 causes of semantic change, after which there are only two bullet points. Can anyone clarify Meillet's position in this article? Dsp13 00:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
User:JdeJ has accused me of vandalism and reverted my contribution. He has written on me here. I would like to repeat my reply here.
I am not going to change the article again myself, but hope that somebody else is convinced of my viewpoint. - Sinatra 14:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
This policy does not prohibit editors with specialist knowledge from adding their knowledge to Wikipedia, but it does prohibit them from drawing on their personal knowledge without citing their sources. If an editor has published the results of their research in a reliable publication, they may cite that source while writing in the third person and complying with our NPOV policy. See also Wikipedia's guidelines on conflict of interest
I've finally completed a revised version of this article, but would like to have it commented before I replace the current version. Please add your comments here. Thanks. - Sinatra 15:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
what class if any for this semantic reversal?-- 86.132.116.42 23:19, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
It belongs to "Amelioration" (which is from French "Ameliorer" means "to improve") -- because the word "bad" originally has a negative connotation, but is now being used to mean "good", other examples inculdes "wicked" (evil→superb), and pretty (cunning and sly→attractive). I dont think this is on the article, so I think I might add this into the article. The opposite of amelioration is pejoration. Ingramhk ( talk) 06:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Does no one find this article a bit confusing to read? I personally think that under "Types of semantic change", there should just be one list, and not an explanation of which scholars think if something should be classed as a semantic change; and maybe have another section later to explain what the scholars think. I think this will make the article a lot easier to read for people who have no previous ideas about semantic change. Ingramhk ( talk) 06:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that Semantic progression is pretty much the same topic as this article, so I think a merge would be appropriate. The Almighty Google says that "semantic change" is the most common term ( Semantic progression, 1,420, Semantic change, 77,300, Semantic shift, 27,100), so this seems like the logical destination. - kotra ( talk) 00:34, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
This section seems a bit unfortunate to me because (1) inverted commas and italics are not used consistently, (2) it isn't clear why these examples are given such a prominent place, and (3) it destroys the general structure of the article. Why not add the examples at the respective points under the section "Types of semantic change"? -- Sinatra ( talk) 15:21, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
The lead says, "Semantic change is one of three major processes to find a designation for a concept." Without the other two - much less a source stating that there are exactly three ways to do this - this sentence is fairly pointless. Fishal ( talk) 00:22, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Isn't hyperbole the opposite of what is listed here? Crowley and Bowern (An Introduction to Historical Linguistics, 4th edition, Oxford University Press, 2010, pp. 203) say "an originally strong connotation of a word is lost because of constant use." They give the example of Latin "extonare" (strike with thunder), become French "etonner" (surprise). It is interesting the litotes, which is opposite to hyperbole uses the same example. Neillhowell ( talk) 02:12, 29 October 2010 (UTC)Neil
I noticed people complaining about the examples,but really this article should have tons of examples. it doesnt even link with a "see also" to another page that has a list of specific examples right now. that needs to be changed. most people coming to this page are probably coming to it to learn about specific examples, not just about the phenomenon itself. also it seems like new words are being changed every few years, and a current exhautive list would be very useful here. for example, Im not happy about it at all, but the younger generation has decided to start using the word "sick" to mean(to them) "really cool". I for one think this is a stupid and sick use of the word sick, but where would one go to discover this information if they didn't already know about it? I think this article would be the best place to contain that type of specific information on specific words and list many examples, or at least a link to them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gawdsmak ( talk • contribs) 16:24, 24 January 2012 (UTC)