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The current photo labelled "Sunset off Selsey Bill point" is a lovely picture, but it seems to have been taken at West Sands (one of the barriers to protect the beach) rather than Selsey Bill. Apart from just generally not being the Bill, some definite evidence:
1) The sun is setting behind the Isle of Wight, which wouldn't be in that position if you were looking at the Bill itself from that angle. 2) Mostly sandy beach, rather than the shingle at the Bill. 3) There's no barrier made of boulders at the Bill. 4) No groyne marker - the Bill has one, with two triangles to mark the point.
Here's a photo of the groyne markers at the Bill point, for illustrative purposes as I don't know if it's suitable or available to use:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2397917
Or on Google Street View here:
I don't have a better photo to suggest at the moment though, I'm afraid. I'll see if I can find one later, but I'm not in the area to take one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.36.32.118 ( talk) 15:48, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
It seems pointless to have separate articles for the Manhood Peninsula and Selsey Bill which is part of it. I propose they be merged with Selsey Bill becoming a redirect.-- Charles ( talk) 10:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I see no proposal to merge Selsey with the Manhood, but Selsey Bill is part of Selsey. The Parish of Selsey contains Church Norton and most of Pagham Harbour. I think that these should al be merged into one Selsey page, however that maybe unwieldy to merge into one Manhood Peninsula page! Wilfridselsey ( talk) 14:41, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
I have given this more thought. I think that the Manhood article should contain general information just about the Manhood, eg: origin of name, it's history etc. Then it should list all the towns, villages, hamlets on the Manhood. Like we do with county pages for example. Selsey Bill should be merged with the Selsey page, a paragraph or two could highlight it's importance to shipping. But as the Bill is part of Selsey seems silly to have it as separate as there is obviously going to be a lot of duplication Wilfridselsey ( talk) 10:34, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Selsey Bill is not a seperate entity to Selsey it is a part of Selsey and is a relatively new name, first seen on Philip Overtons map of Sussex, in 1740. Selsey Bill consists of soft sands, sandy clays etc. it is the pointy bit of the peninsular, in other words the beach. The name Selsey Bill is usually interchangeable with Selsey. Not only is there no separate administration for Selsey Bill it does not physically exist on land. There is no sign saying welcome to Selsey Bill. There is a pub at the point called the Selsey Bill and there is a house in the area called Bill House but they are both next to the pointy bit! It is purely a point on the chart for maritime navigation. I think that we should remove the history section as it is really about Selsey and in any case happened before there was a coastal area known as Selsey Bill. Selsey Bill is a maritime construct but has very little reference to the sea on the Selsey Bill page. I would prefer Selsey Bill to be merged with Selsey, as geographically they are the same. I would not want it merged with the Manhood as that would be completely confusing. I suggest that it should be similar to the entry for Portland Bill in other words concentrate on the maritime stuff only, and remove the information more appropriate to the Selsey page. Wilfridselsey ( talk) 23:04, 21 December 2009 (UTC) Strong Oppose - Selsey Bill is marked on OS maps; Manhood Peninsula isn't. It also has more than double the ghits. If any merge is appropriate it's the other way. Would tend to agree that there needs to be some kind of rationalisation between the articles on Selsey and here though. Blue Square Thing ( talk) 20:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Selsey Bill is also on the maritime charts for the area!
The problem for me is that Selsey Bill is synonymous with Selsey. People will say they come from or are going to Selsey Bill when they actually mean Selsey. Heron-Allen wrote a book a about the local church at Selsey Bill when the church is physically in Selsey High Street.
Within the town, they talk about "The Bill" meaning a specific area of coastline. So if they said they lived near the Bill you would know what they were talking about. On land what is Selsey as opposed to Selsey Bill is very blurred. However from a maritime point of view Selsey Bill is very specific. Any sailor would know about Selsey Bill, however the Manhood would be somewhat of a mystery, and probably irrelevant.
If we are going to keep Selsey Bill as a seperate entity I would propose that we concentrate on it from a nautical point of view. I think that the introduction does that already. Scrap the existing history section as it is probably more appropriate to Selsey (it is inevitable that there will be an element of crossover). Concentrate on history specific to the Bill instead eg: as far as I know it was first mentioned Philip Overton's map of Sussex in 1740. There was some suggestion that it was so called in imitation of Portland Bill etc..
Perhaps in the popular references section we could include something of the discussion we have here eg:Selsey Bill being synonymous with Selsey. Wilfridselsey ( talk) 12:27, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the merge template from the Manhood Peninsula article, as we seem to agree that Selsey Bill should 'not be merged with it! The charter that created the Manhood predates the existence of Selsey Bill in anycase. Also the Henry VIII charter (which essentially copies the original Anglo Saxon charters) defines the boundary of the Manhood as the coastline, so one could say that technically Selsey Bill is not part of the Manhood anyway as it lies on or beyond the coastline!! Of course the coastline was a mile or so further south when the original charter was produced, but that's another story. Wilfridselsey ( talk) 15:49, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
I have updated the article in line with the discussion here. The main points being:
Also tidied things up a bit and reorganised notes/ references. Wilfridselsey ( talk) 11:14, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
The Mulberry artificial harbors used for the Normandy landings were assembled off Selsey Bill.
The best account is probably Edward Ellsberg's "The Far Shore". jdege ( talk) 19:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Ellsberg talks about Selsey Bill when he means Selsey. As discussed in the Selsey Bill article, Selsey Bill is synonymous with the town of Selsey. Everyone does it, particularly mariners as Selsey Bill is an important point on naval charts. However, the population of Selsey Bill is zero, there is no town council called Selsey Bill. Selsey Bill is the point at the end of Selsey and thus is part of Selsey. The Selsey area was important for the construction of the Mulberry Harbours. Selsey was one of two areas for the storage of the caissons. These were submerged off Pagham Harbour (an area of sea between Selsey and Pagham).
The area off Selsey Bill was used as assembly point, ie: this is where all the various components, that had been made all over Britain, including the caissons were mustered before being towed to France. Selsey Bill is often used as a muster point both for sea and air craft, so this is not particularly unusual. I have updated the article to reflect this. Wilfridselsey ( talk) 08:52, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
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The current photo labelled "Sunset off Selsey Bill point" is a lovely picture, but it seems to have been taken at West Sands (one of the barriers to protect the beach) rather than Selsey Bill. Apart from just generally not being the Bill, some definite evidence:
1) The sun is setting behind the Isle of Wight, which wouldn't be in that position if you were looking at the Bill itself from that angle. 2) Mostly sandy beach, rather than the shingle at the Bill. 3) There's no barrier made of boulders at the Bill. 4) No groyne marker - the Bill has one, with two triangles to mark the point.
Here's a photo of the groyne markers at the Bill point, for illustrative purposes as I don't know if it's suitable or available to use:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2397917
Or on Google Street View here:
I don't have a better photo to suggest at the moment though, I'm afraid. I'll see if I can find one later, but I'm not in the area to take one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.36.32.118 ( talk) 15:48, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
It seems pointless to have separate articles for the Manhood Peninsula and Selsey Bill which is part of it. I propose they be merged with Selsey Bill becoming a redirect.-- Charles ( talk) 10:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I see no proposal to merge Selsey with the Manhood, but Selsey Bill is part of Selsey. The Parish of Selsey contains Church Norton and most of Pagham Harbour. I think that these should al be merged into one Selsey page, however that maybe unwieldy to merge into one Manhood Peninsula page! Wilfridselsey ( talk) 14:41, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
I have given this more thought. I think that the Manhood article should contain general information just about the Manhood, eg: origin of name, it's history etc. Then it should list all the towns, villages, hamlets on the Manhood. Like we do with county pages for example. Selsey Bill should be merged with the Selsey page, a paragraph or two could highlight it's importance to shipping. But as the Bill is part of Selsey seems silly to have it as separate as there is obviously going to be a lot of duplication Wilfridselsey ( talk) 10:34, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Selsey Bill is not a seperate entity to Selsey it is a part of Selsey and is a relatively new name, first seen on Philip Overtons map of Sussex, in 1740. Selsey Bill consists of soft sands, sandy clays etc. it is the pointy bit of the peninsular, in other words the beach. The name Selsey Bill is usually interchangeable with Selsey. Not only is there no separate administration for Selsey Bill it does not physically exist on land. There is no sign saying welcome to Selsey Bill. There is a pub at the point called the Selsey Bill and there is a house in the area called Bill House but they are both next to the pointy bit! It is purely a point on the chart for maritime navigation. I think that we should remove the history section as it is really about Selsey and in any case happened before there was a coastal area known as Selsey Bill. Selsey Bill is a maritime construct but has very little reference to the sea on the Selsey Bill page. I would prefer Selsey Bill to be merged with Selsey, as geographically they are the same. I would not want it merged with the Manhood as that would be completely confusing. I suggest that it should be similar to the entry for Portland Bill in other words concentrate on the maritime stuff only, and remove the information more appropriate to the Selsey page. Wilfridselsey ( talk) 23:04, 21 December 2009 (UTC) Strong Oppose - Selsey Bill is marked on OS maps; Manhood Peninsula isn't. It also has more than double the ghits. If any merge is appropriate it's the other way. Would tend to agree that there needs to be some kind of rationalisation between the articles on Selsey and here though. Blue Square Thing ( talk) 20:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC) Selsey Bill is also on the maritime charts for the area!
The problem for me is that Selsey Bill is synonymous with Selsey. People will say they come from or are going to Selsey Bill when they actually mean Selsey. Heron-Allen wrote a book a about the local church at Selsey Bill when the church is physically in Selsey High Street.
Within the town, they talk about "The Bill" meaning a specific area of coastline. So if they said they lived near the Bill you would know what they were talking about. On land what is Selsey as opposed to Selsey Bill is very blurred. However from a maritime point of view Selsey Bill is very specific. Any sailor would know about Selsey Bill, however the Manhood would be somewhat of a mystery, and probably irrelevant.
If we are going to keep Selsey Bill as a seperate entity I would propose that we concentrate on it from a nautical point of view. I think that the introduction does that already. Scrap the existing history section as it is probably more appropriate to Selsey (it is inevitable that there will be an element of crossover). Concentrate on history specific to the Bill instead eg: as far as I know it was first mentioned Philip Overton's map of Sussex in 1740. There was some suggestion that it was so called in imitation of Portland Bill etc..
Perhaps in the popular references section we could include something of the discussion we have here eg:Selsey Bill being synonymous with Selsey. Wilfridselsey ( talk) 12:27, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the merge template from the Manhood Peninsula article, as we seem to agree that Selsey Bill should 'not be merged with it! The charter that created the Manhood predates the existence of Selsey Bill in anycase. Also the Henry VIII charter (which essentially copies the original Anglo Saxon charters) defines the boundary of the Manhood as the coastline, so one could say that technically Selsey Bill is not part of the Manhood anyway as it lies on or beyond the coastline!! Of course the coastline was a mile or so further south when the original charter was produced, but that's another story. Wilfridselsey ( talk) 15:49, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
I have updated the article in line with the discussion here. The main points being:
Also tidied things up a bit and reorganised notes/ references. Wilfridselsey ( talk) 11:14, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
The Mulberry artificial harbors used for the Normandy landings were assembled off Selsey Bill.
The best account is probably Edward Ellsberg's "The Far Shore". jdege ( talk) 19:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Ellsberg talks about Selsey Bill when he means Selsey. As discussed in the Selsey Bill article, Selsey Bill is synonymous with the town of Selsey. Everyone does it, particularly mariners as Selsey Bill is an important point on naval charts. However, the population of Selsey Bill is zero, there is no town council called Selsey Bill. Selsey Bill is the point at the end of Selsey and thus is part of Selsey. The Selsey area was important for the construction of the Mulberry Harbours. Selsey was one of two areas for the storage of the caissons. These were submerged off Pagham Harbour (an area of sea between Selsey and Pagham).
The area off Selsey Bill was used as assembly point, ie: this is where all the various components, that had been made all over Britain, including the caissons were mustered before being towed to France. Selsey Bill is often used as a muster point both for sea and air craft, so this is not particularly unusual. I have updated the article to reflect this. Wilfridselsey ( talk) 08:52, 24 June 2024 (UTC)